polytheism

[raghu]

 

Polytheism is not recognizing the Supreme Lord Who rules over the demigods and assuming these demigods are highest.

 

It looks like we've gone back to using non-standard meanings of words.

[cbrahma]

 

"demigods qualifies as polytheism?"

 

If not, so then who are the freaking Gods of "Polytheism"?

 

What are 'we' talking about?

Who's on First? You don't know is on second?

There are many pantheons in many cultures - the Greco-Roman pantheon we are mostly familiar with - Aphrodite, Ares, Zeus, Hermes ... to name a few.

To some extent most pantheistic religions like those of Mezo-America are polytheistic, since they honor gods of every natural object - the Sun, the Moon, but no singular God, to speak of. Zeus, BTW is not analogous to Krsna, because the other gods in the Greek pantheon do not emanate from Zeus. In fact their geneology is often vague or contradictory.

[raghu]

 

It's debatable whether the presence of demigods qualifies as polytheism. After all monotheists recognize other types of supernatural beings besides God, such as angels. Not sure what the Birthday greetings are all about.

 

However, angels don't receive worship in those traditions, and that is the crucial difference. Assuming you are using standard English definitions of the words "polytheism" and "monotheism."

[theist]

 

f I may adapt a verse from the Gita (Bg2.29):

Some look on the soul [the Demigods] as amazing,

some describe him [the Demigods] as amazing,

and some hear of him [the Demigods] as amazing,

while others,

even after hearing about him [the Demigods],

cannot understand him [the Demigods] at all.

 

You may NOT. You have murdered that sloka.

[shvu]

 

I have no problems saying Hinduism is polytheistic.

 

I have a problem because some sections of Hinduism are monotheistic too. So the usage of either of the two on Hinduism is incomplete.

 

Cheers

[Dark Warrior]

 

Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.

 

That verse excludes Shiva, Brahma, Agni, Vayu, etc. The speaker of that verse is Sri Krishna Paramatma, who is Vishnu Himself.

 

Now, Hare Christnas unfortunately include Vishnu and His forms such as Rama, Narasimha, Trivikrama in that list. And calling Vishnu a demigod is blasphemous, according to Vaishnavism.

 

As for Srila Prabhupada, he had bhakti. He was not an ordinary person. So, his mistakes can be overlooked by the fact that he had some special favor of the Lord.

 

His disciples are not on the same level as him, and hence, need to improve their jnana.

[Avinash]

 

Some look on the soul [the Demigods] as amazing,

 

some describe him [the Demigods] as amazing,

and some hear of him [the Demigods] as amazing,

while others,

even after hearing about him [the Demigods],

cannot understand him [the Demigods] at all.

 

Are you preaching your own Bhagavad Gita?

[cbrahma]

 

 

That verse excludes Shiva, Brahma, Agni, Vayu, etc. The speaker of that verse is Sri Krishna Paramatma, who is Vishnu Himself.

 

Now, Hare Christnas unfortunately include Vishnu and His forms such as Rama, Narasimha, Trivikrama in that list. And calling Vishnu a demigod is blasphemous, according to Vaishnavism.

 

As for Srila Prabhupada, he had bhakti. He was not an ordinary person. So, his mistakes can be overlooked by the fact that he had some special favor of the Lord.

 

His disciples are not on the same level as him, and hence, need to improve their jnana.

quite a speculation you have going there

[cbrahma]

 

I have a problem because some sections of Hinduism are monotheistic too. So the usage of either of the two on Hinduism is incomplete.

 

Cheers

You said the terms didn't apply.

[bhaktajan]

 

You may NOT. You have murdered that sloka.

 

I have "murdered"?

 

I have "murdered" a person with a soul?

 

I have defeated your lethargy to speak straightfowardly & plainly.

 

Imaginary Godheads of abhoriginal Myths amongst the formative tribes along the middle-eastern regions of antiquity do not compare to the Patheon of the Family Tree of the personalities of The Srimad Bhagavatam are the standard of measurement for discussions on "pantheism".

.................................................................................

Avinash,

When you are old enough you will learn that you will be expected to write your own commentary on the Bhagavad-gita--I myself, intend to borrow heavily from myown authorities on the subject--maybe your authorities will influence you too as how to have insights all on your own.

 

Please see MY posting: Krishna's "Aham(s)" posted under the Vedic Verses Threads. There you will see how Krishna states how we may "remember his presence" while we journey through-out all the world.

 

I mave adapded a verse from the Gita [as all swami's are expected to--this is a 'commentary' that I am revealing that is part and parcel of this verse in relation to this thread's topic]:

 

Some look on the soul [Family Tree of the personalities of The Srimad Bhagavatam] as amazing,

some describe him [Family Tree of the personalities of The Srimad Bhagavatam] as amazing, and some hear of him [Family Tree of the personalities of The Srimad Bhagavatam] as amazing,

while others,

even after hearing about him [Family Tree of the personalities of The Srimad Bhagavatam],

cannot understand him [Family Tree of the personalities of The Srimad Bhagavatam] at all.

 

The sloka is quoted in it's entirety--no ommisions!

I include my editorial remarks enclosed in Brackets--this is how educated and learned scholarly letters are writ!

Go pick on some one your own size. With hold your response if you suspect that your only wildly speculating when dealing with me, phaleeze! Your

disingenuousness is as obvious as your penchant for lack of eruditeness.

.................................................................................

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by theist

Polytheism is not recognizing the Supreme Lord Who rules over the demigods and assuming these demigods are highest.

 

 

 

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Hey Raghu,

It looks like we've gone back to using non-standard meanings of words.

I speak perfect english. And Theist is correct [and you know it to be so] --lest you are an atheist-minister for propaganda, for give me in disturbing your mind.

"Polytheism is not recognizing the KRISHNA Who rules over the demigods."

 

.................................................................................

Please feel free to criticize my postings if you truely have some insight(s).

Otherwise, I would have to read between your lines and speculate as to what you think you really want to say. Be sincere, coherent, concise, cogent, lucid and relevant; also, being intellectually correct is prefered on the first go-around, but, it's OK to debate [oops, it wouldn't hurt if you researched the game rules for extemporaneous speech].

 

...........................................................................................

 

here is an example of my haughtiness:

Complain about the self-involved Misanthropes by these posters:

Thread: THANK YOU -- Godseed post #33

Thread: Recognition of Gay Marriage in Austria -- Amlesh post #33

[theist]

bhaktajan prabhu. I beg you with folded hands and bowed head please do not play with Gita verses like that.

[bhaktajan]

 

bhaktajan prabhu. I beg you with folded hands and bowed head please do not play with Gita verses like that.

 

Mind your horses.

Your alluding to something you know is not relavent here to me.

 

I have not changed anything--and I understand what you think you want me to do.

 

There is no need to ask me such a thing, because the topic is 'Polytheism' --you are digressing and you know it.

 

The application of philosophcal maxims are the right of the common people.

I have observed all the rules & customs of literary editorship.

 

"Always look at the bright side of life, ta-da da-da-da-da tad-da . . . "

from The Life of Brain --by Monty Phython

[cbrahma]

You are an endless source of much needed humor on this forum. (I am not laughing at you but with you).

[Beggar]

 

 

"Always look at the bright side of life, ta-da da-da-da-da tad-da . . . "

from The Life of Brain --by Monty Phython

 

 

 

 

Wir haben unsere Weisen des Beschäftigens Leute, die nicht Sachen ernsthaft genug nehmen.

 

 

[Avinash]

Bhaktajan,

First you substituted demigods in place of soul. Next you substitutedFamily Tree of the personalities of The Srimad Bhagavatam. What next? If you can do this, then I can also do the following substitution: -

 

Some look on the soul [software developed by me] as amazing,

some describe him [software developed by me] as amazing, and some hear of him [software developed by me] as amazing,

while others,

even after hearing about him [software developed by me],

cannot understand him [software developed by me] at all.

 

So, you agree that the above is correct?

[theist]

Good one Avinash. Gita verses are not our toys boys and girls.

[bija]

Some look on him [how he could make 20 plates of prasadam from 3 veggies] as amazing,

some describe him [leaving india with $7, founding a worldwide movement that even George joined, then heading back to india with the same $7] as amazing, and some hear of him [as a kind and gentle soul] as amazing,

while others,

even after hearing about him [disregard him as an old man who charmed some hippies],

cannot understand him [as the friend of the fallen] at all!!!

[Avinash]

If Krishna used the word soul, this means that He meant soul. No point in putting some other word or phrase.

[bhaktajan]

 

Some look on him <?xml:namespace prefix = o />

[how he could make

20 plates of prasadam from 3 veggies]

as amazing,

Some describe him

[leaving India with $7,

founding a worldwide movement

that even George Harrison joined,

then heading back to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<st1:place w:st=" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">india</st1:place></st1:country-region>

with the same $7]

as amazing,

And some hear of him

[as a kind and gentle soul]

as amazing,

while others,

even after hearing about him

[disregard him as an old man

who charmed some hippies],

cannot understand him

[as the friend of the fallen]

at all!!!

[/quote]

[bhaktajan]

 

Bhaktajan,

First you substituted demigods in place of soul. Next you substitutedFamily Tree of the personalities of The Srimad Bhagavatam. What next? If you can do this, then I can also do the following substitution: -

 

Some look on the soul [software developed by me] as amazing,

some describe him [software developed by me] as amazing, and some hear of him [software developed by me] as amazing,

while others,

even after hearing about him [software developed by me],

cannot understand him [software developed by me] at all.

 

So, you agree that the above is correct?

 

Who does "[software developed by me]" equate to the majestic mercy of the Souls' existence.

 

I present the first 5 custom-made Lessons for you:

In the Bhagavad-gita Krishna explains five Topics, ergo, my choice of topics for your lesson syllabus:

Lesson #1: Karma

Lesson #2: Kala

Lesson #3: Prakriti

Lesson #4: Jiva

Lesson #5: Isvara

 

Your assigment is to post a seperate posting for each topic.

You may only use A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami's Srimad Bhagavad-gita as-it-is as an "Open-book" resource.

Please cite the verse number and/or the Purport that you will be summarizing/commenting on/expanding upon.

Please take your time researching each topic.

 

I shall be scoring your work solely on the "A.M.R.I.T.A" scoring system, also know as the T.N.P "Total nectar Prabhu" response --so aim for that enlivening response we all know from those times when we had obtained a full plate of Maha-prasadam; or equal.

 

My closing comments:

I suggest, as per the your above posts, that you begin with "Lesson #4: Jiva" --Remember that you're not the only jiva:

 

There are the relatives of Arjuna.

There are the court personalities back at the palace and back at the cow-herd-rancheros.

There are the living entities in samsara.

There are the 3 types of yogis.

There are the the pitris and soldiers on the field which Arjuna did not seek to slay, ie: Duryodhana .

And there are the Demigods.

Did I omit any aspect of the topic "Jiva" as Krishna spoke which Srila Prabhupada enlightened us to?

Well maybe, I should include here Super-soul/Paramatma and Bhagavan, and, there are the Krishna's AHAMS of splendor, ie: I within the heart provide intelligence and memory [i'm paraphrasing] . . .

 

I'm sorry but now I must attend to my alloted dharma elsewhere.

 

respectfully yours for sparring practice in Krishna's service,

Bhaktajan

 

PS:

This weeks Bonus Questions:

Which of the above five topicas is eternal and which are material?

How does your own(the jiva-atma's) inspiration to work ie: "to develop software" agree with the nature of the your soul's existence/the existence of other souls?

 

PSS: I do agree that it is lamentable that spiritual maxims are borrowed and inverted by Madison Ave advertisers to sell sundry articles--but:

1) they are not admitting to plagerizing nor re-issuing Scriptual texts "as they are not" [vs. "as-it-is"].

2) The use of unknowingly invoking The Supreme Personality of Godhead in mundane [karmi] culture is widespread. IE: all love songs that express "yearning" are invocations to the "Original-beloved" but to the materialist, the presence of Krishna in all "yo yo, yam yam's" is not apparent. Thus, the 10th Canto of the Gita enumerates where to find the apex of God's oppulence in the material world.

3) Maybe it is better said [and/or a better goal top aspire for]: "Of software developers, know that Avinash's inspiration and joy is Krishna's approval" --Kinda sentimental, no?

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Gita verses are not our toys boys and girls.

Sanjaya [Lincoln Logs] said to Dhritarastra [barbie], "Bhagavan Krishna having spoken thus to Arjuna [Cabbage-Patch Kid], displayed His real four-armed form and at last showed His two-armed form, thus encouraging the fearful Arjuna [Cabbage-Patch Kid]."

Woops.

[realist]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0><CENTER>Chapter 7. Knowledge of the Absolute</CENTER>

 

TEXT 23

antavat tu phalam tesam

tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam

devan deva-yajo yanti

mad-bhakta yanti mam api

SYNONYMS

 

anta-vat tu--limited and temporary; phalam--fruits; tesam--their; tat--that; bhavati--becomes; alpa-medhasam--of those of small intelligence; devan--demigods' planets; deva-yajah--worshipers of demigods; yanti--achieve; mat--My; bhaktah--devotees; yanti--attain; mam--to Me; api--surely.

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> There is only one Supreme cause of all causes Krishna. In Vaikuntha He expands Himself as unlimited Vishnu's.

 

For the creation of the mahat-tattva He expands Himself as Maha Vishnu, then expands again into Garbodaksya Vishnu where Lord Brahma manifests as a post filled by a jiva tattva.

 

Also Lord Shiva appears and is also an expansion of Vishnu, as Vishnu tattva all put in place originally by Krishna but mananged by Maha-Vishnu and His expansions of Mayadevi and Shiva

 

The rest of the demigods are lead by Brahma and are jiva-tattva

 

There are 33 million demigods governing the mahat-tattva or material creation, all are jiva-tatta empowered with a paricular duty a government minister governing a country,all workng under the President.

 

Maha-Vishnu's creation is therfor autocratic, there is no such thing as democrazy on the level of the demigods in the matrial creation or for that matter, the Vaikunthas as well.

[cbrahma]

Yes that pretty much settles the matter.