Why Vaishnava & Vaishnav Gods Targeted ?

[AncientMariner]

 

Anyway, as long as it was fun for all the participants

 

I have a question for you. All these days gone and I was never aware of the Gaudiya position that chanting the Hare Krishna mantra at the time of death is sufficient to end reincarnation (I am not being sarcastic).

 

Can you point me to some material online which explains this in more detail? I am curious to see how a case is made to lead to this conclusion as I am not aware of any other Gita interpretation that makes it possible to be liberated in one lifetime.

 

And also if we have to explore this more, I suggest another thread as this one has outlived its usefulness.

 

Thanks

 

 

I read it in Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita and his version of Srimad Bhagavatam which are available at www.vedebase.net I believe. My understanding of Caitanya Mahaprabhu is that he gave the hare krishna mantra as a special mercy to the fallen people of the Kali-yuga to make it simple to overcome the ill effects of the age.

[Svarupa]

 

Man, I really hate to see this controversy over Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers come up again and again. Krishna may not reveal Himself to all individuals through the same via medium. That is the mistake most Christians make when they say Jesus only. It is bogus interpretation of his teaching. Many of Srila Prabhupada's disciples and followers make the same mistake.

 

A similar mistake is made by disciples of Srila Prabhupada who have taken siksa from one of his Godbrothers and therefore concludes that everyone should also do likewise.

 

If Krishna wants someone to hear from BR Sridhar Maharaja or Srila Prabhupada alone then that is between that soul and Krishna. He may use them both in varying degrees to reveal Himself. Not sayng these are the only two choices BTW.

 

Krishna consciousness is the broadest state of God realization. Why do we always try to constrict it down to fit in our tiny little boxes.

 

 

 

Indradyumna Swami in a New York Taxi

 

“Can I ask you a few questions?” Indradyumna Swami asks the Taxi driver.

“Sure,” he said, “but first I want to say that I know you guys. I’ve seen you singing on the streets. You’re nice to everybody. You don’t pick on no one. And I see bad stuff everyday. I mean the other day a guy was shot dead right in front of my cab. What’s happening to this world?”

He paused for a moment.

“When are people gonna start learning tolerance and love?” he said emotionally.

I started to say something, but he continued. “I’ll tell you,” he said. “It’s when people start becoming religious. Religion is the only thing we got in common. I mean, we’re all God’s children. Ain’t that right?”

Before I could answer he continued. “But I have to confess to you guys,” he said. “I’m not a very good Muslim. I mean I don’t bow down five times a day and I don’t go to the mosque regularly. I’m really sorry about that.”

“But you seem to be very pious …” I said.

“And sometimes I use bad words,” he interrupted. “But I promise I won’t use bad language in front of you guys. My mullah once told me that God gives and forgives. But us? We get and forget.”

Just at that moment a police car pulled alongside us in the next lane. Our driver slowed down and pulled in behind the police car.

“Why did you do that?” I asked.

“Let me tell you, Mister,” he said, “it’s always better to be behind a police car. Omar, my friend, said that. That’s some down-to-earth philosophy, ain’t it?”

“Very much so,” I replied. “Now, I’d like to ask …”

He interrupted again. “You remember when the Taliban tore down the big statues of Buddha in Afghanistan a few years ago?” he said.

“Yes, of course I remember that,” I replied.

“Well, I was crying when I saw the pictures,” he said. “You gotta have respect for all the religions. All of them worship the same God. Slam one, you slam your own. You know what I mean?”

“Yes, I do,” I said. “And I wish more people …”

“My philosophy is that man is here to do good for others,” he continued. “And the best way you can help another man is to encourage him to follow his religion. It makes no sense to condemn his religion. And let me tell you what the cause of all the problems in the world is. You wanna know?”

“Yes, sir,” I replied trying to be patient. “I’d like to know.”

“I learned it driving this cab all those years,” he said. “The problem is that people are too materialistic. And what’s worse is that they bring materialism into religion. They go to the mosque, the church, or the temple and ask God for material things. Mister, there’s only one thing for which you should ask God. You know what that is?”

Surprised by his realizations, I was speechless.

“Service,” he said. “We should ask only for service. We were created by God to serve Him. Not the other way around. That’s natural. And if you do things naturally you’ll be happy. Do I have it right?”

“You hit the nail on the head,” I said, reflecting on how his words echoed Rupa Goswami’s definition of pure devotional service.

“I learned it all in a taxi,” he repeated with a smile as he looked over his shoulder at us again.

“Look out for that truck!” I yelled.

He turned around quickly and deftly avoided the vehicle.

“I see more of what’s going on around me because I’m not concerned with finding a parking place,” he said with a laugh. “That would be in the book too.”

We weaved in and out of traffic for some time and then he spoke up again.

“Religion is all messed up these days,” he said. “People are worshiping God for the wrong reasons. That’s why a lot of people are giving up on religion. One of my best friends, Hafiz, became an atheist last year. I mean what do we have in common anymore? One day he said, ‘Prove to me there’s a God.’ I put him in the back of my taxi and sat there with him. I told him, ‘It’s a question of faith, Hafiz,’

“He replied, ‘I don’t believe in faith.’

“I said, ‘You got faith the Atlantic Ocean’s not gonna overflow, right? You got faith them stars in the sky ain’t gonna fall down and smash New York City, don’t you? Yes, you do. And you know what? Somebody’s controlling all that. And that somebody is God. It’s not all happening by chance.’

“Hafiz became an agnostic after that. He started believing that ’something is out there.’

“But you guys, you’re helping people become religious all the time. That’s why I like you. You live for others. I live for myself, just driving this taxi. I know that Allah is more pleased with you than me. You’re out in the rain and snow, singing for Him. I’ve seen you. And that’s why I picked you guys up.”

“Sir,” said Gadadhara, “that’s our temple, just over there.”

“Oh it’s beautiful,” he said, “just beautiful.”

As we pulled up to the curb, the driver turned around. “Hey fellas,” he said, “this one’s on me. I really enjoyed our conversation.”

“Thank you so much,” I said. “That’s very kind of you.”

“Conversation?” Gadadhara whispered as he gathered his things. “You hardly got a word in.”

The driver quickly jumped out of the taxi and raced around to my side of the cab. As he opened the door he bowed slightly from the waist.

“The fare is 16 bucks,” he said. “But don’t worry about it. New York needs more guys like you.”

As I got out of the cab he stepped forward and suddenly hugged me. Then he stood back.

“I just have one request for you guys,” he said. “Please pray for me. Okay? And get that book that I was telling you about.”

“Will do,” I said as he got back into the taxi. “And, hey, you pray for us too.”

“Now that’s what folks should do,” he said, his voice trailing off as he drove away. “Religion is supposed to bring people together, not tear them apart. My friend Omar once said …”

Within a few seconds his taxi joined the fast-moving traffic. As we walked to the temple, Gadadhara laughed. “You never did get to ask your questions, did you?” he said.

I smiled. “Doesn’t matter,” I said. “Even without the questions, I learned more about New York than I would have thought possible. We really connected with that taxi driver. He was a great guy.”

The next day I went out and bought the book. I found the following passage in it:

“If there is understanding, there is love. If there is no understanding, there is only an endless stream of questions.”

[Taxi Driver Wisdom, Risa Mickenburg, Chronical Books, 1996]

Indradyumna.swami@pamho.net www. traveling-preacher. com Audio lectures: www. narottam. com

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beggar]

 

Treating Prabhupada as a 'take-it-or-leave-it' guru is far more disrespectful.

One is a matter of protocol with respect to a material ashrama. The other is a matter of siddhanta. Nice to see Prabhupada being quoted for a change. Showing outward respect is a far cry from embracing the teaching and intimate association which Prabhupada urged his disciples to avoid.

 

Remember cbrahma is the same person who only a few months ago was rejecting all forms of sadhana bhakti except for the chanting of nama.

He argued bitterly that all these things including adau guru padasraya, accepting the lotus feet of Sri Guru, worshiping Tulasi devi, arcana etc. were too difficult, like a demand to jump through many hoops. When we brought up the Tenth Canto verse, tat te nukampama, don't blame the environment for your suffering and the siksastakam verse trnadapi sunicena which perfectly expresses Vaisnava humility we were rebuffed by cbrahma for preaching a philosophy that leads to abuse by wolves in sheep's clothing and accused of adding and abetting such abuse. When we brought up the topic of saranagati or surrender, he also told us that it was unnecessary both an unnecessary burden and merely a contrivance or tool used by exploiters. Then when the beautiful and inspirational teachings of Srila Sridhar Maharaja on saranagati were introduced to in a sense throw him a life raft, he responded by lashing out with a PADA (Prabhupada Anti Defamation Association - Puranjana das) assault on Srila Sridhar Maharaja and all of Prabhupda's godbrothers. Yet this act of introducing Srila Sridhar Maharaja's vani seemed to trigger a flip in his ego state from a doubter to a full on Prabhupada only, PADA-like extremist. This is what I meant in an earlier post about an unstable mental condition. If one somehow transforms from a "dark night of the soul" condition to an appreciator of Srila Prabhupada, then I am happy for them. But if within their belief system if they feel that they must prove their loyalty to Srila Prabhupada by attacking his godbrothers and disciples then I cannot say that it is a good thing. I also remember that before cbramha was a Doubting Thomas of bhakti that he was also attacking Srila Sridhar Maharaja around one year ago. Could it just be that an offensive, critical attitude in the name of Srila Prabhupada does not really please him, and therefore has it's subsequent reactions as one cuts themselves off from his mercy by displaying a hard heart?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Remembering Narayana at the time of death will take me closer the goal by putting me in a birth with favorable circumstances for my sadhana. But it will be a material birth on this planet.

 

The Gita mentions this in the 8th chapter:

 

 

 

anta-kale ca mam eva

smaran muktva kalevaram

yah prayati sa mad-bhavam

yati nasty atra samsayah

 

 

"And whoever, at the end of his life, quits his body remembering Me alone at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt."

 

The Bhagavata also states the following:

 

 

 

etavan sankhya-yogabhyam

sva-dharma-parinishthaya

janma-labhah parah pumsam

ante narayana-smritih

 

 

 

"The highest perfection of human life, achieved either by complete knowledge of matter and spirit, by practice of mystic powers, or by perfect discharge of occupational duty, is to remember Narayana at the end of life."

 

This is illustrated in the life of Ajamila, who was delivered at the time of death by calling the name of his son who was named Narayana.

 

In that story, the Vishnu-dutas tell the Yama-dutas the following:

 

 

 

ayam hi krita-nirveso

janma-koty-amhasam api

yad vyajahara vivaso

nama svasty-ayanam hareh

 

 

"Ajamila has already atoned for all his sinful actions. Indeed, he has atoned not only for sins performed in one life but for those performed in millions of lives, for in a helpless condition he chanted the holy name of Narayana. Even though he did not chant purely, he chanted without offense, and therefore he is now pure and eligible for liberation."

 

 

 

etenaiva hy aghono 'sya

kritam syad agha-nishkritam

yada narayanayeti

jagada catur-aksharam

 

 

"The Vishnu-dutas continued: Even previously, while eating and at other times, this Ajamila would call his son, saying, "My dear Narayana, please come here." Although calling the name of his son, he nevertheless uttered the four syllables na-ra-ya-na. Simply by chanting the name of Narayana in this way, he sufficiently atoned for the sinful reactions of millions of lives."

 

 

 

athainam mapanayata

kritaseshagha-nishkritam

yad asau bhagavan-nama

mriyamanah samagrahit

 

 

"At the time of death, this Ajamila helplessly and very loudly chanted the holy name of the Lord, Narayana. That chanting alone has already freed him from the reactions of all sinful life. Therefore, O servants of Yamaraja, do not try to take him to your master for punishment in hellish conditions."

 

Also hearing Bhagavata at the time of death delivers one to Vaikuntha:

 

 

 

etan maha-punyam alam pavitram

dhanyam yasasyam padam ayur-asisham

pranendriyanam yudhi saurya-vardhanam

narayano 'nte gatir anga srinvatam

 

 

"This most sacred narrative confers extraordinary merit, wealth, fame, longevity, and all the objects of one's desire. On the field of battle it promotes the strength of one's vital organs and organs of action. One who listens to it at the last moment of his life is transferred to the supreme abode of the Lord, O dear Saunaka."

 

There is no guarantee that anyone will be able to chant Narayana's name at the time of death, but if he is fortunate enough to do so, Narayana will deliver him.

[AncientMariner]

 

Remember cbrahma is the same person who only a few months ago was rejecting all forms of sadhana bhakti except for the chanting of nama.

He argued bitterly that all these things including adau guru padasraya, accepting the lotus feet of Sri Guru, worshiping Tulasi devi, arcana etc. were too difficult, like a demand to jump through many hoops. When we brought up the Tenth Canto verse, tat te nukampama, don't blame the environment for your suffering and the siksastakam verse trnadapi sunicena which perfectly expresses Vaisnava humility we were rebuffed by cbrahma for preaching a philosophy that leads to abuse by wolves in sheep's clothing and accused of adding and abetting such abuse. When we brought up the topic of saranagati or surrender, he also told us that it was unnecessary both an unnecessary burden and merely a contrivance or tool used by exploiters. Then when the beautiful and inspirational teachings of Srila Sridhar Maharaja on saranagati were introduced to in a sense throw him a life raft, he responded by lashing out with a PADA (Prabhupada Anti Defamation Association - Puranjana das) assault on Srila Sridhar Maharaja and all of Prabhupda's godbrothers. Yet this act of introducing Srila Sridhar Maharaja's vani seemed to trigger a flip in his ego state from a doubter to a full on Prabhupada only, PADA-like extremist. This is what I meant in an earlier post about an unstable mental condition. If one somehow transforms from a "dark night of the soul" condition to an appreciator of Srila Prabhupada, then I am happy for them. But if within their belief system if they feel that they must prove their loyalty to Srila Prabhupada by attacking his godbrothers and disciples then I cannot say that it is a good thing. I also remember that before cbramha was a Doubting Thomas of bhakti that he was also attacking Srila Sridhar Maharaja around one year ago. Could it just be that an offensive, critical attitude in the name of Srila Prabhupada does not really please him, and therefore has it's subsequent reactions as one cuts themselves off from his mercy by displaying a hard heart?

 

 

I agree. Cbrahma should be courtmartialed.

[cbrahma]

 

I agree. Cbrahma should be courtmartialed.

Guru politics and beggar go hand in hand. His smear campaign is so fanatical and indicative of what a Vaisnava should NOT be. His desperate presumptions about my psychology, character etc... are so self serving as to be hilarious. But then he is a G Math guru disciple. (ignore Beggar)

[Beggar]

 

Politics and beggar go hand in hand. His smear campaign is so fanatical and indicative of what a Vaisnava should NOT be.

 

I don't really want to court marshal cbrahma, not really. And even if I don't appreciate then I will hope to appreciate his affinity for the Holy Name and Prabhupada. But I do wish that he would open his heart and see that all real Vaisnavas (I cannot claim to be a Vaisnava) are his well wishers and the well wishers of all of us.

[Beggar]

 

Politics and beggar go hand in hand. His smear campaign is so fanatical and indicative of what a Vaisnava should NOT be.

First of all you forgot to capitialize Beggar. My full name is Beggar das Mleecha.

[Dark Warrior]

 

"And whoever, at the end of his life, quits his body remembering Me alone at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt."

 

Sri Ramanujar accepts this as a legitimate way, but he also posits a different idea.

 

According to him, not everyone is capable of remembering the Lord at the time of Death. A devotee may be taken sick, or may lose all consciousness at the time of death. He may not be in a state to even remember his own name, let alone chant the name of the Lord.

 

Consider Jada Bharata. A great devotee of the Lord, but unfortunately, he could only remember his pet deer at the time of his death. His next birth was that of a deer.

 

So, Sri Ramanujar interprets 'Sarva Dharman Parityajya....' as Saranagati. According to Sri Vaishnavism, if a devotee expresses his incapability to follow such protocol, and sincerely tells the Lord how incompetent he is to perform such sadhana, then there is no need for him to worry about remembering the Lord at the time of death.

 

So, instead of worrying about your efforts, it is better to do saranagati and express your inability to do it. The Lord Himself will come to you at the time of death, even if you haven't chanted Hare Krishna 300,000 times in your life.

 

Of course, this doesn't mean one should stop chanting!! It only means, a truly surrendered soul will not worry about remembering the Lord at the time of death by his own efforts and will leave it to the Lord.

[Amlesh]

 

First of all you forgot to capitialize Beggar. My full name is Beggar das Mleecha.

 

I think we are relatives.