Reason why Vaishanava Avatars(Not GODS)are targetted

[cbrahma]

What exactly is the point being made on this thread. That Krsna is not Bhagavan? That is absurd. One would have to toss out the Bhagavad Gita and the Bhagavatam to make that stick and even then there are sastras that would cause embarrasment.

[tackleberry]

 

What exactly is the point being made on this thread. That Krsna is not Bhagavan? That is absurd. One would have to toss out the Bhagavad Gita and the Bhagavatam to make that stick and even then there are sastras that would cause embarrasment.

 

Correct. But to be fair, nobody's suggesting that, except the OP.

[cbrahma]

 

Correct. But to be fair, nobody's suggesting that, except the OP.

Apparently your reading comprehension needs some work.

[realist31]

 

The Vali Episode is misconstrued by most people. There is a simple explanation:

 

1) Vali asks Sri Rama 6 questions before dying, upon which Sri Rama clearly answers them.

 

2) Vali is pleased with the answers, and hails Rama as the Supreme Being before he dies.

 

I do not remember all the 6 answers that Sri Rama gave Vali, but here are two of them:

 

1) Vali had taken Sugriva's wife. He had chased away Sugriva even when the latter had apologised to him. In doing so, Vali had behaved like a common animal, filled with lust and pride.

 

Sri Rama told Vali that an animal deserves to be killed only this way, and Vali did not deserve the honor of a dignified death.

 

2) It was Rama Rajya, and on behalf of Bharata, he had the right to punish all wrong-doers. Vali had tried to kill Sugriva even after the latter had literally fallen at Vali's feet, asking for forgiveness. Therefore, Vali was punishable.

 

There is also another hidden meaning. Rama didn't want to give Vali the chance to recognise who He was (Supreme Lord Vishnu). If before Rama could get the chance to kill Vali, if Vali surrenders to Lord Rama's lotus feet, then the Lord would not be able to administer Dharma. He cannot kill a surrendered soul.

 

Before coming to fight Sugriva, Tara warns Vali about Rama, but Vali laughs it off saying, 'I know who Rama is. I know that He would never do wrong, being the embodiment of Dharma'.

 

So, if Rama had challenged Vali to a one-on-one fight, Vali would have lost. And it is quite possible then, that Vali will recognise who Rama really is, and will fall at Rama's lotus feet for Surrender. Sri Rama did not want to give this chance to Vali.

 

Too many people have misunderstood this episode, and quite frankly, there is nothing adharmic r even unnatural about Rama killing Vali the way He did. Even Vali asks for Rama's forgiveness and blessings before he dies, as he becomes satisfied with Rama's answers.

 

How do u know Rama wouldve won,Vaali had boons that made him very strong and he also was a great fighter and Rama is not well versed in Gadayuda.

 

By the way if Tara herself is ok to live with Vaali then what is it that is wrong with him anyway?

Please try to remember all those 6 answers and then post here,also where did you find these 6 answers?Is it in Valmiki Ramayana?Which chapter,please give some more information

 

If there is a hidden meaning how did you see it?Or u just made it up to suite ur theory?Human mind is very creative as u know.

 

Someone here said it was act of smartness and quoted Shivaji for that,if that was the case then what about Aswathama,he was smarter than both Rama and Shivaji as he killed people in their sleep....

[raghu]

 

I am not aware of Rama being accused of cowardice in this episode. On the contrary it was the smart move, as he would have failed to win a head-on battle with Vali by virtue of the latter's unique abilities.

 

So I do not see any problems here.

 

Cheers

 

Shvu, on what basis do you allege that rAma would have failed to win in head-on combat with vAli?

 

As far as the vAlmIki rAmAyaNa is concerned, rAma's killing of vAli was a punishment for his transgression of usurping his brother's wife. The context makes all of this clear.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

What is wrong in expecting proof?Would you believe a Superman comics to be real?Rama was not a coward but his act certainly was that of a coward,how else you describe it,again Rama was never mentioned as GOD and just a Avatar,how many times should i say that,he prayed Lord Shiva to fight Ravana and died like mortals,does god die?

And again this is all in the epics and what proof do we have they existed,and tell me what is wrong in expecting proof?And yea what is wrong in wishing to see the miracles for real before believing them?

Woudl you believe if Saibaba says he will appear in the moon and not appear there for you?

I just dont understand what is wrong in asking proof.Please enlighten me in that aspect.

Did the creator of Superman claim him to be based on a real person? Has he had a religion centered around him or a form of him for thousands of years?

Lord Rama prayed to Lord Shiva as an example. He wanted to show us that it's okay to ask for Lord Shiva's help.

No, God never dies. No one ever truly dies. But, when anyone takes form (including God) there has to be some end to their stay here... that end is the dying of the body. Lord Ram had to end His lila somehow, and that's how He ended it. But, Sita Devi certainly didn't die like a mortal (b/c She's an incarnation of Lakshmi/Radharani), so do you think that She's purely divine, but Lord Ram isn't?

If Sai Baba said it thousands of years ago, and then is reported to have done it, then I might believe it.

If all you want is proof, then why do you even believe in God? No one can prove God's existence. You have to go on faith. So, there's nothing really wrong with it, but if all that you can believe is what you can experience with the senses, then you shouldn't even believe in God.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

king like Shivaji

Honestly, what do you even know anything about Shiva Ji?

[shiva]

From the Kali Santarana Upanishad

 

 

Hari Om ! At the end of Dvapara-Yuga, Narada went to Brahma and addressed him thus: "O Lord, how shall I, roaming over the earth, be able to across Kali ?" To which Brahma thus replied: "Well asked. Hearken to that which all Shrutis (the Vedas) keep secret and hidden, through which one may cross the Samsara (mundane existence) of Kali. He shakes off (the evil effects of) Kali through the mere uttering of the name of the Lord Narayana, who is the primeval Purusha". Again Narada asked Brahma: "What is the name ?" To which Hiranyagarbha (Brahma) replied thus:

 

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

[realist31]

 

Did the creator of Superman claim him to be based on a real person? Has he had a religion centered around him or a form of him for thousands of years?

Lord Rama prayed to Lord Shiva as an example. He wanted to show us that it's okay to ask for Lord Shiva's help.

No, God never dies. No one ever truly dies. But, when anyone takes form (including God) there has to be some end to their stay here... that end is the dying of the body. Lord Ram had to end His lila somehow, and that's how He ended it. But, Sita Devi certainly didn't die like a mortal (b/c She's an incarnation of Lakshmi/Radharani), so do you think that She's purely divine, but Lord Ram isn't?

If Sai Baba said it thousands of years ago, and then is reported to have done it, then I might believe it.

If all you want is proof, then why do you even believe in God? No one can prove God's existence. You have to go on faith. So, there's nothing really wrong with it, but if all that you can believe is what you can experience with the senses, then you shouldn't even believe in God.

 

Why should u have blind faith without questioning something just for the sake of Temptation and fear?

 

How do u know Rama was a avatar and not just a man like u and me?

How did he incarnate again?u mean as Krishna and die again for his killing of Vaali?

How can any do gooder or a thug type person just cause he has power and conquered be called Avatar or GOD when he suffers a death,and has no power this day,dont u think there has to be any use in praying these people in day to day life?

Do u get ur food water and shelter just by chanting their name or going to church or a mosque?If not then whats the point in the so called faith?

[cbrahma]

 

Why should u have blind faith without questioning something just for the sake of Temptation and fear?

 

How do u know Rama was a avatar and not just a man like u and me?

How did he incarnate again?u mean as Krishna and die again for his killing of Vaali?

How can any do gooder or a thug type person just cause he has power and conquered be called Avatar or GOD when he suffers a death,and has no power this day,dont u think there has to be any use in praying these people in day to day life?

Do u get ur food water and shelter just by chanting their name or going to church or a mosque?If not then whats the point in the so called faith?

Are you seriously questioning the status of an avatar that is Visnu-tattva.

Are you insane?

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Why should u have blind faith without questioning something just for the sake of Temptation and fear?

 

How do u know Rama was a avatar and not just a man like u and me?

How did he incarnate again?u mean as Krishna and die again for his killing of Vaali?

How can any do gooder or a thug type person just cause he has power and conquered be called Avatar or GOD when he suffers a death,and has no power this day,dont u think there has to be any use in praying these people in day to day life?

Do u get ur food water and shelter just by chanting their name or going to church or a mosque?If not then whats the point in the so called faith?

I'm not scared of Krishna. I love Him. I'm not scared of being tempted. I really don't care if I am. I'm just glad that I have Sri Sri Radha-Krishna to serve. All I want is to be a servant of Radharani and Lord Krishna.

I don't think that Krishna was killed b/c He killed Vali as Rama. I think He was killed b/c that's how He chose to leave the earth.

Do you even believe in God? If so, then how can you criticize ANYONE for believing anything about God? You can't prove God. I can't prove Krishna (which is the name I call God). And, if you don't believe in God, then why are you even on here asking questions about Him in the first place? To mock His devotees?

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Are you seriously questioning the status of an avatar that is Visnu-tattva.

Are you insane?

He says he believes in Vishnu, but then insults His forms as Rama and Krishna. He's ridiculous. No other Hindu in the world that worships Vishnu refuses to recognize Rama and Krishna. He's ridiculous.

[realist31]

 

I'm not scared of Krishna. I love Him. I'm not scared of being tempted. I really don't care if I am. I'm just glad that I have Sri Sri Radha-Krishna to serve. All I want is to be a servant of Radharani and Lord Krishna.

I don't think that Krishna was killed b/c He killed Vali as Rama. I think He was killed b/c that's how He chose to leave the earth.

Do you even believe in God? If so, then how can you criticize ANYONE for believing anything about God? You can't prove God. I can't prove Krishna (which is the name I call God). And, if you don't believe in God, then why are you even on here asking questions about Him in the first place? To mock His devotees?

I believe in god because someone might have created the world so that person is GOD.But yes i havent seen him so i cant say i am going to dance with him after i die and he did this he did that to so and so.

 

Im not mocking anyone,i am here to find if there is proof so that i can believe,im searching but i havent found,if u seem to have found then u show it or else keep searching,ur story with no proof mocks itself and not me,u r doing it to urself,not me.

 

Anyone can write books and create characters,if ur going to believe in them dont u think they should show themselves at some point to u?

Whereas ur saying so based on some book written some years ago.

 

How can u go serve Radha and Krishna when u dont even know where they live?

Even if they live somewhere they dont seem to want u now,what is the guarantee they may want u in future,why do u want to serve them when ur not welcome to be there now?

 

How can u prove Krishnas existence,because seriously if there is someone like that now even i might love to know and what benefit does he give u?

IF u just want to be someones slave then there r lot of people who might use ur service...

 

Im not judging anyone,i am just asking questions,u dont have to judge me,call me aethist or anything,but the onus is on those who claim something exists to prove it does,or else they r cheating themselves and others.

 

When ur a child ur mother tells u the moon is there for ur taking if u finish ur food(u mean any kid,this is just a example)

So do u think the moonis going to come to u?

Sameway stories like Jesus healing the blind or Krishna lifting the govardan in his pinky are stories,if he shows it now then i will believe,that makes me a curious person and not a mocker?

 

I didnt insult Rama,i said based on the Epic he was a Avatar,a man who died like any man and who had flaws,again that is only if he existed,i believe in Visnu Shiva because ive been told to when i grew up,maybe they r alive or maybe not who knows,but if u say ur going to dance with him in GOLOKA then that is a bit funny dont u think.

 

Thats like believing tomorrow we will wake up,we may wake up or we may not,same way visnu maybe there or maybe not,but ur saying ur going to serve someone when u dont even know how that might feel or how that is better thanall pleasures...

 

So my belief is just a optimistic thinking,just to cling onto something,but u all seem to know for sure and its u all Rama devotees who started judging people who criticised him,so u must be ready for the facts(if he existed and if he did those cowardly acts)to be put in front of u.

 

If u want to be a yes man for Rama go ahead,but dont judge people who question him if ur not ready to give proof of his existence,people criticise thinking he was a man and they r right until u prove otherwise

[RadheyRadhey108]

You aren't here for answers. You're only here to get in arguments. But, I can't blame you. This is the Age of Quarrel.

[cbrahma]

 

I believe in god because someone might have created the world so that person is GOD.But yes i havent seen him so i cant say i am going to dance with him after i die and he did this he did that to so and so.

 

Im not mocking anyone,i am here to find if there is proof so that i can believe,im searching but i havent found,if u seem to have found then u show it or else keep searching,ur story with no proof mocks itself and not me,u r doing it to urself,not me.

 

Anyone can write books and create characters,if ur going to believe in them dont u think they should show themselves at some point to u?

Whereas ur saying so based on some book written some years ago.

 

How can u go serve Radha and Krishna when u dont even know where they live?

Even if they live somewhere they dont seem to want u now,what is the guarantee they may want u in future,why do u want to serve them when ur not welcome to be there now?

 

How can u prove Krishnas existence,because seriously if there is someone like that now even i might love to know and what benefit does he give u?

IF u just want to be someones slave then there r lot of people who might use ur service...

 

Im not judging anyone,i am just asking questions,u dont have to judge me,call me aethist or anything,but the onus is on those who claim something exists to prove it does,or else they r cheating themselves and others.

 

When ur a child ur mother tells u the moon is there for ur taking if u finish ur food(u mean any kid,this is just a example)

So do u think the moonis going to come to u?

Sameway stories like Jesus healing the blind or Krishna lifting the govardan in his pinky are stories,if he shows it now then i will believe,that makes me a curious person and not a mocker?

 

I didnt insult Rama,i said based on the Epic he was a Avatar,a man who died like any man and who had flaws,again that is only if he existed,i believe in Visnu Shiva because ive been told to when i grew up,maybe they r alive or maybe not who knows,but if u say ur going to dance with him in GOLOKA then that is a bit funny dont u think.

 

Thats like believing tomorrow we will wake up,we may wake up or we may not,same way visnu maybe there or maybe not,but ur saying ur going to serve someone when u dont even know how that might feel or how that is better thanall pleasures...

 

So my belief is just a optimistic thinking,just to cling onto something,but u all seem to know for sure and its u all Rama devotees who started judging people who criticised him,so u must be ready for the facts(if he existed and if he did those cowardly acts)to be put in front of u.

 

If u want to be a yes man for Rama go ahead,but dont judge people who question him if ur not ready to give proof of his existence,people criticise thinking he was a man and they r right until u prove otherwise

You are crazy. A crazy Hindu.

[realist31]

 

You are crazy. A crazy Hindu.

Im crazy for believing someone might have created the world but ur not crazy for expecting to go dance in GOLOKA when u dont even know it exists,wow what a logic

 

And how did u come to the enlightment this is age of quarell mr Radhey radhey,so is this why ur quarelling with me?So u cant prove GOLOKA exists?Am i right?U dont seem to have answers,y do u blame this yuga for ur incompetence?

If u see ur postings or most others postings to my questions are totally irrelevant and some of them are not even in Valmiki Ramayana,just cooked up on the way to suit ur beliefs and u call me im here to quarel..Ignorance sure is bliss for u i guess,so what do u do day in and day out,wait for ur ticket to GOLOKA?

 

I am here to see if there is proof,if there is then i would love to go there myself,maybe if i start posting like i saw Krishna dancing with his gopis thru a telescope from here then maybe i can become popular...then i wont be crazy,i will be a believer.

[cbrahma]

 

Im crazy for believing someone might have created the world but ur not crazy for expecting to go dance in GOLOKA when u dont even know it exists,wow what a logic

 

And how did u come to the enlightment this is age of quarell mr Radhey radhey,so is this why ur quarelling with me?So u cant prove GOLOKA exists?Am i right?

 

I am here to see if there is proof,if there is then i would love to go there myself,maybe if i start posting like i saw Krishna dancing with his gopis thru a telescope from here then maybe i can become popular...then i wont be crazy,i will be a believer.

Get help. You are totally incoherent.

[realist31]

 

Get help. You are totally incoherent.

For what?I am not sitting here waiting for my ticket to GOLOKA to dance with Radha and Krishna....

 

Maybe if u convince me Krishna will give u ur ticket...lol....If u say everything is his leela y do u get all mad at me?

 

 

Cbrahma here dont like me,do u all u guys want me to go out of this forum cause i ask questions?Please tell me so and if i get like 5 or more people asking so then i would leave,i have no hard feelings so far,i just thought ill talk to people who really know stuff about Krishna,if not its ok as well,after all i thought its ok to learn from people if they really know something

[Dark Warrior]

 

How do u know Rama wouldve won,Vaali had boons that made him very strong and he also was a great fighter and Rama is not well versed in Gadayuda

 

Because, you blasphemous imbecile, Sugriva had already tested Rama's strength before the fight. Sugriva told Rama that Vali would only able to uproot one tree. Rama, to show He was stronger than Vali, uprooted all 7 trees.

 

Rama could have easily befriended Vali and rescued Sita, because Ravana feared Vali. But instead, He chose to remain with Sugriva. That is His mahima (greatness) and you, a complete twit, can't realise it.