Who is greater Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva

[Shivaduta]

Actually we have many threads in this forum which focus on someone picking up one flag and trying to beat the others down... This behaviour is not beneficial to anyone...

 

The three forces (embodied by Brahma Vishnu and Shiva) are primeiveal forces of cosmic energy which involve the creation, the maintainence and the destruction...

 

The ongoing process is a endless one and all three are "all powerful" in their own sense... and creation cant be complete without any one of the three.

 

if a vehicle has three wheels it is obvious that only those who respect and accept each of the three wheels can drive the vehicle well...

 

so also anyone seeking true knowledge cant find it unless he respects and values every aspect of the eternal existance.

 

so my advice to all those starting stupid threads of hatred is.... PLEASE GROW UP...

[suchandra]

 

Actually we have many threads in this forum which focus on someone picking up one flag and trying to beat the others down... This behaviour is not beneficial to anyone...

 

The three forces (embodied by Brahma Vishnu and Shiva) are primeiveal forces of cosmic energy which involve the creation, the maintainence and the destruction...

 

The ongoing process is a endless one and all three are "all powerful" in their own sense... and creation cant be complete without any one of the three.

 

if a vehicle has three wheels it is obvious that only those who respect and accept each of the three wheels can drive the vehicle well...

 

so also anyone seeking true knowledge cant find it unless he respects and values every aspect of the eternal existance.

 

so my advice to all those starting stupid threads of hatred is.... PLEASE GROW UP...

Thanks Shivaduta, since your name is messenger of Lord Shiva, you might consider that Lord Shiva is the greatest? Indeed it says, vaishnavanam yatha sambhuh: "Lord Siva, is the greatest"!

 

[indulekhadasi]

Vaishnavanam yatha sambuh:

Lord Shiva is the greatest Vaishnava.

 

Greatness lies in humility and devotion, also. Let us keep this in mind.

[bija]

An integral vision of what is, is pleasing to the heart. Thx for your words Shivaduta. The glory of the vedic view is its ability to express harmony, the wisdom of the sages. A harmony that so-called advanced civilization seems to forget sometimes.

 

"as the digital TV screens get bigger - hearts seem to be getting smaller"

-amma

[Beggar]

 

The three forces (embodied by Brahma Vishnu and Shiva) are primeiveal forces of cosmic energy which involve the creation, the maintainence and the destruction...

 

 

What about on the suddha sattva plane where there is no creation or destruction, only maintenance? That plane is not formless but rather this enervating material plane's forms are but a perverted reflection of that Reality.

[bija]

Nice Beggar... this transcendence you speak of, how can an abstract expression (for many people) such as transcendence consisting of diverse reality become tangible? Why is it not absract to the spiritualists of Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

 

How can we get to the point beyond just faith in text?

 

Realist 31 said in a post yesterday something like 'how am I supposed to believe in a dancing circle of gopis as the divine reality.'

[Shivaduta]

 

What about on the suddha sattva plane where there is no creation or destruction, only maintenance? That plane is not formless but rather this enervating material plane's forms are but a perverted reflection of that Reality.

 

 

Where there is no decay there is no progress either...

if u were 10 meters away from your ishtadevata today even after a million years you would not be an inch closer...

not many would want to be a part of such a existance... even if it existed.

 

we seriously should think if a plane where there is no fear of destruction and no one is capable of making anything new or thinking a new thought.. can be called "enervating" ... many would prefer a "perverted reflection" where a shankaracharya and a prabhupada are born and can come up with their new individual and unique enlightning thought processes.

 

many would risk a death to get a chance to improve the meaning of life

[Shivaduta]

 

Thanks Shivaduta, since your name is messenger of Lord Shiva

 

 

Dearest Suchandra

let us not be so naive as to assume that a name taken to join a forum is an embodiment of the ultimate truth... that way i would love to imagine the professions and personalities of our friends with names such as "bijabeggaratheistKrsna"

 

To one who sees truly names do not matter... and shiva is equally revered as krishna or narayan... being a shivaduta doesnt mean one cant be a krishnaduta as well or possible even a RAVAN-duta:smash: on occasions

[AncientMariner]

The way I understand things is that Shiva is an aspect of Krishna and has 84% of the qualities of Krishna but no matter how you look at it Shiva is cool as hell.

[Shivaduta]

 

An integral vision of what is, is pleasing to the heart. Thx for your words Shivaduta. The glory of the vedic view is its ability to express harmony, the wisdom of the sages. A harmony that so-called advanced civilization seems to forget sometimes.

 

Hinduism has existed eternally because of the quality that it encompasses all and allows for peaceful coexistance. Unfortuantely the western influences have brought in "missionary zeal" into many of the sub sects of hinduism... "my guru is the best... and my god is the only god... convert to my belief or be erased" seems to be their motto... i think this kind of narrow minded thinking isnt in keeping with the basic concept of hinduism where people who followed various gods and customs lived together and prospered on the banks of a river...

[Shivaduta]

 

The way I understand things is that Shiva is an aspect of Krishna and has 84% of the qualities of Krishna but no matter how you look at it Shiva is cool as hell.

 

 

can't stop loving the phrase "cool as hell" :cool:

[AncientMariner]

 

Hinduism has existed eternally because of the quality that it encompasses all and allows for peaceful coexistance. Unfortuantely the western influences have brought in "missionary zeal" into many of the sub sects of hinduism... "my guru is the best... and my god is the only god... convert to my belief or be erased" seems to be their motto... i think this kind of narrow minded thinking isnt in keeping with the basic concept of hinduism where people who followed various gods and customs lived together and prospered on the banks of a river...

 

 

I don't know for sure but it seems that Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Gaudiya Vaisnavism is kind of a controversial branch of Hinduism to traditional Hindus or at least it seems like on this message board.

[Shivaduta]

 

I don't know for sure but it seems that Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Gaudiya Vaisnavism is kind of a controversial branch of Hinduism to traditional Hindus or at least it seems like on this message board.

 

I do not think chaitanya mahaprabhu or gaudiya vaishnavism says "my guru is the best... and my god is the only god... convert to my belief or be erased"... Do you?

[matarisvan]

 

I don't know for sure but it seems that Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Gaudiya Vaisnavism is kind of a controversial branch of Hinduism to traditional Hindus or at least it seems like on this message board.

The dvaita website has posted a page describing the deviations of Gaudiya Vaishnavism from the traditional view. Some of them are,

1. Traditional branches of Vaishnavism rely on a broad range of scriptures. But Gaudiya Vaishnavas rely fully on the Bhagavatam. As these texts can be interpreted differently, lack support from other valid scriptures has resulted in misinterpretation by Gaudiya Vaishnavas.

2. Only Gaudiya Vaishnavas do not view Krishna as an avatar.

3. Worship of Radha as a deity.

4. Seeing Chaitanya as an avatar of Vishnu

These and recent attempts to forge links with Christianity for wooing Christians and such other practices are the reasons for seeing Gaudiya Vaishnavism as a controversial branch. Idiotic and arrogant responses from some HKs on the forum do not help either.

[Kingdecember]

 

Idiotic and arrogant responses from some HKs on the forum do not help either.

 

lol......

 

Just as a single force in space can be mathematically conceived as having various spatial components, the Supreme Being or God, the personal form of the Ultimate Reality, is conceived by Hindus as having various aspects. A Hindu deity (god or goddess; note small g) represents a particular aspect of the Supreme Being. Just as sunlight cannot have a separate and independent existence from the sun itself, a Hindu deity does not have a separate and independent existence from the Supreme Being. Thus, Hindu worship of deities is monotheistic polytheism and not simple polytheism.

 

Hindus declare that there is only one Supreme Being and He is the God of all religions. There is no "other God." Thus the Biblical Commandment "Thou shalt have no other God before me," really means, "Thou shalt not deny the Ultimate Reality or worship any power other than the Ultimate Reality."

 

Hindus view cosmic activity of the Supreme Being as comprised of three tasks: creation, preservation, and dissolution and recreation. Hindus associate these three cosmic tasks with the three deities, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Lord Brahma brings forth the creation and represents the creative principle of the Supreme Being. Lord Vishnu maintains the universe and represents the eternal principle of preservation. Lord Shiva represents the principle of dissolution and recreation. These three deities together form the Hindu Trinity.

One must clearly understand that Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are not three independent deities. They represent the same power (the Supreme Being), but in three different aspects. Just as a man may be called a doctor, father or husband based upon the tasks he performs, the Supreme Being is called Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva when conceived as performing the three different cosmic tasks of creation, preservation, and dissolution/recreation.

[raghu]

here we go again....

[AncientMariner]

 

I do not think chaitanya mahaprabhu or gaudiya vaishnavism says "my guru is the best... and my god is the only god... convert to my belief or be erased"... Do you?

 

 

No I don't think that at all although I have run across Hare Krishnas that do try and pressure you into taking initiation from their guru. I have even been emailed by a person I don't know saying I should join their guru and that I had to have a living guru.

[Beggar]

 

No I don't think that at all although I have run across Hare Krishnas that do try and pressure you into taking initiation from their guru. I have even been emailed by a person I don't know saying I should join their guru and that I had to have a living guru.

I personally believe that every devotee needs a living guru, unless they are on a very high level of attainment. And even if one is on that level they will accept a guru to set the example for others as did Sri Krsna, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Nityananada Prabhu and others. But I will never tell you that you must accept such and such guru. I may introduce someone to a bonafide guru but I will never insists that they must accept that guru as their initiating guru. The most important thing is hearing from the lips of a realized devotee about the nectarean pastimes of the Lord.

[AncientMariner]

 

I personally believe that every devotee needs a living guru, unless they are on a very high level of attainment. And even if one is on that level they will accept a guru to set the example for others as did Sri Krsna, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Nityananada Prabhu and others. But I will never tell you that you must accept such and such guru. I may introduce someone to a bonafide guru but I will never insists that they must accept that guru as their initiating guru. The most important thing is hearing from the lips of a realized devotee about the nectarean pastimes of the Lord.

 

 

I have never thought you were the person that emailed me. I don't have a big problem with your enthusiasm for Prabhupadas Godbrothers. I tend to agree with cbrahma though when he says he isn't willing to risk his spiritual life on a crapshoot and the only real guru that has caught my attention is Prabhupada but maybe someday I will meet a living guru who knows.

[suchandra]

 

I personally believe that every devotee needs a living guru...

Lord Jesus preached for only three years and is being worshiped since 2000 years and it will go on. We shouldnt degrade Vaishnavism into a primitive 3rd world belief and say, gurus like Srila Prabhupada are no more existing, you only make it with a living guru.

 

Srila Prabhupada says his books will be giving the divyam jnanam (diksha) for 10,000 years. That is the real source of "divyam jnanam" i.e. "diksha" and that is the source of the actual "initiations." The ceremony is only formality. Many folks are confusing form v substance - Prabhupada's books, lectures, letters are giving the diksha, the divyam jnanam, the substance, the source of divyam jnanam. So far people have failed to tell us what is their source of diksha i.e. the divyam jnanam? When being asked what is your current source of the divyam jnanam (diksha), they have none.

 

Vani is giving the divyam jnanam, that is the source of the diksha, then they say it is only shiksha? When did Srila Prabhupada say his books will no longer contain divyam jnanam after his physical presence? This is all making it up to fit mundane interests. He never said that his books would stop to have divyam jnanam.

[Beggar]

 

Srila Prabhupada says his books will be giving the divyam jnanam (diksha) for 10,000 years.

Yasodanandana Prabhu has put this on his website. I believe that the so-called quote has been doctored:

"My books will be the law books for the next ten thousand years"

(Srila Prabhupada statement in Los Angeles, 1976).

What I remember reading is, "these books are like law books for the next ten thousand years."

I'm still looking for a trustworthy quote.

[suchandra]

 

"My books will be the law books for the next ten thousand years"

(Srila Prabhupada statement in Los Angeles, 1976).

 

Thanks yes, this is present Vaishnavism, fighting about the status of Prabhupada's books - you say they cannot initiate people into the path bhakti-yoga?

Please go on begging and find out!

[Beggar]

The Bhaktivedanta Archives has published this statement at:

http://www.prabhupada.com/bhaktivedanta_archives-vision_goals_activities.pdf

 

In the course of another conversation, Srila Prabhupäda is reported to have said that his books would be the law books for those 10,000 years.

If anyone had a clear evidentary quote that could be verified by an audio recording surely we would expect the Bhaktivedanta Archives themselves to have access to such a quote, so it does not appear to exist. Another entire section of ISKCON myth debunked just like the "preaching is the essence, purity is the force etc" quote that actually does not exist as a statement made directly by Srila Prabhupada. Yet despite the fact that Srila Prabhupada never said this, it is frequently quoted as authoritative in ISKCON classes.

 

[suchandra]

 

The Bhaktivedanta Archives has published this statement at:

http://www.prabhupada.com/bhaktivedanta_archives-vision_goals_activities.pdf

 

If anyone had a clear evidentary quote that could be verified by an audio recording surely we would expect the Bhaktivedanta Archives themselves to have access to such a quote, so it does not appear to exist. Another entire section of ISKCON myth debunked just like the "preaching is the essence, purity is the force etc" quote that actually does not exist as a statement made directly by Srila Prabhupada. Yet despite the fact that Srila Prabhupada never said this, it is frequently quoted as authoritative in ISKCON classes.

 

Here's the problem, Bhaktivedanta Archives considers, "Prabhupada's books".

But nobody is forced to accept below - in this world, like Beggar, everyone has the freedom to reject such statements.

Causelessmercy - Arrival Conversation - Los Angeles, June 20, 1975

Well, it is not my book; it is Kṛṣṇa's book. I am trying my best to present it as it is. That's all. That much you can say my, but there is nothing mine. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/750620AR.LA.htm

</small><small></small>

[Beggar]

 

Here's the problem, Bhaktivedanta Archives considers, "Prabhupada's books".

But nobody is forced to accept below - in this world, like Beggar, everyone has the freedom to reject such statements.

Causelessmercy - Arrival Conversation - Los Angeles, June 20, 1975

Well, it is not my book; it is Kṛṣṇa's book. I am trying my best to present it as it is. That's all. That much you can say my, but there is nothing mine. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/750620AR.LA.htm

</small>

Honestly, I don't understand your response.