Who is greater Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva

[suchandra]

 

Honestly, I don't understand your response.

 

When Prabhupada says, "Well, it is not my book; it is Kṛṣṇa's book.", you're saying, I don't understand this? Mhmm, difficult case of disorientation, rarely had this before. May be an exorcist could help in this case by redefining your conception of reality?

[Beggar]

 

When Prabhupada says, "Well, it is not my book; it is Kṛṣṇa's book.",..

Well theres clearly different ways to see this. Does he mean that Krsna is directly dictating to Prabhupada what to write? Is Krsna dictating what to write through the parampara line of commentators who came before Sri Prabhupdada? Are we to see it as just his humilty but really that although he says it's not his book, it really is? And how do you understand this? And why did you post it? How do you think that it relates to what I recently wrote on this thread?

[Kulapavana]

 

The dvaita website has posted a page describing the deviations of Gaudiya Vaishnavism from the traditional view. Some of them are,

1. Traditional branches of Vaishnavism rely on a broad range of scriptures. But Gaudiya Vaishnavas rely fully on the Bhagavatam. As these texts can be interpreted differently, lack support from other valid scriptures has resulted in misinterpretation by Gaudiya Vaishnavas.

2. Only Gaudiya Vaishnavas do not view Krishna as an avatar.

3. Worship of Radha as a deity.

4. Seeing Chaitanya as an avatar of Vishnu

 

 

All of these points have both some merit and some inaccuracy in them. Nimbarkas are very similar in their doctrine. Gaudiya Vaishnavism has some strong Tantra infuences and the purely Vedic Vaishnava lines like the Madhvas or Sri Vaishnavas often object to that approach.

[suchandra]

 

Well theres clearly different ways to see this. Does he mean that Krsna is directly dictating to Prabhupada what to write? Is Krsna dictating what to write through the parampara line of commentators who came before Sri Prabhupdada? Are we to see it as just his humilty but really that although he says it's not his book, it really is? And how do you understand this? And why did you post it? How do you think that it relates to what I recently wrote on this thread?

Thanks Beggar for asking these important questions, although you're not a follower of A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.

For those who're followers:

 

Srila Prabhupada is here! By reading his books, listening to his lectures, watching his films, reading stories about him, one can become Krishna conscious instantly. He is here instantly.

 

Everything Srila Prabhupada did when he was physically present was for Krishna. He did everything perfectly. All that he teaches is perfectly from Krishna’s lips.

 

There is no one that can do what Srila Prabhupada did. This is the first time in history that someone from India came to the West and successfully established worship of the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna.

 

For those who're not followers of Srila Prabhupada, like Beggar prabhu, you can believe what you like. There's no "must" that you have to believe anything. When Prabhupada says, "these are directly Krishna's words", you can say, I don't accept this, I don't believe this. Prabhupada himself always taught, that the living entity, jiva-tattva has free will and can basically do what he wants.

 

Your next question, if bringing up that Prabhupada says, " Well, it is not my book; it is Kṛṣṇa's book," if this is off topic and offending the thread? This the moderators of the forum can decide. They have the overview and the general idea how to properly run this forum. I'm only an insignificant member, not so important as you think. But again thanks for sorting me out and asking these questions, you're welcome!

[Beggar]

 

Thanks Beggar for asking these important questions, although you're not a follower of A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.

 

How do you define being a follower of A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada? What does it mean to be a follower of any bonafide guru?

 

 

For those who're followers:

Srila Prabhupada is here! By reading his books, listening to his lectures, watching his films, reading stories about him, one can become Krishna conscious instantly. He is here instantly.

It appears that you are saying that this experience is based on faith. But what do you mean that one can become Krishna conscious instantly?

Do you mean that he can bless one with his mercy. Do you believe that you are already Krishna conscious?

 

 

Everything Srila Prabhupada did when he was physically present was for Krishna. He did everything perfectly. All that he teaches is perfectly from Krishna’s lips.

 

This goes to one of my previous questions, do you believe that Krsna was like a puppeter and ventriloquist and was making Srila Prabhupada move and talk. Or does by saying that Krsna really wrote his books, did he mean that Krsna is coming through the guru paramapara and that he was perfectly connected by the intensity of his surrender to his guru and his line?

 

 

There is no one that can do what Srila Prabhupada did. This is the first time in history that someone from India came to the West and successfully established worship of the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna.

 

For those who're not followers of Srila Prabhupada, like Beggar prabhu, you can believe what you like. There's no "must" that you have to believe anything. When Prabhupada says, "these are directly Krishna's words", you can say, I don't accept this, I don't believe this. Prabhupada himself always taught, that the living entity, jiva-tattva has free will and can basically do what he wants.

 

Whether I am personally a follower or not, do not consider that when pondering this: Do you believe that other devotees in the disciplic lines coming from Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers can also appreciate his unique contribution or are they somehow barred? Would you like those in these lines to appreciate him or would you like to restrict it to a particular formal consideration?

 

 

Your next question, if bringing up that Prabhupada says, " Well, it is not my book; it is Kṛṣṇa's book," if this is off topic and offending the thread? This the moderators of the forum can decide. They have the overview and the general idea how to properly run this forum. I'm only an insignificant member, not so important as you think. But again thanks for sorting me out and asking these questions, you're welcome!

 

You statements in the above paragraph are confusing to me. I really am not sure what you are driving at exactly or really why you are saying what your saying. You're certainly not answering my question about Prabhupada's humility.

[suchandra]

 

You statements in the above paragraph are confusing to me. I

 

Then don't bother. Why do you want to understand everything?

Internet forums are limited although we tend to always want to have everything in full.

Important is anyway what Prabhupada is saying, hopefully this is clear and not confusing:

 

Prabhupāda: Well, it is not my book; it is Krishna’s book. I am trying my best to present it as it is. That’s all. That much you can say my, but there is nothing mine.

When they will read, then they will get. Nowadays in the Sixth Canto, Fourth Chapter, the soul and how the soul is covered, that is being described wonderfully. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. It is written by the most learned Vyāsadeva, vidvāṁs, and sātvata-saṁhitām. How merciful he was. He is still living, Vyāsadeva. He is still existing.

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje lokasya ajānataḥ vidvāṁś cakre sātvata…

Do you remember this verse? It is in the First Canto. Anartha. The soul has been embarrassed, the unnecessary things. Just like a man is within the huge garbage. What is his position? If… You have got your garbage car, so within that, if a man is pushed…

 

 

 

Arrival Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Los Angeles, June 20, 1975

[Beggar]

 

Prabhupāda: Well, it is not my book; it is Krishna’s book. I am trying my best to present it as it is. That’s all. That much you can say my, but there is nothing mine.

When they will read, then they will get. Nowadays in the Sixth Canto, Fourth Chapter, the soul and how the soul is covered, that is being described wonderfully. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. It is written by the most learned Vyāsadeva, vidvāṁs, and sātvata-saṁhitām. How merciful he was. He is still living, Vyāsadeva. He is still existing.

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje lokasya ajānataḥ vidvāṁś cakre sātvata…

Do you remember this verse? It is in the First Canto. Anartha. The soul has been embarrassed, the unnecessary things. Just like a man is within the huge garbage. What is his position? If… You have got your garbage car, so within that, if a man is pushed…

Arrival Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Los Angeles, June 20, 1975

Very beautiful, Prabhupada is taking no credit, he also is like Vyasadeva, "How merciful he was", How merciful is the asraya tattva of the Lord.

[Vigraha]

 

Maha-Vishnu and Shiva are Vishnu-tattva. Maha-Vishnu created the mahat-tattva and Lord Shiva is his greatest devotee - It's all lila, Krishna manifesting in different forms, except for Brahma who is jiva-tattva.

[Bishadi]

Shivaduda,

Thank you for the material to think on.

 

The three forces (embodied by Brahma Vishnu and Shiva) are primeiveal forces of cosmic energy which involve the creation, the maintainence and the destruction...

The ongoing process is a endless one and all three are "all powerful" in their own sense... and creation cant be complete without any one of the three.

Mass, energy, time with personality…… a unique way to observe the combination; to the physical attributes of existence

if a vehicle has three wheels it is obvious that only those who respect and accept each of the three wheels can drive the vehicle well...

so also anyone seeking true knowledge cant find it unless he respects and values every aspect of the eternal existance.

So as knowledge lives its life, often to build a new structure means tearing down the old back to the foundation; and of course recycle the material.

 

Where there is no decay there is no progress either...

if u were 10 meters away from your ishtadevata today even after a million years you would not be an inch closer...

not many would want to be a part of such a existance... even if it existed.

Such as the evolution of knowledge; to continue.

we seriously should think if a plane where there is no fear of destruction and no one is capable of making anything new or thinking a new thought.. can be called "enervating" ... many would prefer a "perverted reflection" where a shankaracharya and a prabhupada are born and can come up with their new individual and unique enlightning thought processes.

many would risk a death to get a chance to improve the meaning of life <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 12pt; HEIGHT: 12pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href="http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/images/smilies/smile.gif" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\TODDBI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>

ideas could be like the colors of a rainbow, each combination make a new shade.

To combine the wisdom of the fathers, contributors and the very guru that shares peace in his gifts to you; to assemble and convey the ‘good’ of this knowledge is a life greater than physical death

"enervating" ……. A creation.

[Dark Warrior]

 

All of these points have both some merit and some inaccuracy in them. Nimbarkas are very similar in their doctrine. Gaudiya Vaishnavism has some strong Tantra infuences and the purely Vedic Vaishnava lines like the Madhvas or Sri Vaishnavas often object to that approach.

 

The Nimbarka, Vallabha and Gaudiya Sampradayas are rasikas, and base their doctrine on love of Krishna (and authority of Bhagavatam). The other two are more traditional in their approach, giving the Prasthna Trayam great authority, and using it to interpret texts like the Bhagavatam.

 

Its OK to consider Vishnu as the avatar of Krishna if you do not differentiate between the two in terms of powers/attributes. And as for Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, its normal for every sampradaya to glorify their guru (even Upanishads recommend it).

 

But I do admit, considering Rama and Narasimha to be 'plenary portions' of Sri Chaitanya is a bit much!!