Please dont mock anyones belief

[realist31]

All along i have been asking questions and you guys have been giving answers based on your intrepreation of epics,puranas and ancient books.That is well and good,but some of you were upset at me for asking proof for them,well you claimed faith is blind and no one can give proof of GOD unless he comes in person,very true.And you guys asked me why i am here asking questions if i dont believe in GOD or expect proof which would be provided in this aspect.Again its true.So i agree i shouldnt make a mockery of anyones faith or ask for proof.

 

But on the other hand i have noticed every 1 posting out of 3 seems to be a mockery of someone elses faith,lets say for example threads like "Shiva is a Demi God" Or "Sathya Sai Baba is not GOD" etc....and also judging religious gurus like Dalai lama,now who are you all to call Lord Shiva a demi god if you dont have proof that Krishna is supreme?Who are you all to judge Dalai Lama when your guru Prabupada himself might have flaws?

 

A Christian believes other than his beliefs people with other belief is going to hell

A muslim believes the same

A shaivaite thinks his god is superior

A Vaishnavaite thinks his god is the only god and all others are demi gods

 

When cornered and asked proof all of the above people say "Dont mock our beliefs mind your business"

 

Same way it would be better off if you all follow the same rule and not judge gurus or gods or demigods and start threads to ascertain someones superiority.

 

Faith is a good tool,i agree,having faith does give people hope,but mocking the others faith proves you are a hypocrite.

 

If you show me Krishna lifting the mountain in his fingers then you can claim he exists.

 

If someone shows me Lord Shiva sittiing in the mountain then you can claim he exists.

 

Otherwise its only right to let people stick to their beliefs and not mock anyone or judge anyone and say only so and so god can lead you to bliss

[Beggar]

 

Otherwise its only right to let people stick to their beliefs

Where do their beliefs come from in the first place?

 

 

and not mock anyone or judge anyone

Why equate mocking and judging? Also are you not judging those persons that you see are judging?

 

 

and say only so and so god can lead you to bliss

Do you actually believe in bliss? If so, how do you define this term?

By using the name realist31 aren't you identifying yourself as a realist and therefore implying that others such as those who have faith in forms of Vaisnavism, Saivism and so on, are out of touch with reality. That is quite a judgment and perhaps an attempt to mock such beliefs! It seems like you are mired deeply in self deception.

[Kulapavana]

 

But on the other hand i have noticed every 1 posting out of 3 seems to be a mockery of someone elses faith,lets say for example threads like "Shiva is a Demi God" Or "Sathya Sai Baba is not GOD" etc....and also judging religious gurus like Dalai lama,now who are you all to call Lord Shiva a demi god if you dont have proof that Krishna is supreme?Who are you all to judge Dalai Lama when your guru Prabupada himself might have flaws?

 

You may criticize something without mocking it. Mockery and criticism are two different things.

 

Judging things is usually unavoidable. This is what we all do, including you too. Why should I accept Sai Baba as god just so that I do not criticize his followers? That is total nonsense.

 

But criticism should be constructive and based on shastra, reason and logic.

 

Mockery is something else entirely. It is just deriding others for having beliefs which are different than ours. Such attitude should be avoided.

[theist]

The point of not mocking others beliefs is valid I believe. Differences can be handled philosophically. Not that we should shy away from discussing differences but our approach should be more gentle.

 

Now some are fit for mocking. Those that come insisting they are God incarnate and exploit others for sex ,money and fame for example are fair game in my book.

 

For the most part however I can see the truth of realist's basic point and will try to improve myself in this area.

[Shivaduta]

If ever I do mock someones belief ...

let it be mine alone...

for in mocking and questioning my own belief i emerge stronger...

and the conviction of my belief grows.

and if the conviction falters... i will know that it is time i left my belief and took on another which wouldnt falter under fire....

[suchandra]

 

The point of not mocking others beliefs is valid I believe.

But who is actually doing this in public, mocking others beliefs? Instead we find fair discussions of mega church pastor Ted Haggard and figure head of the global atheist movement Richard Dawkins.

 

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uokV7UdGW_s&hl=en&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfebd01" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425">

[Amlesh]

If we go deep in the definition of faith, the words surrounding its definition is belief.

 

It leaves a margin for the following terms contradiction, unsupported thesis and version issues to crop up.

 

The very next term that comes with that is doubt, that's why many people sometimes sees others faith better than theirs and then only that we often get to hear "change of faith".

 

If a Vaishnava is still fighting about faith issues and still cannot see the links between all religions then the message of Gita is still not clear to him.

 

What a Vaishnava inculcates is Knowledge, the Knowledge that clears all doubts. And from knowledge does Bhakti comes. Bhakti means applying all knowledge acquired in the service of God.

 

However, we do discriminate and why we do it Theist has already said it remarkably.

[cbrahma]

Sometimes beliefs are so 'out there' so foolish, it's difficult not to ridicule them. Prabhupada did not mince words when criticizing the material scientists and/or the impersonalists. He often called them 'mudha' - ass.

[rohini108]

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=12 width=523 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top height=1045>This was e-mailed to me this morning. Thought it might fit in with this thread.

 

 

One day, Gadadhara Pandit das and I took advantage of being in New York to go shopping for sound equipment for my festival tour in Poland. After

several hours I noticed it was getting late.

 

"It's almost five PM," I said. "If we're going to make it back to the temple

for the program tonight we'll have to hurry. Let's take a taxi."

 

As we stood on a street corner trying to hail a taxi, I turned to Gadadhara,

"I have a few questions about New York for my next diary chapter," I said.

"A cab driver might be a good person to ask."

 

"Sounds like a great idea," he said, "but I wouldn't expect more than a

description of some tourist spots."

 

After twenty minutes, we were about to give up when suddenly a Yellow Cab swerved through the traffic and came to a screeching halt directly in front of us.

 

The driver looked out through the window. "Where you guys wanna go?" he said in a thick New York accent.

 

"26 Second Avenue," Gadadhara yelled above the traffic.

 

We were barely inside when the cab sped away from the curb and merged into the traffic. The driver looked at us in his rearview mirror. "Nobody wanted to pick you guys up," he said.

 

He turned his head around to look directly at us. "People are too

judgmental," he continued. "We have to respect others. That's what I say. I mean, you guys are dressed different, but that don't mean you ain't good

people. You know what I mean?"

 

"Yes, sir," I said nervously, "but don't you think you should keep your eyes

on the road?"

 

"The car - it drives itself," he laughed. "You just ask it to turn. That's

what one of my buddies said. It got into that book. What's it called?"

 

He turned his eyes back to the road. "Oh yeah," he said. "Taxi Driver

Wisdom. Ever read that one?"

 

"No, sir," I replied. "I can't say that I have."

 

"You ain't read that?" he said. "It's my favorite book."

 

He paused. "You live around here?" he asked.

 

"No," I replied. "I'm always on the move. I'm going to England in a couple

of weeks."

 

"England," he said. "That was called Britannia. Then the Jewish tribes came

in and they were Yiddish and they used a lot of 'ish' so they called them

British."

 

Gadadhara and I looked at each other.

 

"That's another one from the book," he said with a laugh. "I came here from

Pakistan 20 years ago, driving a cab from day one. I saw some people

laughing at you guys standing on the street corner. Let me tell you what the problem is with this city. People are too materialistic, that's all."

 

I decided to try for the answers I needed for the diary chapter. "Can I ask

you a few questions?" I said.

 

"Sure," he said, "but first I want to say that I know you guys. I've seen

you singing on the streets. You're nice to everybody. You don't pick on no

one. And I see bad stuff everyday. I mean the other day a guy was shot dead right in front of my cab. What's happening to this world?"

 

He paused for a moment.

 

"When are people gonna start learning tolerance and love?" he said

emotionally.

 

I started to say something, but he continued. "I'll tell you," he said.

"It's when people start becoming religious. Religion is the only thing we

got in common. I mean, we're all God's children. Ain't that right?"

 

Before I could answer he continued. "But I have to confess to you guys," he said. "I'm not a very good Muslim. I mean I don't bow down five times a day and I don't go to the mosque regularly. I'm really sorry about that."

 

"But you seem to be very pious ..." I said.

 

"And sometimes I use bad words," he interrupted. "But I promise I won't use

bad language in front of you guys. My mullah once told me that God gives and forgives. But us? We get and forget."

 

Just at that moment a police car pulled alongside us in the next lane. Our

driver slowed down and pulled in behind the police car.

 

"Why did you do that?" I asked.

 

"Let me tell you, Mister," he said, "it's always better to be behind a

police car. Omar, my friend, said that. That's some down-to-earth

philosophy, ain't it?"

 

"Very much so," I replied. "Now, I'd like to ask ..."

 

He interrupted again. "You remember when the Taliban tore down the big

statues of Buddha in Afghanistan a few years ago?" he said.

 

"Yes, of course I remember that," I replied.

 

"Well, I was crying when I saw the pictures," he said. "You gotta have

respect for all the religions. All of them worship the same God. Slam one,

you slam your own. You know what I mean?"

 

"Yes, I do," I said. "And I wish more people ..."

 

"My philosophy is that man is here to do good for others," he continued.

"And the best way you can help another man is to encourage him to follow his religion. It makes no sense to condemn his religion. And let me tell you

what the cause of all the problems in the world is. You wanna know?"

 

"Yes, sir," I replied trying to be patient. "I'd like to know."

 

"I learned it driving this cab all those years," he said. "The problem is

that people are too materialistic. And what's worse is that they bring

materialism into religion. They go to the mosque, the church, or the temple

and ask God for material things. Mister, there's only one thing for which

you should ask God. You know what that is?"

 

Surprised by his realizations, I was speechless.

 

"Service," he said. "We should ask only for service. We were created by God

to serve Him. Not the other way around. That's natural. And if you do things naturally you'll be happy. Do I have it right?"

 

"You hit the nail on the head," I said, reflecting on how his words echoed

Rupa Goswami's definition of pure devotional service.

 

"I learned it all in a taxi," he repeated with a smile as he looked over his

shoulder at us again.

 

"Look out for that truck!" I yelled.

 

He turned around quickly and deftly avoided the vehicle.

 

"I see more of what's going on around me because I'm not concerned with

finding a parking place," he said with a laugh. "That would be in the book

too."

 

We weaved in and out of traffic for some time and then he spoke up again.

 

"Religion is all messed up these days," he said. "People are worshiping God

for the wrong reasons. That's why a lot of people are giving up on religion.

One of my best friends, Hafiz, became an atheist last year. I mean what do

we have in common anymore? One day he said, 'Prove to me there's a God.' I put him in the back of my taxi and sat there with him. I told him, 'It's a

question of faith, Hafiz,'

 

"He replied, 'I don't believe in faith.'

 

"I said, 'You got faith the Atlantic Ocean's not gonna overflow, right? You

got faith them stars in the sky ain't gonna fall down and smash New York

City, don't you? Yes, you do. And you know what? Somebody's controlling all that. And that somebody is God. It's not all happening by chance.'

 

"Hafiz became an agnostic after that. He started believing that 'something

is out there.'

 

"But you guys, you're helping people become religious all the time. That's

why I like you. You live for others. I live for myself, just driving this

taxi. I know that Allah is more pleased with you than me. You're out in the

rain and snow, singing for Him. I've seen you. And that's why I picked you

guys up."

 

"Sir," said Gadadhara, "that's our temple, just over there."

 

"Oh it's beautiful," he said, "just beautiful."

 

As we pulled up to the curb, the driver turned around. "Hey fellas," he

said, "this one's on me. I really enjoyed our conversation."

 

"Thank you so much," I said. "That's very kind of you."

 

"Conversation?" Gadadhara whispered as he gathered his things. "You hardly

got a word in."

 

The driver quickly jumped out of the taxi and raced around to my side of the cab. As he opened the door he bowed slightly from the waist.

 

"The fare is 16 bucks," he said. "But don't worry about it. New York needs

more guys like you."

 

As I got out of the cab he stepped forward and suddenly hugged me. Then he stood back.

 

"I just have one request for you guys," he said. "Please pray for me. Okay?

And get that book that I was telling you about."

 

"Will do," I said as he got back into the taxi. "And, hey, you pray for us

too."

 

"Now that's what folks should do," he said, his voice trailing off as he

drove away. "Religion is supposed to bring people together, not tear them

apart. My friend Omar once said ..."

 

Within a few seconds his taxi joined the fast-moving traffic. As we walked

to the temple, Gadadhara laughed. "You never did get to ask your questions, did you?" he said.

 

I smiled. "Doesn't matter," I said. "Even without the questions, I learned

more about New York than I would have thought possible. We really connected with that taxi driver. He was a great guy."

 

The next day I went out and bought the book. I found the following passage in it:

 

"If there is understanding, there is love. If there is no understanding,

there is only an endless stream of questions."

 

[Taxi Driver Wisdom, Risa Mickenburg, Chronical Books, 1996]

 

 

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[theist]

Cool story. Made me think Jayananada must be the patron saint of taxi drivers. More seriously it shows One God lives in the heart of all. It is a sure thing that that one same God is not dependent on any one religion to get His message across to whoever He wants to enlighten.

[rohini108]

 

Cool story. Made me think Jayananada must be the patron saint of taxi drivers. More seriously it shows One God lives in the heart of all. It is a sure thing that that one same God is not dependent on any one religion to get His message across to whoever He wants to enlighten.

 

Thanks for remembering that Jayananda was at one time a taxi driver. I had forgotten. When I went to the NYC temple for the fist time in 1976 Jayananda let me stay with him in his room for a number of days. We would talk a little bit and then fall asleep. Then I asked him to cut all my hair off and he left me the super-long sika. He told me that the longer, the more auspicious. But right before he did that, he played the most amazing trick on me. But right, "patron saint of NYC taxi cab drivers."