When all are doing wrong, be the first to do right or just keep silent. Yes???

[krsna]

Your life may be the only Bible some people read. ~

Author Unknown

 

C'mon be like Thakura Haridas, they only look at him and they chant Hare Krsna spontaneously.

Do not repeat anything you will not sign your name to. ~Author Unknown

 

C'mon be real, genuine ; stop posing, being a pretender , or a con-artist in the guise of a Vaisnava.

[krsna]

 

I recall reading Prabhupada during his last years once said or wrote "demons have entered the Krishna consciousness movement".

 

Perhaps he was helpless at that point to do something about it. But since he communicated this discovery, why did this not serve as a wakeup call for others?

 

Cheers

 

I am intolerant, supremacist, a bully and violent. I am highly inflammable and can explode if I am not treated preferentially and with respect. At the same time, I abuse others and violate the rights of people of other faiths. This makes me a demon.

 

Now the real miracle would be to turn me into a devotee. The guru can perform such a miracle; I've simply have to give him my heart so that he can change me!

[bhaktajan]

 

...Prabhupada had..."fatherly affection bias"...in the purifying nature of KC process...there were very ominous signs in 1975-77...he was helpless at that point...he was very much in complete control...he issued an order...(unless they have deviated) that ... GBCs are to be chosen by...GBC members. In this way the status quo was preserved.

 

You poor poor man, how you have suffered.

 

Just see how you cannot think coherently.

 

All because you can't be a MONK!

 

If you want to pray somewhere and do your missionary work you should go do it your self.

 

Nobody has ever restrained you from your monastic path. No they really have not my friend.

 

But we all pine for being a recluse and being a reknowned recluse is even better.

 

One day we can slip into obscurity of a back woods samadhi and then recall the Passion of Kulapavana.

 

[tackleberry]

 

You poor poor man, how you have suffered.

 

Just see how you cannot think coherently.

 

All because you can't be a MONK!

 

If you want to pray somewhere and do your missionary work you should go do it your self.

 

Nobody has ever restrained you from your monastic path. No they really have not my friend.

 

But we all pine for being a recluse and being a reknowned recluse is even better.

 

One day we can slip into obscurity of a back woods samadhi and then recall the Passion of Kulapavana.

 

 

 

Bhakta Jan, I think you should be a little more sensitive and compassionate. Your attitude sucks, and most of the time, it's not even clear what you're trying to say.

[bhaktajan]

"Bhakta Jan, I think you should be a little more sensitive and compassionate. Your attitude sucks, and most of the time, it's not even clear what you're trying to say."

 

BUT THIS TIME IT"S CLEAR--IF THE KITCHEN IS TOO HOT... Get you own kitchen.

 

Kulapavana is lamenting for his lost youth and lost dream of leading a world revolution--but actually this chap is pining for a life of prayer and solitude --and he is NOT aware of this!

 

He waxes about living in a monastic order that asked him to leave?

 

Just go pray.

 

You can't understand my prose? Listen here punky-brewster. If I printed out Kulapavana dirty laundry and sought out real life devotees to read it to--I would be told the same thing you say about me above, by every devotee. You know why? Because it's "mental". Sounds like me? If my writtings are 'mental'--then count your self an expert in decerning "mental" babbling.

 

Now your duties include defending monks with out a cause?

 

OK OK I surrender--NOT!

 

battling babbling babes and boobs when I can,

Bhaktajan

 

I'm soo gonna give Kulapavana "nooggies" if ever I could . . .

[cbrahma]

 

I think Prabhupada had so much "fatherly affection bias" for his disciples and so much faith in the purifying nature of KC process that he was not acting on such observations.

 

In the hindsight, there were very ominous signs in 1975-77 that the movement is in trouble yet no major structural reforms were ordered by Prabhupada. I disagree that he was helpless at that point - he was very much in complete control, and if he ordered for changes to be implemented, they would have been carried out. Instead he issued an order that current GBC's are to hold their position for life (unless they have deviated) and that new GBCs are to be chosen by the existing GBC members. In this way the status quo was preserved.

Kula. once again is mirepresenting the facts of ISKCON history and Prabhupada whose authority and credibility he therefore subtly undermines.

 

 

DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS, INCORPORATED FOUNDER-ACHARYA: HIS DIVINE GRACE A. C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT

 

•  

  The GBC oversees all operations and management of ISKCON, as it receives direction from Srila Prabhupada and His Divine Grace has the final approval in all matters.

  
  

•  

  His Divine Grace will select the initial 12 members of the GBC. In the succeeding years the GBC will be elected by a vote of all Temple presidents who will vote for 8 from a ballot of all Temple presidents, which may also include any secretary who is in charge of a Temple. Those 8 with the greatest number of votes will be members for the next term of GBC. Srila Prabhupada will choose to retain four commissioners. In the event of Srila Prabhupada's absence, the retiring members will decide which four will remain.

  
  

•  

  The commissioners will serve for a period of 3 years, and they may be re-elected at the end of this period.

  
  

•  

  The chairman is elected by the GBC for each meeting. He has no veto power, but in even of a vote tie, his vote will decide. The same will apply for votes cast by mail between regular meetings.

  
  

•  

  Throughout the year, each of the commissioners will stay with His Divine Grace for one month at a time and keep the other commissioners informed of His Divine Grace's instructions.

  
  

•  

  The primary objective of the GBC is to organize the opening of new Temples and to maintain the established Temples.

  
  

•  

  Advice will be given by the GBC in cases of real property purchases, which will be in the name of ISKCON, INC. (Trucks or other vehicles will be purchased in the name of the local president).

  
  

•  

  Removal of a Temple president by the GBC requires support by the local Temple members.

  
  

•  

  The GBC has no jurisdiction in the publication of manuscripts, which will be handled by a separate committee; profits to be returned to Srila Prabhupada."

  
  

 

 

So far my books are concerned, I am setting up a different body of management known as the BHAKTIVEDANTA BOOK TRUST. The trustees of this body are also members of the GBC, but their function is not dependent on the GBC.

ISKCON Press was created for the exclusive publication of my books and literatures and should be continued in that way.

During my absence no one shall live in my apartment.

ACB

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Witnessed by:

Date July 28th 1970 (Robert F. Corens)

Rupanuga das Adhikary (William R. Ehrlichman)

Bhagavan das Adhikary (Kelly Gifford Smith)

Karandhar das Adhikary Date July 28th, 1970 At the World Head Quarters

3764, Watseka Avenue Los Angeles, California 90034

 

 

[Kulapavana]

 

Kulapavana is lamenting for his lost youth and lost dream of leading a world revolution--but actually this chap is pining for a life of pray and solitude --and he is NOT aware of this!

 

He waxes about living in a monastic order that ask him to leave?

 

 

When one speaks from the heart on public forums, one accepts a risk of being ridiculed, criticized, misunderstood, and so on. I have been writing here long enough to know that.

 

I do not really care what your take is on most things you write about, because very little of what you write makes any sense to me. Nor do I care about what your take is on me as a person, or as a devotee. There are people on this forum whose opinion I deeply respect and value because throug their posts I can see what kind of people they are. And I do take their criticism to heart.

 

As to the revolution: It has only just begun, and I am glad I'm still taking part in it, with all guns blazing. I am not a general in this revolution, just a front line machine-gunner.

 

[bhaktajan]

YEAH YEAH YEAH YADA YADA YADA!

 

This is why "WE" and all us other tax paying citizen don't live in the temple--because there are others who will berate our babblings right or wrong.

 

Yeah. But you know the "nooggies" will be there for you when you get home my brother.

[Kulapavana]

 

Kula. once again is mirepresenting the facts of ISKCON history and Prabhupada whose authority and credibility he therefore subtly undermines.

 

and once again you show your ignorance of the FACTS:

 

 

 

In 1977, Srila Prabhupada stated that those already GBC should remain for life:

 

Satsvarupa: So our first question is about the GBC members. We want to know how long should they remain in office?

Prabhupada: They should remain for good.

Tamala Krsna: They should remain for good.

Prabhupada: Selected men are chosen, so they cannot be changed. (Room Conversation, May 28th, 1977)

 

 

[theist]

 

Your life may be the only Bible some people read. ~

Author Unknown

 

C'mon be like Thakura Haridas, they only look at him and they chant Hare Krsna spontaneously.

Do not repeat anything you will not sign your name to. ~Author Unknown

 

C'mon be real, genuine ; stop posing, being a pretender , or a con-artist in the guise of a Vaisnava.

 

Ouch! That hits home.

[theist]

 

"I think Prabhupada...."

 

When you hear a sentence begin with these three words it's time to tune out quickly.

[bhaktajan]

My mother is goofy sometimes [yeah, I know, you're not my mum]

 

BUT DUDE!

YOUR PHOTO SHOWS A NAZI--BEHIND WHICH YOU ARE SYMBOLICALLY STANDING.

 

OY vey!

 

Start reading all Prabhupada's books AGAIN, and see me in 2 to 3 decades. It's good to start back at the basics all over again--it makes everything seem fresh. Maybe you'll find a wife too.

[Tirisilex]

Krsna I agree with you in part.. The last time I was in a Mental Hospital the Doctors, Nurses and Therapists.. Kept trying to tell me I was wrong and that I was disturbing other patients.. So I mostly kept my mouth shut and tried using notes to some people and good example for others.. For example there was a young girl there next door to me and I'm not sure why she was there I think they thought she was Bipolar.. Which means To feel extremely high and on top of the world and then feeling very low and depressed it fluctuates from time to time. The movie Mr. Jones shows you the problems of Bipolar Disorder.

So I kept sending her good thoughts (not Psychicaly).. That she was doing well.. I saw her coloring a picture and I told her it reminded me of a mandala..

I kept encouraging her and I showed her that I can't read minds by using a deck of cards. She was the first one released on my hallway.. There was a suicide patient way down at the end of the hallway.. I kept thinking about his suffering and how to improve his behavior.. The Doctors wanted him to cover up his scars from his suicidal / Mascicistic behavior so they gave him small gauzz and medical tape and a short sleeve shirt so people could still see that he cut himself up.. So they took the gauzz and medical tape but he still had the short sleeve shirt on so they everyone saw his scars... So I thought positively how one person was allowed to wear clothes that looked fine but there were others that were not allowed to wear good clothes. So I thought about this every now and then and they finaly allowed him to wear a sweat shirt. I kept telling them what kind of diet I prefer but they kept giving me meat and sweats.. This guy sat in the same room as me a few times and I knew he ate meat so when I was giving meat I gave it to him and he started to get better and became more respectful. There was a guy who was a terrible slob and I kept cleaning up after myself around him and when I saw him do something slobby I would shortly think to myself "He's being a slob" and actualy clean after him.. shortly like a day or so he was cleaning up everything he could find. Doors windows and so forth..

I helped so many people in that Hospital so I cant tell you everything.

 

Reamining silent is actualy impossible because your mind is active and your body is active.. Writing small notes to certain people.. Keeping your mouth shut is'nt really keeping silent..

 

I agree with Vigraha when he spoke about Srila Prabhupad.. First he spoke of a man who was a student of Prabhu and went around saying "Prahbhu Surrender" what he was saying was not to surrender to Prabhu but for Prabhu to surrender to truth.. And alot of people hated him for saying it (Thus the Imfamous) because Prabhu was a hypocrite if you reread Vigraha's story..

 

I was reading Bhaktajans post and I think he's pretty intelligent for a kid. I saw he wants a poster on Sanskrit. I don't know if he'll read this post or not.. But It's easy for him to make his own poster by using the Bhagavad Gita As it is.. It teaches alot of sanskrit.. The Alphebet is at the back of the book all he needs to do is scan it and make it big enough to fit on the size printer he has and thats his poster he doesnt need a big one.. and the terms words and definitions are at the beginning of every verse and he's a kid so he can learn it better if he just puts it to practice.

[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by tackleberry . . . Your attitude sucks, and most of the time, it's not even clear what you're trying to say.

 

Dear tackleberry,

What-ho! Top-hole. Bally Jerry, pranged his kite right in the how's-your-father; hairy blighter, dicky-birded, feathered back on his sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harpers and caught his can in the Bertie.

 

Also, Bunch of monkeys on the ceiling, tackleberry ! Grab your egg-and-fours and let's get the bacon delivered!

[cbrahma]

 

and once again you show your ignorance of the FACTS:

 

 

 

In 1977, Srila Prabhupada stated that those already GBC should remain for life:

 

 

 

 

Satsvarupa: So our first question is about the GBC members. We want to know how long should they remain in office?

Prabhupada: They should remain for good.

Tamala Krsna: They should remain for good.

Prabhupada: Selected men are chosen, so they cannot be changed. (Room Conversation, May 28th, 1977)

 

 

A partial truth is worse than a lie. You cling as does the GBC to one isolated instance.

 

 

 

Regarding the quote you provided, it is one, single, isolated quote, from last meeting with GBC, after GBCs 7 years refused to follow Srila Prabhupada's guidance regarding DOM. Let me show you, how devotees in general see this. Srila Prabhupada initiated DOM in 1970, waited 3 years for first elections, which never happened, then in 1974 reinforced DOM, again waited 3 years for its implementation, then he left this world. He tried for 7 years to establish DOM, then he gave it up, and left. This is widespread current public opinion. I will not force any conclusions at this point, please just observe below numerical facts.

Statistics is as follows:

1. in support of DOM:

 

• - legal document from 1970, named as DOM.
  - legal document from 1974, ammendment, labeled TOPMOST URGENCY
  - letter to Mukunda, 29 September, 1974
  - letter to Rupanuga, 7 November, 1974
  - letter to Rupanuga, 8 November, 1974

 

2. in support of remaining for good, or until deviated:

 

• - room conversation, May 28, 1977

As you can see, it is 5 to one. There may be more quotes for first case, I just searched Vedabase for direct, exact quotes. Anyone, who has Vedabase, can do this in a second. There may be more quotes for second case, but GBC was unable to provide more as of today.

 

[cbrahma]

 

Originally Posted by tackleberry . . . Your attitude sucks, and most of the time, it's not even clear what you're trying to say.

 

Dear tackleberry,

What-ho! Top-hole. Bally Jerry, pranged his kite right in the how's-your-father; hairy blighter, dicky-birded, feathered back on his sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harpers and caught his can in the Bertie.

 

Also, Bunch of monkeys on the ceiling, tackleberry ! Grab your egg-and-fours and let's get the bacon delivered!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Kulapavana]

 

A partial truth is worse than a lie. You cling as does the GBC to one isolated instance.

 

I told you before: I'm all for the DOM system. Problem is that Prabhupada never fully implemented it and his LATER instructions (like the one I quoted) go against it.

[cbrahma]

 

I told you before: I'm all for the DOM system. Problem is that Prabhupada never fully implemented it and his LATER instructions (like the one I quoted) go against it.

This is a fragment of an instruction out of context. The obvious result of obstinate non-compliance.

[krsna]

Get a life (of KC)!

 

We make a living by what we get (karma and karma phala, the fruit of our karmic reactions), but we make a life by what we give (Krsna Consciousness, that which we have received from Guru and Gouranga).

[theist]

Yes, this describes the two planes that BR Sidhar Maharaja talks about. The plane of exploitation and the plane of dedication. Which consciousness will we choose? It's one or the other. "No man can serve two master's."

[Beggar]

 

Yes, this describes the two planes that BR Sidhar Maharaja talks about. The plane of exploitation and the plane of dedication. Which consciousness will we choose? It's one or the other. "No man can serve two master's."

Just make sure that you don't retreat to the abscissa and retire to the plane of renunciation.

[theist]

Just make sure that you don't retreat to the abscissa and retire to the plane of renunciation.

Had to look up abscissa and I still don't know what it means. Renunciation is just the flip side of exploitation.

[cbrahma]

 

Had to look up abscissa and I still don't know what it means. Renunciation is just the flip side of exploitation.

Abscissa is the X axis on a rectangular coordinate grid. The analogy is obscure.

[theist]

 

Abscissa is the X axis on a rectangular coordinate grid. The analogy is obscure.

 

Yeah I read that definition and I still don't know what it means. Nor will I get it. Old dog, new trick. Oh well, Just one more thing I won't know when death comes.

[AncientMariner]

 

When all are doing wrong, be the first to do right, or just keep silent.

 

Would that be the most KRSNA Conscious thing to do?

 

What examples of doing right amidst wrong-ful doing people are there?

 

When all are loudly speaking lies silence is deafening...

 

 

I thought I read somewhere in Prabhupadas books that if you are surrounded by psuedodevotees it is best to quietly keep executing devotional service and you can take direct shelter of the acaryas words. My understanding is that Vaisnavas are tolerant as trees. Obviously if you see a real criminal action it is probably best to notify the police and hopefully they can stop it. I often pray for the Kalki-avatar to appear and destroy all the demonic activity on the Earth but I realize that is not going to happen soon.

 

 

I like this prayer from Saint Francis of Assisi:

 

"Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

the courage to change the things I can, and

the wisdom to know the difference."