gay marriage in California

[theist]

 

How so?! It says the rakshasas wanted to attack Brahma Dev and then have sex with him... that'd classify as rape in my book. I'm sorry that I don't interpret a verse talking about homosexual rape at the beginning of a world age as an attack on all homosexuality (since I know it's the only verse you guys have from shastra to back up your anti-homosexual bias).

 

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

Lord Brahmā, approaching the Lord, addressed Him thus: My Lord, please protect me from these sinful demons, who were created by me under Your order. They are infuriated by an appetite for sex and have come to attack me.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahmā. In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life.

 

Please read more carefully. You are clearly ignoring what is being said especially in Prabhupada's purport.

[indulekhadasi]

 

Indulekhadasi, I mean no disrespect to you when I say this (or other Vaishnavas, and Vaishnava gurus who hold this point of view), but this view point of yours is contradicted by Shruti. Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says in VI.4.9 and VI.4.10

 

I know this is perhaps a bit explicit, but it is Shruti, and when we debate concepts like this, it is important that we use Shruti, to determine what is and isn't Vedic.

 

This is fine, but this is for Kamis only.

Vaishnavas would not engage in this practice.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

 

Lord Brahmā, approaching the Lord, addressed Him thus: My Lord, please protect me from these sinful demons, who were created by me under Your order. They are infuriated by an appetite for sex and have come to attack me.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahmā. In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life.

 

Please read more carefully. You are clearly ignoring what is being said especially in Prabhupada's purport.

Prabhupada's commentary on shastra isn't shastra... at least not for me. And... what about the ladies? Got any verses/commentary for them? So far, everything people are quoting is applying only to male homosexuality... what about lesbians? Is it okay to be a gay girl but not a gay guy? If so, why?

[mahak]

Actually, there is a problem with a devotee being in intensive care in the first place. What kind of intensive care do devotees need at the time of death?

 

The reason I came out sorta in favor of gay marriage is because I view religionists as a greater threat than homosexuality. However, I know that death is a great trauma, and say if a GALVA type couple were faced with this, I would want them to be able to associate together at this serious time. I doubt that homosexuality would be going on. There is a difference between homosexuals and homosexuality, just as we should hate the sin, not the sinner. If I, for instance, knew that the late Sudama (SWAMI) was dying of aids alone in a hospital somewhere, I would marry him just to be able to assist him in death the way he assisted me in life. Because the law is clear that only direct family members are allowed into intensive care units and other trauma centers.

 

But a law change could be just as effectual, without disturbing the religionist (but they are disturbed anyway, their solution is a final solution). Equal rights is what I am speaking of, not a perversion of the yajna of marriage. But then again, the yajna of marriage is about twelve different bonafide marriages, two of which are raksasa (kidnap and elope) and gandharva (common law). So heterosexual marriage yajna of these types also would deny human rights of free association where laws are in effect denying access to all but family members. A gay couple should be accepted as family members, not necessitating any idea of marriage.

 

This whole gay activism is directly responsible for bush's second term. I hold the gays equally responsible for all the problems of this constitution busting regime. The gay community is not compassionate or liberal in any sense of the term. They are selfish, arrogant, and are much more unable to appreciate diversity than any republican of right wing christian Ive ever met. Their only goal is to display their utter perversion for all to see, hear, etc. So, while Im not inclined to be a part of any homophobic rhetoric, I have no sympathy for any of their causes. Any favor I may show them is, as described, strictly human rights issues, not allowance of their ridiculous philosophies or justifications of their utter lack of self control or even common decency.

 

mahaksadasa

[RadheyRadhey108]

Where is the shastra that says that all homosexuals are selfish, lack compassion, and are perverted without an ounce of self-control?

[mahak]

scuse me, but you are speaking with people, not dictionaries. Im 57 years old, a graduate of the sixties and remember them quite well. Ive known some righteous gays in my day, the very best of folks who Id gladly go to the big war with. But they were righteous people, and their gay trim was inherant within themselves. They had no self esteem problems that made them go out and advertize themselves, nor did they have desire to have their sexual preference displayed anywhere other than with their partners in the privacy of their own intimacy.

 

The shastra you hear is mahaksadasa shastra. And I would be just as critical if heterosexuals always spouted off their sexual preferences or poloitcked for their rights to do so. Im speaking of what I have always called the hetero fags, the disco boys and macho men who think that what goats and rats and dogs do anywhere and everywhere is the goal of life, a religion to fight for and die for.

 

The folks who are arrogant are those who insist that those opposed to war for oil and those who desire liberal viewpoints must to faggots rights to turn young boys in the schools and include such wierdness into their national platform, and the dems fall for it all the time, just as kerry did, just as mondale and the other losers did, while the carl rove geniuses operate the gay agenda like puppet masters. Same with abortion (another topic). Why should me, a leftie left of fidel and che and uncle ho, have to accept the abortion genocide as a liberal ideal when everything about abortion is against human rights and other liberal platforms. Why should I have to tolerate the homos' claim to Dr Martin Luther King when he would have been the last person to approve of them at all.

 

Thank God I know this is all a game show, soon to be over. Thank god im with the police when they sing "there is no political solution". Its all maya kicking us thru the goalposts of Ayodhya.

 

mahak

 

What, you never read the mahaksadasa purana? Its the most dynamic of shastra, based on everyones entitlement to my opinion.

[indulekhadasi]

I am not saying gays are bad people, just that I really don't agree with what they are doing.

[Baobabtree]

 

This is fine, but this is for Kamis only.

Vaishnavas would not engage in this practice.

 

So now Shruti is for Kamis?

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

scuse me, but you are speaking with people, not dictionaries. Im 57 years old, a graduate of the sixties and remember them quite well. Ive known some righteous gays in my day, the very best of folks who Id gladly go to the big war with. But they were righteous people, and their gay trim was inherant within themselves. They had no self esteem problems that made them go out and advertize themselves, nor did they have desire to have their sexual preference displayed anywhere other than with their partners in the privacy of their own intimacy.

 

Sorry... I thought you were talking about the gay community in general... not just some homosexuals who wish to display their sexual preference to the world and make what they do with their genitalia everybody's business. Those types also bother me. And, it's not an anti-gay thing... I'd be just as upset with a 'straight parade' or a holiday for straight people to celebrate being straight.

[mahak]

I actually accept the notion of third gender, based on the fact that such a gender was created from the very beginning of time.

 

I have years of experiance as a civilian working with the military. The military is a large microcosm of the whole population. Therefore, the notion of "no gays in the military" is ludicrous, has no bearing on morale, fighting ability, etc. However, the reason that the military is taking a severe stand is not because of homosexuals in the military. Their stance is in response to the aggressive and pompous freaks that want their sexual perversion to be noted in a big way. The military KNOWS the contribution of homos who serve, because over 10% of those who fought WWII were gay, and we won that last righteous war in a big way. But morale is definitely hurt when some want rights that they do not deserve, because a hetero does not have the RIGHT to brag about his wife of the opposite gender and the missionary position they employ for their sexual activity. In fact, I fully support the military's stance on sexual harassment, and those who want to have open gay relationships in the military violate every sexual harassment law in regard to the effect on "third party". The result of sexual harassment is faulty performance and a hostile working environhment. If a gay person wants EQUAL rights, then they shoulod jkeep their sexual preference private just as the heteros are required to do. MPs bust strip bars and gay bars equally. I know many MPs, NIS, NIA, DIA and other investigastive agencies, and they never singled out gays, ever. Only perverts who chose to harm the military by engaging in sexual harassment, a criminal activity. Mere sexual preference is a protected class by law, but obscenity is a crime, hetero or homo not withstanding.

 

Bill Clinton is an idiot (and genocidal fascist, too, but thats another discussion). His "dont ask, dont tell" policy is the most ridiculous pandering to perverts ever by a sitting president (next to supporting Pol Pot just because he hated the Viet Cong). Dont ask dont tell has been the official policy of the defense department ever since Valley Forge where the Hessians huddled together to keep warm awaiting the red coats.

[indulekhadasi]

 

So now Shruti is for Kamis?

 

 

Different parts of different Shrutis cater for different people with different goals. Some put emphasis on dharma, some on artha, some on kama, and some on moksha. Vaishnavas do not care for all four of them. We care for the part about bhakti. Brihadaranyaka Upanishad is indeed great, but we only take the part meant for us.

[bija]

I'd be just as upset with a 'straight parade' or a holiday for straight people to celebrate being straight.

by radhey

 

I don't think I have ever met a straight person. (maybe I have not met a sadhu in person yet).

[indulekhadasi]

What about your Gurudeva, Bija prabhuji?

He is not straight?

[mahak]

Oh, BTW, I held the position as sexual harassment training facillitator for the Dept of Navy, Trident Refit Facility, and was given citation for my work by the Captain of the Base.

[bija]

I have not met him 'in person' Indu. I know he is real by the fruit in my life - unfortunately some on this forum think differently.

 

I have never been to India. And can't see myself getting there too soon, even though I have been asked to go. Maybe next birth!

[indulekhadasi]

Oh, I see.

But you must have your guru is not just straight, he is A REAL SADHU. Surely you must have been associating with him through his vani?

[bija]

Yes Indu:) He is the kindest, most loving person, who changed my life. His bhakti is evident!! He is my guide and hope in this miserable world.

 

I was referring to the general people I meet day to day, none of us are straight as far as I can tell - even if we sprout a thousand words of sastra our hearts are still full of desires. Then again I can only speak for myself.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

I actually accept the notion of third gender, based on the fact that such a gender was created from the very beginning of time.

 

I have years of experiance as a civilian working with the military. The military is a large microcosm of the whole population. Therefore, the notion of "no gays in the military" is ludicrous, has no bearing on morale, fighting ability, etc. However, the reason that the military is taking a severe stand is not because of homosexuals in the military. Their stance is in response to the aggressive and pompous freaks that want their sexual perversion to be noted in a big way. The military KNOWS the contribution of homos who serve, because over 10% of those who fought WWII were gay, and we won that last righteous war in a big way. But morale is definitely hurt when some want rights that they do not deserve, because a hetero does not have the RIGHT to brag about his wife of the opposite gender and the missionary position they employ for their sexual activity. In fact, I fully support the military's stance on sexual harassment, and those who want to have open gay relationships in the military violate every sexual harassment law in regard to the effect on "third party". The result of sexual harassment is faulty performance and a hostile working environhment. If a gay person wants EQUAL rights, then they shoulod jkeep their sexual preference private just as the heteros are required to do. MPs bust strip bars and gay bars equally. I know many MPs, NIS, NIA, DIA and other investigastive agencies, and they never singled out gays, ever. Only perverts who chose to harm the military by engaging in sexual harassment, a criminal activity. Mere sexual preference is a protected class by law, but obscenity is a crime, hetero or homo not withstanding.

 

Bill Clinton is an idiot (and genocidal fascist, too, but thats another discussion). His "dont ask, dont tell" policy is the most ridiculous pandering to perverts ever by a sitting president (next to supporting Pol Pot just because he hated the Viet Cong). Dont ask dont tell has been the official policy of the defense department ever since Valley Forge where the Hessians huddled together to keep warm awaiting the red coats.

I agree. Homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to form romantic relationships in the military just as heterosexual men and women aren't allowed to form romantic relationships in the military. What they do outside of it is fine w/ me... but I don't think they should be able to do so inside (since that's the going rule).

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

I'd be just as upset with a 'straight parade' or a holiday for straight people to celebrate being straight.

by radhey

 

I don't think I have ever met a straight person. (maybe I have not met a sadhu in person yet).

Surely you've met at least one heterosexual person! Right?

[indulekhadasi]

 

Yes Indu:) He is the kindest, most loving person, who changed my life. His bhakti is evident!! He is my guide and hope in this miserable world.

 

I was referring to the general people I meet day to day, none of us are straight as far as I can tell - even if we sprout a thousand words of sastra our hearts are still full of desires. Then again I can only speak for myself.

 

I am the most crooked person you could ever meet, still you have been so kind to a fallen soul like me. I am greatful.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

I have not met him 'in person' Indu. I know he is real by the fruit in my life - unfortunately some on this forum think differently.

 

I have never been to India. And can't see myself getting there too soon, even though I have been asked to go. Maybe next birth!

I'm sure your guru is wonderful if a devout soul like you is his disciple

[bija]

 

Surely you've met at least one heterosexual person! Right? by Radhey

On this forum I would probably get flamed for quoting Jesus (he is not vedic right)

 

'those of you without sin cast the first stone'

 

purport: those of you who have not integrated the shadow often throw stones. Fear.

 

I see myself as a micrcosm of the Macrocosm. So what exists in me exists in It (and vice versa). Even though I am individual jiva nothing is seperate from me (inconceivable simultaneous oneness and difference). So the conglomerate illusory potency also exists within my body - all has been there.

 

The way I see things Radhey we have been transmigrating in various bodies for a 'hell' of a long time. And that effects so much accumulation in the subtle body...the seeds of sin can even be lying dormant for many births...and can sprout unexpectedly to teach us humility. Eternity is a long time.

 

'judge not or you will be judged the same'

 

All I am saying is we should tread carefully...justice is a strange entity!

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

On this forum I would probably get flamed for quoting Jesus (he is not vedic right)

 

'those of you without sin cast the first stone'

 

purport: those of you who have not integrated the shadow often throw stones. Fear.

 

I see myself as a micrcosm of the Macrocosm. So what exists in me exists in It (and vice versa). Even though I am individual jiva nothing is seperate from me (inconceivable simultaneous oneness and difference). So the conglomerate illusory potency also exists within my body - all has been there.

 

The way I see things Radhey we have been transmigrating in various bodies for a 'hell' of a long time. And that effects so much accumulation in the subtle body...the seeds of sin can even be lying dormant for many births...and can sprout unexpectedly to teach us humility. Eternity is a long time.

 

'judge not or you will be judged the same'

 

All I am saying is we should tread carefully...justice is a strange entity!

Okay I get what you're saying now Good point!

Oh... and... no need to worry. I won't flame you for quoting Jesus I like him as well.

[bija]

Here is a tangent:

 

I like shopping for beautiful devotional things.

 

Found this the other day...beautiful Tulsi Mala.

 

http://www.yogabasics.com/japamalabeads/index.html

 

http://www.yogabasics.com/japamalabeads/tulsiMala.html

[RadheyRadhey108]

OMG... you don't know how weird this is! I've been looking for a nice, smooth Tulasi Mala to buy all day! Thank you!