gay marriage in California

[bija]

lol...Jai Nitaai!!!

 

good price too;)

 

I ordered a wrist mala (not tulsi) so I can do some sneaky jaap around town.

[RadheyRadhey108]

Hahahaha Sneaking around, singing Hare Krishna!

[bija]

[ATTACH]1703[/ATTACH]integrate: make into a whole or make part of a whole

 

[theist]

Well no I don't I am happy to do it.

 

Homosexuality is a deviant lifestyle. Pedophila is also a deviant lifestyle. No I am not equating the two except they are both deviations. Should we not consider pedophilia deviant because it might hurt someones feeling?

 

Just because something exists does not mean it's natural. Are there any gurus in the GV line who are homosexuals? I don't know just nevert heard of one.

 

Any example of homosexuality in any of the rasa's with Krishna?

 

Any descriptions in the scriptures about homosexuality in Vaikuntha?

 

Tell you anything?

[bija]

5. Gauranga-nagaris: rasabhasa bhaktas

"From the life of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, an intelligent person engaged in pure devotional service can understand that He always felt separation from Krishna within Himself. In that separation He sometimes felt that He had found Krishna and was enjoying the meeting. The significance of this separation and meeting is very specific. If someone tries to understand the exalted position of Lord Caitanya without knowing this, he is sure to misunderstand it. One must first become fully self-realized. Otherwise he may misidentify the Lord as nagara, or the enjoyer of the damsels of Vraja, thus committing the mistake of rasabhasa, or overlapping understanding." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi 4.106, Purport)

The gauranga-nagaris are quite prominent in Bengal and Bangladesh. Outwardly, they appear as regular Bengali vaishnavas, but there is a subtle sahajiya contamination in their conception of Lord Caitanya's mood of devotion. Thus their position is strongly refuted by the acaryas of the Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya, even though other aspects of this sect may seem praiseworthy: like staunch vaishnavas, they wear tilak and neck beads, are good kirtan performers and strictly abstain from flesh and fish.

In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.23.31, Srila Prabhupada focuses on the sahajiya contamination that the gauranga-nagaris represent:

"Sometimes the sahajiya class of devotees are interested only in Krishna's personal pastimes to the exclusion of the activities of the devotees."

But such an attitude can only baffle the attempt to comprehend the person and activities of Sri Caitanya Mahapabhu, for Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi 1.14 states:

 

 

panca-tattvatmakam krsnam

bhakta-rupa-svarupakam

bhaktavatarm bhaktakhyam

namami bhakta-saktikam

 

 

"I offer my obeisances unto the Supreme Lord, Krishna, who is non-different from His features as a devotee, devotional incarnation, devotional manifestation, pure devotee and devotional energy."

The gauranga-nagaris are not interested in Lord Caitanya as a devotee, or in His five features as the Sri Panca-Tattva. They desire to relate to Lord Caitanya as Krishna Himself, particularly as lampat (yatha-tathava vidhadhatu-lampato: "He is a debauchee, so it is His nature to do as He likes"). They style Him as nagara, and themselves as nagari.

The gauranga-nagari doctrine is very briefly and yet very completely explained by Srila Prabhupada in several purports of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta. A few relevant quotes are as follows.

"...the gaura-nagaris, who place Lord Caitanya in the position of enjoyer and themselves as His enjoyed, are not approved by Lord Caitanya or by Lord Caitanya's followers. Instead of being blessed, the foolish imitators are left completely apart. Their concoctions are against the principles of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. The doctrine of transcendental enjoyment by Krishna cannot be mixed up with the doctrine of transcendental feeling of separation from Krishna in the role of Radharani." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi 4.41, purport)

"Doctrines like those of the nadiya-nagaris, a class of so-called devotees, are never presented by authorized persons like Svarupa Damodara or the six Gosvamis. The ideas of the nadiya-nagaris are simply mental concoction, and they are completely on the mental platform." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi 4.107, purport)

"...a so-called party of devotees named nadiya-nagari has sprung up and introduced the worship of Vishnupriya. This certainly indicates ignorance of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's pastimes. In the opinion of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, such worship is a product of the imagination." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya 14.7, purport)

Refuting the Gauranga-nagari Doctrine

In Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi 1.5, Lord Caitanya is described as radha-bhava-dyuti-suvalita, "adorned with the mood and luster of Srimati Radharani." Nowhere in any revealed scripture is He said to be krsna-bhava-dyuti-suvalita, "adorned with the mood and luster of Sri Krishna," which would support the gauranga-nagari conception. Spokesmen of this apasampradaya not only say that Lord Caitanya exhibited Krishna's enjoying mood, they claim further that Vishnupriya-devi, the Lord's second wife, is Srimati Radharani, and that her close female friends are gopis. But as Srila Vrindavan das Thakur makes clear in Sri Caitanya-bhagavata, Vishnupriya-devi is actually Bhu-sakti, a form of Laksmi. The wives, mothers and daughters of Lord Gauranga's associates in Nadia attend Vishnupriya in her bathing and dressing exactly as the maidservants of Lakmiji serve Her in Vaikuntha-dhama. Their mood is different from the mood of the damsels of Vrindavan.

Sri Caitanya Bhagavata is also very clear about Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's extreme gravity in His dealings with women -- even with His own wives, what to speak of other women. He never so much as looked at the village girls of Nadia, let alone smile or talk to them. But in the tradition of the sahajiyas, the gauranga-nagaris have invented offensive myths about Lord Caitanya's supposed love affairs with a mistress named Kancana and other fictional consorts. These stories should never be heard.

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur appreciated the manifestation of Krishna's mood in Lord Caitanya in His dealings with Sri Gadadhara Prabhu. Sri Gadadhara was so meek and submissive that the Lord sometimes remarked to His confidential associates, "Gadadhara is My consort in the spiritual world." Indeed, Gadadhara Prabhu's spiritual emotions for Lord Caitanya are described as suddha gadha bhava rukmini-devira ("pure, deep ecstatic love in the mood of Rukmini-devi") in Antya 7.144 of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur thus worshiped Sri Sri Gaura-Gadadhara Deities in his bhajana. Here is an example of an internal flavor of attraction in an advanced devotee for a confidential feature of Lord Caitanya's pastimes. But this is not a subject matter for preaching. Lord Caitanya's preaching pastimes are relished in Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai worship, as seen in ISKCON temples around the world. This mode of Deity worship is performed to inspire the public at large to engage in harer-nama-sankirtan. But in any case, the worship of Sri Gaura-Gadadhara by the pure devotee has nothing to do with the rasabhasa of the gauranga-nagaris.

As Srila Prabhupada states above, the gauranga-nagaris are on the mental platform. Their so-called mood of devotion is really just eroticism, a creation of their impure minds. Their wrong meditation upon Lord Caitanya simply arouses their lust, and they foolishly take that lust to be spiritual ecstacy.

[bija]

Just because something exists does not mean it's natural post by theist

That's a fair comment Theist. Maybe we should talk about what is natural? And what leads us to the hell of repeated birth and death?

You see I have been on that repeated birth and death trip since time immemorial. I have been a beggar, a king, a despot, a deviant, an addict, a millionare, a lover, a thief, a rogue, a naturalist, a philanthropist, a killer, a soldier, a xeno-phobiac, a slave, a free-man, a liar, a priest, a dog, a pig...and other things not fit to mention or air...all things...

all things since I chose to turn away...unlimited desires...

What is the natural way?

I think we both know. How do we attain it is what I am pleading for. Super-soul please!

 

Please grant me that buddhi yoga...union with you!

 

[rand0M aXiS]

 

 

Nice photograph of the Tufa Towers in Mono Lake!!!

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Well no I don't I am happy to do it.

 

Homosexuality is a deviant lifestyle. Pedophila is also a deviant lifestyle. No I am not equating the two except they are both deviations. Should we not consider pedophilia deviant because it might hurt someones feeling?

 

Just because something exists does not mean it's natural. Are there any gurus in the GV line who are homosexuals? I don't know just nevert heard of one.

 

Any example of homosexuality in any of the rasa's with Krishna?

 

Any descriptions in the scriptures about homosexuality in Vaikuntha?

 

Tell you anything?

The difference between homosexuality and pedophilia is that we don't know if homosexuality is considered 'deviant' by God, and homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone. Pedophilia, on the other hand, leads people to horribly damage children and permanently damages their sexual organs without their consent. Not to mention that pedophiles are RAPISTS.

Are there any descriptions of people dying their hair in Rasa Lila? Or any description of it in Vaikuntha? Or Goloka? Has there ever been a Gaudiya Vaishnava guru who dyed his hair (I mean... sure... there have been ones that were pedophiles, but we shouldn't talk about that when we're trying to use their example for gay bashing)? Oh no... I guess people who dye their hair and hair dressers are now leading deviant life-styles. We must tell them!

Oh... BTW, in the Rama Charitmanas by Sri Tulsidas Goswami, it is reported that a group of male sages fell in love with Rama and wished to make love to Him, but He told them He wouldn't until His next birth (as Sri Krishna) in which they were reborn as Gopis. So, that'd be a lovely example in Rama-Lila. So, maybe Sri Krishna isn't homosexual, but He still loves His followers who are!

[indulekhadasi]

But He didn't fulfill their desire right there and then! Why didn't He? That is my question. Why did He make His dear devotees wait to become gopis, before enjoying with Them?

[theist]

 

What is the natural way?

 

A loving relationship with Krishna is Natural. In this unnatural material world following the prescribed laws of nature as ordained by Krishna is the natural way that evidentually leads back to the Natural.

 

Homosexuality is unnatural in either sphere.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

But He didn't fulfill their desire right there and then! Why didn't He? That is my question. Why did He make His dear devotees wait to become gopis, before enjoying with Them?

B/c He was already married to Sita Devi. He didn't fulfill the desires of Vaishno Devi for the same reason.

But, no matter what, it is an example of homosexuality in one of Lord Krishna's incarnations and He still accepted them and their loving devotion for what it was.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

A loving relationship with Krishna is Natural. In this unnatural material world following the prescribed laws of nature as ordained by Krishna is the natural way that evidentually leads back to the Natural.

 

Homosexuality is unnatural in either sphere.

If the material world is unnatural in itself, then what's wrong w/ being 'unnatural' in an unnatural world? Especially when Lord Krishna hasn't said anything on the issue?

[indulekhadasi]

Remember Radhey, what we do now is the perverted reflection of what Krishna does. Love has turned to lust in many cases.

[Samia]

 

The difference between homosexuality and pedophilia is that we don't know if homosexuality is considered 'deviant' by God

 

 

Actually the way our reproductive organs are is all the proof that is needed. Sex is for reproduction, and yes I know it feels good and that is part of the design as well, if sex was painful like hitting your hand with a nailgun the species would cease to exist.

It was far more natural for males to reproduce with younger girls who had hit puberty and could give birth when human lifespans were 30 or so years. there are still countries that have legal child brides. Now the moralist in me finds child brides to be disgusting but it is more in bounds with nature than gay lifestyles are.

Gays have a defect in thier brain, now should that mean they can not marry ? In my opinion no it doesn`t I mean we allow people with retardation to marry so lets be fair.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Actually the way our reproductive organs are is all the proof that is needed. Sex is for reproduction, and yes I know it feels good and that is part of the design as well, if sex was painful like hitting your hand with a nailgun the species would cease to exist.

It was far more natural for males to reproduce with younger girls who had hit puberty and could give birth when human lifespans were 30 or so years. there are still countries that have legal child brides. Now the moralist in me finds child brides to be disgusting but it is more in bounds with nature than gay lifestyles are.

Gays have a defect in thier brain, now should that mean they can not marry ? In my opinion no it doesn`t I mean we allow people with retardation to marry so lets be fair.

Well, at least you agree that they should be able to have the right to love who they want (although I must disagree about child brides being more natural).

[theist]

 

If the material world is unnatural in itself, then what's wrong w/ being 'unnatural' in an unnatural world? Especially when Lord Krishna hasn't said anything on the issue?

 

You missed the point of that post also. Because you don't want to give up this false idea of being gay you will always miss the point.

 

No offense but going in circles with you is a waste of time. Do what you want I don't care. Just don't do ridiculous things in Krishna's name.

[theist]

 

B/c He was already married to Sita Devi. He didn't fulfill the desires of Vaishno Devi for the same reason.

But, no matter what, it is an example of homosexuality in one of Lord Krishna's incarnations and He still accepted them and their loving devotion for what it was.

 

Here is a perfect example of twisting Krishna lila into something profrane. You are speaking totally on the bodily platform. Loving God in conjugal rasa has nothing to do with being in a male body. To do this you have approach the Lord in a female form, NOT A FEMALE PHYSICAL BODY necessarily, but in the inner mood of a female and with a spiritual body.

 

You are claiming that Rama would have had homosexual elations except for His marriage to Sita. You are saying that the Lord has loving exchanges based on the gender of the stool-bag body. That is extremely foul and offensive.

[Baobabtree]

 

Homosexuality is a deviant lifestyle. Pedophila is also a deviant lifestyle. No I am not equating the two except they are both deviations. Should we not consider pedophilia deviant because it might hurt someones feeling?

There have been studies that prove sex is psychologically damaging for children. So, we know pedophilia is wrong. Such is not the case for homosexuality.

[Samia]

 

There have been studies that prove sex is psychologically damaging for children. So, we know pedophilia is wrong. Such is not the case for homosexuality.

 

Well since homosexuality is a defect in the brain the damage already exists.

[indulekhadasi]

I never knew that both Theist and Radheyradhey would start to fight. This seems to be crossing the border of a difference of opinion and into a fight. A kind reminder to everyone that this is a spiritual forum not a bickering forum. You may not agree with each other, but it proper to respect each other as Vaishnavas.

Thank you.

indulekhadasi

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

You missed the point of that post also. Because you don't want to give up this false idea of being gay you will always miss the point.

Theist, I'm not gay. I just think they should have equal rights. Especially since our government *claims* to be secular and have a division of church and state (which it isn't showing by not allowing homosexuals to marry).

 

Just don't do ridiculous things in Krishna's name.

You're the one making statements about what Krishna does and doesn't want without the basis of Shastra. I've asked you to give me a specific quote from Shastra officially denouncing homosexuality as sinful, and you haven't provided one. That'd be because there isn't one.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Well since homosexuality is a defect in the brain the damage already exists.

What is organically different between a homosexual's brain and a heterosexual's brain? If there isn't one, then how can you prove that their brains are damaged?

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Here is a perfect example of twisting Krishna lila into something profrane. You are speaking totally on the bodily platform. Loving God in conjugal rasa has nothing to do with being in a male body. To do this you have approach the Lord in a female form, NOT A FEMALE PHYSICAL BODY necessarily, but in the inner mood of a female and with a spiritual body.

You are claiming that Rama would have had homosexual elations except for His marriage to Sita. You are saying that the Lord has loving exchanges based on the gender of the stool-bag body. That is extremely foul and offensive.

Hey, you're the one that asked for an example of homosexuality in Krishna-Lila. I gave you one from Ram-Lila. Don't ask questions like that if you don't want answers.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

I never knew that both Theist and Radheyradhey would start to fight. This seems to be crossing the border of a difference of opinion and into a fight. A kind reminder to everyone that this is a spiritual forum not a bickering forum. You may not agree with each other, but it proper to respect each other as Vaishnavas.

Thank you.

indulekhadasi

I respect him as a fellow Vaishnava. I'm not too big on his social opinions, but I still respect him as a Vaishnava.

[Samia]

 

What is organically different between a homosexual's brain and a heterosexual's brain? If there isn't one, then how can you prove that their brains are damaged?

 

There are several researchers that have shown some base brain differences Simon LeVay being one of the most often attacked. There is also the common sense factor in play man+woman=children man+man or woman+woman = end of species. Survival of species is one of the core,basic, primal functions of the brain and when this doesn`t exist one can pretty easily assume that the brain is not working properly.