An historical honest view of ISKCON's History

[Svarupa]

 

 

An historical view of ISKCON's History

 

 

 

 

An historical view of ISKCON's History

 

"When Prabhupada came to the West in 1965, he had the determination to spread Krsna Consciousness all over the world and found the then troubled youth of the Western World more that happy to help.

Many had been jolted into questioning their existence from taking LSD and began searching for an understanding that could answer the many questions about why they existed; this was one of the side effects of LSD.

So in droves they started coming to Prabhupada who arrived in America at the same time this ‘LSD insurrection’ started in America that was greatly influencing music, literature, poetry, art, philosophy and religion.

So it was from this background Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON movement of Krishna Consciousness began in 1966.

His American followers had grown up in an extremely materialistic world where their parents where embroiled in a worldwide war 20 years earlier and a server Economic Depression before that. They were now determined in the 50s and 60s to give their children all the material comforts they missed out on.

However a small but influential baby boomers generation had become disillusioned by the material values their parents were setting up. As Prabhupada said in his Srimad Bhagavatam,

 

 

 

 

 

• “Human society, at the present moment, is not in the darkness of oblivion. It has made rapid progress in the fields of material comforts, education and economic development throughout the entire world. But there is a pinprick somewhere in the social body at large, and therefore there are large-scale quarrels, even over less important issues. There is need of a clue as to how humanity can become one in peace, friendship and prosperity with a common cause. Srimad-Bhagavatam will fill this need, for it is a cultural presentation for the respiritualization of the entire human society”.

In order to bring many of these disillusioned American youth into his fold, he had to adjust some of the high spiritual principles he was used to following back in India, for example he asked his new disciples to chant 16 rounds of the Hare Krsna mantra a day instead of 64 rounds.

 

 

 

 

 

In 1972 the massive book distribution programmes began all over the world and some aspiring Vaishnava historians, like myself, who was there when this massive book distribution program began, believed that this ‘distribution of books’ as well as building big ISKCON Temple basis in India, was paramount to anything else in laying the solid foundation of ISKCON that would with stand any future storm.

As far as I am concerned, the greatest bliss in Krishna consciousness was during those early pioneering years selling books while Prabhupada was with us. From 72 to the end of 74, they were the best years of book distribution I will always remember, I remember selling 80 of the book 'Nectar of Devotion' one Thursday in Sydney, the money we collected paid for the Melbourne Temple.

This massive book distribution program meant to some degree during the pioneering years of 1966-77, that even if a devotee was qualified or not, if they could distribute books and help lay the basic foundations of ISKCON, even in a small way, then that contribution by them to Prabhupada (most of them young girls and boys in their early 20’s) was more important during these pioneering years to Prabhupada than how sinful, fallen or immature they were.

Most of us were just juvenile confused kids disillusioned with the material values of our parents. We therefore new something was missing and no amount of material opulence given to us by our parents, could ever quench our thirst for the truth and wisdom.

Prabhupada new this, but had the realization that if he could somehow use our enthusiasm and youthful energy to spread his teachings, then centres would be established and be solid bases in all major cities around the world for those future generations who are seeking the truth.

Somehow, by Krsna’s mercy, he had to spread the message of Lord Caitanya by ‘hook or crook’. He therefore was not concerned if the ‘postmen and women’ who carried his message were qualified or not. He new, that in time, such transcendantal service would purify them.

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada had come alone with the message of Lord Caitanya from his humble abode in Vrndavana India, to a struggling sinful Western materialistic culture in 1965, that was on the verge of a technological and cultural revolution, over shadowed with the fear of an all out Nuclear war.

Regardless of this, Srila Prabhupada new that he had to speedily establish a firm foundation of his ISKCON society in the West, as well as back in India, then such Temples and the millions of books distributed, while he was here, would lay the concrete foundations that would endure any calamity the movement may go through after he departs this planet.

He also new, from his own experience with the Gaudiya Math, set up by his Spiritual Master, there also maybe infighting amongst his young immature disciples. In this way, by Krsna’s grace, Prabhupada was determined to lay a solid foundation that his ISKCON society can grow from and withstand the impending conflicts of wars between nations and the internal ISKCON ‘growing pains’ his movement may go through during its youthful developement to Adulthood.

 

In this way he believed a solid foundation of book distribution and big Temples all over the world, especially in India, would shelter his ISKCON teachings and organization from the mundane effects of Kali-yuga, not allowing the problems of the world to impede his preaching (Sankirtan) movement in the future. He believed if his movement was strongly established, it would weather any storm and continue to grow and expand into a dominant world Movement, as it is doing now, as predicted by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

In this fashion, considering the hash and violent background of the 20th Century, from where his disciples and grand disciples came from, it really was no surprise to anyone with spiritual intelligence, that after his disappearance their would be serious problems in ISKCON as devotees adjust and mature on their path to reach the high principles Prabhupada taught by his humble example.

 

 

 

AFTER PRABHUPADA'S DISAPPEARANCE IN 1977

 

 

Srila Prabhupada appointed eleven men himself as ‘initiating Gurus’,

of whom the oldest was 38 years old and the youngest being only 26 years of age, just before he left the planet, knowing it would be more dangerous to appoint a single devotee acharya, which was not the way of Gaudiya Vaishnavism anyway because the next Acharya would naturally evolve and stand out similar to the way Prabhupada stood out from his Gaudiya Matha Godbrothers.It is important to note how old the devotee were during those beginning years, the average age in 1977 was 26.

Srila Prabhupada always meant that the GBC body was the ultimate authority and NOT the individual gurus or sannyasi's. All of them were suppose to be subordinate to the GBC body headed by an elected President who has a term at that post; instead they divided the world up into their own empires. This was the first mistake of disobeying Prabhupada's orders and was the beginning of the end to the so-called 'chosen guru' system.

We in fact, in an innocent green-horne kind of way, carried on the Guru reverence as if Prabhupada had never left, which in itself is not a bad thing if it worked, after all Prabhupada appointed these men himself.

 

The appointed gurus were built up by all of us with the expectations of them being pure devotees however, they were not proficient on the level of Prabhupada, yet we would adore them anyway ON THAT LEVEL with the trust they would turn out to be competent and be like Prabhupada, that's how childlike we were.

In this way we legitimately assumed that in time, due to the purification process of Bhakti-yoga, all the 11 appointed gurus would turn out to be pure devotees under the test of time.

In all fairness to all the original eleven 'chosen gurus', it was also their Godbrothers, including myself, who saw them as a substitute 'Prabhupada' so to speak, and then extravagantly worshiped them like Prabhupada to their disciples, attracting more and more disciples, building them up to be a 'Prabhupada' to all new devotees that we innocently yet ignorantly mislead in the early 1980”s, calling them bogus, yet sentimental names like 'Vishnupada, Bhaktipad etc'.

In this lesson, it must be understood the search for shining examples in a leaders disposition, is actually a natural occurrence within human society however, when we are young, inexperienced and undeveloped, our naivety unfortunately over glorifies those we have a high regard for around us, to be something they are not experienced to be, just like we did after Prabhupada left us in 1977 with the appointed eleven gurus.

As the years dragged on through the 80s and 90s, the method of communications with many ISKCON leaders was very patronizing. Unfortunately as the years went on, many had convinced themselves and others, who naively followed them, that they new ‘everything’ in both spiritual and material communications, when in actual fact they new very little of the 'real' world of accountability.

Sadly many ISKCON leaders had no insight into what the repercussions would be in the future due to their unqualified leadership.

In other words they had no insight of what their judgements now, would affect seriously the lives of other devotees and the movement as a whole in the future. They and many others in leadership had become over confident, arrogant and puffed-up with the little realizations they had during these early pioneering years, but could not see at that time how childish and immature they were at just the beginning of a great pioneer movement.

Due to their own self-importance, to pass judgment on them in the way in their attempted to manage during these early pioneering years, would only catch the attention of the criticism of them and there supporters

If justice is achieved and truthfulness and honesty is to be ever understood, the and others must admit they just did not have the 'mature vision' back then to appropriately guide others from putting themselves and others harms way.

It is however a fact that if one has firm faith in the chanting of Hare Krishna, no doubt THEIR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS will be protected, maybe not the biological vessel they are presently in. A devotee is fully dependant on Krishna's plan and surrenders to the chanting of Hare Krishna.

Again it must be stressed that the leadership back then MUST be honest enough to admit that they were clearly wrong in the way they handled many struggling devotees due to THEIR immaturity and arrogance as leaders. This period of was dominated by youthful inexperience and unpredictability.

Their attempts to lead the way in ISKCON directly after Prabhupada’s departure naturally had absolutely no idea of what the serious consequences would be later to many lives due to such pioneering immaturity.

It is foolish therefore, for them all to deny part responsibility for the things they could have stopped with maturity, wisdom and insight. These so-called 'good intentions' went on like this for years and it can historically in ISKCON be put down to the immature growing pains or teething problems of a young pioneering movement destined to one day be a major world wide institution as Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu predicated.

Hari Sauri Prabhu once suggested to Prabhupada, "It will take some generations for devotees to become purified".

Prabhupada told Hari Sauri it does not have to be that way; we can all become purified now if we all became convinced and learn from our mistakes."

 

Which we are gradually doing as so many preaching programs around the world prove

[cbrahma]

 

Srila Prabhupada appointed eleven men himself as ‘initiating Gurus’

That is ISKCON propaganda.

[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by Realist [BY: SURESH DASA ] ...One wonders if the purpose or agenda is to create an impression that ISKCON is a society of only the most loyal and ardent supporters, who never see or experience any evil or wrongdoing, especially by the society’s most elite authorities. ...

 

 

To the Uppity Vaisnava mal-content Class of 2008:

Does every other related Gaudiya-Vaishnav Asram/Muth allow new comers to stay indefinately within their asrama's to be trained in Brahminical ettiqutte?

 

In Iskcon the modus operandi is to introduce KRISHNA. Who is Krishna etc.

That is the mission of Iskcon. We have all been weeded out and that's as good as it gets. Fin.

 

Where else can you commit yourself to an institution that exists simular to Iskcon's open door policy?

 

What every complainer is harkening to is that there never was entrance requirements ie: reference and exams and tuition to keep out people with less than first-class back grounds, credentials, paraentage, wealth and, culture before entering the confines of Iskcon doors.

 

The hindu temples else where are isolationist, exclusive or outright business ventures.

 

You are all complaining about how you cannot do as you'd like because someone that [for good reasons] you have no regards for is poo-poo-ing your initiative.

 

If you want to be an Olympian Competitor than the hard work is to be overseen and coached by you and yourself determination alone.

 

If you can make the grade you will be welcomed as a valevictorian by gurus by the dozen to give a commencement speech in your honor.

 

[Sarva gattah]

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada - "The world stands in no need of any reformer. The world has a very competent person for guiding its minutest happenings.

The person who determines that there is scope for reform of the world, himself stands in need of reform.

The world goes on in its own perfect way. No person can deflect it even the breadth of a hair from the course chalked out for it by providence.

When we perceive any change being actually effected in the course of events of this world by the agency of any particular individual, we must know very well that the agent possesses no real power at any stage.

The agent finds himself driven forward by a force belonging to a different category from himself. The course of the world does not require to be changed by the agency of any person.

What is necessary is to change our outlook on this world.

This was done for the contemporary generation by the mercy of Sri Chaitanya. It can only be known to recipients of his mercy.

The scriptures declare that it is only necessary to listen with an open mind to the name of Krishna from the lips of a bona fide devotee.

As soon as Krishna enters the listening ear, he clears up the vision of the listener so that he no longer has any ambition of ever acting the part of a reformer of any other person, because he finds that nobody is left without the very highest guidance.

It is therefore his own reform, by the grace of God, whose supreme necessity and nature he is increasingly able to realize, by the eternally continuing mercy of the Supreme Lord.

From The Harmonist, May 1932, issue number 11. Article originally titled, “Sree Chaitanya in South India”. Pages 325-326.

 

 

 

Praghosa Dasa

 

We may have so many duties and issues to deal with in life but ultimately we have to be convinced that the most important thing of all, both for every living entity, and us is developing our relationship with Krsna.

If we become distracted from that by getting bogged down into thinking that we can solve the social, economic, cultural and whatever other problems of the world by some other arrangement then we have fallen foul of what SBSST is highlighting in his essay.

There are many references in sastra that reflect this dynamic:

tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer - One who has forsaken his material occupations to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything SB 1.5.17

devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam pitrnam - O King, one who has given up all material duties and has taken full shelter of the lotus feet of Mukunda, who offers shelter to all, is not indebted to the demigods, great sages, ordinary living beings, relatives, friends, mankind or even one’s forefathers who have passed away.

Since all such classes of living entities are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, one who has surrendered to the Lord’s service has no need to serve such persons separately. SB 11.5.41

In other words, unless one is Krsna conscious, all his material possessions are zero, but when this zero is by the side of the Supreme One, it at once increases in value to ten.

 

Unless situated by the side of the Supreme One, zero is always zero; one may add one hundred zeros, but the value will still remain zero. Unless one’s material assets are used in Krsna consciousness, they may play havoc and degrade the possessor. SB 4.3.17 Purport

“One who has unflinching devotion for the Personality of Godhead has all the good qualities of the demigods. But one who is not a devotee of the Lord has only material qualifications that are of little value.

This is because he is hovering on the mental plane and is certain to be attracted by the glaring material energy.” Citizens under the guidance of a Krsna conscious king will become devotees, and then there will be no need to enact new laws every day to reform the way of life in the state.

If the citizens are trained to become devotees, they will automatically become peaceful and honest, and if a devoted king advised by devotees’ guides them, the state will not be in the material world but in the spiritual world.

 

All the states of the world should therefore follow the ideal of the rule or administration of Maharaja Ambarisa, as described here. SB 9.4.22

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

An historical view of ISKCON's History

 

 

 

 

 

An historical view of ISKCON's History

 

"When Prabhupada came to the West in 1965, he had the determination to spread Krsna Consciousness all over the world and found the then troubled youth of the Western World more that happy to help.

Many had been jolted into questioning their existence from taking LSD and began searching for an understanding that could answer the many questions about why they existed; this was one of the side effects of LSD.

So in droves they started coming to Prabhupada who arrived in America at the same time this ‘LSD insurrection’ started in America that was greatly influencing music, literature, poetry, art, philosophy and religion.

So it was from this background Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON movement of Krishna Consciousness began in 1966.

His American followers had grown up in an extremely materialistic world where their parents where embroiled in a worldwide war 20 years earlier and a server Economic Depression before that. They were now determined in the 50s and 60s to give their children all the material comforts they missed out on.

However a small but influential baby boomers generation had become disillusioned by the material values their parents were setting up. As Prabhupada said in his Srimad Bhagavatam,

 

 

 

 

 

• “Human society, at the present moment, is not in the darkness of oblivion. It has made rapid progress in the fields of material comforts, education and economic development throughout the entire world. But there is a pinprick somewhere in the social body at large, and therefore there are large-scale quarrels, even over less important issues. There is need of a clue as to how humanity can become one in peace, friendship and prosperity with a common cause. Srimad-Bhagavatam will fill this need, for it is a cultural presentation for the respiritualization of the entire human society”.

In order to bring many of these disillusioned American youth into his fold, he had to adjust some of the high spiritual principles he was used to following back in India, for example he asked his new disciples to chant 16 rounds of the Hare Krsna mantra a day instead of 64 rounds.

 

 

 

 

 

In 1972 the massive book distribution programmes began all over the world and some aspiring Vaishnava historians, like myself, who was there when this massive book distribution program began, believed that this ‘distribution of books’ as well as building big ISKCON Temple basis in India, was paramount to anything else in laying the solid foundation of ISKCON that would with stand any future storm.

As far as I am concerned, the greatest bliss in Krishna consciousness was during those early pioneering years selling books while Prabhupada was with us. From 72 to the end of 74, they were the best years of book distribution I will always remember, I remember selling 80 of the book 'Nectar of Devotion' one Thursday in Sydney, the money we collected paid for the Melbourne Temple.

This massive book distribution program meant to some degree during the pioneering years of 1966-77, that even if a devotee was qualified or not, if they could distribute books and help lay the basic foundations of ISKCON, even in a small way, then that contribution by them to Prabhupada (most of them young girls and boys in their early 20’s) was more important during these pioneering years to Prabhupada than how sinful, fallen or immature they were.

Most of us were just juvenile confused kids disillusioned with the material values of our parents. We therefore new something was missing and no amount of material opulence given to us by our parents, could ever quench our thirst for the truth and wisdom.

Prabhupada new this, but had the realization that if he could somehow use our enthusiasm and youthful energy to spread his teachings, then centres would be established and be solid bases in all major cities around the world for those future generations who are seeking the truth.

Somehow, by Krsna’s mercy, he had to spread the message of Lord Caitanya by ‘hook or crook’. He therefore was not concerned if the ‘postmen and women’ who carried his message were qualified or not. He new, that in time, such transcendantal service would purify them.

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada had come alone with the message of Lord Caitanya from his humble abode in Vrndavana India, to a struggling sinful Western materialistic culture in 1965, that was on the verge of a technological and cultural revolution, over shadowed with the fear of an all out Nuclear war.

Regardless of this, Srila Prabhupada new that he had to speedily establish a firm foundation of his ISKCON society in the West, as well as back in India, then such Temples and the millions of books distributed, while he was here, would lay the concrete foundations that would endure any calamity the movement may go through after he departs this planet.

He also new, from his own experience with the Gaudiya Math, set up by his Spiritual Master, there also maybe infighting amongst his young immature disciples. In this way, by Krsna’s grace, Prabhupada was determined to lay a solid foundation that his ISKCON society can grow from and withstand the impending conflicts of wars between nations and the internal ISKCON ‘growing pains’ his movement may go through during its youthful developement to Adulthood.

 

In this way he believed a solid foundation of book distribution and big Temples all over the world, especially in India, would shelter his ISKCON teachings and organization from the mundane effects of Kali-yuga, not allowing the problems of the world to impede his preaching (Sankirtan) movement in the future. He believed if his movement was strongly established, it would weather any storm and continue to grow and expand into a dominant world Movement, as it is doing now, as predicted by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

In this fashion, considering the hash and violent background of the 20th Century, from where his disciples and grand disciples came from, it really was no surprise to anyone with spiritual intelligence, that after his disappearance their would be serious problems in ISKCON as devotees adjust and mature on their path to reach the high principles Prabhupada taught by his humble example.

 

Hari Sauri Prabhu once suggested to Prabhupada, "It will take some generations for devotees to become purified".

Prabhupada told Hari Sauri it does not have to be that way; we can all become purified now if we all became convinced and learn from our mistakes."

 

Which we are gradually doing as so many preaching programs around the world prove

 

The nectar part of this story before 1977

[Sarva gattah]

Blessing in disguise Blessing in disguise

 

<SMALL>Posted by: Kamal-sri dasi in Narada Muni, Tolerance, Ukraine 2008, Compassion, Russian, Bhagavatam</SMALL> Speaker: His Holiness Indradyumna Swami

Verse: Srimad Bhagavatam - 6.5.44

Where: Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine, May 19, 2008

Essence: “The symptoms of a sadhu are that he is tolerant, merciful, and friendly to all living entities. These qualities were exemplified by Narada Muni who silently tolerated the curse of Prajapati Daksa to deliver him instead.”

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[cbrahma]

 

Praghosa likes to portray Indradyumna Swami as being so advanced that he doesn't get involved in any kind of management or any of the big issues involving ISKCON. He simply travels around preaching, and this activity is a sign of his advanced status. But if's he's so advanced, why is he writing such shallow literature as this Diary? Srila Prabhupada said that a fool is revealed when he opens his mouth. Frankly, I'm not alone in saying that the Swami's Diary is written by a fool, and it's reading material for fools. And if you're so foolish as to be fooled by this Diary, then all I can say is that you have a right to be fooled. Praghosa dasa is obviously among that class. And that's a big difference between us.

Rocana dasa

 

 

 

 

In his article, Praghosa dasa is testifying to the fact that according to him, his good friend the Swami conducts himself very correctly in regards to female association. We find evidence to the contrary, however, by way of dozens of pictures that are circulating on the Net of the Swami, surrounded by adoring females of all ages. As we know, he still has many years to go before he gets past the 'danger zone' and even then, Vaisnava standards dictate that he should not be in the presence of women, what to speak of being in such close and intimate proximity.

 

 

 

 

 

<CENTER></CENTER><CENTER>Rocana dasa

</CENTER>

 

 

I met this Swami at New Dwaraka. He is a 'celeb' rock star style of sannyasi. He promotes book sales of his Diary which is being read like sastra which is just a self-glorifying collection of trite anecdotes of his very important travelling activities.

He took up the class time that was dedicated to Bhagavatam to pitch his Diary and read us a chapter. I am a writer and believe me he shouldn't quit his day job.

 

[Sarva gattah]

 

An historical view of ISKCON's History

 

 

 

 

• “Human society, at the present moment, is not in the darkness of oblivion. It has made rapid progress in the fields of material comforts, education and economic development throughout the entire world. But there is a pinprick somewhere in the social body at large, and therefore there are large-scale quarrels, even over less important issues. There is need of a clue as to how humanity can become one in peace, friendship and prosperity with a common cause. Srimad-Bhagavatam will fill this need, for it is a cultural presentation for the respiritualization of the entire human society”.

In order to bring many of these disillusioned American youth into his fold, he had to adjust some of the high spiritual principles he was used to following back in India, for example he asked his new disciples to chant 16 rounds of the Hare Krsna mantra a day instead of 64 rounds.

 

 

 

 

 

In 1972 the massive book distribution programmes began all over the world and some aspiring Vaishnava historians, like myself, who was there when this massive book distribution program began, believed that this ‘distribution of books’ as well as building big ISKCON Temple basis in India, was paramount to anything else in laying the solid foundation of ISKCON that would with stand any future storm.

 

As far as I am concerned, the greatest bliss in Krishna consciousness was during those early pioneering years selling books while Prabhupada was with us. From 72 to the end of 74, they were the best years of book distribution I will always remember, I remember selling 80 of the book 'Nectar of Devotion' one Thursday in Sydney, the money we collected paid for the Melbourne Temple.

This massive book distribution program meant to some degree during the pioneering years of 1966-77, that even if a devotee was qualified or not, if they could distribute books and help lay the basic foundations of ISKCON, even in a small way, then that contribution by them to Prabhupada (most of them young girls and boys in their early 20’s) was more important during these pioneering years to Prabhupada than how sinful, fallen or immature they were.

Most of us were just juvenile confused kids disillusioned with the material values of our parents. We therefore new something was missing and no amount of material opulence given to us by our parents, could ever quench our thirst for the truth and wisdom.

Prabhupada new this, but had the realization that if he could somehow use our enthusiasm and youthful energy to spread his teachings, then centres would be established and be solid bases in all major cities around the world for those future generations who are seeking the truth.

Somehow, by Krsna’s mercy, he had to spread the message of Lord Caitanya by ‘hook or crook’. He therefore was not concerned if the ‘postmen and women’ who carried his message were qualified or not. He new, that in time, such transcendantal service would purify them.

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada had come alone with the message of Lord Caitanya from his humble abode in Vrndavana India, to a struggling sinful Western materialistic culture in 1965, that was on the verge of a technological and cultural revolution, over shadowed with the fear of an all out Nuclear war.

Regardless of this, Srila Prabhupada new that he had to speedily establish a firm foundation of his ISKCON society in the West, as well as back in India, then such Temples and the millions of books distributed, while he was here, would lay the concrete foundations that would endure any calamity the movement may go through after he departs this planet.

He also new, from his own experience with the Gaudiya Math, set up by his Spiritual Master, there also maybe infighting amongst his young immature disciples. In this way, by Krsna’s grace, Prabhupada was determined to lay a solid foundation that his ISKCON society can grow from and withstand the impending conflicts of wars between nations and the internal ISKCON ‘growing pains’ his movement may go through during its youthful developement to Adulthood.

 

In this way he believed a solid foundation of book distribution and big Temples all over the world, especially in India, would shelter his ISKCON teachings and organization from the mundane effects of Kali-yuga, not allowing the problems of the world to impede his preaching (Sankirtan) movement in the future. He believed if his movement was strongly established, it would weather any storm and continue to grow and expand into a dominant world Movement, as it is doing now, as predicted by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

In this fashion, considering the hash and violent background of the 20th Century, from where his disciples and grand disciples came from, it really was no surprise to anyone with spiritual intelligence, that after his disappearance their would be serious problems in ISKCON as devotees adjust and mature on their path to reach the high principles Prabhupada taught by his humble example.

 

And regardless of all the critics, ISKCON WILL mature out of its present immature pioneering version as the movement grows stronger in purity.

And in time within this 21st Century, due to the gradual purification, ISKCON will become a stronger more powerful voice than it already is, in spreading the pure, humble, genuin, SELFLESS teachings of Lord Caitanya, as Prabhupada had envisaged for his ISKCON creation.

cbrahma, give it time, purification will come, I do not think it is a bad thing you speak your mind because some leaders are still holding on to their 1980s old guard mentality that keeps ISKCON in the West stagnated.

In Easter Europe and Russia it is still new so they are still going through the 'novelty stage'. To see where ISKCON is presently at, we have to look at America, Canada, Great Britain, Australia-New Zealand and India.

You cannot say that the preaching is not going nicely, because it is. The Melbourne Temple is so packed on a Sunday you cannot even get in!!!

But I agree maturity is an on going thing and yours and mine 'free speech' even if we name names is important if we sincerely desire Prabhupada's REAL ISKCON to shine through - Quote

 

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Orginally posted by Svarupa

 

 

 

 

Calling a spade a spade is NOT offensive (thank Krishna we still have free speach) if the shoe fits those in leadership in the GBC. Like this Quote, certain leaders must admit to this kind of emotional abuse, otherwise they will NEVER make advancement and just stay stagnated surrounded by the hand full of naive 'yes' followers

 

 

 

 

"what about so many devotees who have been hurt by the patronizing words of ISKCON leaders over the years, I remember one Sannyasi telling a devotee to go a stick his head in the stool house and pull the chain and everything he touches turns to stool. Yes, everyone one laughed and revealed how immature and stupied they also were, but such bulling tactics were NOT funny to him, his self esteem and self worth were nil"

 

 

 

George Orwell's "Animal Farm

 

 

 

"BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS"

George Orwell

 

 

 

Actually there is nothing to reform in Krishna Consciousness because everything is already here, given to us by Prabhupada, we just have maturely follow his teachings and be not afraid to speak out when things seem not quite right.

 

 

 

 

It is NOT offensive to 'expose the mismanagement and neglect' of sannyasis and Temple authorities in the past, that spoke arrogantly and hurtfully to aspiring devotees. It is psychological and emotional abuse that is designed to break ones spirit and self respect and was possibly one of the causes that lead to this devotee having other problems.

 

 

 

 

Lets face it, if your self esteem is destroyed by lazy layback leaders who always demand respect instead of commanding it with compassion, intelligence and example, then really, what does one expect?

 

 

 

 

As long as these kind of leaders are running ISKCON and are never punished for their past abuses and mismanagement, then todays version of ISKCON will stay stagnated. The only hope then for all leadership at ALL times and places, is to always have a good look at themselves.

 

 

 

 

Therefore it is the duty of every sincere and intelligently thoughtful devotee is to always question ALL leadership in line with the teachings of the Srimad Bhagavatam, Gita and Caitanya Caritamrta, pointing out their oversights, laziness and aloofness instead of being 'silent' and scared of the external dress of GBC, Guru, Sannyasi, Regional Secretary or Temple President.

 

 

In a perfect society, their is no need for free speech because REAL freedom IS Krishna Consciousness however, ISKCON, even though in principle it IS a perfect society of Vaishnavas, in it's present pioneering version, it still has a lot to learn, and only the sincere input by devotees who want to see ISKCON become stronger, MUST speak out as long as they are following the basic principles of Prabhupada's teachings.

The only expectation then for all management at ALL times and places, is to for ever and a day have a good look at themselves and how they appear to others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, some of these so-called sannyasi's and leaders, (not all) as depicted in the above of Comrade Napoleon, are so arrogant, they think they are ISKCON and ISKCON is them and the only way to ISKCON is through them. It is certainly CERTAINLY NOT the ISKCON Prabhupada told me to surrender to in and 'do as they say'

 

 

 

 

Their version of ISKCON is NOT the ISKCON I joined in 1971 NOR THE ISKCON Prabhupada talks about in his books, letters, lectures and morning walks. And it will NOT be the future of ISKCON later in the 21st Century either because gradually, the 'REAL' ISKCON Srila Prabhupada started will outgrow their post 1977 mundane 'self centred' immature pioneering so-called leadership and ownership over ISKCON.

 

 

 

 

As Hari Sauri once said to me, 'It's good sometimes to be outside and look in to see another view, even a more clearer view of ISKCON's present development".

 

 

 

 

• George Orwell's book Animal Farm

  
  

“Do not imagine, comrades, that leadership is a pleasure. On the contrary, it is a deep and heavy responsibility. No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?” from

 

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Interesting. Anyway cbrahma I like reading your posts but suggest you go to your nearest Temple and speak out and help improve things and what ever changes should be done. However, always remember, for it to be real, it must begin with ourselves.

[bija]

 

 

And in time within this 21st Century, due to the gradual purification, ISKCON will become a stronger more powerful voice than it already is, in spreading the pure, humble, genuin, SELFLESS teachings of Lord Caitanya, as Prabhupada had envisaged for his ISKCON creation.

Awesome vision....

 

The 21st century has just begun...its wonderful isnt it;)

[cbrahma]

 

Interesting. Anyway cbrahma I like reading your posts but suggest you go to your nearest Temple and speak out and help improve things and what ever changes should be done. However, always remember, for it to be real, it must begin with ourselves.

 

 

It isn't just my mind that is speaking in the case of Indradumnya Swami.

There are several senior devotees (Rocana dasa) who are apalled by his behavior and general silliness. Beside I know what proper sannaysi behavior should be (and so should you) and I met him - so I'm not talking out of my orifice.

 

When it comes to ISKCON, I'm not holding my breath. A fish stinks from the head down. Without the dismantling of the thoroughly corrupt GBC with its unprecedented corporate control and appointment of questionable gurus, no real progress can be made.

[Beggar]

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada:

The world stands in no need of any reformer. The world has a very competent person for guiding its minutest happenings. The person who determines that there is scope for reform of the world, himself stands in need of reform. The world goes on in its own perfect way. No person can deflect it even the breadth of a hair from the course chalked out for it by providence. When we perceive any change being actually effected in the course of events of this world by the agency of any particular individual, we must know very well that the agent possesses no real power at any stage. The agent finds himself driven forward by a force belonging to a different category from himself. The course of the world does not require to be changed by the agency of any person. What is necessary is to change our outlook on this world. This was done for the contemporary generation by the mercy of Sri Chaitanya. It can only be known to recipients of his mercy. The scriptures declare that it is only necessary to listen with an open mind to the name of Krishna from the lips of a bona fide devotee. As soon as Krishna enters the listening ear, he clears up the vision of the listener so that he no longer has any ambition of ever acting the part of a reformer of any other person, because he finds that nobody is left without the very highest guidance. It is therefore his own reform, by the grace of God, whose supreme necessity and nature he is increasingly able to realize, by the eternally continuing mercy of the Supreme Lord.

From The Harmonist, May 1932, issue number 11. Article originally titled, “Sree Chaitanya in South India”. Pages 325-326.

[Sarva gattah]

Quote:

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Actually there is nothing to reform in Krishna Consciousness because everything is already here, given to us by Prabhupada, we just have maturely follow his teachings and be not afraid to speak out when things seem not quite right.

 

It is NOT offensive to 'expose the mismanagement and neglect' of sannyasis and Temple authorities in the past, that spoke arrogantly and hurtfully to aspiring devotees.

 

It is psychological and emotional abuse that is designed to break ones spirit and self respect with intent to force one to be submissive that must be exposed, corrected and healed with compassion and honesty rather than reformed as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta clearly explains

 

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[realist]

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Unfortunately, some of these so-called sannyasi's and leaders, (not all) as depicted in the above of Comrade Napoleon Maharaj, are so arrogant, they think they are ISKCON and ISKCON is them and the only way to ISKCON is through them. It is certainly CERTAINLY NOT the ISKCON Prabhupada told me to surrender to in and 'do as they say' Their version of ISKCON is NOT the ISKCON I joined in 1971 NOR THE ISKCON Prabhupada talks about in his books, letters, lectures and morning walks

 

And it will NOT be the future of ISKCON later in the 21st Century either because gradually, the 'REAL' ISKCON Srila Prabhupada started will outgrow their post 1977 mundane 'self centred' immature pioneering so-called leadership and ownership over ISKCON and patronizing atitude like -.

 

 

 

 

• George Orwell's book Animal Farm

  
  

“Do not imagine, comrades, that leadership is a pleasure. On the contrary, it is a deep and heavy responsibility. No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?” from

 

 

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</B>

His Holiness Comrade Napoleon Maharaj, the look in those eyes is amazing, it is exactly the same expression of a 'Swami' I know Although in all fairness, darkness cannot drive out darkness and ignorance trapping us; only Krishna Consciousness can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate and teach one how to forgive; only love or Bhakti can do that.

 

Hare Krsna

 

[Vigraha]

 

 

Quotes By Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura

 

1. We are put to test and trial in this world. Only those who attend the kirtana of the devotees can succeed.

2. Every spot on earth where discourses on God are held is a place of pilgrimage.

3. Possession of objects not related to Krsna is our main malady.

4. Let me not desire anything but the highest good for my worst enemies.

5. As dalliance with the body in luxury increases, so wanes the spirit of service of the Lord.

6. Those favored by God find their paths set by thorns.

7. There is no peace or happiness in our worldly life. Circumstances create turmoil and annoyance.

8. Chant the maha mantra loudly and with attachment. This will drive away inertia, worldly evils and pests.

9. Be indifferent to bazaar gossips, stick firmly to your cherished goals, no lack or impediments of the world will ever stand in your way.

10. Pay due respects to the extroverts of the world, but do not be appreciative of their manners and conduct. They are to be shaken off from your mind.

11. A devotee feels the presence of God everywhere, but one averse to the Lord denies His existence anywhere.

12. You cannot appreciate transcendental matters with the reasoning of the world. It is sheer nonsense to decry them with the measuring stick of your intellect.

13. To recite the name of Sri Krsna is bhakti.

14. Life is for the glorification of topics on Hari. If that is stopped, then what need is there to carry on life.

15. Physical illness with Hari-bhajana is preferred to physical fitness without Hari-bhajana.

16. Our span of life on earth is short. Our life will be crowned with success if the body wears out with constant discourses on Hari.

17. We are here on earth not to work as artisans for making big buildings with wood and stone but to work only as messengers for the teachings of Sri Caitanya Deva.

18. A sycophant is neither a guru or a preacher.

19. To transform the adverse desires of the jivas is the supreme duty of the most merciful. To rescue one person from the stronghold of Mahamaya is an act of superb benevolence, far superior to opening innumerable hospitals.

20. Unless we are devoted to God, secularism shall not leave us.

21. Look within. Amend yourself, rather than pry into the frailties of others.

22. In this world of Maya, averse to the Lord, full of trials and tribulations, only patience, humility and respect for others are our friends for Hari-bhajana.

23. The Lord, Gaurasundara, puts His devotees in various difficulties and associations to test their patience and strength of mind. Success depends on their good fortune.

24. When faults in others misguide and delude you - have patience, introspect, find faults in yourself. Know that others cannot harm you unless you harm yourself.

25. I wish that every selfless, tender-hearted person of Gaudiya Math will be prepared to shed two hundred gallons of blood for the nourishment of the spiritual corpus of every individual of this world.

 

 

 

[Vigraha]

 

 

 

 

<!-- </hs:element366> --><!-- <hs:element283> -->

 

"My dear King Rahugana, unless one has the opportunity to smear his entire body with the dust of the lotus feet of great devotees, one cannot realize the Absolute Truth.

 

One cannot realize the Absolute Truth simply by observing celibacy (brahmacarya), strictly following the rules and regulations of householder life, leaving home as a vanaprastha, accepting sannyasa, or undergoing severe penances in winter by keeping oneself submerged in water or surrounding oneself in summer by fire and the scorching heat of the sun.

 

There are many other processes to understand the Absolute Truth, but the Absolute Truth is only revealed to one who has attained the mercy of a great devotee." (Srimad-Bhagavatam, 5.12.12)

 

 

[suspekt]

 

 

 

I met this Swami at New Dwaraka. He is a 'celeb' rock star style of sannyasi. He promotes book sales of his Diary which is being read like sastra which is just a self-glorifying collection of trite anecdotes of his very important travelling activities.

He took up the class time that was dedicated to Bhagavatam to pitch his Diary and read us a chapter. I am a writer and believe me he shouldn't quit his day job.

 

 

 

Indramuna Swami has done more to bring krishna contest to the west than you realise. It is entirely unacceptable to talk about a spiritual master in this way, a real vaisnava would realise this.

[cbrahma]

 

Indramuna Swami has done more to bring krishna contest to the west than you realise. It is entirely unacceptable to talk about a spiritual master in this way, a real vaisnava would realise this.

How has he done this? By writing his silly diary? By associating intimately with women? By glorifying himself on the travel circuit? He is misleading rather than bringing 'krishna contest to the west'.

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

 

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

 

Quote:

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Actually there is nothing to reform in Krishna Consciousness because everything is already here, given to us by Prabhupada, we just have maturely follow his teachings and be not afraid to speak out when things seem not quite right.

[Kulapavana]

 

Indramuna Swami has done more to bring krishna contest to the west than you realise. It is entirely unacceptable to talk about a spiritual master in this way, a real vaisnava would realise this.

 

Yes, he has. He is also one of the more open-minded Iskcon gurus when it comes to cooperating with other Vaishnava organizations. He may not be perfect but he is doing a lot of good preaching.

[cbrahma]

 

Yes, he has. He is also one of the more open-minded Iskcon gurus when it comes to cooperating with other Vaishnava organizations. He may not be perfect but he is doing a lot of good preaching.

What in your estimation is 'good preaching'? He 'preached' at New Dwarka and I hardly would have called it good, interrupting the Bhagavatam class to read from his diary so he could sell it.

[Kulapavana]

 

How has he done this? By writing his silly diary? By associating intimately with women? By glorifying himself on the travel circuit? He is misleading rather than bringing 'krishna contest to the west'.

 

He organizes very successful festivals. Millions of people were exposed to KC through their media.

 

However, I agree that he should be more 'sannyasi-like' for his own protection (that is REAL sannyasa standard, not the washed up Iskcon concoction).

[Kulapavana]

 

What in your estimation is 'good preaching'? He 'preached' at New Dwarka and I hardly would have called it good, interrupting the Bhagavatam class to read from his diary so he could sell it.

 

I see the effects of that preaching: new devotees joining in Poland and Russia, and new congregation members eager to lern more about KC.

[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by cbrahma

...I met this Swami at New Dwaraka.

He is a 'celeb' rock star style of sannyasi.

He promotes book sales of his Diary which is being read like sastra which is just a self-glorifying collection of trite anecdotes of his very important travelling activities.

He took up the class time that was dedicated to Bhagavatam to pitch his Diary and read us a chapter. I am a writer and believe me he shouldn't quit his day job.<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"></v:path><o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 12pt; HEIGHT: 12pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\jtrapani\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif" o:href="http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>

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-----------------

 

cbrahma,

Author! Author!

 

What you have said is an atrociously pathetic bit of Phycho-babble.

The lessons of an itinerate monk is Sastra.

The women in the pictures are seeking darshan of a sadhu.

You are crying out for chastisements that you crave in a distorted rasa-bhasa fashion.

 

If Indrayumna Swami has been proclaimed as a Pillar Of Society (Iskcon) --then, that is what you still have to learn properly.

 

Every situation where we have had to be humbled or made a fool of, or had to suffer through others immature foolery, during our own attempts to live 24/7 in an ISKCON ship, served to advance us --but some people see providence as our friend but, others like cbrahma, see it as an impediment to carrying on with their own lives. Right cbrahma?

.......................................................................

Bhaktajan's lessons for cbrahma is learn all the qualities that he should possess:

[put them on flash-cards and strive with all your energy and attention to aquiring all 26 qualities, it's not just a passing fancy, Right cbrahma?]:

 

------------------

The 26 characteristics of a devotee are described as follows in the Sri Caitanya Caritamrita (Madhya Lila 22. 78-80):

krpalu, akrta-droha, satya-sara sama

nidosa, vadanya, mrdu, suci, akincana

sarvopakaraka, santa, krsnaika-sarana

akama, aniha, sthira, vijita-sad-guna

mita-bhuk, apramatta, manada, amani

gambhira, karuna, maitra, kavi, daksa, mauni

(1) He is very kind to everyone.

(2) He does not make anyone his enemy.

(3) He is truthful.

(4) He is equal to everyone.

(5) No one can find any fault in him.

(6) He is magnanimous.

(7) He is mild.

(8) He is always clean.

(9) He is without possessions.

(10) He works for everyone's benefit.

(11) He is very peaceful.

(12) He is always surrendered to (13) He has no material desires.

(14) He is very meek.

(15) He is steady.

(16) He controls his senses.

(17) He does not eat more than required.

(18) He is not influenced by the Lord's illusory energy.

(19) He offers respect to everyone.

(20) He does not desire any respect for himself.

(21) He is very grave.

(22) He is merciful.

(23) He is friendly.

(24) He is poetic.

(25) He is expert.

(26) He is silent.

Silent means he only talks about <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comKrishna</st1:place>.

<font color=" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> and he does not advertise himself as a great devotee.

 

.............................................................................

 

PS: cbrahma, Are you in great personal distress? You postings are getting so zany-ly kookoo.<FONT face=Verdana>

 

 

 

 

[suchandra]

Especially in Eastern Europe where people have been oppressed so heavily they might join Vaishnava institutions as kind of relief from terrible slavery of communism.

 

But as soon these people find out that leaders of Vaishnavism are materially motivated, susceptible to fall down, they reject institutionalized Vaishnavism even more resolute than let's say French people or the British.

 

These people suffered so badly and when finding out that scrupelous Vaishnava leaders are doing the same, exploiting them and even going for their broken down farmhouse, they won't just walk out the door like we Westerners and say, well, these people ruined my life, took all my possessions and spent it for a mansion in Florida, it's all Krsna's mercy. These people wont say that, their temperament is different.

[bhaktajan]

than let's say:

the German & British reformation breakaway movements away from the Holy Roman Catholic Vatitcan made everyone just walk out the door like we Yanks, portuguese, colombians, canadians did.

 

At least the Native-Americans and Puerto Ricans never rose up in rebellion--or had any where else to run to to pick-up a government subsidy checks.

 

Eureka! If we could just all collect our own government subsidy checks we wouldn't have to exploit each other any more!

 

Oh. But that's nuts! That'll never happen.

 

At least we can depend on cbrahma being depressed, and angry at his favorite monks' organization.

 

Don't worry everybody!

"cbrahma! He's our man! If he can't do it nobody can!" Hurray!

 

<HEY all cbrahma making you?re crying, Stop below! you color="black"

<HEY up worked all cbrahma making you?re crying, Stop below! you>