how offensive is it to criticize another persons diksha initiation?

[theist]

 

I don't know why I believe this, but I strongly believe a day will come when all the different branches of Lord Caitanya's tree like ISKCON and the Gaudiya matha, will all come together, work together as a fulfilment of Lord Caitanya's prediction - maybe in our life time if we become purified enough

Maybe, maybe not. But is it important really? The Lord is always One with Himself. What strikes me as important is that we become tools in the hands of the Lord for the building of such a world wide temple.

 

As tools the saw may not know about the work the hammer does and neither the saw or the hammer may know anything of the wiring of the temple. The main thing is the Builder of the temple knows the workings of all the tools and how to use them in proper order to complete the job.

 

I am not even concerned with the Gaudiya vision of Vaisnavism being universally accepted. I am for promoting God consciousness as in the theistic conception. Whatever name for God people have is fine with me, but we need to focus on the name of God and bow down before it.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

I am not even concerned with the Gaudiya vision of Vaisnavism being universally accepted. I am for promoting God consciousness as in the theistic conception. Whatever name for God people have is fine with me, but we need to focus on the name of God and bow down before it.

My sentiments exactly. If someone experiences just as much Rasa with chanting 'Mary Jesus', 'Allah-o-Akbar', or 'Om Namoh Buddha', why should they have to change to 'Hare Krishna'?

[AncientMariner]

 

My sentiments exactly. If someone experiences just as much Rasa with chanting 'Mary Jesus', 'Allah-o-Akbar', or 'Om Namoh Buddha', why should they have to change to 'Hare Krishna'?

 

 

I'll tell you why. Because Gaudiya Vaisnavism fundamentalists insist that rasa is only attainable from chanting "Hare Krishna". The rasa that other people get from chanting or praying is some sort of illusion or misguided manic high.

[theist]

 

I'll tell you why. Because Gaudiya Vaisnavism fundamentalists insist that rasa is only attainable from chanting "Hare Krishna". The rasa that other people get from chanting or praying is some sort of illusion or misguided manic high.

 

Yes and this is why I call them sectarian religionists, "God only exists in my holy book and language."

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

I'll tell you why. Because Gaudiya Vaisnavism fundamentalists insist that rasa is only attainable from chanting "Hare Krishna". The rasa that other people get from chanting or praying is some sort of illusion or misguided manic high.

Hahaha

[bija]

That's horrible. The critical guy sounds like a huge, money-grubbing jerk if all he cares about is getting ppl to go to an ISKCON temple over any other Gaudiya temple. I don't think that the sacred bond between Guru and disciple should ever be violated... that is, unless the Guru turns out to be a swindler of some type. But, even then it should be handled with sensitivity and grace.by radhey

Well here is the latest. A devotee friend contacted me last night and said the lecture in question was about some hindus:cool: who were influencing some of the Indian flock. It seems he is referring to Sri Vaisnavism. But there is also a cross-reference in this lecture about another Gaudiya influence also (and the cheap diksha)...I feel there are two topics referred to in this lecture. To be honest I can't be sure who the people are he is referring to, and may have made a mistake.

The speaker of this lecture is not a money grabber - those who take shelter under him speak very highly of his good qualities and committed service. I will not post the lecture here out of respect...but if any one would like to hear it please contact me - I have it on a server.

 

These things should be handled with utmost sensitivity - it is a very touchy subject and can hurt. After listening to the full one 1hr 20min lecture I realized it would not be possible to do small service within Iskcon walls. And if it was to be done many hurdles would re-occur continually. Personally I would not try to sway people to my Guru at all and the Iskcon management would be kind to me I am certain, but some devotees could potentially complicate things so it is best not to rock the boat. Too complex, unfortunately.

 

I stress again Radhey....the speaker of this lecture is like a father figure who cares deeply about his children...sometimes practicality in this regard may be hard medicine for some to take, I know it is for me:(.

 

 

 

[bija]

I will say that in ISKCON they have bigger demands, but I don't think the initation of other maths is CHEAP. How horrible. Initiation is not a cheap thing.

For example, I chant 16 rounds now, but initiation is not on my mind. I do not want to treat diksha cheaply. I want to make sure I am totally sincere and then take diksha, to fully show the importance of such a big and serious step of life. by Indu

 

No initiation is a cheap thing Indu, exactly. Not one process is lesser. The Guru is free to develop structures to raise his disciple, even methods of diksha may vary. Iskcons demands are not bigger than the process I am following. For example as you know I also chant the names of Nityananda and Gauranga on beads along with the Mahamantra. I have not taken brahman initiation as yet, but when I do it is required to chant 64 rounds of Nityananda and 64 rounds of Gauranga (that is minimum two hours chanting) and then minimum 16 rounds of the Hare Krsna Mahamantra (four hours in total perday). This quota is the recommended daily minimum to be stable on day to day.

 

In the initial stages of shelter diksha the demands were less than Iskcon. And in this regard I took Gaura Naam diksha more quickly, but did accept vows for some basic 4 regs in due course...so it was full maha-diksha. Gurudeva even gave me diskha differently than most other disciples, in that he allowed me to chant less names. He treats each student very personally. Some are allowed to take shelter (ashraya) diksha from Gurudeva, without following regs...and by the gradual purification of Nitaai Gaura Naam oneday take the full maha-diksha when ready (that requires the regs).

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta prabhupada orginally gave ashraya initiation into the Holy Name and then gave full diksha for brahmana initiation - gayatri mantras. Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhuapda was most intelligent and pioneering in that he gave diksha into Hari Naam, for the first time in our sampradaya. So we can see that processes can vary from Guru to Guru. This is a much misunderstood point and controversial topic in our sampradaya.

 

I can produce examples and scriptural reference for this. Infact the Guru can choose a mantra to give the dsiciple that best suits the disciple. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura orginally gave his son Srila BHaktisiddhanta initiation into the Nrsingha Mantra when he was a child. There are even examples in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta of devotees performing jaap of Sri Caitanya's Holy Name.

 

From my personal experience I am also awaiting Diksha into the Hare Krsna mahamantra and will not seek that diksha until fully ready within myself. It was a joy to be one of the original disciples in our sangha to take Nitaai-Gaura Naam diksha, by an official initiation. These two Holy Names are so potent, that they cleanse the heart rapidly without considering offences of the chanter. I was most fortuante to receive shelter and diksha into these Names, whilst in a very fallen state. They are so potent within one month of hearing them in a lecture from Gurudeva (which looking back was the real initiation), I broke an 18 year marijuana addiction, and have never looked back. Within four years my chanting of 2000 Holy Names a day, my chanting has increased manifold. Day by day it grew due to Sri Sri Nitaai-Gaura's potency. Our goal in our community is to reach the standard set by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada of 100,000 Holy Names per day. Gurudeva sets this example for us...and if we cannot reach that goal this life we at least honor the lakshesvara devotees deeply and never minimize that standard.

 

I do not think in any way that one institutions diksha procedure is less than the other....Nityananda Prabhu and his representitives distribute mercy as they see fit. I stress again no process is inferior, but each empowered Guru may implement instruction to suit the disciples qualifications, to rapidly give the disciple spiritual advancement. In a sense that is the whole essence of diksha, a new birth.

 

It may take me some time, but I can produce numerous scriptural references to support my points in this post if requested.

[AncientMariner]

 

I will say that in ISKCON they have bigger demands, but I don't think the initation of other maths is CHEAP. How horrible. Initiation is not a cheap thing.

For example, I chant 16 rounds now, but initiation is not on my mind. I do not want to treat diksha cheaply. I want to make sure I am totally sincere and then take diksha, to fully show the importance of such a big and serious step of life. by Indu

 

No initiation is a cheap thing Indu, exactly. Not one process is lesser. The Guru is free to develop structures to raise his disciple, even methods of diksha may vary. Iskcons demands are not bigger than the process I am following. For example as you know I also chant the names of Nityananda and Gauranga on beads along with the Mahamantra. I have not taken brahman initiation as yet, but when I do it is required to chant 64 rounds of Nityananda and 64 rounds of Gauranga (that is minimum two hours chanting) and then minimum 16 rounds of the Hare Krsna Mahamantra (four hours in total perday). This quota is the recommended daily minimum to be stable on day to day.

 

In the initial stages of shelter diksha the demands were less than Iskcon. And in this regard I took Gaura Naam diksha more quickly, but did accept vows for some basic 4 regs in due course...so it was full maha-diksha. Gurudeva even gave me diskha differently than most other disciples, in that he allowed me to chant less names. He treats each student very personally. Some are allowed to take shelter (ashraya) diksha from Gurudeva, without following regs...and by the gradual purification of Nitaai Gaura Naam oneday take the full maha-diksha when ready (that requires the regs).

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta prabhupada orginally gave ashraya initiation into the Holy Name and then gave full diksha for brahmana initiation - gayatri mantras. Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhuapda was most intelligent and pioneering in that he gave diksha into Hari Naam, for the first time in our sampradaya. So we can see that processes can vary from Guru to Guru. This is a much misunderstood point and controversial topic in our sampradaya.

 

I can produce examples and scriptural reference for this. Infact the Guru can choose a mantra to give the dsiciple that best suits the disciple. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura orginally gave his son Srila BHaktisiddhanta initiation into the Nrsingha Mantra when he was a child. There are even examples in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta of devotees performing jaap of Sri Caitanya's Holy Name.

 

From my personal experience I am also awaiting Diksha into the Hare Krsna mahamantra and will not seek that diksha until fully ready within myself. It was a joy to be one of the original disciples in our sangha to take Nitaai-Gaura Naam diksha, by an official initiation. These two Holy Names are so potent, that they cleanse the heart rapidly without considering offences of the chanter. I was most fortuante to receive shelter and diksha into these Names, whilst in a very fallen state. They are so potent within one month of hearing them in a lecture from Gurudeva (which looking back was the real initiation), I broke an 18 year marijuana addiction, and have never looked back. Within four years my chanting of 2000 Holy Names a day, my chanting has increased manifold. Day by day it grew due to Sri Sri Nitaai-Gaura's potency. Our goal in our community is to reach the standard set by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada of 100,000 Holy Names per day. Gurudeva sets this example for us...and if we cannot reach that goal this life we at least honor the lakshesvara devotees deeply and never minimize that standard.

 

I do not think in any way that one institutions diksha procedure is less than the other....Nityananda Prabhu and his representitives distribute mercy as they see fit. I stress again no process is inferior, but each empowered Guru may implement instruction to suit the disciples qualifications, to rapidly give the disciple spiritual advancement. In a sense that is the whole essence of diksha, a new birth.

 

It may take me some time, but I can produce numerous scriptural references to support my points in this post if requested.

 

 

I have to admit your Vaisnava ettiquette is truly wonderful and whoever your teacher is they are teaching you well because you seem to be very respectful to all people even if they differ from you philosophically.

[bija]

 

Maybe, maybe not. But is it important really? The Lord is always One with Himself. What strikes me as important is that we become tools in the hands of the Lord for the building of such a world wide temple.

As tools the saw may not know about the work the hammer does and neither the saw or the hammer may know anything of the wiring of the temple. The main thing is the Builder of the temple knows the workings of all the tools and how to use them in proper order to complete the job.

I am not even concerned with the Gaudiya vision of Vaisnavism being universally accepted. I am for promoting God consciousness as in the theistic conception. Whatever name for God people have is fine with me, but we need to focus on the name of God and bow down before it. by Theist

Over the years at Audarya Fellowship Theist some have given you are hard time for your understandings of the philosophy, but like in this post you bring out some gems. There is much to be said on a positive light for your hermit approach....you have become free of so many restraints and broad in your vision. Proof enough that the Lord Knows what is best for each of his children. Great post!

 

Intro to CC Adi 9

A summary of Chapter Nine has been given as follows by Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura in his Amṛta-pravāha-bhāṣya. In this chapter the author of Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta has devised a figurative example by describing “the desire tree of bhakti.” He considers Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who is known as Viśvambhara, to be the gardener of this tree because He is the main personality who has taken charge of it.

[bija]

I have to admit your Vaisnava ettiquette is truly wonderful and whoever your teacher is they are teaching you well because you seem to be very respectful to all people even if they differ from you philosophically. mariner

I never wish to Guru promote Mariner. He is a great loving sadhu, and dear friend. I hope I can live with him oneday. He teaches in few words, and his presence is felt within the heart in silence mostly. Enough said. He has time for the biggest sinners - and teaches us from day one to never criticize any other math, group, or devotee. He has learnt from his life experience many lessons.

 

But ofcousre we must speak truth, wisely.

[AncientMariner]

 

I have to admit your Vaisnava ettiquette is truly wonderful and whoever your teacher is they are teaching you well because you seem to be very respectful to all people even if they differ from you philosophically. mariner

I never wish to Guru promote Mariner. He is a great loving sadhu, and dear friend. I hope I can live with him oneday. He teaches in few words, and his presence is felt within the heart in silence mostly. Enough said. He has time for the biggest sinners - and teaches us from day one to never criticize any other math, group, or devotee. He has learnt from his life experience many lessons.

 

But ofcousre we must speak truth, wisely.

 

 

When I see people manifest truly brahmanical qualities as a result of associating with a particular guru I have no problem if they show enthusiasm for a particular guru, living or not living so to speak. I do not consider that guru promotion at all. Guru promotion to me is when you tell people they basically have to surrender to their particular guru or they are doomed. I can respect also if you choose to keep your guru relationship between you and your guru seeing how these forums can turn into a real hot zone etc.

[bija]

Actually I have mixed feelings about starting this thread. I hope it can shed some light that we are all one family of a beautiful Caitanya tree. And I agree with Sarva oneday we all will deepen enough to unite. Infact the Caitanya Tree is already one!

 

http://causelessmercy.com/Adi9.htm

 

http://causelessmercy.com/Adi10.htm

 

 

Yes, I have gradually learnt over the last year it is a fact, that the ISKCON organization is NOT the only way to Krishna, although Lord Caitanya is in this age of Kali-yuga. There are many devotees of Lord Caitanya all over the world who are not members of the ISKCON organization

I don't know why I believe this, but I strongly believe a day will come when all the different branches of Lord Caitanya's tree like ISKCON and the Gaudiya matha, will all come together, work together as a fulfilment of Lord Caitanya's prediction - maybe in our life time if we become purified enough

Because knowledge is evolving... posted by sarva

[bija]

....respectful to all people even if they differ from you philosophically. by ancient

Some years ago Ancient, on my spiritual quest I came across some very intolerant people, who were holding faith in God to justify their actions. When I was in the transition from my Christian upbringing to Vaisnavism, certain friends became very hostile, to the point of seeing me as a devil and danger to their families.

This had a huge impact on me, to lose close friendships in such a way. I began to observe, and think deeply, and wonder why this way - with religionists? I received a small realization in my heart....

 

Basically I realized God is super wonderful. He does not need defending, he is simply perfect. When I realized that He is satisfied within (and takes no offence), I found within I had nothing really to defend either. No belief system to defend. Well, ofcourse I still have pride and ego, but I do not need to defend my faith - it is founded upon Sri GauraHari!

 

In the protestant reform king James was called 'the defender of the faith'. There is a time to defend Krsna. For example mother Yashoda desires to protect him, and the gopies even offer their own bodies to protect Krsna's feet from thorns. The perfected soul has a high spiritual rasa. This is real defender of the faith - nurture and care.

 

Personally I do not have such a high devotional rasa. (but I do worship these devotees). So for me it is best not to be a defender of a shadow. But saying that this high rasa of care can first manifest in service to Sri Guru, and love for him. That is where we can get into difficulty in the neophyte stage.

 

Everything is integral, the neophyte stage is not wrong! It is an integral stepping stone on the path back home - the path of positive and progressive immortality. 'Positive and progressive immortality' is one of the greatest and realized sayings of a sadhu I have ever heard. Our dear friend on this forum Beggar Prabhu knows this saying well, his posts on this forum from that sadhu are like nectar springs!

 

The sadhu will also stress that we must raise ourselves above the neophyte platform eventually. How to do that?

 

See ya later Ancient, I am heading into town to pull a grass seat on the green and read some bhakti books lol ...by the way I still am prone to some metal!!! Die to Live!!!

 

[AncientMariner]

I read in Prabhupadas books somewhere that sometimes the Lord will take away friends and family etc. as a special mercy so that the devotee will have no choice but to become dependant on Krishna so in that sense in a way you were blessed to lose your friends although I know it hurts as I have had some similar experiences in that regard.

[bija]

Yeah.

 

There is also another nice purport in Bhagavatam that at some stage sin is not sin technically....just the last purifications - the final winding down! Srila Prabhupada calls such things 'special mercy'. Like final lessons. I will try and find the verse if I recall.

 

cya!

[bija]

http://vedabase.net/sb/10/2/28/en

 

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.2.28

tvam eka evāsya sataḥ prasūtis

tvaḿ sannidhānaḿ tvam anugrahaś ca

tvan-māyayā saḿvṛta-cetasas tvāḿ

paśyanti nānā na vipaścito ye

SYNONYMS

tvam — You (O Lord); ekaḥ — being one without a second, You are everything; eva — indeed; asya sataḥ — of this cosmic manifestation now visible; prasūtiḥ — the original source; tvam — Your Lordship; sannidhānam — the conservation of all such energy when everything is annihilated; tvam — Your Lordship; anugrahaḥ ca — and the maintainer; tvat-māyayā — by Your illusory, external energy; saḿvṛta-cetasaḥ — those whose intelligence is covered by such illusory energy; tvām — unto You; paśyanti — observe; nānā — many varieties; na — not; vipaścitaḥ — learned scholars or devotees; ye — who are.

TRANSLATION

The efficient cause of this material world, manifested with its many varieties as the original tree, is You, O Lord. You are also the maintainer of this material world, and after annihilation You are the one in whom everything is conserved. Those who are covered by Your external energy cannot see You behind this manifestation, but theirs is not the vision of learned devotees.

PURPORT

Various demigods, beginning from Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva and even Viṣṇu, are supposed to be the creator, maintainer and annihilator of this material world, but actually they are not. The fact is that everything is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, manifested in varieties of energy. Ekam evādvitīyaḿ brahma. There is no second existence. Those who are truly vipaścit, learned, are those who have reached the platform of understanding and observing the Supreme Personality of Godhead in any condition of life. premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Brahma-saḿhitā 5.38). Learned devotees accept even conditions of distress as representing the presence of the Supreme Lord. When a devotee is in distress, he sees that the Lord has appeared as distress just to relieve or purify the devotee from the contamination of the material world. While one is within this material world, one is in various conditions, and therefore a devotee sees a condition of distress as but another feature of the Lord. Tat te'nukampāḿ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ (Bhāg. 10.14.8). A devotee, therefore, regards distress as a great favor of the Lord because he understands that he is being cleansed of contamination. Teṣām ahaḿ samuddhartā mṛtyu-saḿsāra-sāgarāt (Bg. 12.7). The appearance of distress is a negative process intended to give the devotee relief from this material world, which is called mṛtyu-saḿsāra, or the constant repetition of birth and death. To save a surrendered soul from repeated birth and death, the Lord purifies him of contamination by offering him a little distress. This cannot be understood by a nondevotee, but a devotee can see this because he is vipaścit, or learned. A nondevotee, therefore, is perturbed in distress, but a devotee welcomes distress as another feature of the Lord. Sarvaḿ khalv idaḿ brahma. A devotee can actually see that there is only the Supreme Personality of Godhead and no second entity. Ekam evādvitīyam. There is only the Lord, who presents Himself in different energies.

Persons who are not in real knowledge think that Brahmā is the creator, Viṣṇu the maintainer and Śiva the annihilator and that the different demigods are intended to fulfill diverse purposes. Thus they create diverse purposes and worship various demigods to have these purposes fulfilled (kāmais tais tair hṛta jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]). A devotee, however, knows that these various demigods are but different parts of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and that these parts need not be worshiped. As the Lord says in Bhagavad-gītā (9.23):

ye 'py anya-devatā bhaktā

yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ

te 'pi mām eva kaunteya

yajanty avidhi-pūrvakam

"Whatever a man may sacrifice to other gods, O son of Kuntī, is really meant for Me alone, but it is offered without true understanding." There is no need to worship the demigods, for this is avidhi, not in order. Simply by surrendering oneself at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, one can completely discharge one's duties; there is no need to worship various deities or demigods. These various divinities are observed by the mūḍhas, fools, who are bewildered by the three modes of material nature (tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair ebhiḥ sarvam idaḿ jagat). Such fools cannot understand that the real source of everything is the Supreme Personality of Godhead (mohitaḿ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam). Not being disturbed by the Lord's various features, one should concentrate upon and worship the Supreme Lord (mām ekaḿ śaraṇaḿ vraja). This should be the guiding principle of one's life.

[indulekhadasi]

 

I will say that in ISKCON they have bigger demands, but I don't think the initation of other maths is CHEAP. How horrible. Initiation is not a cheap thing.

For example, I chant 16 rounds now, but initiation is not on my mind. I do not want to treat diksha cheaply. I want to make sure I am totally sincere and then take diksha, to fully show the importance of such a big and serious step of life. by Indu

 

No initiation is a cheap thing Indu, exactly. Not one process is lesser. The Guru is free to develop structures to raise his disciple, even methods of diksha may vary. Iskcons demands are not bigger than the process I am following. For example as you know I also chant the names of Nityananda and Gauranga on beads along with the Mahamantra. I have not taken brahman initiation as yet, but when I do it is required to chant 64 rounds of Nityananda and 64 rounds of Gauranga (that is minimum two hours chanting) and then minimum 16 rounds of the Hare Krsna Mahamantra (four hours in total perday). This quota is the recommended daily minimum to be stable on day to day.

 

In the initial stages of shelter diksha the demands were less than Iskcon. And in this regard I took Gaura Naam diksha more quickly, but did accept vows for some basic 4 regs in due course...so it was full maha-diksha. Gurudeva even gave me diskha differently than most other disciples, in that he allowed me to chant less names. He treats each student very personally. Some are allowed to take shelter (ashraya) diksha from Gurudeva, without following regs...and by the gradual purification of Nitaai Gaura Naam oneday take the full maha-diksha when ready (that requires the regs).

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta prabhupada orginally gave ashraya initiation into the Holy Name and then gave full diksha for brahmana initiation - gayatri mantras. Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhuapda was most intelligent and pioneering in that he gave diksha into Hari Naam, for the first time in our sampradaya. So we can see that processes can vary from Guru to Guru. This is a much misunderstood point and controversial topic in our sampradaya.

 

I can produce examples and scriptural reference for this. Infact the Guru can choose a mantra to give the dsiciple that best suits the disciple. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura orginally gave his son Srila BHaktisiddhanta initiation into the Nrsingha Mantra when he was a child. There are even examples in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta of devotees performing jaap of Sri Caitanya's Holy Name.

 

From my personal experience I am also awaiting Diksha into the Hare Krsna mahamantra and will not seek that diksha until fully ready within myself. It was a joy to be one of the original disciples in our sangha to take Nitaai-Gaura Naam diksha, by an official initiation. These two Holy Names are so potent, that they cleanse the heart rapidly without considering offences of the chanter. I was most fortuante to receive shelter and diksha into these Names, whilst in a very fallen state. They are so potent within one month of hearing them in a lecture from Gurudeva (which looking back was the real initiation), I broke an 18 year marijuana addiction, and have never looked back. Within four years my chanting of 2000 Holy Names a day, my chanting has increased manifold. Day by day it grew due to Sri Sri Nitaai-Gaura's potency. Our goal in our community is to reach the standard set by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada of 100,000 Holy Names per day. Gurudeva sets this example for us...and if we cannot reach that goal this life we at least honor the lakshesvara devotees deeply and never minimize that standard.

 

I do not think in any way that one institutions diksha procedure is less than the other....Nityananda Prabhu and his representitives distribute mercy as they see fit. I stress again no process is inferior, but each empowered Guru may implement instruction to suit the disciples qualifications, to rapidly give the disciple spiritual advancement. In a sense that is the whole essence of diksha, a new birth.

 

It may take me some time, but I can produce numerous scriptural references to support my points in this post if requested.

 

Exactly Bija prabhuji, you got my point.

[bija]

http://vedabase.net/sb/10/14/8/

 

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.14.8

tat te 'nukampāḿ su-samīkṣamāṇo

bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaḿ vipākam

hṛd-vāg-vapurbhir vidadhan namas te

jīveta yo mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk

SYNONYMS

tat — therefore; te — Your; anukampām — compassion; su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ — earnestly hoping for; bhuñjānaḥ — enduring; eva — certainly; ātma-kṛtam — done by himself; vipākam — the fruitive results; hṛt — with his heart; vāk — words; vapurbhiḥ — and body; vidadhan — offering; namaḥ — obeisances; te — unto You; jīveta — lives; yaḥ — anyone who; mukti-pade — to the position of liberation; saḥ — he; dāya-bhāk — the rightful heir.

TRANSLATION

My dear Lord, one who earnestly waits for You to bestow Your causeless mercy upon him, all the while patiently suffering the reactions of his past misdeeds and offering You respectful obeisances with his heart, words and body, is surely eligible for liberation, for it has become his rightful claim.

PURPORT

Śrīla Śrīdhara Svāmī explains in his commentary that just as a legitimate son has to simply remain alive to gain an inheritance from his father, one who simply remains alive in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, following the regulative principles of bhakti-yoga, automatically becomes eligible to receive the mercy of the Personality of Godhead. In other words, he will be promoted to the kingdom of God.

The word su-samīkṣamāṇa indicates that a devotee earnestly awaits the mercy of the Supreme Lord even while suffering the painful effects of previous sinful activities. Lord Kṛṣṇa explains in the Bhagavad-gītā that a devotee who fully surrenders unto Him is no longer liable to suffer the reactions of his previous karma. However, because in his mind a devotee may still maintain the remnants of his previous sinful mentality, the Lord removes the last vestiges of the enjoying spirit by giving His devotee punishments that may sometimes resemble sinful reactions. The purpose of the entire creation of God is to rectify the living entity's tendency to enjoy without the Lord, and therefore the particular punishment given for a sinful activity is specifically designed to curtail the mentality that produced the activity. Although a devotee has surrendered to the Lord's devotional service, until he is completely perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness he may maintain a slight inclination to enjoy the false happiness of this world. The Lord therefore creates a particular situation to eradicate this remaining enjoying spirit. This unhappiness suffered by a sincere devotee is not technically a karmic reaction; it is rather the Lord's special mercy for inducing His devotee to completely let go of the material world and return home, back to Godhead.

A sincere devotee earnestly desires to go back to the Lord's abode. Therefore he willingly accepts the Lord's merciful punishment and continues offering respects and obeisances to the Lord with his heart, words and body. Such a bona fide servant of the Lord, considering all hardship a small price to pay for gaining the personal association of the Lord, certainly becomes a legitimate son of God, as indicated here by the words dāya-bhāk. Just as one cannot approach the sun without becoming fire, one cannot approach the supreme pure, Lord Kṛṣṇa, without undergoing a rigid purificatory process, which may appear like suffering but which is in fact a curative treatment administered by the personal hand of the Lord.

[bija]

Exactly Bija prabhuji, you got my point. by Indu

Yes Indu, I can see you heart in this matter. It shines...I aspire to meet such souls oneday...

[indulekhadasi]

LOL...people are mistaking me to be a great personality lately. It makes me laugh, but I hope they are not serious because that would be pretty bad!

[bija]

I understand how you feel:P

 

Only if they knew:cool:....sshhh!!

 

(the cave of the heart;))

[indulekhadasi]

Hey, I got a quick question for you. How many rounds of Nityananda, Gauranga and Hare Krishna do you chant? I just want to familiarize myself with Swami Gaurangapada's ideas, I respect him very much.

[bija]

64 rounds of the 'Nityananda' mantraraja and 64 rounds of the 'Gauranga' mantraraja before beginning rounds of the Hare Krsna Mahamantra, but this is no restriction - if we can we can chant more rounds of all 3 mantras great. I also chant one round of the panca-tattva mantra before each round of the maha-mantra. The more the mind is focused on Gaura Tattva the better I feel - there is no loss in Their rememberance.

 

I am not steady in devotion, so keep a minimum standard, which was also taught by Srila Prabhupada. Without fail I will chant the Mantrarajas everyday.

 

When I took Gaura-naam Diksha he instructed me to chant 10 rounds of each without fail everyday. He told me, 'Our Lordships are so merciful, they give us so many blessings, surely you can do this everyday in gratitude'.

 

Gurudeva will give full maha-disksha into Gaura Naam if we take a vow to chant 10-10-1 consecutively and keep 4 basic regs. The gradual increase begins from there - a lifetime progression you might say. He has said taking a vow in chanting is very potent practice.

 

Presently I am in the offence clearing stage and working toward steadiness oneday hopefully - sadhana. Books such as Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindu-bindu and Madhurya Kadambini are wonderful guides in the practice.

 

All these books are online here http://nitaaiveda.com so everything is at our disposal when needed. Praise Krsna for the internet when we are on our own - good to be a 21st century second lifer .

 

I hope devotees can be gentle in these discussions. I am hesitant to open on forums Indu - but anyhow maybe it is good to discuss our differences and relish each others service moods. Thx. We need to be able to dilaogue to strengten our preaching movement.

[Sarva gattah]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>I don't know why I believe this, but I strongly believe a day will come when all the different branches of Lord Caitanya's tree like ISKCON and the Gaudiya matha, will all come together, work together as a fulfilment of Lord Caitanya's prediction - maybe in our life time if we become purified enough

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Maybe, maybe not. But is it important really? The Lord is always One with Himself. What strikes me as important is that we become tools in the hands of the Lord for the building of such a world wide temple.

 

As tools the saw may not know about the work the hammer does and neither the saw or the hammer may know anything of the wiring of the temple. The main thing is the Builder of the temple knows the workings of all the tools and how to use them in proper order to complete the job.

 

I am not even concerned with the Gaudiya vision of Vaisnavism being universally accepted. I am for promoting God consciousness as in the theistic conception. Whatever name for God people have is fine with me, but we need to focus on the name of God and bow down before it.

 

Meeting Vaishnavas from different communities, from May 9 to May 11 a breakthrough took place in Goloka Dhama, Germany: over 100 devotees of different gurus and maths from all over Germany and Switzerland came together for the first time in history. Dina Sharana dd, the GBC representative for Germany, also attended.

 

Right from the beginning the atmosphere was very cordial and nice. The open and honest gatherings with all the devotees were so exciting that even after hours no one wanted to leave, although breakfast prasadam was already waiting.

 

SEE - http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/447086-vaisnava-ecumenism-conscience-heart-go-beyond-forms-institutions.html

[bija]

The open and honest gatherings with all the devotees were so exciting that even after hours no one wanted to leave... posted by sarva

Wonderful, who would want to wake up from such a beautiful dream (reality). That vision must be in the heart of alot of us these days. We are just not quite there yet....the feet are itchy though:P.

 

Are we slowly waking from the dream slumber, of the illusion of the fall.