The Highest Vaisnava Sees Himself as the Lowest of All

[Beggar]

The Highest Vaisnava Sees Himself as the Lowest of All

from The Gaudiya Volume 24, Issue 7

by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada

Those who are fit possess an abundant power of devotion. They are strong. I should not apply myself to finding out the shortcomings of the Vaisnavas, condemning service to Lord Visnu or seeking to establish my own point of view by neglecting the method that may enable me to serve the Lord and His devotees. No language can describe the havoc that is wrought in human life by such arrogance. I make this submission with all humility: "Kindly refrain from merely imitating the conduct of the Vaisnavas and please always follow their line of thought." There is no relationship for us other than with the devotees of Visnu. Relationship with other people can only aggravate the desire for sensuous gratification.

Many years have now passed over me one by one. I at last realise that there is no other help for me than the mercy of the holy feet of the Vaisnavas. Every one of my acts is worthy of contempt. Yet I pray to those who look upon me from above that, if they consider it allowable for me to follow their conduct and teachings, they enable me to no longer have a contemptible attitude. I pray to them to kindly impart to me the strength and fitness needed in order to communicate their power to those who are unintelligent, ignorant and devoid of all strength.

He who serves Lord Hari counts himself as the least of all entities. He is lifted to the highest order of the Vaisnavas when he can feel himself the last of all. He can then proclaim the message of the highest devotion to Lord Hari.

"The best of all people deems himself to be less than all others." Such is the great dictum.

It is necessary for the best person to scrutinize his own ineligibility. Why should a person be anxious to pry into the defects of others when he does not seek to scrutinize his own conduct? Is this the disposition of a Vaisnava? On the other hand, even those who are low in the scale of service may attain the higher level. Let us remember the verse: "What to speak of people who listen to and remember the instructions of the spiritual scriptures with care, even those of low birth [outside of varnasrama dharma], women, sudras, hunas, savaras and the birds of the air - can know God and prevail over His deluding power if they follow the conduct of the devoted servants of the Lord, who covers all the worlds by His wonderful strides" (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.7.46).

"The acts and expressions of the Vaisnavas cannot be understood even by the wise." The devotees are attached to the Lord, who pervades the worlds with His wonderful strides. Let us not be misled by appearances. Many people have been liable to mistake the pebble for the pearl, the snake for the rope and evil for good by relying on appearances and thus falling victim to delusion. It is only when a person allows himself to fall into the clutches of self-delusion that his senses show their eagerness to supply him with the cravings incidental to the phenomenal world because he supposes himself to be an inhabitant of the same. We should carefully consider how we will be delivered from being exploited like this by the deluding energy. Adopting the mentality of a lord in order to compensate for our present inadequacies will never bring us relief. Nor will it bring us relief to avoid what certain hasty observers have been pleased to dub " the slave mentality " of the devotees of God. Such modes of thinking accelerate our march towards the inferno by plunging us into the course of sensuous indulgence.

[bija]

 

We should carefully consider how we will be delivered from being exploited like this by the deluding energy. Adopting the mentality of a lord in order to compensate for our present inadequacies will never bring us relief.

 

If we look closely at our own deceit in this conditioned stage - every word, and every move is posturing for Lordship. By the Holy Names purifying presence we can begin to see the humble nature of a true Vaisnava by observation of the other (by seeing their service mood). But in the same moment we are compelled to speak, if not compelled to verbalize, in freedom of heart without fear even though conditioned. Therefore the need in seeing this same paradox in other sincere souls that exists within us, to find harmony and appreciation (for the awakening of grace). The paradox of conditioned ego and the need for Hari katha exists in alll of us. If that makes sense in my mumble jumble of words.

 

Thanks for posting this Beggar, its relishable to contemplate these words. I wonder what the mood of a true saint must be like to be around. Maybe we could simply feel his presence, in silence without words.

 

If we must talk, and we have to, then Hari Katha seems to be the remedy of the tongue lol .

[Vigraha]

 

The Highest Vaisnava Sees Himself as the Lowest of All

from The Gaudiya Volume 24, Issue 7

by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada

 

Yes, one just does not immitate that, he or she really believes they are the most fallen.

 

Thanks Beggar, a great caring post

[Vigraha]

 

 

 

nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhu-tale

srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine

 

namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine

nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine

 

 

 

 

"I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who is very dear to Lord Krsna, having taken shelter at His lotus feet.

 

"Our respectful obeisances are unto you, O spiritual master, servant of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of Lord Caitanya-deva and delivering the Western countries, which are filled with impersonalism and voidism."

 

(Srila Prabhupada Pranati)

 

[cbrahma]

It seems so many neophytes are focused in their sadhana with trying to prove they are such and such - meeting qualifications - satisfying standards of being a Vaisnava - showing spiritual advancement etc...

How is endeavouring to prove one has attained some adhikara bring one to a point of thinking one is the lowest of the low?

It all seems backwards somehow.

[Beggar]

Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaj,

 

During the time of my Guru Maharaj’s preaching, one newspaper in Calcutta complained, ‘Gaudiya Math is spreading slave mentality to the country — this is most objectionable. This will destroy the military spirit of the land, so that can’t be encouraged to spread slavery. They have no patriotism, what are they?’ The atheists cannot tolerate the call to come hither and live in Vaikuntha. They can’t tolerate the spread of this ‘poison’ within the country.

“But Saraswati Thakur countered, ‘Gaudiya Math stands for the dignity of the human race, not slavery*.’ That human soul, any soul, how from above he can get his chance, and he can rise up. Such a prospect a jiva has, the adoration of the almighty, of Svayam Bhagavan.

*Meaning the mundane conception of slavery

 

 

 

Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaj,

 

We need this wholesale and radical cure: ‘I do not belong to me, I have my eternal master.’ We need slave mentality. “One day Srila Prabhupad Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur sitting in his bhajan kutir told the devotees, ‘All the residents of the Math should always be engaged in the service of Sri Hari, Guru and Vaisnava. They should always be engaged in hearing Hari-katha and discussing Hari-katha. If one becomes averse to Hari-katha and Hari-seva then one will again be entangled by one’s material desires. Then one’s time will be spent in gossiping, criticising others, fighting with others and gratifying one’s senses. If the residents of the Math do not understand that Vaisnava-seva is the most beneficial thing, then they will not make progress in the realm of devotion. One has to cultivate one’s Krishna-conciousness by sincerely serving the Vaisnavas and by endeavouring to please the Vaisnava with body, mind and soul. By the petition of a Vaisnava, merciful Krishna will give His mercy to this sinful soul.’ This we have to remember all the time.

[theist]

 

It seems so many neophytes are focused in their sadhana with trying to prove they are such and such - meeting qualifications - satisfying standards of being a Vaisnava - showing spiritual advancement etc...

How is endeavouring to prove one has attained some adhikara bring one to a point of thinking one is the lowest of the low?

It all seems backwards somehow.

 

It is backward but at the same time a beginning stage we all go through. Afterall we have been habituated to pretending to be what we are not since time immermorial. Especially in human form we shown much bluffing and pretense trying to convince others we are number one in so many embarassing ways.

 

So this is the purpose of a siksa guru. Not just to distribute knowledge by to remind the disciple of his humble position. Correcting others without hurting their faith and discouraging them is not an easy thing to do.

 

Chopping the false ego to free the soul trapped within takes an expert and loving touch. When we criticze others we may make them feel small but simple loss of self esteem is not the same thing as being humble before God.

 

This is the value of having a siksa guru who is also in bodily form and interacting with him frequently.

[krsna]

 

Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaj,

 

We need this wholesale and radical cure: ‘I do not belong to me, I have my eternal master.’ We need slave mentality. “One day Srila Prabhupad Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur sitting in his bhajan kutir told the devotees, ‘All the residents of the Math should always be engaged in the service of Sri Hari, Guru and Vaisnava. They should always be engaged in hearing Hari-katha and discussing Hari-katha. If one becomes averse to Hari-katha and Hari-seva then one will again be entangled by one’s material desires. Then one’s time will be spent in gossiping, criticising others, fighting with others and gratifying one’s senses. If the residents of the Math do not understand that Vaisnava-seva is the most beneficial thing, then they will not make progress in the realm of devotion. One has to cultivate one’s Krishna-conciousness by sincerely serving the Vaisnavas and by endeavouring to please the Vaisnava with body, mind and soul. By the petition of a Vaisnava, merciful Krishna will give His mercy to this sinful soul.’ This we have to remember all the time.

 

 

 

Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaj,

 

Deep, subtle and confidential. Who is actually worthy of entering into the purport of these words? Only those who have paid the highest price of total, complete and whole-sale dedication of body, mind and words to the instructions given to them by Sri Guru!

[cbrahma]

 

 

This is the value of having a siksa guru who is also in bodily form and interacting with him frequently.

So much for Prabhupada

[theist]

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by theist

This is the value of having a siksa guru who is also in bodily form and interacting with him frequently.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> So much for Prabhupada

 

I see you totally missed the point of my post.

[suchandra]

 

I see you totally missed the point of my post.

 

"The Highest Vaisnava Sees Himself as the Lowest of All."

 

Prabhupada would never have made such a statement, indicating that the person who indoctrinates this must be the highest Vaisnava of all.

What I have understood from Srila Prabhupada's books is that a Vaisnava is very humble and carries the verse 'trnad api sunicena' around his neck like a necklace.

 

trnad api sunicena

taror api sahisnuna

amanina manadena

kirtaniyah sada harih

 

Thinking oneself to be even lower and more worthless than insignificant grass which has been trampled beneath everyone's feet, being more tolerant than a tree, being prideless, and offering respect to all others according to their respective positions, one should contentiously chant the holy names of Sri Hari.

(Sri Siksastakam, verse three)

[Beggar]

 

"The Highest Vaisnava Sees Himself as the Lowest of All."

 

Prabhupada would never have made such a statement, indicating that the person who indoctrinates this must be the highest Vaisnava of all.

What I have understood from Srila Prabhupada's books is that a Vaisnava is very humble and carries the verse 'trnad api sunicena' around his neck like a necklace.

 

trnad api sunicena

taror api sahisnuna

amanina manadena

kirtaniyah sada harih

 

Thinking oneself to be even lower and more worthless than insignificant grass which has been trampled beneath everyone's feet, being more tolerant than a tree, being prideless, and offering respect to all others according to their respective positions, one should contentiously chant the holy names of Sri Hari.

(Sri Siksastakam, verse three)

Of course the translation is really, "constantly chant the holy names of Sri Hari." That's quite a Freudian slip!

 

Srila Prabhupada would never have made what statement? That, "The highest Vaisnava sees himself as the lowest of all?" Or is it, "This is the value of having a siksa guru who is also in bodily form and interacting with him frequently?" And you are saying that either one is "indoctrination". Well, of course it's "indoctrination" into the cult of Mahaprabhu. Is there something wrong with this? Do you see the evil eye of the GBC and the GM everywhere? Then you quote : "Thinking oneself to be even lower and more worthless than insignificant grass which has been trampled beneath everyone's feet, being more tolerant than a tree, being prideless, and offering respect to all others according to their respective positions, one should [constantly] contentiously chant the holy names of Sri Hari."

Who can fully do this except for the highest Vaisnava? And you have understood this from Srila Prabhupada's books? Which book? Perhaps Caitanya Caritamrta? It's almost like you attribute this verse to Prabhupada himself as if to acknowledge that he is coming in Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Rupa Goswami's line is not worth mentioning. For you does "all glories to Srila Prabhupada" mean all for him but none left over for the guru parampara, Mahaprabhu - Krsna? What in the world are you saying?

[shvu]

 

The Highest Vaisnava Sees Himself as the Lowest of All...

 

So the highest Vaishnava sees himself as the lowest.

 

What about the second highest Vaishnava? If he sees himself as the lowest too, then we have two people of different levels competing for the same position which will result in one being incorrect.

 

The other option is the second higest Vaishnva sees himself as the second lowest of all. Extending this logic to the third highest, fourth highest, etc., we arrive at the conclusion that the average vaishnava is the only person who sees himself at the correct level where he is. Everyone else will be off, as higher guys see themselvesd as lower and lower guys see themselves as higher.

 

Cheers

[indulekhadasi]

Yes any impure Vaishnava will have some pride. Only the purest of the pure can be freed from this false pride.

[Beggar]

 

 

So the highest Vaishnava sees himself as the lowest.

 

What about the second highest Vaishnava? If he sees himself as the lowest too, then we have two people of different levels competing for the same position which will result in one being incorrect.

 

The other option is the second higest Vaishnva sees himself as the second lowest of all. Extending this logic to the third highest, fourth highest, etc., we arrive at the conclusion that the average vaishnava is the only person who sees himself at the correct level where he is. Everyone else will be off, as higher guys see themselvesd as lower and lower guys see themselves as higher.

 

Cheers

jnane prayasm udapasya nimanta eva, the Bhagavatam says try to give up your empiric approach to divinity and hear from a real sadhu. This was accepted by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His talks with Ramananda Raya. You will never understand the true humility recommended by Mahaprabhu by analyzing it through your scientific instruments and scientific brain.

[Beggar]

 

So much for Prabhupada

cbrahma must think that he's the real follower of Prabhupada, so he must be the highest Vaisnava also.

[Beggar]

26 August, 1972 Los Angeles

My Dear Gaurasundara,

I have stuck to my duty, keeping my Spiritual Master always in front. Because there is some fighting or bickering amongst us, that does not mean that I should go away. If I have understood the order of my Spiritual Master rightly, then I must perform my duty under any circumstances and never one think of going away under disgust.

If there is some incident and I claim that no one is cooperating with me or no one will work with me, that is my defect, not theirs. The Vaisnava devotee must think like this. We should not find fault with others and criticize and go away, that is not the Vaisnava way. Better we should always be willing to offer all respects to others and consider them as our superiors always.

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

[suchandra]

 

Of course the translation is really, "constantly chant the holy names of Sri Hari." That's quite a Freudian slip!

 

 

The attempt to attain the Lotus Feet of Sri Krsna by one's own endeavour is called aroha-pantha. Krsna cannot be obtained by this method. Only upon surrendering unto Sri Krsna can the jiva obtain the service of the Lord by His will and mercy.

 

Endowed with such firm faith, one should engage in the process of sadhana and bhajana. The words pada-dhuli or dust particle indicate the jiva's eternal identity as an infinitesimal part and parcel, vibhinnamsa, of Bhagavan. As long as the jiva is not situated in his svarupa, anarthas are inevitable.

 

In such a condition, ascertainment of the ultimate goal remains ambiguous. Suddha harinama-sankirtana begins upon awakening of sambhanda-jnana and only such suddha nama-sankirtana is prema obtained. When by continous chanting of sudha nama, rati, which is a combination of samvit and hladini potencies of the Lord's svarupa-sakti, toward the Lotus Feet of Bhagava is awakened in the heart of the jiva, he is known as jata-rati-bhakta, a devotee in whom rati or bhava has manifested.

 

There is a difference between the nama-sankirtana of an ajata-rati-sadhaka, one in whom rati is not manifest and a jata-rati-bhavuka-bhakta.

 

To deceitfully present oneself as a jata-rati-bhakta before having reached such a stage is completely improper. After anartha-nivrtti one becomes situated in naivantarya or uninterrupted steadiness in the practice of sadhana, sravana, kirtana and so forth.

 

Next one attains sveccha-purvika which means meditation on the pastimes of the Lord by one's own will. This is an advanced stage of asakti. This then is followed by the condition known as svarasiki when the pastimes of the Lord automatically manifest in one's heart as an uninterrupted flow, this comes in the stage of bhava after suddha-sattva manifests in the heart.

 

At last one comes to the stage of krsna-prema, the stage where one doesn't have to worry, do I see myself as the lowest of all and thus am situated as the highest Vaishnava? Thanks sd.

[tackleberry]

Suppose you have good qualities, is it arrogance to acknowledge that you do? Or, is it humility to deny that you do?

[suchandra]

 

Suppose you have good qualities, is it arrogance to acknowledge that you do? Or, is it humility to deny that you do?

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur would rather comment, different men put different interpretations to this. Additionally, it depends in front of which audience?

 

 

[krsna]

<CENTER>MAY WE ALWAYS REMEMBER</CENTER><CENTER>

By Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupad</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>Shri Krishna Chaitanyadeva is the Supreme Teacher of all teachers of this world and the ideal possessor of intelligence that is the highest of all. It should be our only duty to constantly chant those words regarding the cleansing of the mirror of the heart of which He speaks in His Eight Precepts (Shikshastakam).

 

We are only the bearers of the Transcendental World. We shall never in any way hesitate to offer every honour and facility, for which they are eligible, to all persons of this world. We must pray to all for the boon of aptitude for the service of Krishna.

 

We shall come across many persons in this world, possessing an endless variety of characters, disposed or hostile to the service of Krishna. But we should not slacken in our loving service of the Lord of our hearts and should offer due honour to all persons.

We will have opportunities, as we approach different persons in all parts of the world with the vendor's bag of the discourse of Hari, to see a good many sights, to hear much, and to seek to derive much benefit from our experience.

 

May we never forget that all entities of this world are essentially protégés of the Lotus-feet of Shri Guru for helping the expansion of His service.

 

May we always remember that all excellences must only be prepared to wait with the utmost eagerness on the particle of dust of the Lotus-feet of my Shri Guru; otherwise they are merely the mirage devised by the deluding potency for our ruin.

 

I wish to remind those friends of mine who are proceeding to the West for preaching the words of Shri Chaitanya, the two precepts of my Master Shri Rupa:

 

(1) “The constant endeavour for cultivating relationship with Krishna of a person who, being free from all mundane affinity, enjoys the entities of this world, having due regard to the propriety of each case, in pursuance of his purpose, is called the proper kind of renunciation.”

 

(2) “The abnegation, by persons desirous of liberation, of entities that have an affinity with Hari in considering their mundane nature, is termed renunciation possessing little real value.”

 

 

 

 

[cbrahma]

 

I see you totally missed the point of my post.

If you were making a point about physically present spiritual masters, I certainly did not miss your point. I simply disagree with it.

[theist]

 

If you were making a point about physically present spiritual masters, I certainly did not miss your point. I simply disagree with it.

Yes you missed it totally just because I referrenced the benefit of a siksa guru who has a manfestation on the same plane as yourself. Nor do I want to get into it with you because you still see everything in an Iskcon context. Until you can look at the subject free from that trauma you apparantly went through it's a waste of time.

 

How do I know this? It is obvious becquse what I said is just basic common sense and agreed upon by all sides and factions of these guru debates, namely the ritviks, the so-called orthodox, Iskcon and to the unaffiliated. Only you could find something there to disagree with.

 

Free yourself from Iskcon, both in terms of attraction and aversion.

[cbrahma]

 

Yes you missed it totally just because I referrenced the benefit of a siksa guru who has a manfestation on the same plane as yourself. Nor do I want to get into it with you because you still see everything in an Iskcon context. Until you can look at the subject free from that trauma you apparantly went through it's a waste of time.

 

How do I know this? It is obvious becquse what I said is just basic common sense and agreed upon by all sides and factions of these guru debates, namely the ritviks, the so-called orthodox, Iskcon and to the unaffiliated. Only you could find something there to disagree with.

 

Free yourself from Iskcon, both in terms of attraction and aversion.

That is a blatant ad hominem.

I don't frequent ISKCON temples. I don't give fig about ISKCON. I do care about proper siddhanta as preached by Prabhupada. That isn't ISKCON. Besides, you are bringing up the topic, not I. Ad hominem is a dodge to cover the lack of substantive argument.

I don't need to have a personal problem to disagree that siska gurus have to be physically present. I just have to accept Prabhupada's teaching. Besides the whole bogus guru system that the GBC promotes depends on that requirement. A requirement, I might add, that was rubber-stamped by the Gaudiya Math gurus to legitimize the zonal acarya system. Most disciples have very little physical association with their gurus anyways.

[theist]

 

That is a blatant ad hominem.

I don't frequent ISKCON temples. I don't give fig about ISKCON. I do care about proper siddhanta as preached by Prabhupada. That isn't ISKCON. Besides, you are bringing up the topic, not I. Ad hominem is a dodge to cover the lack of substantive argument.

I don't think that is a proper definition of ad hominem.

 

 

I don't need to have a personal problem to disagree that siska gurus have to be physically present. I just have to accept Prabhupada's teaching. Besides the whole bogus guru system that the GBC promotes depends on that requirement. A requirement, I might add, that was rubber-stamped by the Gaudiya Math gurus to legitimize the zonal acarya system. Most disciples have very little physical association with their gurus anyways.

I never said a siksa guru HAS to be physically present. However if physically present that is not an automatic disqualification either. It could even be very helpful. I myself do not have such a relationship but if I was more serious and doing solid sadhana-bhakti I would do my best to seek out such a relationship. Not as an absolute necessity but as a valuable aid in rapid advancement.

 

Also I am not talking about some formal relationship just being open to someone more advanced in understanding Prabhupada's teachings. Hoe can you find this idea controversial is beyond me.

 

You say Iskcon's system doesn't influence your present feelings on the matter but then you go right into venting about the zonal acarya system which has zero to do with I was talking about and even that system Iskcon has abandoned almost twenty years ago.