Vaishnava Sahajiya?

[RadheyRadhey108]

What was it, what was the point of it, was it popular, and was Chandidas really it's founder?

Thanks, as always

[bija]

CANDIDASA & VIDYAPATI

Candidasa

Candidasa was born in the village of Nannura, which is also in the same Birbhum district of Bengal as Jayadeva Goswami's birthplace. He was born of a brahmana family, and it is said that he also took birth in the beginning of the Fourtennth Century, Sakabda Era. It has been suggested that Candidasa and Vidyapati were great friends because the writings of both express the transcendental feelings of separation profusely, Before his conversion to Vaisnavism however, Candidasa was a materialist who worshipped goddess Candi, or Durga (hence the name Candidasa), one very ferocious form of Kali. In his purport to Shrimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.22 Shrila Prabhupada comments,

"...The goddess of fortune, Laksmidevi, clearly states that she does not bestow her favor on any materialistic person. Although sometimes a materialist becomes very opulent in the eyes of another materialist, such opulence is bestowed upon him by the goddess Durgadevi, a material expansion of the goddess of fortune, not by Laksmidevi herself."

Candidasa coined a mantra which is even today used by worshippers of Durgadevi: dhanang deji roopang dehi roopa-pati-bhaajang dehi. "O worshippable Mother Durgadevi, please give me wealth, strength, fame, a good wife and so on." So Candidasa was engaged in Durga worship, and naturally when one worships Durga, so much material facility. He had a big garden, and a palace. Candidasa's brother was a Vaishnava engaged in salagram worship. Vaishnavas were generally (that is, before Prabhupada's appearance) quite poor. The Vaishnava brother had a salagram, but he had no flower to offer. So he would look in his brother's garden, and he would lust over it. "So many flowers, and my salagram gets no flower." One day while he was looking at the garden, he mentally offered a flower from that garden to his salagram. And somehow or other, Candidas picked the very same flower the next day, and he offered to Candi. Immediately she appeared. "I am pleased with you, Candidas. What benediction do you want?" Candi said, "Wait, every day I am worshipping you. Why today have you suddenly become present? Tell me that." "Because," she said, "You have offered me the flower which has been offered to Salagram, and that it is prasadam. By seeing that prasadam flower I became pleased, so I appeared before you." "But if salagram is superior to you," Candidas said, "Why did you not tell me, stupid Candidas, why are you worshipping me? You should worship Salagram." So Candi said, "Well you never asked me who was Supreme. Did you ever ask me? I would have given you reply. I know who is Supreme, Krishna is Supreme, and Salagram is the worshippable object, not me. But because you were at least worshipping me, so I thought I would train you in worship. And then you find out who is to be worshipped, then you will actually worship properly." So Candidas when he heard this, said, "I'm really sorry that I've wasted my life. Please excuse me, I'm going to worship Salagram. Is that alright?" No no, I'm happy! Go worship Salagram," Candi said. And then in lamentation, Candidas wrote many songs, and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu used to listen to these songs and get ecstasy.

Vidyapati

Vidyapati was a famous composer of songs about the pastimes of Radha-Krishna. He was an inhabitant of Mithila, born in a brahmana family. It is calculated that he composed his songs during the reign of King Sivasimha and Queen Lachimadevi in the beginning of the Fourteenth Century of the Saka Era, almost one hundred years before the appearance of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. The twelfth generation of Vidyapati's descendants is still living. Vidyapati's songs about the pastimes of Lord Krishna express intense feelings of separation from Krishna, and Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu relished all those songs in His ecstasy of separation from Krishna. Prabhupada often quoted Vidyapati's famous verse,

taatala saikate vaari-bindu sama

suta-mita-ramanee samaaje

"The happiness obtained through the association of wife, friends or children is like a drop of water in the desert."

five poets click

[bija]

 

what was the point of it? by radhey

Good question Radhey. There seems to be so many different descriptions of what vaisnava sahajiyaism is. Some in my disciplic succession simply refer to it as imitationism.

 

Some even call us sahajiya if we read the writings of Vidyapati or Jayadeva Goswami.

 

There seems do be a deeper historical basis for Vaisnava Sahajiya. A type of tantra.

 

 

The ultimate goal of a human being is to attain the self through love; and the Vaisnava sahajiya consider the body to be the best means for this. The ideals of the Vaisnava sahajiya are beauty, love and enjoyment.

Here is a beautiful verse by Rabindranatha Tagore

(I love this verse):

 

Not my way of Salvation, to surrender the world!

Rather for me the taste of Infinite Freedom

While yet I am bound by a thousand bonds to the wheel:

In each glory of sight and sound and smell

I shall find thy infinite Joy abiding:

My passion shall burn as the flame of Salvation,

The flower of my love shall become the ripe fruit of Devotion.

Such a beautiful poem! Where every breathe of sunlight is the touch of God.

 

This poem is from the introduction to Vidyapati's Padavali, translation by the scholar Ananda K Coomaraswamy.

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/IDJ920/

I am a book nut - I love covers, binding, printing etc etc. This one is delicious, published by Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts.

[bija]

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> The ultimate goal of a human being is to attain the self through love; and the Vaisnava sahajiya consider the body to be the best means for this. The ideals of the Vaisnava sahajiya are beauty, love and enjoyment.</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

Here is one of my Synesthesia Poems - diving deeply into the cross-over of the senses. Almost hedonistic if not for devotion. Maybe 'being renounced or being a sahjiya is a fine dividing line':

 

Whispers

(Easter Saturday 22nd March 2008)

He called out to me....

but I could not see.

Then a cool breeze touched my cheeks.

He looked at me...

but I could not feel.

Then the midday sun warmed my skin.

He touched me...

but I could not hold such tenderness.

Then the songbirds song filled the air!

Oh the birds taught me!

Then my heart burst open...

and madness set upon me.

The moon, the flower, the star...shone brightly.

And I saw Him!

We were One!

What was that fear, that kept me from hearing?

That kept me from feeling His patient gaze?

From feeling the tenderness of touch?

Such is the way of Love. He called in whispers!

Almost silent...except for song!

The bird song opened me!

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

CANDIDASA & VIDYAPATI<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

Candidasa

Candidasa was born in the village of Nannura, which is also in the same Birbhum district of Bengal as Jayadeva Goswami's birthplace. He was born of a brahmana family, and it is said that he also took birth in the beginning of the Fourtennth Century, Sakabda Era. It has been suggested that Candidasa and Vidyapati were great friends because the writings of both express the transcendental feelings of separation profusely, Before his conversion to Vaisnavism however, Candidasa was a materialist who worshipped goddess Candi, or Durga (hence the name Candidasa), one very ferocious form of Kali. In his purport to Shrimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.22 Shrila Prabhupada comments,

"...The goddess of fortune, Laksmidevi, clearly states that she does not bestow her favor on any materialistic person. Although sometimes a materialist becomes very opulent in the eyes of another materialist, such opulence is bestowed upon him by the goddess Durgadevi, a material expansion of the goddess of fortune, not by Laksmidevi herself."

Candidasa coined a mantra which is even today used by worshippers of Durgadevi: dhanang deji roopang dehi roopa-pati-bhaajang dehi. "O worshippable Mother Durgadevi, please give me wealth, strength, fame, a good wife and so on." So Candidasa was engaged in Durga worship, and naturally when one worships Durga, so much material facility. He had a big garden, and a palace. Candidasa's brother was a Vaishnava engaged in salagram worship. Vaishnavas were generally (that is, before Prabhupada's appearance) quite poor. The Vaishnava brother had a salagram, but he had no flower to offer. So he would look in his brother's garden, and he would lust over it. "So many flowers, and my salagram gets no flower." One day while he was looking at the garden, he mentally offered a flower from that garden to his salagram. And somehow or other, Candidas picked the very same flower the next day, and he offered to Candi. Immediately she appeared. "I am pleased with you, Candidas. What benediction do you want?" Candi said, "Wait, every day I am worshipping you. Why today have you suddenly become present? Tell me that.Because," she said, "You have offered me the flower which has been offered to Salagram, and that it is prasadam. By seeing that prasadam flower I became pleased, so I appeared before you.But if salagram is superior to you," Candidas said, "Why did you not tell me, stupid Candidas, why are you worshipping me? You should worship Salagram." So Candi said, "Well you never asked me who was Supreme. Did you ever ask me? I would have given you reply. I know who is Supreme, Krishna is Supreme, and Salagram is the worshippable object, not me. But because you were at least worshipping me, so I thought I would train you in worship. And then you find out who is to be worshipped, then you will actually worship properly." So Candidas when he heard this, said, "I'm really sorry that I've wasted my life. Please excuse me, I'm going to worship Salagram. Is that alright?" No no, I'm happy! Go worship Salagram," Candi said. And then in lamentation, Candidas wrote many songs, and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu used to listen to these songs and get ecstasy.

Vidyapati

Vidyapati was a famous composer of songs about the pastimes of Radha-Krishna. He was an inhabitant of Mithila, born in a brahmana family. It is calculated that he composed his songs during the reign of King Sivasimha and Queen Lachimadevi in the beginning of the Fourteenth Century of the Saka Era, almost one hundred years before the appearance of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. The twelfth generation of Vidyapati's descendants is still living. Vidyapati's songs about the pastimes of Lord Krishna express intense feelings of separation from Krishna, and Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu relished all those songs in His ecstasy of separation from Krishna. Prabhupada often quoted Vidyapati's famous verse,

taatala saikate vaari-bindu sama

suta-mita-ramanee samaaje

"The happiness obtained through the association of wife, friends or children is like a drop of water in the desert."

five poets click

What a lovely pastime I think I was led to Sri Sri Radha-Krishna by Kali Ma, as well.

But, was he also a member of the Vaishnava Sahajiya?

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Good question Radhey. There seems to be so many different descriptions of what vaisnava sahajiyaism is. Some in my disciplic succession simply refer to it as imitationism.

 

Some even call us sahajiya if we read the writings of Vidyapati or Jayadeva Goswami.

 

There seems do be a deeper historical basis for Vaisnava Sahajiya. A type of tantra.

 

 

Here is a beautiful verse by Rabindranatha Tagore

(I love this verse):

 

Not my way of Salvation, to surrender the world!

Rather for me the taste of Infinite Freedom

While yet I am bound by a thousand bonds to the wheel:

In each glory of sight and sound and smell

I shall find thy infinite Joy abiding:

My passion shall burn as the flame of Salvation,

The flower of my love shall become the ripe fruit of Devotion.

Such a beautiful poem! Where every breathe of sunlight is the touch of God.

 

This poem is from the introduction to Vidyapati's Padavali, translation by the scholar Ananda K Coomaraswamy.

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/IDJ920/

I am a book nut - I love covers, binding, printing etc etc. This one is delicious, published by Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts.

I think they were a Tantric group who tried to imitate the Rasa Lila of Krishna (at least, that's what I've heard), but I'm not exactly sure. At the very least, I know they were (are?) extremely devoted to Srimati Radharani and Lord Krishna though... so I can definitely respect that about them

So, do they (if Vaishnava Sahajiya still exists) try to find God in the same way that the Rabindranatha Tagore poem describes? By taking all material experience and trying to find the spiritual in it?

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>The ultimate goal of a human being is to attain the self through love; and the Vaisnava sahajiya consider the body to be the best means for this. The ideals of the Vaisnava sahajiya are beauty, love and enjoyment.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

Here is one of my Synesthesia Poems - diving deeply into the cross-over of the senses. Almost hedonistic if not for devotion. Maybe 'being renounced or being a sahjiya is a fine dividing line':

 

Whispers<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

(Easter Saturday 22nd March 2008)

He called out to me....

but I could not see.

Then a cool breeze touched my cheeks.

He looked at me...

but I could not feel.

Then the midday sun warmed my skin.

He touched me...

but I could not hold such tenderness.

Then the songbirds song filled the air!

Oh the birds taught me!

Then my heart burst open...

and madness set upon me.

The moon, the flower, the star...shone brightly.

And I saw Him!

We were One!

What was that fear, that kept me from hearing?

That kept me from feeling His patient gaze?

From feeling the tenderness of touch?

Such is the way of Love. He called in whispers!

Almost silent...except for song!

The bird song opened me!

How beautiful Did you write it?

[bija]

There seems to be various scholarly views if he was or not a Vaisnava Sahajiya. Sri Caitanya would listen to his poems, so in my opinion Candidas is not Sahajiya. Its crazy actually some scholars even point to the original flow of Sri Caitanya as sahajiya, and they say later Gaudiya Vaisnavism is moving away from that flow.

 

There seems to be so many opinions out there. The word 'imitationist' may be too simple a definition in some ways, if we look at the varying views.

 

What may define a sahajiya, is a purely transcendental experience of love, being mixed or mistaken with passionate mundane love. Ofcourse tantra is not simply mundane in the view of the practicioner.

 

Sri Caitanya would have first heard Jayadeva Goswami's Gita Govinda in the Sri Jagannatha Temple as it is sung there daily with dance. He was very renounced. In private his close associates would read to him from Candidasa, Vidyapati, and Jayadeva.

 

Now, Jayadeva seems to be not as renounced in this way, there seems to be a crossover and references to his own wife in the Gita Govinda. Even so Sri Caitanya did not reject these writings. I am not well researched on all this though - just some thoughts that may shed light on your question.

[bija]

 

How beautiful Did you write it? by radhey

 

Yes I wrote that this easter for a dear friend. It was a spontaneous writing piece, that come straight from the heart in one flow. I started writing about my friend, but what came out was me. lol;)

[Beggar]

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His followers are aprakrta sahajiya. They follow the flow of transcendental energy whereas the prakrta sahajiyas mistake the mundane or prakata or prakrta for the transcendental (divya sakti).

[bija]

 

So, do they (if Vaishnava Sahajiya still exists) try to find God in the same way that the Rabindranatha Tagore poem describes? By taking all material experience and trying to find the spiritual in it? by radhey

As far as I have realized vaisnava tantra is like that. But even without tantra practice, 'application' rather than renunciation is a 'key' for all followers of Sri Rupa too. The difference seems to be in the imitation of Sri Sri Radha Krsna as you say.

 

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His followers are aprakrta sahajiya. They follow the flow of transcendental energy whereas the prakrta sahajiyas mistake the mundane or prakata or prakrta for the transcendental (divya sakti).

by beggar

This is very clear defintion Radhey, by beggar.

 

Sri Rupa's line is so pure that it is manjari bhava, purely transcendental. Vastly different than Vaisnava Sahajiya practice desribed by beggar in the above quote. One will not find manjari bhava so 'clearly' in the writings of Candidas, Vidyapati and Jayadeva. Sri Caitanya gave that conception out of his purity and kindness. Sri Rupa is Rupa Manjari in Goloka Vrindavan eternal lila.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

There seems to be various scholarly views if he was or not a Vaisnava Sahajiya. Sri Caitanya would listen to his poems, so in my opinion Candidas is not Sahajiya. Its crazy actually some scholars even point to the original flow of Sri Caitanya as sahajiya, and they say later Gaudiya Vaisnavism is moving away from that flow.

There are scholars they try to paint Lord Chaitanya as Sahajiya? Hmmm... I wonder how much they really even know about the Vaishnava Sahajiya.

 

 

There seems to be so many opinions out there. The word 'imitationist' may be too simple a definition in some ways, if we look at the varying views.

 

I don't think anyone's ever done a real, in-depth inquiry into the topic. That'd be interesting. I mean, obviously it was a Tantric sect, so they used the 'Five M's' to get in contact with God, but I wonder if they did it more symbolically or literally. I've heard they were looked down on by other Vaishnava Sampradayas, and so had to worship and practice their rituals in secret.

 

 

What may define a sahajiya, is a purely transcendental experience of love or a mixing of that with passionate love. Sri Caitanya would have first heard Jayadeva Goswami's Gita Govinda in the Sri Jagannatha Temple as it is sung there daily with dance. He was very renounced. In private his close associated would read him from Candidasa, Vidyapati, and Jayadeva. Now, Jayadeva seems to be not as renounced in this way.

 

Well, if Jayadeva Goswami and Chandidas were both Vaishnava Sahajiyas, then there can't be too much bad about the group like some people say, since so much beauty came out of them

 

 

Even so Sri Caitanya did not reject these writings. I am not well researched on all this though - just some thoughts that may shed light on your question.

How could He reject such beautiful works of devotion?

That's fine. In asking questions, everyone (so far just you and me) learns

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Yes I wrote that this easter for a dear friend. It was a spontaneous writing piece, that come straight from the heart in one flow. I started writing about my friend, but what came out was me. lol;)

It's absolutely beautiful, Bija Prabhu. You should go into writing!

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His followers are aprakrta sahajiya. They follow the flow of transcendental energy whereas the prakrta sahajiyas mistake the mundane or prakata or prakrta for the transcendental (divya sakti).

So they were really just bhaktas who were more interested in Purusha (spirit) than Prakriti (material nature)?

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

As far as I have realized vaisnava tantra is like that. But even without tantra parctice 'application' rather than renunciation is a 'key' for all followers of Sri Rupa too. The difference seems to be in the imitation of Sri Sri Radha Krsna as you say.

 

Sri Rupa's line is so pure that it is manjari bhava even on the transcendental. You do not find manjari bhava so clearly in the writings of Candidas, Vidyapati and Jayadeva. Sri Caitanya gave that conception out of his purity and kindness.

Rather interesting. So, do you think their following of the 'Five M's' was symbolic rather than literal? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm rather interested in them!

[bija]

 

I don't think anyone's ever done a real, in-depth inquiry into the topic. That'd be interesting. I mean, obviously it was a Tantric sect, so they used the 'Five M's' to get in contact with God, but I wonder if they did it more symbolically or literally. I've heard they were looked down on by other Vaishnava Sampradayas, and so had to worship and practice their rituals in secret. by Radhey

It seems Sahajiya became a degradred practice eventually. That is the danger of tantra I would presume. Sri Caitanya's movement became so degradred in practice that many Indians lost faith in Sri Caitanya. In the late 19th century reformers such as Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura began to clean that image up.

 

I dont know what five m's means.

[bija]

You should go into writing by radhey

I wish Radhey. Art, poetry and music is rare for me. It only flows at the height of madness a few times a year.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

It seems Sahajiya became a degradred practice eventually. That is the danger of tantra I would presume. Sri Caitanya's movement became so degradred in practice that many Indians lost faith in Sri Caitanya. In the late 19th century reformers such as Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura began to clean that image up.

 

So, basically, what started out as a Tantric Bhakti practice later became a sense-enjoyment group. That's sad. Might I ask how Gaudiya Vaishnavism was ever degraded? IDK much about Gaudiya history from Lord Chaitanya's disappearance to now.

 

 

I dont know what five m's means.

The Sankrit term is Panchamakara, but it is usually just called 'The Five Ms' in the west (b/c each thing starts w/ an 'M'). There's:

Madya (wine)

Mamsa (meat)

Matsya (fish)

Mudra (a type of alcohol made from parched grain)

Maithuna (sexual intercourse)

However, when reading things like this, one must remember that there are two Tantric paths in Hinduism: Vamachara and Dakshinachara. Vamachara Tantrics practice each of the Panchamakara (or Five Ms) literally, while Dakshinachara Tantrics follow them symbolically, or don't practice them at all, but just look for what the divine metaphor could be in each (e.g.- wine representing intoxication in God consciousness, intercourse representing the divine union of Shiva-Shakti or Vishnu-Lakshmi, etc...).

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

You should go into writing by radhey

 

I wish Radhey. Art, poetry and music is rare for me. It only flows at the height of madness a few times a year.

Hahaha Same here.

[bija]

 

However, when reading things like this, one must remember that there are two Tantric paths in Hinduism: Vamachara and Dakshinachara. Vamachara Tantrics practice each of the Panchamakara (or Five Ms) literally, while Dakshinachara Tantrics follow them symbolically, or don't practice them at all, but just look for what the divine metaphor could be in each (e.g.- wine representing intoxication in God consciousness, intercourse representing the divine union of Shiva-Shakti or Vishnu-Lakshmi, etc...). by radhey

Degradation may have various defintions from various viewpoints possibly. You have answered your question in the above quote:) indirectly. I see degradation as this: practice and teaching that clouds the essence.

 

Maybe look at it this way. Purity? The finest of finest of finest, essence (experience of love)....where that is we gotta go...

 

I think that is what Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and his followers are 'seeking' eternally and teaching. The finest conception.

 

Fine is a word for me like a very subtle thing, airy and essence like...full of lightness and color. Not a superior dogma, but a teaching that can awaken the esoteric easily for the follower - without getting lost in maya.

 

A fine theistic conception.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Degradation may have various defintions from various viewpoints possibly. You have answered your question in the above quote:). I see degradation as this: practice and teaching that clouds the essence.

 

I get what you're saying. The practices that may have went on in Vaishnava Sahajiya might not have been what it was meant to be all about.

So, there may have been two different groups in Vaishnava Sahajiya. It all sounds so lovely, I'd like to think that there was once a Dakshinachara Vaishnava Sahajiya.

 

 

Maybe look at it this way. Purity? The finest of finest of finest, essence (experience of love)....where that is we gotta go...

 

I think that is what Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and his followers are 'seeking' eternally and teaching. The finest conception.

 

Fine is a word for me like a very subtle thing, airy and essence like...full of lightness and color.

Interesting... maybe your area is more like philosophy!

[bija]

It all sounds so lovely, I'd like to think that there was once a Dakshinachara Vaishnava Sahajiya. by radhey

It is lovely isnt it:). It is interesting and beautiful.

 

Maybe sometime you can teach me what dakshinachara means:ponder:. All these big words lol. Magic))

 

I gotta run...the day is getting away from me. Thx for the questions...it was fun. Adios:outta:

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

It all sounds so lovely, I'd like to think that there was once a Dakshinachara Vaishnava Sahajiya. by radhey

 

It is lovely isnt it:). It is interesting and beautiful.

 

Maybe sometime you can teach me what dakshinachara means:ponder:. All these big words lol. Magic))

 

I gotta run...the day is getting away from me. Thx for the questions...it was fun. Adios:outta:

Indeed

Dakshinachara means "Right (Dakshina) (path to) attainment (chara)", while Vamachara means "Left (vama) (path to) attainment (chara)". The Dakshinacharyas ("Right Attainers") are the ones that practice the Panchamakara ('Five Ms') symbolically, while the Vamacharyas ("Left Attainers") are the ones that practice it literally (the paths would be equally beautiful to me if there weren't Mamsa (meat) and Matsya (fish) in the Panchamakara (Five M's)... but I don't think that our paths to Krishna should ever involve the suffering of sentient beings... so I prefer Dakshinachara ('Right attainment')).

Thanks for answering my many questions Vaya con Krishna

[Kulapavana]

What I find curious and somewhat twisted is that in our movement devotees badmouth and condemn the VAIHNAVA sahajiyas while they heap praises on the Abrahamic religions, especially Christianity. IMO that is just a propaganda issue because Gaudiya Vaishnavism is 95% similar to Vaishnava sahajiya schools, while it may only share 25% similarity with Christianity.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

What I find curious and somewhat twisted is that in our movement devotees badmouth and condemn the VAIHNAVA sahajiyas while they heap praises on the Abrahamic religions, especially Christianity. IMO that is just a propaganda issue because Gaudiya Vaishnavism is 95% similar to Vaishnava sahajiya schools, while it may only share 25% similarity with Christianity.

Hey Kulapavana Ji I think that as Vaishnavas, we should honor all paths to Krishna, especially those followed by our fellow Vaishnavas.