New Atheism: Atheists Are Back

[suchandra]

While the Vaishnavas are discussing how to save ISKCON Texas,

 

 

Texas Temple Report

 

Dear prabhus,

 

Just a little about the Texas temples. HH Giriraja Swami cancelled his visit to Dallas last week and went to Houston. The temple room in 2000 was too small and a new temple building with restaurant was started.

 

Maybe a $10,000,000.00 project. Anyway the progress stopped about 4 years ago construction is halted due to numerous problems with the temple

and the construction company. Community members remember the tape

where Prabhupada is complaining on the radio and the leaders are not able

to answer questions.

 

HH Kesava Bharati Maharaja

 

This week Kesava Bharati Maharaja is here in Dallas.

The embarrassment from the temple project being stalled for this length

of time is severe as the structure is halfway finished and the new

inflated costs must be much more.

 

 

David Aikman says, see below, "in the past 12 months, atheist authors, according to The Wall Street Journal, have created a publishing sensation, selling more than 1 million books worldwide. These include: 500,000 hardcover copies of Richard Dawkins's The God Delusion (2006); 296,000 in sales for Christopher Hitchens's God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything (2007); 185,000 copies of Sam Harris's Letter to a Christian Nation (2006); 64,100 copies of Daniel C. Dennett's Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon (2006); and 60,000 copies of Victor J. Stenger's God: The Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist (2007).

 

 

Global Prognosis

Puncturing Atheism

Fourfold God Squad brilliantly takes on Dawkins, Hitchens, & Co.

David Aikman |

 

Related articles and links | 1 of 2

You would have to have been hitchhiking across Siberia to have missed a striking new phenomenon: The atheists are back. Not just back, mind you, but globally parading in triumph across tv, bookstores, and the Internet. But don't be tongue-tied; an unlikely God Squad (including the flamboyant Al Sharpton) is taking them on.

In the past 12 months, atheist authors, according to The Wall Street Journal, have created a publishing sensation, selling more than 1 million books worldwide. These include: 500,000 hardcover copies of Richard Dawkins's The God Delusion (2006); 296,000 in sales for Christopher Hitchens's God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything (2007); 185,000 copies of Sam Harris's Letter to a Christian Nation (2006); 64,100 copies of Daniel C. Dennett's Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon (2006); and 60,000 copies of Victor J. Stenger's God: The Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist (2007).

 

The leader of the atheist pack is Oxford evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins, holder of the Charles Simonyi professorship for the public understanding of science at Oxford University. Simonyi is one of the Microsoft billionaires. An atheist, he insisted that Dawkins be the first holder of his professorship because, as he said, Dawkins would be "Darwin's rottweiler."

Dawkins sets the tone for the new atheist surge, describing the God of the Old Testament as "arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it … petty … unjust, [an] unforgiving control-freak … misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal. … "

Meanwhile, ex-Englishman Hitchens (who once provoked left-wing British mp George Galloway into calling him "a drink-sodden, former Trotskyist popinjay") supports Bush on Iraq, opposes abortion, but considers being a Christian comparable to citizenship in North Korea. In God Is Not Great, the provocative and quotable Hitchens says, "Monotheistic religion is a plagiarism of a plagiarism of a hearsay of a hearsay, of an illusion of an illusion, extending all the way back to a fabrication of a few nonevents."

Riposting with God-Haters

Why a surge by atheists right now? One explanation could be "faith fatigue" among skeptics and the hard-core Left, who ordinarily make up 15 percent of the American people (and a much higher percentage of the European intelligentsia). After six years of a famously evangelical White House, the secularists have recovered from their repudiation at the polls and have come out swinging.

Another explanation is subtler. American evangelicals, we must admit, have not been immune to triumphal attitudes, arrogance, foolish public statements, and, sometimes, downright hypocrisy in personal behavior. A backlash against evangelicals has been brewing for years.

The good news? First, a bracing frontal assault on faith is actually good for evangelicalism. It compels us to reexamine what we believe and to behave—well, with greater humility.

Second, this backlash has produced a fascinating response among believers. For example, the most effective public debater with Christopher Hitchens to date has been Brooklyn Baptist and verbal flame-thrower the Rev. Al Sharpton.

In a debate, Hitchens disparaged the God-fearing sensibilities of Martin Luther King Jr., angering Sharpton. "In terms of the civil-rights movement," Sharpton responded, "it was absolutely fueled by a belief in God and a belief in right or wrong. Had not there been this belief that there was a right and a wrong, the civil-rights movement that you alluded to and referred to would not have existed."

 

 

 

to be continued: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/october/46.110.html?start=2

[tackleberry]

It's a good thing, in a sense. Atheists are far better than religious fundamentalists, who are often irrational. Sometimes, their fanaticism is so frightening that we need atheists to keep them in check once in a while.

[suchandra]

 

It's a good thing, in a sense. Atheists are far better than religious fundamentalists, who are often irrational. Sometimes, their fanaticism is so frightening that we need atheists to keep them in check once in a while.

Everything can be explained with Bhagavad-gita. Vaishnavas feel so confused and helpless that they need to engage atheists to fight the fundamentalists? Could be that this is right with most of the members of this forum, lazyfighters, but how is Krishna addressing this point in Bhagavad-gita, are atheists actually doing this, are they good for this, to keep another group of asuras in check? So far I find in Bhagavad-gita only one point being made, to sign a contract with atheists is nothing but to pave our path for going to hell. "Depend upon Me and not upon some PhD atheist and work always under My protection", 18.57. We shouldnt therefore become perplexed by various anxieties caused by terrorists and thus become bound by a network of illusions. What easily happens then especially in kali-yuga, we become attached to sense enjoyment. What happens next - we meet our friends in hell, BG 16.16:

 

Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of illusions, they become too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and fall down into hell.

PURPORT

The demoniac man knows no limit to his desire to acquire money. That is unlimited. He thinks only of how much assessment he has just now and schemes to engage that stock of wealth further and further. For that reason, he does not hesitate to act in any sinful way and so deals in the black market for illegal gratification. He is enamored by the possessions he has already, such as land, family, house and bank balance, and he is always planning to improve them. He believes in his own strength, and he does not know that whatever he is gaining is due to his past good deeds. He is given an opportunity to accumulate such things, but he has no conception of past causes. He simply thinks that all his mass of wealth is due to his own endeavor. A demoniac person believes in the strength of his personal work, not in the law of karma. According to the law of karma, a man takes his birth in a high family, or becomes rich, or very well educated, or very beautiful because of good work in the past. The demoniac think that all these things are accidental and due to the strength of one's personal ability. They do not sense any arrangement behind all the varieties of people, beauty and education. Anyone who comes into competition with such a demoniac man is his enemy. There are many demoniac people, and each is enemy to the others. This enmity becomes more and more deep — between persons, then between families, then between societies, and at last between nations. Therefore there is constant strife, war and enmity all over the world.

Each demoniac person thinks that he can live at the sacrifice of all others. Generally, a demoniac person thinks of himself as the Supreme God, and a demoniac preacher tells his followers: "Why are you seeking God elsewhere? You are all yourselves God! Whatever you like, you can do. Don't believe in God. Throw away God. God is dead." These are the demoniac's preachings.

Although the demoniac person sees others equally rich and influential, or even more so, he thinks that no one is richer than he and that no one is more influential than he. As far as promotion to the higher planetary system is concerned, he does not believe in performing yajñas, or sacrifices. Demons think that they will manufacture their own process of yajña and prepare some machine by which they will be able to reach any higher planet. The best example of such a demoniac man was Rāvaṇa. He offered a program to the people by which he would prepare a staircase so that anyone could reach the heavenly planets without performing sacrifices, such as are prescribed in the Vedas. Similarly, in the present age such demoniac men are striving to reach the higher planetary systems by mechanical arrangements. These are examples of bewilderment. The result is that, without their knowledge, they are gliding toward hell. Here the Sanskrit word moha-jāla is very significant. Jāla means "net"; like fish caught in a net, they have no way to come out.

[theist]

Over endeavoring. It's been hard enough to manage what Prabhupada left in terms of temple infrastructure and now they want to build something bigger and grander?

[suchandra]

 

Over endeavoring. It's been hard enough to manage what Prabhupada left in terms of temple infrastructure and now they want to build something bigger and grander?

Could be that we have to tell the members of audarya not to buy books from list above of atheist authors, who "have thus created a publishing sensation, selling more than 1 million books worldwide", but rather should order Vaishnava literature from the BBT and thus the temple construction can be completed?

[Bishadi]

 

It's a good thing, in a sense. Atheists are far better than religious fundamentalists, who are often irrational. Sometimes, their fanaticism is so frightening that we need atheists to keep them in check once in a while.

 

It seems to question opinions is the 'good' thing. As until knowledge is understood that combines all mankind, then the evolution of knowledge continues.

 

Otherwise why are the new guru's be redefining the Bhagavad Gita?

 

Why is Hindu, Buddhism and the host of religions continue to evolve? Even using the same basic book. Sounds almost like christianity, judaism, and islam......... :>:>:>

 

Where the difficulty is, is in the integrity of the believers blinded by the teachers who NEED the following to exist.

 

The point is humility is born to the realization of 'unknowing'. That is what suffering is all about. As well to seek in meditation allows existence to be felt within as words had not evolved to comprehend what is true.

 

So thank the rebels who stand to integrity over and above following just to be accepted.

 

Shall I share within the teachings that when the truth exists to bring equality to all mankind with 'understanding'; the religions will no longer be needed?

 

Look for the sign; 'as the young begin to teach the old.'

[cbrahma]

Actually the Gaudiya Vaisnavas have been called 'fundamentalists' by Indologists. What is fundamentalism anyways? It's a literal-mindedness, taking scripture literally, without a view to interpretation. Gosh doesn' t that sound familiar, taking Bhagavad Gita As it Is.

[Bishadi]

 

Actually the Gaudiya Vaisnavas have been called 'fundamentalists' by Indologists. What is fundamentalism anyways?

Following a belief over pursuing the truth at all times

 

 

It's a literal-mindedness, taking scripture literally, without a view to interpretation.

Was the idea mindlessness? In which a belief presented by men/women over rides the truth of reality

 

 

Gosh doesn' t that sound familiar, taking Bhagavad Gita As it Is.

AS even in the old works, the knowledge of LIGHT combines all understanding

 

"TRANSLATION 10.11 Gita

To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance "

 

Ignorance is following a path that does not combine what is natural with the experience of life.

[cbrahma]

 

Following a belief over pursuing the truth at all times

 

Was the idea mindlessness? In which a belief presented by men/women over rides the truth of reality

 

AS even in the old works, the knowledge of LIGHT combines all understanding

 

"TRANSLATION 10.11 Gita

To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance "

 

Ignorance is following a path that does not combine what is natural with the experience of life.

Mindlessness? Sounds Buddhist. Pure negation,or mere negation leaves us literally with zero - impersonal samadhi.

[Bishadi]

 

Mindlessness?

It was a question. Meaning to follow a belief without comprehending the truth is 'mindlessness'

 

So I was asking a question. Why? it is to retain a social idea (religion)?

 

 

Sounds Buddhist. Pure negation,or mere negation leaves us literally with zero - impersonal samadhi.

 

That is what beliefs in faith without knowledge; zero comprehension.

 

Always remember, when the truth is recognized within, never again will faith or belief be the governing basis to understanding; the religions will be over.

 

No need for rituals!

[krsna]

 

 

"Atheistic Arrogance"

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.26.06

Bombay, December 18, 1974

 

 

 

 

listen

 

 

 

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"Due to his forgetfulness, the transcendental living entity accepts the influence of material energy as his field of activities, and thus actuated, he wrongly applies the activities to himself."

 

 

 

evam parabhidhyanena

kartrtvam prakrteh puman

karmasu kriyamanesu

gunair atmani manyate

 

[sB 3.26.6]

 

Being influenced by the modes of material nature, he is, the living entity, is identifying himself with the particular type of material nature, particular modes of material nature. We are getting different types of bodies according to the modes of material nature. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [bg. 3.27], in the Bhagavad-gita it is also said. Whatever we are doing, we are doing under the spell of material nature. Just like a madman. A madman is insulting his father. Why? Naturally a man is not supposed to insult his father, but being maddened, sometimes we have seen that insults his father. I... One friend... I went to the Poona lunatic asylum with the father of the patient. The complaint was that the son who is mad was kept in Poona at the lunatic asylum. He would attack his father immediately he sees. His only anger was with his father. So similarly, nature is the father, son is respectful to the father. But sometimes, in madness, he is not only disrespectful, but he want to insult actually.

 

As this is quite happening in our daily experience, similarly, we are sons of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is a fact. Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, sarva-yonisu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayo yah: [bg. 14.4] "All different types of bodies, they are born of the mother, material nature, and I am the seed-giving father." This is the fact. We living entities... Just like father gives the seed within the womb of the mother, and then the son develops a body from the ingredients supplied by mother's body, and when the body is completely developed, the child comes out with a particular type of body given by the mother, in the same way, we living entities, we are part and parcel of God.

 

So sa aiksata. The Vedic information is... Sa asrjata. We gives seeds with a particular part of the body, but Maha-Visnu, simply by glancing over the material nature, mahat-tattva, He impregnates the material nature with so many living entities. Sa asrjata, sa aiksata. These are the information. The Supreme Personality can give birth through His eyesight. He doesn't require to use it, genital. Because we get information from Brahma-samhita, angani yasya sakalendriya-vrttimanti pasyanti panti kalayanti ciram jaganti, ananda-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala [bs. 5.32]. These are description in the Brahma-samhita. We can see only with our eyes, but the Brahman, Parabrahman, Visnu, He can beget children also with eyesight. We can eat with our mouth, tongue, but Krsna can eat by seeing. Sometimes the argument is put forward by the atheist class of men that "You are offering foodstuff to the Deity, but when He has eaten? The foodstuff is still lying there." (aside:) The children may be taken away. So he does not know, the atheist class man, that Krsna can eat simply by seeing. He has eaten everything, and again He has left everything. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate [iso Invocation]. This is Krsna's eating. He can eat the whole foodstuff, and it still remains as prasadam for distribution to the devotee as it is. So the atheists cannot see it. They think that it is lying there. It is lying there, but no, that is not the fact. Krsna has eaten. And Krsna, simply seeing by the eyes, He has eaten. It is a great science. One has to learn.

 

So we are all sons of God. This is a fact, either I am human being or demigod or cats or dog or tree or plants or insect, anything, all living entities. Krsna says, sarva-yonisu. Sarva-yonisu mean "All different forms or species of life, as many living entities there are, they are all My sons." Aham bija-pradah pita: [bg. 14.4] "I am the seed-giving father," or "They are all My sons." This is our relationship. Actually, this is our relationship with Krsna. And as the father and son relationship means the son may live at the cost of the father... Father has got immense property. They can enjoy. But they must remain very obedient to the father -- very natural -- then he is happy. If the father is very rich man, he has got all the resources, and if the son is obedient, then where is trouble? Is there any trouble? Father wants simply... Father is ready to give all the property to the sons. That is natural inclination. And the son's duty is just to become obedient to the father.

 

But that we have rebelled: "No, why shall I be obedient?" Therefore it is said, evam parabhidhyanena kartrtvam prakrteh puman. All the living entities in this material world, they are thinking that "I am proprietor. I am supreme. I can do anything, whatever I like. There is no question of accepting any authority of God. These are primitive thoughts. We are self-sufficient." That means he is speaking all nonsense under the influence of prakrti. He is a rascal number one. Just like a madman speaks so many things full of rascaldom -- nobody cares for -- similarly, when a devotee sees that a nondevotee atheist is claiming so many things for himself without giving credit... Even big, big swamis, they are teaching that "Why you are giving credit to God?" The communists also. There are big swamis, they also say like that, that "You are working hard. You have got some good result. Why you are giving credit to God?" These things are being taught. And the atheist also says, "I have worked hard. I have achieved this nice result. It is due to my labor." And..., but when he is in loss, then the credit goes to God. Bhagavan ki chaya chalagiya(?) (laughter) When he gets something, that is his credit. And he loses something -- that goes to the responsibility of God: "Why God has created so much trouble? Why God has...," so many things.

 

So this is foolishness. Tvaya abhihita. This is called spell of maya. So under the spell of maya, para, para abhidhyanena kartrtvam, he becomes independent and talks all nonsense.

 

 

prakrteh kriyamanani

gunaih karmani sarvasah

ahankara-vimudhatma

kartaham iti manyate

[bg. 3.27]

 

 

Actually, he is being pulled by the material nature. Just like dog, chained, he has to do according to the master desire, similarly, we are also chained by the prakrti, material nature, and we are being forced to act according to the dictation of the material nature. But ahankara-vimudhatma. Because he is bewildered, he is thinking... You will find in the beach so many dogs. They are very proudly jumping and thinking that "I have got full independence," but actually he is dependent.

 

So every one of us, we are dependent on prakrti. Caitanya Mahaprabhu described the constitutional position of the living entity. When Sanatana Gosvami inquired that "What is the constitutional position of us?" He ex... It is a fact. This is intelligence. It is a fact that we are under the control of the material nature, daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya [bg. 7.14], and we are acting under the control of material nature. However great scientist I may be, however great politician, prime minister I may be, but when nature will say, "Please get out," we have to do it. You cannot, by your so-called scientific method, you can say, "No, no, I shall remain. Who can drive me away?" That is not possible. So this is a fact, that they are defying the authority of God. They say that "What is the use of accepting God?" because foolish. They...

 

Just like the communist class men, they say, "The religion is the cause of all falldown of the human society, religion." Therefore they are very much against religion. When I was in Moscow, in the airport, my custom checking was being done. So they found out one Bhagavad-gita. So immediately the custom officer called police. So I thought, "Now my destiny is finished, because... (laughter) Because I know that these people send anyone to some unknown place. You cannot question." In our country that is also coming very soon. Anyone government can send anywhere. So the policeman, two policemen came. So they saw the Bhagavad-gita. Of course, by Krsna's grace, they said, "Oh, no, there is nothing dangerous. They can go." This is the country, Moscow. I have got practical experience in going there. And always suspicious. And the people in general, they are very unhappy, very unhappy, because they have no freedom. A young man cannot go out of the country. So they may advertise so much, but so far I have got experience -- the most wretched country. Everyone is fearful. And they are not very prosperous, not rich or... Comparing to the other cities of Europe or America, Moscow is a very poor city.

 

 

[krsna]

Anyway, this defying the authority of God, this is the our main material disease. That is explained, evam parabhidhyanena kartrtvam. It is foolishness. Kartrtvam. He is completely under the control of material nature; still, he is thinking, "I am free. I am the master. I can do anything, whatever I like. There is no need of accepting the authority of God." This is called maya. Maya-mohita. Tribhir gunamayair bhavair mohitam nabhijanati, mam ebhyah param avyayam [bg. 7.13]. These rascals, they are bewildered by the three kinds of material modes of nature. Tribhir gunamayair bhavair mohitam nabhijanati, mam ebhyah param. They cannot understand that in the background of everything there is the supreme authority of God. This is called atheism. Although they are being kicked every moment by the modes of material nature, they are feeling that "I am under the control of some power, superior power..." That is appreciating. Just like I gave you the example: the death, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [bg. 13.9]. They are trying to stop, the birth control, but still, the statistics is that every second or every moment, every three minutes, there is one population increased. So this is janma. Similarly, mrtyu. Mrtyu means death. So there are so much scientific improvement, medicine and technology and so many things, but who can check mrtyu, death? Even the scientist cannot. Big, big scientist, why do they not manufacture something that "As soon as I am dead, please inject this medicine. I will come out again." No, that is not possible.

So you cannot solve the problem of janma, or you cannot solve the problem of mrtyu. You cannot solve the problem of being old, invalid, disease. Then where is your solution of problems? But still, they are proud, "We are advancing." What you have advanced? The real problem are there. Nobody could solve. Try the history of the whole world. There have been so many big, big empires: the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Mogul Empire. But where are those empires, and where are those emperors? When I go to Agra, I pass through the fort, and they show, "Here the emperor Shah Jahan lived. Here the emperor..." Where is that Shah Jahan now? The place is there. Similarly, in France, in a park there is Napoleon's statue: "Napoleon and France, the identity." And I asked them that "Your France is here, but where is your Napoleon?" (laughter)

 

So this is going on, foolishness, so many foolish persons, full of... And they are controlling this material world. Therefore it is very precarious condition. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah [sB 7.5.31]. Isa-tantryam. Just like if your hands and legs are tied very fast with some rope, and if you say, "I am independent," what is the meaning of it? If your hands and legs are tied up by a strong rope and still you think that you are independent, has it got any meaning? Similarly, we are tied up by the stringent rules and regulation of the material nature so fast, and still if we think that we are independent, is that very sanity conjecture? No. Even in your eating process, you are so much tied up by the rules and regulation that if you eat little more than you can digest, then there will be some disease immediately. Immediately there will be indigestion, diarrhea. You will have to suffer. If you enjoy when you are youthful too much sex life, then after a few days you will be impotent, no more sex life. In this way we are simply tied up by the rules and regulation of the material nature, and still, we are defying the authority and thinking, "I am independent." This is called rascaldom, mudha. They have been described in the Bhagavad-gita as mudha, all rascals. You cannot control the laws of material nature and you are thinking you are independent? And the laws of material nature means material nature is the agent. Real conductor is Krsna. Krsna says,

 

 

mayadhyaksena prakrtih

suyate sa-caracaram

hetunanena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[bg. 9.10]

 

 

So behind the material nature there is God. Under His direction material nature is working. Chayeva yasya bhuvanani bibharti durga [bs. 5.44]. Durga, the material nature power, is working just like chaya, shadow. So in this way... There is a Bengali verse,

 

 

pisaci paile yena mati-cchanna haya

maya-grasta jivera haya se bhava udaya

 

 

Pisaci, ghost, witch. There is some haunting of ghost, and when a man is ghostly haunted, he speaks so many nonsense. Maya-grasta. Pisaci paile yena mati-cchanna haya. Similarly, under the spell of maya we defy everything, "Where is God? Can you show me God?" He is seeing every step God. God is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, how you can see God in every step, if you learn how to see God. That is taught in the Bhagavad-gita. Krsna says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh [bg. 7.8]. God is teaching that "You try to see Me in this way." What is that? "When you taste the water of, the taste of the liquid, water or anything," raso 'ham apsu kaunteya, "that taste is I am." So you want to see God, but you are tasting so many liquid thing. Why don't you think that "Here is God. The taste is God"? God is teaching. You learn how to see God. Your this blunt eyes, how you can see God now? You try to see God in this way, as God says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh [bg. 7.8].

 

Now, if actually a philosophical minded man is there, if he simply makes research, "Wherefrom this nice taste came in the water?" he can see God because ultimately he has to come to God. If he researches, make research, "Wherefrom the sunshine came...?" You can say the sunshine is coming from the sun globe, but for further research work, you cannot go even there. But if you are actually student, philosophical minded, if you make darsana... Philosophy means darsana. Darsana means seeing. See more, see more, see more. In this way you will ultimately come. Isvarah paramah... Then he will come to this conclusion: bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [bg. 7.19]. If you are actually serious student, research worker, then after executing research work for many, many birth, when you are actually wise, jnanavan, then you will surrender to Krsna. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [bg. 7.19].

 

So this is the way. But these rascals, infatuated by false ego and under the spell of material nature, being kicked by material nature, thinking that he is kartr, karta... Kartaham iti manyate. Kartrtvam: "I am doing. I am... We have made so much advance in research, so much scientific advancement, this and that, so many things." No. It is not possible. Without God's hand, you cannot do anything. Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [bg. 15.15]. A scientist working very hard to find out some chemical or some physical thing, but there are many others working. But unless Krsna from within gives his proper intelligence, he cannot invent the particular thing. That is not possible. Krsna gives him intelligence. Mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [bg. 15.15]. One... Two scientists working: one has become successful, and one is not successful. Why? Both are working very hard. The one is favored by Krsna, and the other is not favored. Otherwise how you can explain? If material knowledge is sufficient, both of them working hard to find out the truth of a scientific discovery, but one is able to find out, another is not able, then how you can explain these discrepancies? The only explanation is that one is favored by Krsna, and the other is not favored.

 

Actually, it so happened. You know this Marconi's invention of wireless telegram. So Marconi and many other scientist were working on this line. One of them was Sir Jagadish Candra Bose. So this was explained by Sir Jagadish Candra Bose in a meeting -- I was a boy at that time, in Calcutta -- that they were discussing, Marconi and Dr. Bose, Sir Jagadish Candra Bose, about these waves, and so actually Dr. Bose discovered this wireless. The Marconi heard it from Bose, and immediately he published in the paper. And the British government gave him preference that he became the inventor of this wireless telegram, but actually it was Dr. Bose. So that means he was favored. Krsna gave him intelligence, "Now you take this opportunities, takes this theory explained by Dr. Bose, and you publish it. You get the name." Nimitta-matram bhava savyasacin. This is the explanation. One is working very hard day and night, and another is enjoying the result. Why? That is prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah, ahankara [bg. 3.27]. You may think that you are doing, but you are under the control of the material nature, and the material nature is controlled by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So therefore, ultimately, you are controlled by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

But being spelled by the material nature, he is thinking that...

 

 

evam parabhidhyanena

kartrtvam prakrteh puman

karmasu kriyamanesu

gunair atmani manyate

 

 

Atmani, gunaih. So we have contacted, we have infected some prakrti, some guna, some quality of the material nature. We are acting in that way. So at the present moment the material life means we are all working under the spell of this material nature, gunaih, gunaih. So I have got this body, Indian body. I am thinking, "I am Indian. My duty is like this, like that." One is born in America. He is thinking like that. One is born in dog family. He is thinking like that. One is born in cat's family... In this way, different varieties of body and different varieties of thinking. Different varieties of body. It is due to the body. So karmasu kriyamanesu. We do actually according to the body or according to the temperament. Karmasu kriyamanesu gunaih. And that is spelled by this material nature. And I am identifying myself in that way: "I am this,I am that,I am Hindu,I am Muslim,I am Christian,I am brahmana,I am American,I am Christian," like that. Gunaih karmani sarvasah. So this is our conditional life. Because Kapiladeva is speaking on the subject matter of atma-darsana. So if we identify like that, that "I am American,I am Indian,I am brahmana,I am ksatriya," or "I am cat,I am dog," then we shall continue this life, this conditional life by the material nature. We shall continue forever. Nitya-baddha. Forever. "Forever" means we cannot calculate how long we shall continue. That is... It is not nitya actually, but because I do not know from whence it has begun, neither I know when it will end, therefore it is called nitya-baddha. Nitya-baddha.

 

So we are nitya-baddha, eternally bound up, by these laws of material nature, and we are wandering throughout the universe according to karma. Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah [bg. 14.18]. If we work on the sattva-guna... Gunaih karmani... We... Vicitra: there are so many varieties. So we may go sometimes up to Brahmaloka. That is not very difficult. But abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [bg. 8.16]. Either you go to Brahmaloka or Patalaloka or any loka, this form or that body, you will have to go through these four principles of material condition: birth, death, old age and disease. That is not possible to overcome. That you can overcome only -- mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [bg. 7.14]. Therefore the conclusion is that instead of serving under the spell of material nature, let us immediately transfer our position to become the original. Original means eternal servant of God, Krsna. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is our constitutional position. We are eternal servant of God, Krsna. So if we take to it immediately... Krsna says also, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [bg. 7.14]. The spell of maya we can overcome if we immediately take the instruction of Krsna, that He says, "You surrender unto Me, and I shall give you all protection from the sinful reaction of your life."

 

So that is our business, immediately. But we do not know. There is no such education. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [sB 7.5.31]. They do not know what should be the aim of education, aim of life. They do not know it. They..., because they are bewildered. Yaya sammohito jiva atmanam tri-gunatmakam manute [sB 1.7.5]. Atmanam sammohito jivah, being bewildered, being captivated, yaya sammohito jivah, with the maya, the material nature, being captured and bewildered by her, yaya sammohito jiva atmanam tri-gunatmakam, he is thinking that "I am identified with the three gunas." Somebody is thinking that "I am brahmana. I am brahmana, the most pure, most exalted person in the human society." This is sattva-guna. Tri-gunatmakam. Somebody is think..., identifying himself with the sattva-guna, somebody is identifying himself with the rajo-guna, somebody is identifying himself in the tamo-guna, or somebody is identifying with the mixed up. So in this way going on. Yaya sammohito jivah.

 

Vyasadeva said, yaya sammohito jiva atmanam tri-gunatmakam, manute anartham. So anartham, some useless purpose of life, anartham.

 

So the Vyasadeva recommended, or Suta Gosvami said, anartha upasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje. If you want to get out of this anartham, unwanted and purposeless life of material existence... That one should first of all understand, that this material existence is anartham. Anartham means purposeless life. There is no purpose. Real purpose should be how to get out of the spell of material nature. That is real purpose. They do not know. They do not know. They are taking very seriously some temporary purpose of life, which will be changed with the change of body. Now, as human being, I am manufacturing so many purposes of life, but as soon as the body is changed and I get the body of a cat or dog or tree, the whole purpose is changed. Therefore it is purposeless life, anartham. There is no meaning of this purpose. Because everything will be changed with the change of your body. Therefore they do not... They shudder to think of, that "We have got next life." They therefore deny, "No, there is no next life. This life is finished." A foolish life. That is not.

 

So anartha upa... In order to get out of this anartham, purposeless life, anartha upasamam... Upasamam means curbing down or finish it, upasamam, finishing. Anartha upasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje. The... If you want to be free from this purposeless, useless life, then you have to engage yourself in the bhakti-yogam adhoksaje, to the Supreme. Anartha upasamam saksad bhakti-yogam. Saksat, directly. Yo may have many other means to become free from this useless, purposeless life. There may be karma, jnana, yoga. But that is indirect. That is not actually factual. Suppose a poor man is trying to get out of this condition, poor condition. He becomes a rich man. So that is also purposeless. From poor man to become rich man, it is also purposeless. Because today you are rich man; again you will become poor man. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [sB 7.5.30], chewing the chewed, sometimes poor man, sometimes... Practically we see a man in our presence. He was very poor man; he became rich man. And again his everything, business, failed. He again became a poor man. So this kind of poor man, rich man, sometimes Brahma, sometimes ant, sometimes cats, dogs -- this is all purposeless life. Purpose... Real life is eternal blissful life, sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [bs. 5.1]. That should be our aim of life.

 

So if you want that life and if you want to get free from this purposeless life, anartha upasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje, then you have to take to bhakti-yogam, transcendental loving service to the Lord. That is called bhakti-yogam. People do not know. Therefore Suta Gosvami says, lokasya ajanatah: "These people, they do not know it, how to get out of this purposeless life." Anartha upasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje, lokasya ajanatah. The people, general people, they do not know it; neither they are interested, because they are so fool. So lokasya ajanato vidvams cakre satvata-samhitam [sB 1.7.6]. Vidvan, Vyasadeva, the vidvan, he compiled this Srimad-Bhagavatam. So srimad-bhagavatam amalam puranam. If you read Srimad-Bhagavatam... (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.26.6 -- Bombay, December 18, 1974

[Bishadi]

 

So behind the material nature there is God.

 

panentheism?

 

 

Panentheism (from Greek πᾶν (pân) "all"; ἐν (en) "in"; and θεός (Theós) "God"; "all-in-God") is a belief system which posits that God exists and interpenetrates every part of nature, and timelessly extends beyond as well. Panentheism is distinguished from pantheism, which holds that God is synonymous with the material universe.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-0>[1]</SUP>

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In panentheism, God is viewed as creator and/or animating force behind the universe, and the source of universal truth. This concept of God is closely associated with the Logos as stated in the 5th century BC works of Heraclitus (ca. 535–475 BC), in which the Logos pervades the cosmos and whereby all thoughts and things originate; e.g., "He who hears not me but the Logos will say: All is one." A similar thought espoused by Jesus and interpreted by the New Thought movement as being synonymous: "The Father and I are one." (John 10:30)

 

While pantheism asserts that God and the universe are coextensive, panentheism claims that God is greater than the universe and that the universe is contained within God. Panentheism holds that God is the "supreme affect and effect" of the universe.

 

So basically it seems maybe this idea you are proposing is that God is separate from mankind?

 

Perhaps the foolish 'rascal' would believe such? And then to teach such isolation could never perfect crishna conscious.

 

Irresponsible?