So what kind of Vaishnava devotee are you? Or are you even a devotee?

[gauragopala dasa]

So, yam yam vapi smaram bhavam, devotees will think of these things. And what will happen? Devotees will go there, to where these things are. 'Spiderman', 'Indiana Jones', 'Sex in the City', 'The Simpsons', 'The Sopranos',or 'Steven Spielberg'- lokas.

 

 

 

So, what kind of Vaishnava devotee are you? Or are you even a devotee?

 

 

The following is an excellent class by Sivarama Swami

 

It’s a shame that these questions need to be addressed, but there’s a need for it because the phenomena exists, and devotees become bewildered when they see this inappropriate conduct from Vaisvavas.

 

But then, that’s variety in Krishna consciousness.

 

Krishna consciousness doesn’t mean that there are only pure devotees. Srila Prabhupada gave us pure devotional service, as did Caitanya Mahaprabhu, but it means there will also be a whole spectrum of Krishna consciousness practiced by different types of devotees, from very strict and conservative, to the very liberal, accommodating, or those not very faithful to the main principles Srila Prabhupada gave in terms of sad-acara and sadhana.

 

And that’s to be expected. People are individuals, they have different modes of nature, association, goals in life, and the result is that when they come in contact with Krishna consciousness they will practice differently.

 

The objectionable thing is that devotees should not rationalize that a lower variety of Krishna consciousness is OK and is acceptable, no big deal, and we should therefore not change those standards.

 

Rather, we accept that a variety of practice will be there, that some will follow 4 regs, others 3, others 2, in the same way some will be more strict with these things like no TV, no movies, forbidden foods, coffee, etc., and others won’t be.

 

How can we avoid that? We can’t just force that only one type of Krishna consciousness will be followed. But based on Srila Prabhupada’s teachings and books, we should readily accept what the standard is.

 

But regularly watching TV and movies: there are two main defects in this activity, whether they’re done regularly or even occasionally. The first is that this media always includes intoxication, graphic sex life, violence, and gambling.

 

Therefore watching it means to break the regulative principles. What reason do we have that we would go out of our way to observe and watch these activities of Kali-yuga when already it’s difficult enough to stay away from it, when even walking down the street, going into a shop or going out on harinama or sankirtana, these things are bombarding us and challenge the consciousness of a serious practitioner.

 

So why would I want to bring these things into my own home, to give ideas to children? Answer: because people have material desires and they give into them. I’ll come back to that in a moment.

 

The second defect is that anything you see makes an impression in the heart. So the rampant violence, sex, intoxication, bad language, immoral behavior, irreverence for the real values of life, and fairytale worlds like Spiderman jumping off buildings and flying through the air, these make an impression in the heart, and when they do they become a source of meditation, something to meditate on, because these impressions will come out at a later time. Not only as a reflection of the mind but something that creates seeds of material desires in the heart and which will also water existing seeds of desire in the heart.

 

So it is a very detrimental practice. But back to the first point, breaking principles.

 

Initiated devotees vow to follow regulative principles.

 

When referring to brahmacaris and sannyasis in this regard, we say that even in the mind if one contemplates these things he is breaking the principles. But while grhasthas might have license, they only have that within their own marriage situation.

 

They don’t have a license to view sexual activities or these other things. So for them to contemplate it, to view it, to enjoy it: it’s all breaking the principles. How then can an initiated devotee do these things with a clear conscience?

 

And what is the effect of breaking the regulative principles? We commit sin. And by committing sin, we complicate our spiritual lives, entangle ourselves in material existence, and suffer from the results of that sin.

 

By committing sin there’s an effect in the mind, and that is that sinful thoughts linger in heart. They come up like bubbles from the mud and become the source of other sinful desires, which then become the result of further sinful acts.

 

Ultimately what devotees see on TV and in movies, they’ll end up doing. If they see infidelity, they’ll end up doing it. If they see violence or other activities, they’ll do that. When they become bewildered thinking materialism, egoism, pride in the material body is the ultimate goal, they become more body conscious and egotistical.

 

 

 

 

 

All these things strangle the creeper of devotional service and make one’s devotional life more or less null and void.

 

Why do they do this?

 

Well, obviously because they’re not doing what they should be, which is chanting Hare Krishna and hearing Srimad Bhagavatam and Caitanya-caritamrita.

 

They’re not doing those activities without offense and they’re not doing them enough. And so they don’t have enough spiritual strength to resist the social pressure from those who are doing these things, nor do they have the strength to resist the inner desires that are still there in conditioned souls.

 

So this may be the way of mixed devotional service. OK, so maybe we can say that is the way of broad-based preaching and Krishna consciousness spreading to all kinds of people.

 

What can be done? Some will be like that. But it shouldn’t be passed off as ok, desirable, that it’s no big deal, that it’s conducive to pure devotional service. Otherwise in due course of time we’ll become like other religions whom we criticize for compromising their own values, religions for whom eating cows is no big deal.

 

Recently when I was in the UK there was this issue in the media where some Hindu organization was objecting to the proposal that Hindus don’t eat meat. They were publicly arguing that Hindus are meat eaters.

 

Now maybe it is a fact that Hindus do eat meat, but still to be in a situation where we are publicly standing up in the media and saying that in Hinduism you eat meat when less than 30 years ago 80% of Hindus didn’t eat meat, it’s an indication of how people are willing to change a standard.

 

Everyone has their own choice, but it should be very clear that it’s against Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, that it’s not ok, it’s a compromise and a lowering of standards.

 

And it should be clear that a lower standard indicates a different type of devotee than one who is practicing a higher standard. Even if that devotee who has made so many compromises in his Krishna consciousness is nicer, more polite, and so many other things, at least that’s something on the behavior of sad-acara, and that’s one thing, but where does the mixture of TV and movies and devotional service lead?

 

Krishna says, yam yam vapi smaram bhavam. When you fill the mind with superfluous things, when they’re rampant in the heart, it is inevitable that this will be our consciousness.

 

We won’t be Krishna conscious, we’ll be Spiderman conscious.

 

We will not be Krishna conscious. What will happen? At the time of death we won’t be able to think of Krishna.

 

We haven’t practiced, and our thoughts of Krishna have been subdued by such an oppressive, fast-moving, violent and aggressive media that locks these things in the mind like a Xerox.

 

They’re not just going to go away, they have to be purified and only pure devotion will purify them.

 

So, yam yam vapi smaram bhavam, devotees will think of these things. And what will happen? Devotees will go there, to where these things are. Spiderman-loka. Great. You go there.

 

But how can a real devotee, a real follower of Srila Prabhupada, conscientiously sit and spend his time watching these things, knowing that Srila Prabhupada rose at 1am and toiled in the early hours to give us Srimad Bhagavatam and Caitanya-caritamrita, he sacrificed his life, shortened his life, just so we could purify our consciousness, to put Krishna in our hearts, that we’d be ale to think of Krishna while living in this world and when we leave this world, that when we leave our bodies we will ultimately go to Him.

 

I really hope I never become entangled in such compromising acts: I would consider that I was being unfaithful and ungrateful to Srila Prabhupada, and I hope I am never in a situation where I try to rationalize my illicit and foolishly materialistic behavior in the name of Krishna consciousness.

 

I would not consider that if I was doing these things that I was a Prabhupada man, or the type of man that Srila Prabhupada wanted his followers to be.

 

by Sivarama Swami

 

Hare Krishna

[cbrahma]

I had a SivaRama as my temple president. He was tough and this lecture has his mood.

I agree with him that one should follow the regs if one is chanting and aspires to be a devotee. In fact that is what initiation is all about - faithful following. It transcends religious ceremony. How many initiated brahamanas have fallen down, not to mention gurus, by slipping on the basic regulative principles?

In fact there is no more conclusive argument against the religious formalism of a so-called traditionalist than the statistics of fall down in the ranks of the initiated.

That being said,

 

described in Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 3 Chapter Twenty-nine. Srila Prabhupada gives this summary in his purport to verse 10 of that chapter.

 

 

 

Devotional service in the modes of ignorance, passion and goodness can be divided into eighty-one categories. There are different devotional activities, such as hearing, chanting, remembering, worshiping, offering prayer, rendering service and surrendering everything, and each of them can be divided into three qualitative categories. There is hearing in the mode of passion, in the mode of ignorance and in the mode of goodness. Similarly, there is chanting in the mode of ignorance, passion and goodness, etc. Three multiplied by nine equals twenty-seven, and when again multiplied by three it becomes eighty-one. One has to transcend all such mixed materialistic devotional service in order to reach the standard of pure devotional service, as explained in the next verses.

 

 

 

[gauragopala dasa]

 

I had a SivaRama as my temple president. He was tough and this lecture has his mood.

 

 

 

Sivarama Maharaj is standing behind Srila Prabhupada

 

[Bishadi]

devoted to contributing

 

and smiling during the experience

[Svarupa]

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, yam yam vapi smaram bhavam, devotees will think of these things. And what will happen? Devotees will go there, to where these things are. 'Spiderman', 'Indiana Jones', 'Sex in the City', 'The Simpsons', 'The Sopranos',‘Michael Jackson', 'Thomas Hamilton', 'Martin Bryant', ‘Beatles' or 'Steven Spielberg'- Lokas

 

 

 

 

What ever we think of at the time of death, that's where we go or become like, more so than what you could ever imagine!!.

 

 

 

 

As the saying goes, be careful of what you wish for.

 

 

Chapter 8, Verse 5.

And whoever, at the time of death, quits his body, remembering Me alone, at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt.

 

Chapter 8, Verse 6.

Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail.

 

Chapter 8, Verse 7.

Therefore, Arjuna, you should always think of Me in the form of Krsna and at the same time carry out your prescribed duty of fighting. With your activities dedicated to Me and your mind and intelligence fixed on Me, you will attain Me without doubt.

 

 

Always Chant Hare Krsna,

regardless of how fallen we are and how some arrogent 'so called' devotees treated us because of 'their' ignorance of not seeing ' we are not these material bodies' but are long lost devotees of Krsna, attempting to regain our original constitutional possition as servant of the servants of Krsna

 

 

[Kulapavana]

the 'strict kibutz' method of raising children has been tried in Iskcon and it failed miserably on all fronts. People like Sivarama Swami lecturing others how to raise children? what a joke! they were all a total failure in the grihastha asrama and have no clue as to what it takes to have a family. yes, America is brainwashed, but so are many devotees in Iskcon.

[bija]

 

But how can a real devotee, a real follower of Srila Prabhupada, conscientiously sit and spend his time watching these things, knowing that Srila Prabhupada rose at 1am and toiled in the early hours to give us Srimad Bhagavatam and Caitanya-caritamrita, he sacrificed his life, shortened his life, just so we could purify our consciousness, to put Krishna in our hearts, that we’d be ale to think of Krishna while living in this world and when we leave this world, that when we leave our bodies we will ultimately go to Him.

 

I really hope I never become entangled in such compromising acts: I would consider that I was being unfaithful and ungrateful to Srila Prabhupada, and I hope I am never in a situation where I try to rationalize my illicit and foolishly materialistic behavior in the name of Krishna consciousness.

 

I would not consider that if I was doing these things that I was a Prabhupada man, or the type of man that Srila Prabhupada wanted his followers to be. sivarama swami quoted by gauragopala dasa

 

 

In Australia I would say approximately 70% of our TV shows are coming from USA.

 

I don't think one has to be an aspiring renunciate devotee to realize that most of the American sitcoms and movies are generally crap. IMHO. Some are even quite sick (my parents love that show - Criminal Minds - that show is so twisted).

 

We live in an amazing universe, full of diversity and culture. So much good information and beauty could be shown on TV. So much to be inspired about that paints a picture of God's beauty. Would a devotee be slack if he watched that kind of thing, with a thoughtful intelligent mind?

 

I have read that Srila Prabhupada would read newspapers occasionally to keep aware of the times and environment and then apply the info in tactical preaching. Ofcourse one should not read or watch too many things...but complete restriction may not produce good result either. Just a bunch of close minded religionists even. There is so much beauty that reflects Krsna...it is not all maya surely...if we have eyes to see.

 

With 'steadily progressive' sadhana taste will automatically awaken...and a blaring tv screen with spider-man just won't hit the spot any more.

 

Surely devotees can use their intelligence, and choose not to grock out on Indian Jones too much;). Srila Prabhupada did say we need to apply intelligence...I think that is better than being a robot.

 

Ofcourse I am not as renounced as H.H. Sivarama Swami. When I artificially tried to be a renunciate I 'eventually' fell. Now the journey has begun. In a balanced way...so yes I still think I am a devotee!

[bija]

What I mean to say is have you ever watched a sunrise in a nature setting, heard the birds, seen the glimmer of dew. Looked in wonder at the beauty of the plants and animal life (diversity). Or glimpsed a certain depth in the smile on your friends face.

 

While in your heart seeing a vision of Sri Krsna. Devotional feelings within - feeling something deeper than external day to day consciousness. Maybe with application we can choose good tv and good recreation. And then oneday go deeper into Naam bhajana:pray:.

 

Krsna consciousness is life. The ability to see and feel him in all things.