What is religion?

cbrahma · June 11, 2008

On this forum there are so many interests and concerns expressed. So many different factions and claims to exclusive authority. But what are the chances of understanding God and developing a relationship with Him?

Prabhupada has been quoted as saying 'Religion is learning how to love God'

Reporter: Mr. Billy Graham makes people God conscious in a different way. Can you tell me what you think of him?
Prabhupada: I do not know what is Billy Graham, but I am following the Vedic principle, Bhagavad-gita as it is. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [bg. 18.66]. God says that “You give up all nonsense occupation, simply surrender unto Me, and I take charge of you and give you protection.” This is our philosophy.

Reporter: Can I ask you some questions about your general attitudes on things going on around us? For instance, what do you feel about man going to the moon? (laughter)

Prabhupada: This is simply a waste of time. I already commented on this when I was in San Francisco. The reporters asked me this very question. I flatly replied that it is simply waste of time and money. That’s all. (laughter)

Reporter: What about something very much nearer to ourselves here in this country, and that is a war or civil disturbance is going on...

Prabhupada: Well, war is going on.

Reporter: ...between Christians?

Prabhupada: No. We are not Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. We are God’s servant. That’s all. Anyone who is God’s servant, there is no disagreement. And when one is maya’s servant, servant of maya, illusion, there is disagreement. So it doesn’t matter. Our test is, sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [sB 1.2.6]. That system of religion is first class which teaches how to love God. That’s all. It doesn’t matter whether it is Christian religion, Muhammadan religion or Hindu religion. We shall see. If the follower of the religion has learned how to love God, then his religion is perfect. Otherwise it is useless.

Reporter: But do you not think it’s worth going to such places as Ireland and trying to talk to the people out there to stop warring?

Prabhupada: Now, this is our talking, that the first-class religion is that which teaches how to love God. Try to understand this. This is the simple formula.

The process is simple is it not? It is indeed the religion of the age - the yuga dharma

<CENTER>

yuga-dharma pravartaimu nama-sankirtana

cari bhava-bhakti diya nacamu bhuvana

</CENTER><CENTER>SYNONYMS</CENTER>yuga-dharma--the religion of the age; pravartaimu--I shall inaugurate; nama-sankirtana--chanting of the holy name; cari--four; bhava--of the moods; bhakti--devotion; diya--giving; nacamu--I shall cause to dance; bhuvana--the world.

<CENTER>TRANSLATION</CENTER>"I shall personally inaugurate the religion of the age--nama-sankirtana, the congregational chanting of the holy name. I shall make the world dance in ecstasy, realizing the four mellows of loving devotional service."

Kalau tad dhari-kirtanat - in the age of Kali, it is Hari-kirtana, the chanting of the Lord's names, that delivers us. In fact, due to our own disqualifications, no other process of self-realization will be effective in this age of Kali, other than the chanting of the Lord's names:

harer nama harer nama

harer namaiva kevalam

kalau nasty eva nasty eva

nasty eva gatir anyatha

"In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy the only means of deliverance is chanting of the holy name of Sri Hari. There is no other way, no other way, no other way."

tatrarpita niyamita smarane na kalah

"There are no restrictions (niyamas) for chanting the Lord's name; neither must one take consideration of the time or circumstances."

Also there can be no controversy - about this or that organization - this or that guru.

A jealous person in the dress of a Vaisnava is not at all happy to see the success of another Vaisnava in receiving the Lords mercy. Unfortunately in this age of Kali there are many mundane persons in the dress of Vaisnavas and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has described them a disciples of Kali. He says, Kali-cela, he indicates that there is another Vaisnava, a pseudo-Vaisnava with tilaka on his nose and kunti beads around his neck. Such a pseudo-Vaisnava associates with money and women and is jealous of successful Vaisnavas. Although passing for a Vaisnava, his only business is earning money in the dress of a Vaisnava. Bhaktivinoda Thakura therefore says that such a pseudo-Vaisnava is not a Vaisnava at all, but a disciple of Kali-yuga. A disciple of Kali cannot become an acarya by the decision of some high court. Mundane votes have no jurisdiction to elect a Vaisnava acarya. A Vaisnava acarya is self-effulgent, and there is no need for any court judgement. A false acarya my try to override a Vaisnava by a high-court decision, but Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that he is nothing but a disciple of Kali-yuga. (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, Ch 1, 218-219)

anbumathy · June 11, 2008

that's our culture and all

shvu · June 11, 2008

Religion is a set of beliefs and practices, often centered upon specific supernatural and moral claims about reality, the cosmos, and human nature, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.

- Wikipedia

<TABLE class=wikitable style="WIDTH: 90%"><TBODY><TR></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=4>Abrahamic religions

3.4 billion

</TD><TD>Christianity</TD><TD>2.1 billion</TD><TD>1st c.</TD><TD>Worldwide except Northwest Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, and parts of Central, East, and Southeast Asia.</TD></TR><TR><TD>Islam</TD><TD>1.5 billion</TD><TD>7th c.</TD><TD>Middle East, Northern Africa, Central Asia, South Asia, Western Africa, Indian subcontinent, Malay Archipelago with large population centers existing in Eastern Africa, Balkan Peninsula, Russia, Europe and China.</TD></TR><TR><TD>Judaism</TD><TD>14 million</TD><TD>1300 BCE</TD><TD>>Israel and among Jewish diaspora (live mostly in USA and Europe)</TD></TR><TR><TD>Bahá'í Faith</TD><TD>7 million</TD><TD>19th c.</TD><TD>Dispersed worldwide with no major population centers</TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=4>Indian religions

1.4 billion

</TD><TD>Hinduism</TD><TD>900 million</TD><TD>no founder</TD><TD>Indian subcontinent, Fiji, Guyana and Mauritius</TD></TR><TR><TD>Buddhism</TD><TD>376 million</TD><TD>Iron Age (1200–300 BCE)</TD><TD>Indian subcontinent, East Asia, Indochina, regions of Russia.</TD></TR><TR><TD>Sikhism</TD><TD>25.8 million</TD><TD>15th c.</TD><TD>India, Pakistan, Africa, Canada, USA, United Kingdom</TD></TR><TR><TD>Jainism</TD><TD>4.2 million</TD><TD>Iron Age (1200–300 BCE)</TD><TD>India, and East Africa</TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=7>Far Eastern religions

500 million

</TD><TD>Taoism</TD><TD>unknown</TD><TD>Spring and Autumn Period (722 BC-481 BC)</TD><TD>China and the Chinese diaspora</TD></TR><TR><TD>Confucianism</TD><TD>unknown</TD><TD>Spring and Autumn Period (722 BC-481 BC)</TD><TD>China, Korea, Vietnam and the Chinese and Vietnamese diasporas</TD></TR><TR><TD>Shinto</TD><TD>4 million</TD><TD>no founder</TD><TD>Japan</TD></TR><TR><TD>Caodaism</TD><TD>1-2 million</TD><TD>1925</TD><TD>Vietnam</TD></TR><TR><TD>Chondogyo</TD><TD>1.13 million</TD><TD>1812</TD><TD>Korea</TD></TR><TR><TD>Yiguandao</TD><TD>1-2 million</TD><TD>c. 1900</TD><TD>Taiwan</TD></TR><TR><TD>Chinese folk religion</TD><TD>394 million</TD><TD>no founder, a combination of Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism</TD><TD>China</TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=3>Ethnic/tribal

400 million

</TD></TR><TR><TD>Primal indigenous</TD><TD>300 million</TD><TD>no founder</TD><TD>India, Asia</TD></TR><TR><TD>African traditional and diasporic</TD><TD>100 million</TD><TD>no known founder</TD><TD>Africa, Americas</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Cheers

Bishadi · June 11, 2008

Religion is a set of beliefs and practices, often centered upon specific supernatural and moral claims about reality, the cosmos, and human nature, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.

- Wikipedia

<TABLE class=wikitable style="WIDTH: 90%"><TBODY><TR></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=4>Abrahamic religions

3.4 billion

</TD><TD>Christianity</TD><TD>2.1 billion</TD><TD>1st c.</TD><TD>Worldwide except Northwest Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, and parts of Central, East, and Southeast Asia.</TD></TR><TR><TD>Islam</TD><TD>1.5 billion</TD><TD>7th c.</TD><TD>Middle East, Northern Africa, Central Asia, South Asia, Western Africa, Indian subcontinent, Malay Archipelago with large population centers existing in Eastern Africa, Balkan Peninsula, Russia, Europe and China.</TD></TR><TR><TD>Judaism</TD><TD>14 million</TD><TD>1300 BCE</TD><TD>>Israel and among Jewish diaspora (live mostly in USA and Europe)</TD></TR><TR><TD>Bahá'í Faith</TD><TD>7 million</TD><TD>19th c.</TD><TD>Dispersed worldwide with no major population centers</TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=4>Indian religions

1.4 billion

</TD><TD>Hinduism</TD><TD>900 million</TD><TD>no founder</TD><TD>Indian subcontinent, Fiji, Guyana and Mauritius</TD></TR><TR><TD>Buddhism</TD><TD>376 million</TD><TD>Iron Age (1200–300 BCE)</TD><TD>Indian subcontinent, East Asia, Indochina, regions of Russia.</TD></TR><TR><TD>Sikhism</TD><TD>25.8 million</TD><TD>15th c.</TD><TD>India, Pakistan, Africa, Canada, USA, United Kingdom</TD></TR><TR><TD>Jainism</TD><TD>4.2 million</TD><TD>Iron Age (1200–300 BCE)</TD><TD>India, and East Africa</TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=7>Far Eastern religions

500 million

</TD><TD>Taoism</TD><TD>unknown</TD><TD>Spring and Autumn Period (722 BC-481 BC)</TD><TD>China and the Chinese diaspora</TD></TR><TR><TD>Confucianism</TD><TD>unknown</TD><TD>Spring and Autumn Period (722 BC-481 BC)</TD><TD>China, Korea, Vietnam and the Chinese and Vietnamese diasporas</TD></TR><TR><TD>Shinto</TD><TD>4 million</TD><TD>no founder</TD><TD>Japan</TD></TR><TR><TD>Caodaism</TD><TD>1-2 million</TD><TD>1925</TD><TD>Vietnam</TD></TR><TR><TD>Chondogyo</TD><TD>1.13 million</TD><TD>1812</TD><TD>Korea</TD></TR><TR><TD>Yiguandao</TD><TD>1-2 million</TD><TD>c. 1900</TD><TD>Taiwan</TD></TR><TR><TD>Chinese folk religion</TD><TD>394 million</TD><TD>no founder, a combination of Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism</TD><TD>China</TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=3>Ethnic/tribal

400 million

</TD></TR><TR><TD>Primal indigenous</TD><TD>300 million</TD><TD>no founder</TD><TD>India, Asia</TD></TR><TR><TD>African traditional and diasporic</TD><TD>100 million</TD><TD>no known founder</TD><TD>Africa, Americas</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Cheers

Why thank you!

At least you defined how 'religion' is not ONE sect or belief.

As to honor religion, then we see God/Lord/Vishnu/brahma/the total.... in all of them!

Very kind of you to observe your 'brothers' opinion as well!

liselina · June 12, 2008

'religion' is not ONE sect or belief. :smash:

A servant of god is a sevant of god.

If the DIVINE were a tree, then the religions would be like people standing around the tree trying to describe it. They all look at the same tree yet have a different vantage point from which to describe the tree. And the description of the tree (however eloquent) is not the tree.

Bishadi · June 12, 2008

'religion' is not ONE sect or belief.

A servant of god is a sevant of god.

If the DIVINE were a tree, then the religions would be like people standing around the tree trying to describe it. They all look at the same tree yet have a different vantage point from which to describe the tree. And the description of the tree (however eloquent) is not the tree.

AMEN

or

HARE HARE RAMA RAMA

or simply 'way to hammer it out liselina.'

liselina · June 12, 2008

Thank you, Namaste

The hammer is funny isn't it? I thought it was a flag. Still, it fits.

Bishadi · June 12, 2008

There is this Al guy that I wish to quote;

"About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indocrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws."

So the business of religion as all mankind (womenkind too) is to identify the rules that are equal to humanity rather than convince a faith as absolute just because it makes one 'feel good' for the self.

If our fathers did nothing to benefit their tomorrow, we would not even have the terms or words to convey in the first place.

i.e..... the words Hare Krshna would not even be in use (especially in the west), if a man did not make a decision to 'do' rather than talk and defend.

Amlesh · June 12, 2008

There is this Al guy that I wish to quote;

"About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indocrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws."

So the business of religion as all mankind (womenkind too) is to identify the rules that are equal to humanity rather than convince a faith as absolute just because it makes one 'feel good' for the self.

If our fathers did nothing to benefit their tomorrow, we would not even have the terms or words to convey in the first place.

i.e..... the words Hare Krshna would not even be in use (especially in the west), if a man did not make a decision to 'do' rather than talk and defend.

Good thought, that's why I suppose Christ did not revealed his Father's name in the West. I suppose He understood what the circumstances and time asked Him to do so.

suchandra · June 12, 2008

What is religion - the non sectarian summary of Bhagavat-Gita.

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Bishadi · June 12, 2008

Good thought, that's why I suppose Christ did not revealed his Father's name in the West. I suppose He understood what the circumstances and time asked Him to do so.

There are many frames to observe a 'why' but the one that makes the most sense, is the knowledge had not evolved.

Faith brings the hope of a completion; which is not adverse. This is a pretty uniform representation in the prophetic side but in the teachings often the requisite is the submission to 'not' being aware or incapable.

Such that to remain in humility to not being capable to understanding, simply enable a humility to a compassionate interrelation of equally unfit to know.

Almost like a teacher keeping the children down to remain sovereign to the knowledge; to maintain the job of moderating.

Or simply if each person was aware of what to do and what life is purely; then who needs a guru?

shvu · June 12, 2008

Good thought, that's why I suppose Christ did not revealed his Father's name in the West. I suppose He understood what the circumstances and time asked Him to do so.

What about those circumstances and time? What do you think would have happened if the name was revealed back then?

Cheers

Bishadi · June 12, 2008

What about those circumstances and time? What do you think would have happened if the name was revealed back then?

Cheers

Perhaps knowledge had not evolved; such the same can be noted in the progression of India's religions with Hinduism and the varieties born thereof.

and since equality is the combining idea in presenting knowledge; then what is the single language that is pretty uniform in all the world's societies?

Mathematics.

The pure name will be in Math!

krsna · June 12, 2008

Real Religion is not Man-made

by

Swami B.G. Narasingha

During a recent visit to Europe I had some informal discussions about religious conceptions with other Gaudiya Vaisnavas and I was surprised to hear some devotees speak about such groups as the Sufis, Whirling Dervishes, Jews, Christians, Catholics, Orthodox Christians and Muslims as being deeply ‘surrendered’ souls. Of course, generally speaking this may be true – but surrendered to what? I would like to point out in this article that sraddha [faith], saranagati [surrender] and seva [service] are spiritual substances and activities that are only transcendental when in direct connection to Krsna and that the popular religions of today’s world are but the continuation of a Vedic heresy that began long, long ago in ancient times.

The first point is that dharma [real religion] is given by God himself – dharman tu saksat bhagavat pranitam. Real religion is not man-made. Dharma is the knowledge and activities of the intrinsic relationship that exists between Krsna and all living entities eternally. This is sometimes called sanatana-dharma, eternal religious principles. In a word sanatana-dharma has been summed up as seva, or the living entities relationship of service to the Supreme Being. Therefore, so-called service to various deities or to icons that are conjured by man can never be considered seva in the true sense of the word.

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura once commented on the situation of spirituality in India that, "At present many false meanings have been imported into the word devotion. Regard for one’s parents, loyalty to man, obedience to the teacher, etc, pass as bhakti.” (Sarasvati Thakura, lecture, Vrndavana 1928)

In a similar way one can say about western spirituality that all sorts of misconceptions and innovations have also been passed off as spiritual practices, devotion, service, love of God, etc, when in fact they are not.

In Sanskrit the root word bhaj means to serve. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has pointed out by quoting the Garuda Purana in Bhakti-Tattva-Viveka, Ch.1 as follows:

“The word bhakti is derived from the root verb form bhaj. It is said in the Garuda Purana (Purva-khanda 231.3)

bhaj ityesa vai dhatuh

sevayam parikirtitah

tasmat seva budhaih prokta

bhaktih sadhana-bhuyasi

“The verbal root bhaj means to render service. Therefore, thoughtful sadhakas should engage in the service of Sri Krsna with great endeavor, for it is only by such service that bhakti is born.”

The basis of dharma is rooted in transcendental knowledge of the soul [atma], the Supersoul [Paramatma] and the Personality of Godhead [bhagavan]. In reality no such knowledge of the soul, the Supersoul or the Personality of Godhead exists in the world’s popular mundane religions. Therefore, intelligent human beings do not accept the popular mundane religions as transcendental.

Referring to the scriptures of the world’s religions in the west, Sarasvati Thakura commented as follows:

"Senselessly killing living beings simply for the purpose of pleasure is fundamental to all these religions. Unlike the transcendental words of the Vedas, none of these paths are eternal. Therefore, one who deliberates upon these scriptures will naturally develop doubt about them since they lack a solid foundation." (Sarasvati Thakura, purport, Cc. Adi 17.169)

Additionally, sraddha and saranagati [faith and surrender] presuppose seva. First surrender, then serve: tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya. This surrender means far more than one’s strict obedience to a master or teacher of a particular technique or thought. Surrender means, complete obedience to the will of Krsna and not to that of anything else. First surrender [pranipatena] then serving mood [sevaya] manifests. And to surrender one must have faith, sraddha.

If one believes in a particular conception or philosophy that is not a bona-fide siddhanta, or an axiomatic truth regarding the Absolute Truth, then according to sastra [laws and by-laws of dharma] such so-called belief is only a temporary state of mind fabricated under the modes of material nature. Such a mental belief system is not to be confused with sraddha.

Real sraddha is not a state of mind influenced by the modes of nature. Sraddha is an influence over the heart that confirms to the living entity the path of devotional service, krsna-bhakti. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has written the following in this regard in his Mahaprabhur Siksa, ch 10.

The definition of sraddha is this:

sraddhah sabde visvasa kahe sudrdha niscaya

krsne bhakti kaile sarva karma krta haya

“By performing transcendental loving service to Krsna, one automatically performs all secondary activities. This confident, firm faith, that is favorable to the execution of devotional service is known as sraddha.” (Cc. Madhya 22.62)

To have firm conviction that devotion to Krsna is the only means for the living entity, and that performance of karma and jnana devoid of bhakti are useless. Such a favorable inclination of the heart is called sraddha.

Sraddha is a purely spiritual illumination that emanates from the internal energy of Godhead, the hladini-sakti, Sraddha-devi. This energy as it is, knows no Lord and master other than Krsna and therefore sraddha does not come to the living entities to reveal any lesser gods or masters. As Srila Sridhara Maharaja has said, “Sraddha is the halo of Srimati Radharani and saranagati is the halo of Krsna.”

Sraddha reveals Krsna [Visnu] and no other. However, if one finds oneself following or appreciating man-made religions, such as those of the Abrahamic tradition, then this is due to one’s own misfortune and karma and not due to the guiding revelations of sraddha.

In brief, sraddha has been described by some of Gaudiya Vaisnava’s greatest acaryas as the halo of Srimati Radharani and the firm conviction that by serving Krsna all other purposes will be served.

The numerous so-called religions of the world that exist outside the Vedic system are not transcendental because they have no real connection to the Absolute Truth. Over time the proponents of these major world religions have done much harm to the world and deceived a multitude of people by engaging them in impious activities and all in the name of ‘good faith.’

If one deeply studies western theology and the history of religion one will discover that all contemporary religious thought has originated from the time of the Rg-Vedic civilization. These religious thoughts however did not come to the world as wholesome theology but rather as a Vedic heresy. The first heresy of this kind was Zoroastrianism that gained a following in the western frontiers of the Rg-Vedic civilization, namely in Iran, before the Rg-Veda was written.

Zoroaster the founder of Zoroastrianism preached a doctrine of monotheism but he did not accept the monotheistic God [Visnu] of the Vedas. Zoroaster instead put forward the worship of the Asuras [demons] and proposed Ahura [Asura] Mazda as the Supreme Deity. Zoroaster also created other anti-Vedic conceptions to embellish his new religion and Bhaktivinoda Thakura explains them in Tattva-viveka:

"Zarathustra [Zoroaster] is a very ancient philosopher. When his philosophy found no honor in India, Zarathustra preached in Iran. It was by the influence of Zarathustra’s ideas that Satan, an equally powerful rival to God, made his imaginary appearance first in the religion of the Jews and then in the religion based on the Koran. Then, influenced by Zarathustra's idea of two Gods, the idea of three gods, or a ‘Trinity’ made its appearance in the religion [Christianity] that had come from the Jewish religion.

"At first, three separate gods were concocted in the philosophy of Trinity. Later, learned scholars were no longer satisfied with this, so they made a compromise stating that these three concocted gods were God, the Holy Ghost, and Christ." (Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Tattva-viveka 1/21)

Several thousand years after Zoroaster, in approximately 500 BCE, the Persian Empire brought the Zoroastrian ideas of monotheism to Judea. In Judea the Jews abandoned their many pagan deities and adopted the idea of one God whom they called Yaweh, the tribal god of the Mountains or the god of Abraham. The idea that there is one Supreme God took hold in Judea but, as with the followers of Zoroastar, who the Supreme God was eluded them.

Prior to that time all Mediterranean cultures of the ancient world had been pagan in their beliefs. From monotheism, first being introduced into Judaism by the Persians, later Christianity developed and then Islam developed along those lines. But in no case was the nature, characteristics and personality of Godhead clearly known.

In some circles of western Vaisnavas, ideas abound about personalities such as Jesus Christ being an incarnation of Lord Brahma, Lord Balarama or even Srila Prabhupada being an incarnation of Jesus. These ideas have no sastric basis and devotees should be cautious about accepting ideas and conclusions that are contrary to the opinions of previous acaryas.

Thus, all the so-called religions west of the Indus River can rightfully be called a heresy, of a heresy, of a heresy of the Vedic religion. This continuous unfolding of man, adding to and subtracting from real religion, is a process that continues to the present day in the name of the Protestant Church and New Age Religions. Unfortunately, none of these said heresies represent the Supreme Godhead, or do anything except deceive the living entities about the ultimate goal of life.

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shvu · June 12, 2008

Perhaps knowledge had not evolved; such the same can be noted in the progression of India's religions with Hinduism and the varieties born thereof.

But Jesus was right there in person to give them the necessary knowledge!

They already knew and accepted their local version of God as an old, bearded angry man who was in control. How hard would it be for them to switch to a desi version of a clean-shaven God wearing Indian style silk dhotis and earrings?

It is not a question of intelligence apparently as our esteemed colleagues on this forum have argued several times. They have been severely critical of people who have tried to approach the topic of God through intelligence and logic. So no evolution of knowledge or intelligence was necessary.

Even today, the majority of the world is not worshipping Krishna. But that did not stop the name from being circulated anyway. So what was the problem with releasing the name in the middle east just 2000 years ago?

Are we still gonna hunt for lame excuses or can we be more honest and admit that the most likely option is Jesus never heard of Krishna? And there is absolutely no evidence to show otherwise? Ot is this approach a problem because it is rational?

Cheers

krsna · June 12, 2008

Bishadi · June 12, 2008

But Jesus was right there in person to give them the necessary knowledge!

Born of Mary.

Rather than Devaki; in an emaculate similarity.

Still men who walked and still live in the words and hearts of today; because they conveyed the compassion evolved to 'their' time; by choice!

They already knew and accepted their local version of God as an old, bearded angry man who was in control. How hard would it be for them to switch to a desi version of a clean-shaven God wearing Indian style silk dhotis and earrings?

Ask them,

'duty was to fight for, and protect, the righteous people, not to prevent the war'

It is not a question of intelligence apparently as our esteemed colleagues on this forum have argued several times. They have been severely critical of people who have tried to approach the topic of God through intelligence and logic. So no evolution of knowledge or intelligence was necessary.

Then what is there to teach in words, math, philosophy, medicine and Love? Let's be intelligent with logic to convey; rather than stiff with pride to retain a position.

Even today, the majority of the world is not worshipping Krishna.

Nor Jesus, Moses, Mohammed or even Buddha; each contributors not God's, only one completeness to all existence; the total; Vishnu/Braham/God..... not an old guy with a beard, that was Zeus.

But that did not stop the name from being circulated anyway. So what was the problem with releasing the name in the middle east just 2000 years ago?

Perhaps Krsna was said of birth I believe it was closer to 5000 years ago, so Jesus was not even a twinkle of hope at the name given, per writings.

Are we still gonna hunt for lame excuses or can we be more honest and admit that the most likely option is Jesus never heard of Krishna? And there is absolutely no evidence to show otherwise? Ot is this approach a problem because it is rational?

Cheers

And most do not know the name Quexalcoatl either.

Perhaps Vishnu has more to unfold? Maybe a new name; nameste ?

liselina · June 13, 2008

Real religion is not man made

QUOTE:

The numerous so-called religions of the world that exist outside the Vedic system are not transcendental because they have no real connection to the Absolute Truth. Over time the proponents of these major world religions have done much harm to the world and deceived a multitude of people by engaging them in impious activities and all in the name of ‘good faith.’

If one deeply studies western theology and the history of religion one will discover that all contemporary religious thought has originated from the time of the Rg-Vedic civilization. These religious thoughts however did not come to the world as wholesome theology but rather as a Vedic heresy.

There will always be some who must defend their religion. A faithfull servant of the Divine knows there is nothing to defend. Their path is right for them. What others make of it is irrelevant.

Religion, like any tool can do good or ill. It depends upon who's hands it is in. A knife for example can be used to cut fruit or harm another. Do we blame the knife?

Forgive me.

Must we fight like children in a playground squabbling over who's mother is the prettiest? Does it matter? Talk of heresy invites divisiveness. Does it help the climate of our times? I beleive there is right action, thought and so on. Yet we cannot aleviate others internal suffering. This is acheived only through surrender to the Divine. And with so many billions of people on this planet, it is no wonder there are so many paths. I sometimes ask my child: What would the world be like if every one was the same? Her anwer: BORING. Not enlightened perhaps, but relevant just the same. No?

Namaste

cbrahma · June 13, 2008

Real religion is not man made
QUOTE:

The numerous so-called religions of the world that exist outside the Vedic system are not transcendental because they have no real connection to the Absolute Truth. Over time the proponents of these major world religions have done much harm to the world and deceived a multitude of people by engaging them in impious activities and all in the name of ‘good faith.’

If one deeply studies western theology and the history of religion one will discover that all contemporary religious thought has originated from the time of the Rg-Vedic civilization. These religious thoughts however did not come to the world as wholesome theology but rather as a Vedic heresy.

There will always be some who must defend their religion. A faithfull servant of the Divine knows there is nothing to defend. Their path is right for them. What others make of it is irrelevant.

Religion, like any tool can do good or ill. It depends upon who's hands it is in. A knife for example can be used to cut fruit or harm another. Do we blame the knife?

Forgive me.

Must we fight like children in a playground squabbling over who's mother is the prettiest? Does it matter? Talk of heresy invites divisiveness. Does it help the climate of our times? I beleive there is right action, thought and so on. Yet we cannot aleviate others internal suffering. This is acheived only through surrender to the Divine. And with so many billions of people on this planet, it is no wonder there are so many paths. I sometimes ask my child: What would the world be like if every one was the same? Her anwer: BORING. Not enlightened perhaps, but relevant just the same. No?

Namaste

Very nice heartfelt and complete response.

Amlesh · June 13, 2008

What about those circumstances and time? What do you think would have happened if the name was revealed back then?

Cheers

Chanakya Pandit: When milk which is pure product is given to a snake, it makes its venom more powerful. Similarly when pure knowledge is given to a person who has liking for Vice, allergical reactions are created.

When he said part of Truth, he was subjected to so much of cruelty and you are asking me the effect of saying the whole Truth.

Amlesh · June 13, 2008

Perhaps knowledge had not evolved; such the same can be noted in the progression of India's religions with Hinduism and the varieties born thereof.

and since equality is the combining idea in presenting knowledge; then what is the single language that is pretty uniform in all the world's societies?

Mathematics.

The pure name will be in Math!

Knowledge can never evolve. It is eternal, constant, changeless.

It's speculations, doubt, beliefs that evolve or rather oscillate.

If knowledge depends on evolution, then there is no greater fool than us, discussing unnecessarily when we know in the future there is a new version of Truth [Truth1.12012] or something else and why are you treating your grand fathers as monkeys.

tackleberry · June 13, 2008

Chanakya Pandit: When milk which is pure product is given to a snake, it makes its venom more powerful. Similarly when pure knowledge is given to a person who has liking for Vice, allergical reactions are created.

When he said part of Truth, he was subjected to so much of cruelty and you are asking me the effect of saying the whole Truth.

As he was subject to cruelty in any case, he might've spoken the whole truth rather than the partial truth, right? Even the word 'Krishna' at the very end could've prevented a lot of confusion amongst us.

Bishadi · June 13, 2008

Real religion is not man made
QUOTE:

The numerous so-called religions of the world that exist outside the Vedic system are not transcendental because they have no real connection to the Absolute Truth. Over time the proponents of these major world religions have done much harm to the world and deceived a multitude of people by engaging them in impious activities and all in the name of ‘good faith.’

If one deeply studies western theology and the history of religion one will discover that all contemporary religious thought has originated from the time of the Rg-Vedic civilization. These religious thoughts however did not come to the world as wholesome theology but rather as a Vedic heresy.

There will always be some who must defend their religion. A faithfull servant of the Divine knows there is nothing to defend. Their path is right for them. What others make of it is irrelevant.

Religion, like any tool can do good or ill. It depends upon who's hands it is in. A knife for example can be used to cut fruit or harm another. Do we blame the knife?

Forgive me.

Must we fight like children in a playground squabbling over who's mother is the prettiest? Does it matter? Talk of heresy invites divisiveness. Does it help the climate of our times? I beleive there is right action, thought and so on. Yet we cannot aleviate others internal suffering. This is acheived only through surrender to the Divine. And with so many billions of people on this planet, it is no wonder there are so many paths. I sometimes ask my child: What would the world be like if every one was the same? Her anwer: BORING. Not enlightened perhaps, but relevant just the same. No?

Namaste

I agree.... compassion, kindness, humility....

Must we fight like children in a playground squabbling over who's mother is the prettiest?

And in this pride and selfish preservation is the cause or defensive reactions versus comprehensive dialogue; see the middle east.

Does it matter? Talk of heresy invites divisiveness.

and why logic and the equality of the human experience is the setting of conveyance; to honor the acheivements and combining similarities

Does it help the climate of our times?

As if a new vaccine to cure; knowledge honored as the gift is like a cure.

I beleive there is right action, thought and so on.

and without question integrity and honesty is the number one 'right action' as it is one we each can be responsible for.

Yet we cannot aleviate others internal suffering.

Not neccessarily, as compassion between people can move mountains.

This is acheived only through surrender to the Divine.

And since all of existence is the only pure divinity, as flesh and blood maintains the experience of choice; then divinity is bound to the individuals experience and integrity of representations. As what one may do in surrendering to God (divine) may be interpretted as ill regard to another; see the variety of cultures.

And with so many billions of people on this planet, it is no wonder there are so many paths. I sometimes ask my child: What would the world be like if every one was the same? Her anwer: BORING. Not enlightened perhaps, but relevant just the same. No?

And that is what religions try and do; assimilate.

Just as the migration from india to the west in 1966; an evangelical movement.

i.e...... if every person was to remain focused on the complacent teaching of a faith; and each was to conform; then what would ever be accomplished but a 'boring' existence with no ability to evolve with knowledge.

It is usually the rebel that commits (divine devotion) for to learn and represent knowledge; as the progression lives.

bhaktajan · June 13, 2008

Yes, the white shirt best matches the white pants. And the white shoes are perfect with that white hat. What's that? A white Handkerchief? Fabulous match!

WHAT IS RELIGION????

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami [iso 2P]:

. . . Karma, akarma and vikarma are very clearly described in the Bhagavad-gétä. Actions that are performed in terms of one’s prescribed duties, as mentioned in the revealed scriptures, are called karma. Actions that free one from the cycle of birth and death are called akarma. And actions that are performed through the misuse of one’s freedom and that direct one to the lower life forms are called vikarma. Of these three types of action, that which frees one from the bondage to karma is preferred by intelligent men.

. . . In the Bhagavad-gétä (3.9–16) the Personality of Godhead says that one cannot attain the state of naiñkarmya, or akarma, without executing the prescribed duties mentioned in the Vedic literature. This literature can regulate the working energy of a human being in such a way that he can gradually realize the authority of the Supreme Being. When he realizes the authority of the Personality of Godhead—Väsudeva, or Kåñëa—it is to be understood that he has attained the stage of positive knowledge.

matarisvan · June 13, 2008

Chanakya Pandit: When milk which is pure product is given to a snake, it makes its venom more powerful. Similarly when pure knowledge is given to a person who has liking for Vice, allergical reactions are created.

When he said part of Truth, he was subjected to so much of cruelty and you are asking me the effect of saying the whole Truth.

I dont understand. Are you saying Jesus did not tell his disciples the name Krishna because he was afraid of torture? He was killed because he was seen as a political threat. The Romans were not concerned about the details of his teachings. Revealing the name krishna or not revealing it would have made no difference.

What about Moses and the old testament? If they came from God why was the name Krishna absent in their teachings? There was no threat of torture at that time.

What is religion?

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