Fall from Vaikuntha

[bhaktajan]

I am posting this thesis by Realist [under 'Spirtual Discussions' Thread ~ "fall-theory = mayavada" post #16] because it is so well stated:

 

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As Originally Posted by Realist:

Quote:

 

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Srila Prabhupada – ‘originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha’.

 

Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

 

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Our original position is eternal, we are all eternally nitya-siddha which IS our original and eternal position, presently covered while we dream away in the material creation.

The Brahmajyoti or Krsna’s effulgence, IS the entire creation, divided up into three zones of conscious thought, from devotional activity in the Vaikunthas, to conditioned activity in the mahat-tattva, to inactivity in the dormant dreamless state - All are aspects of the Brahmajyoti

These different aspects of the Brahmajyoti can be achieved or experienced by free will and choice however, ONLY Krsna's abode and the Vaikunthas, that make up 75% of the Brahmajyoti, Spiritual Sky or creation, are without end and situated in the personal active 'eternal present' of Krsna's perpetual pastimes.

The other 25% of the Brahmajyoti is made up of those who have chosen to forgotten their nitya -siddha body in the 'eternal present' and have entered that part of creation known as the perishable mahat-tattva and later on may enter the temporary impersonal Brahman, both in a 'dream consciousness' known as the baddha-jiva.

This devotional active original fullness of the Brahmajyoti is eternal personal, which means it is made up of ALL living entities that are perpetually represented there in their perpetual nitya-siddha body serving Krsna

For a living entity, who has transmigrated through the lower species to the human biological body, simply means that the living entity had FIRST chosen to ‘consciously (like in a dream), fall down from Krsnaloka, long, long, long ago, from also the eternal body that is their real perpetual ‘self’ (nitya-siddha) whose only activity there is serving Krsna or God.

This was achieved by free will and choice; the marginal living entity therefore is able to leave Goloka ‘consciously’ as their secondary lower baddha-jiva consciousness and travel to the heavenly planets within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.

The baddha-jiva may then travel further to the middle planets, then the hellish planets, and the then to lower species of biological life.

Some baddha-jivas may also take shelter in the dormant aspect of their own baddha-jiva consciousness that is collectively, along with other baddha-jivas who have also chosen the dreamless dream state, known as the impersonal aspect of the Brahman effulgence

The impersonal characteristic of the Brahmajyoti or Brahman IS the nitya-baddha souls in a collective of souls that IS the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.

The brahmajyoti is full of jiva-souls; the word sarva-gatah means life IS the Brahmajyoti and is everywhere. So, what is the Brahmajyoti?

The Brahmajyoti or Krsna’s effulgence, IS the entire creation, divided up into three zones of conscious thought, from devotional activity in the Vaikunthas, to conditioned activity in the mahat-tattva, to inactivity in the dormant dreamless state - All are aspects of the Brahmajyoti

1.The Vaikunthas and Krsnaloka those are always active in service to Krsna or Vishnu

2. The mahat-tattva or material creation of Maha-Vishnu that is where the marginal living entity can CHOOSE to go to lead their own way of life without Krsna

3. When those who have entered the mahat-tattva become fed up with the temporary frustrating nature of the material world and the vessels or bodies they move around in, they often seek an inactive dormant state of consciousness.

They only seek out such an end to their existence because they still have no memory or recollection of their eternal body in Krsnaloka.

Therefore, due to this ignorant state the baddha-jiva is in, they choose to learn through the yogic process, to ‘close their consciousness down’ and stop the generation of thought. (which can be achieved, but is also a temporary dormant 'state of the baddha-jiva's consciousness".

This dormant conscious state of the baddha-jiva is known as the impersonal Brahmajyoti, which means it is the ‘inactive ‘state of consciousness of the souls that make up and IS the Personal Brahmajyoti – hence its reflection is the impersonal aspect of that same Brahmajyoti.

[RadhaMukunda]

You always post other people's writings. It looks like you can't think for yourself. Anything you've written yourself didn't make sense.

[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by RadhaMukunda:

You always post other people's writings. It looks like you can't think for yourself. Anything you've written yourself didn't make sense.

 

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Your exposing your public angel hairs!

 

You nasty.

 

Blooming Naga babas Now?!

 

I could have guessed. Any excuse to exposed your proclivities.

 

Long live Fredy Mercury and his acolyites.

[indulekhadasi]

But really Bhaktajan prabhuji, I don't understand much of what you say. I think it is because I am too fallen. Your words are so high for me, that to me it seems like a bunch of funny jokes. I am too fallen to understand the rahasya of your madhura vani, your sweet words of the highest spiritual truths.

I think perhaps with me you need to take some time and explain things to me, because I am very dumb in spiritual life.

[Bhaktiasitis]

 

I think perhaps with me you need to take some time and explain things to me, because I am very dumb in spiritual life.

 

READ Pradyumna Swami's 'Origin of the jiva and the 'eternal present'

 

GOOGLE - 'Origin of the jiva and the 'eternal present'

 

Jay Radhe

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[indulekhadasi]

I know everything about the fall of the jiva issue. Just because I know about the fall of the jiva issue doesn't mean I automatically become a great devotee.

I think this simple part of jiva tattva has become more like a big political thing. Just a point of view of a neophyte 14 year old.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

But really Bhaktajan prabhuji, I don't understand much of what you say. I think it is because I am too fallen. Your words are so high for me, that to me it seems like a bunch of funny jokes. I am too fallen to understand the rahasya of your madhura vani, your sweet words of the highest spiritual truths.

I think perhaps with me you need to take some time and explain things to me, because I am very dumb in spiritual life.

Indulekha Ji, I think you understand a lot more than you think. Bhaktajan just doesn't make much sense.

[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by RadhaMukunda:

You always post other people's writings. It looks like you can't think for yourself. Anything you've written yourself didn't make sense.

 

.................................................. ..........................................

Deciphering my sarcasism:

 

Your exposing your public angel hairs!

[RadhaMukunda has changed his avatara to which I was referring to here--His avatara was a Sitting Naga-Baba (aka, naked Sadhu) with scantly visable Pubic area. 'Angel Hair' is a type of very thin Spagetti.]

 

You nasty.

[in my experience: Young Black Children would say "You nasty" to someone saying or doing an inappropriate/illicit act.]

 

Blooming Naga babas Now?!

["Blooming"--British-ism, expressing 'astonishment'; also, form of word Blossom as in Flower Blossom. From Shivite-ism to Naga-Babas (aka, naked Sadhus)]

 

I could have guessed. Any excuse to expose your proclivities.

[since RadhaMukunda is a shameless 'up-start' (aka, trouble-maker) I could guess that he would post arresting visuals . . . that expose his private propensities (aka, proclivities)]

 

Long live Fredy Mercury and his acolyites.

["Queen" was a most influential British Rock 'n Roll Music Band of the 1970/80's; their lead singer was Fredy Mercury, whose style was very Homo-erotic. Acolyites means dedicated followers -- IOW, a charasmatic pop idol and his followers. Fredy Mercury died of Aids.]

 

Of course my statements were rude and low and especially "OFF THREAD" --not that there's any thing wrong with that!

 

Bhaktajan

 

PS: "not that there's any thing wrong with that" --this is a line from the American TV Comedy called 'Seinfeld'--where the two male lead characters where thought to be Gay partners

by a Columbia University Student Journalist trying to interview them.

To which the male lead characters exclaimed,

"We are not Gay, not that there's any thing wrong with that!"

[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by RadhaMukunda:

1) You always post other people's writings. It looks like you can't think for yourself. Anything you've written yourself didn't make sense.

 

2) Bhaktajan just doesn't make much sense.

 

3) [On 'Advaita' Section RadhaMukunda started a new Thread] where RadhaMukunda says: "Bhaktajan & PrinceGotham! I challenge you both to debate your position" --(Shiva is God vs. Vishnu/Krishna is God).

 

...........................................................................................................................

So RadhaMukunda has spoken out of one side of his face only to

then find it worthy to extend to ME an invitation to debate --so if I am

so un-able to make my sober opinions plain to readers,

then where is the dignity in RadhaMukunda's request?

 

RadhaMukunda desires to hear a fool speak?

 

RadhaMukunda always fosters fools to speak? --While berating

the invited person on his way to the podium,

that RadhaMukunda is hosting?

 

.................................................................

ATTENTION EVERYONE --I started this thread with these words:

 

"I am posting this thesis by Realist because it is so well stated"

[as found under 'Spirtual Discussions' Thread post #16]

 

This is how I show respect to my senior mentors. I can do this because I can see who is in what position,

Bhaktajan

[srikanthdk71]

 

This is how I show respect to my senior mentors. I can do this because I can see who is in what position,

Bhaktajan

 

I liked your name BHAKTAJAN. But I request you to kindly change it to Prabhupada Bhaktajan or Chaitanya Bhaktajan. You hate Lord Shiva, you hate the "Maayavaadi"s. You hate Adi Shankara, You hate Advaita philosophy, Your time starts only from the period when prabupada made his existance. You live in a limited boundry and try to say that all the world exists within those walls and not outside it. So broad is your perspective. Try and break the barriers that you have built for yourself in the form of your organisation that you are loyal to. Truth is something beyond a Chaitanya, prabupada and even for that matter Sri Adi Shankara. Realise yourself from the present and not waste time in glorifying the past. It is not going to happen again. So, what is going to happen is what you do. Be your own mentor NOW!!!

[RadhaMukunda]

He might understand it in an encrypted messages.

 

We are here talking about sprituality and he is quoting american popstars.

[srikanthdk71]

 

He might understand it in an encrypted messages.

 

We are here talking about sprituality and he is quoting american popstars.

 

The child has stepped to a path and thinks that being Missionary is a Seva done to his seniors. He doesnt believe in uplifting himself to their or beyond their level. He believes that they should lend a helping hand to lift him which is next to impossible. The person who has lost belief from himself can only depend on the bookish quotes made in the past or he will experience and tell the world what he really is.

[bhaktajan]

Surrender!

Surrender Now!

 

You must surrender to a senior Vaishnava or

you will surrender to a lesser authority.

 

"Following your bliss" is a concept that requires the

"Absolute Truth" otherwise you will follow "Subjective Truth".

 

Such Subjective Truth(s) are only as good as the species of bodies you possess for some short (or long) life span.

 

Your priorities are evidently start and end with your pleasuring your senses--that is all you are preaching.

 

Having said that, I presume that you are unaware of higher pursuits other than sense-gratification, ie:, fame, adoration & distinction and especially first and definitely not least of all, Sex pleasures.

 

You don't know these things, Right?

 

Your suggestions are all about pursuing your dreams in a world of wars, famine, death, exploitation, querrel, hypocracy, lust and the repetition of birth after birth via blind faith in your petty sized insignificance.

 

May your pettiness end,

Bhaktajan

[RadhaMukunda]

I suppose you are a frustated sannyasi?

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

I suppose you are a frustated sannyasi?

Try: a frustrated little boy who has a superiority complex and communicative disorder.

[srikanthdk71]

 

Surrender!

Surrender Now!

You must surrender to a senior Vaishnava or

you will surrender to a lesser authority.

Bhaktajan

 

Light your own lamp. Do not live in the light of others. They are like the car that can take you to your home. But once you reach home, you dont take your car inside. You park it out and it is YOU who walk into your home.

 

 

Surrender!

"Following your bliss" is a concept that requires the

"Absolute Truth" otherwise you will follow "Subjective Truth".

Such Subjective Truth(s) are only as good as the species of bodies you possess for some short (or long) life span.

Bhaktajan

 

Bliss Eternal is not a concept. It is an Experience which you also can experience unless you leave thinking too much.

 

 

Surrender!

Your priorities are evidently start and end with your pleasuring your senses--that is all you are preaching.

Having said that, I presume that you are unaware of higher pursuits other than sense-gratification, ie:, fame, adoration & distinction and especially first and definitely not least of all, Sex pleasures.

 

You don't know these things, Right?

 

Your suggestions are all about pursuing your dreams in a world of wars, famine, death, exploitation, querrel, hypocracy, lust and the repetition of birth after birth via blind faith in your petty sized insignificance.

 

May your pettiness end,

 

Bhaktajan

 

Who is preaching to pleasurise the senses? The yogis or the Bhogis(?). Who is trying to keep the seekers under their influence? If Krishna himself decends on this earth again, you will look up to your masters to confirm that he is Krishna? Will you not? Such is your dependancy. Just question yourself the way you are heading is towards the TRUTH or a limited set of Beliefs which is projected as the Absolute Truth by an Institution. Last but not the least, hope you would have understood by now the meaning of pettiness.

[Amlesh]

A frustrated little boy or a frustrated Sanyassi sincerely surrendered to Hari is far much better than an exalted personalty devoid of the Bhagvata Doctrine.

[srikanthdk71]

 

A frustrated little boy or a frustrated Sanyassi sincerely surrendered to Hari is far much better than an exalted personalty devoid of the Bhagvata Doctrine.

 

Mahatma, the frustration never goes and the wanting is always there in the Pravritti Way where as in the Nivritti or Vyragya, the craving for the truth exists. When there is search for truth, it should be Absolute Truth and not partial Truth. Hari, Hara Brahmaadi are partial truths. They too are bound by Karmas. The absolute is unbound and infinite. The choice is yours. Yes, the surrender to Hari is easy. But what next? A true seeker will always be restless and in want of answers however he may pretend that he has no deviations in his belief. But when he finds the answer for himself, there is no other way is what he says. Ultimately, YOU are the experiencer.

[Amlesh]

 

Mahatma, the frustration never goes and the wanting is always there in the Pravritti Way where as in the Nivritti or Vyragya, the craving for the truth exists. When there is search for truth, it should be Absolute Truth and not partial Truth. Hari, Hara Brahmaadi are partial truths. They too are bound by Karmas. The absolute is unbound and infinite. The choice is yours. Yes, the surrender to Hari is easy. But what next? A true seeker will always be restless and in want of answers however he may pretend that he has no deviations in his belief. But when he finds the answer for himself, there is no other way is what he says. Ultimately, YOU are the experiencer.

 

what's next???

 

Dear Sri, after knowing that, I'll tag the title Mahatma to you also.

 

I'll give you a hint for this what's next....

 

Go first of all read the Gita, and then the Bhagvatam....

 

Everything is there for the mystery concerning what's next...

[bhaktajan]

Not Originally Posted by srikanthdk71 — but there are Symbolic Parallels with pure sense-gradification [not that there's anything wrong with that]:

Great enjoyer-person,

the frustration never goes and the wanting is always there in married-life,

where as in the divorced or single-life,

the craving for the varieties of Women exists.

When there is search for Women, it should be Absolute Beautiful Women and not Ugly Women.

Divorced Women, handicapped Women, Fat Women, are Ugly Women.

They too are bound by high-maintenance Fees.

.

The Beautiful Women are unbound and infinite.

The choice is yours.

Yes, to surrender to Ugly Women is easy.

But what next?

A true Player will always be restless and in want of more Beautiful Women however he may pretend that he has no deviations in his own lawfully wedded wife.

But when he finds the Beautiful Women for himself, "there is no other way", is what he says.

Ultimately, YOU are the enjoyer.

Bhaktajan,

PS: No offense meant to Ugly males.

[RadhaMukunda]

 

Try: a frustrated little boy who has a superiority complex and communicative disorder.

 

He confirmed it.

[bhaktajan]

 

Try: a frustrated little boy who has a superiority complex and communicative disorder.

 

I'm afraid that is illegal except in some back alleys of some southeast asian cities.

 

But I'm sure you're sincere in your quest to rectifiy you own Inferiority complex. May God help your Blooming arse.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

A frustrated little boy or a frustrated Sanyassi sincerely surrendered to Hari is far much better than an exalted personalty devoid of the Bhagvata Doctrine.

Bhaktajan is the most 'exalted personality' of them all, since he thinks that we must surrender to him. He's vain, pompous, and arrogant. He has expressed no devotion to Hari here. The only person he's even asked us to surrender to is himself.

And, what is Bhagavata Doctrine? Is Bhagavata Doctrine comparing Shaiva devotion to that of a prostitute's reliance on drugs and sex? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling Shiva and Shakti whores? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling Shaivas and Shaktas the pimps of Shiva and Devi? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling all Shaivas and Shaktas 'demigod worshippers' who are 'selfish'? Is Bhagavata Doctrine asking others to surrender to you because you view yourself as having a sense of entitlement next to that of God Himself? Is that what Bhagavata Doctrine is? Because, if it is, then Bhaktajan certainily fits the criteria for a follower of 'Bhagavata Doctrine'.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

I'm afraid that is illegal except in some back alleys of some southeast asian cities.

 

But I'm sure you're sincere in your quest to rectifiy you own Inferiority complex. May God help your Blooming arse.

You do realize that you make sense to no one but yourself, don't you?

[Amlesh]

 

Bhaktajan is the most 'exalted personality' of them all, since he thinks that we must surrender to him. He's vain, pompous, and arrogant. He has expressed no devotion to Hari here. The only person he's even asked us to surrender to is himself.

And, what is Bhagavata Doctrine? Is Bhagavata Doctrine comparing Shaiva devotion to that of a prostitute's reliance on drugs and sex? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling Shiva and Shakti whores? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling Shaivas and Shaktas the pimps of Shiva and Devi? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling all Shaivas and Shaktas 'demigod worshippers' who are 'selfish'? Is Bhagavata Doctrine asking others to surrender to you because you view yourself as having a sense of entitlement next to that of God Himself? Is that what Bhagavata Doctrine is? Because, if it is, then Bhaktajan certainily fits the criteria for a follower of 'Bhagavata Doctrine'.

 

Might be...

 

But if he is sincere in his quest for Hari, then even the worst is considered the best.

 

It's a different platform.