Fall from Vaikuntha

RadheyRadhey108 · July 30, 2008

Might be...

But if he is sincere in his quest for Hari, then even the worst is considered the best.

Well, I'm sure he'd have no qualms admitting that he thinks he's the best.

It's a different platform.

So, in other words, you don't know what it is?

bhaktajan · July 30, 2008

I try to spare you un-pleasant truths so as to let live as blissfully innocents do, but you keep asking for medicine:

.................................................. ....................................

SB 1.2.26:

Those who are serious about liberation are certainly nonenvious, and they respect all. Yet they reject the horrible and ghastly forms of the demigods and worship only the all-blissful forms of Lord Viñëu and His plenary portions.

.................................................. ....................................

SB 11.2.6:

Those who worship the demigods receive reciprocation from the demigods in a way just corresponding to the offering. The demigods are attendants of karma, like a person’s shadow, but sädhus are actually merciful to the fallen.

.................................................. ....................................

SB 3.2.37:

O gentle one, of all the physical elements, beginning from the sky down to the earth, all the inferior and superior qualities are due only to the final touch of the glance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

.................................................. ....................................

SB 3.28.22:

The blessed Lord Çiva becomes all the more blessed by bearing on his head the holy waters of the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com ><st1:place w:st= Ganges</st1:place>, which has its source in the water that washed the Lord’s lotus feet. The Lord’s feet act like thunderbolts hurled to shatter the mountain of sin stored in the mind of the meditating devotee. One should therefore meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for a long time.

<st1:place w:st="on">Ganges</st1:place>, which has its source in the water that washed the Lord’s lotus feet. The Lord’s feet act like thunderbolts hurled to shatter the mountain of sin stored in the mind of the meditating devotee. One should therefore meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for a long time.

PURPORT

In this verse the position of Lord Çiva is specifically mentioned. The impersonalist suggests that the Absolute Truth has no form and that one can therefore equally imagine the form of Viñëu or Lord Çiva or the goddess Durgä or their son Gaëeça.

But actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the supreme master of everyone. In the Caitanya-caritämåta (Ädi 5.142) it is said, ekale éçvara kåñëa, ara saba bhåtya: the Supreme Lord is Kåñëa, and everyone else, including Lord Çiva and Lord Brahmä—not to mention other demigods—is a servant of Kåñëa.

The same principle is described here. Lord Çiva is important because he is holding on his head the holy Ganges water, which has its origin in the foot-wash of Lord Viñëu.

In the Hari-bhakti-viläsa, by Sanätana Gosvämé, it is said that anyone who puts the Supreme Lord and the demigods, including Lord Çiva and Lord Brahmä, on the same level, at once becomes a päñaëòé, or atheist. We should never consider that the Supreme Lord Viñëu and the demigods are on an equal footing.

Another significant point of this verse is that the mind of the conditioned soul, on account of its association with the material energy from time immemorial, contains heaps of dirt in the form of desires to lord it over material nature. This dirt is like a mountain, but a mountain can be shattered when hit by a thunderbolt.

Meditating on the lotus feet of the Lord acts like a thunderbolt on the mountain of dirt in the mind of the yogé. If a yogé wants to shatter the mountain of dirt in his mind, he should concentrate on the lotus feet of the Lord and not imagine something void or impersonal. Because the dirt has accumulated like a solid mountain, one must meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for quite a long time.

For one who is accustomed to thinking of the lotus feet of the Lord constantly, however, it is a different matter. The devotees are so fixed on the lotus feet of the Lord that they do not think of anything else. Those who practice the yoga system must meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for a long time after following the regulative principles and thereby controlling the senses.

It is specifically mentioned here, bhagavataç caraëäravindam: one has to think of the lotus feet of the Lord. The Mäyävädés imagine that one can think of the lotus feet of Lord Çiva or Lord Brahmä or the goddess Durgä to achieve liberation, but this is not so. Bhagavataù is specifically mentioned. Bhagavataù means “of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viñëu,” and no one else. Another significant phrase in this verse is çivaù çivo ’bhüt.

By his constitutional position, Lord Çiva is always great and auspicious, but since he has accepted on his head the Ganges water, which emanated from the lotus feet of the Lord, he has become even more auspicious and important. The stress is on the lotus feet of the Lord. A relationship with the lotus feet of the Lord can even enhance the importance of Lord Çiva, what to speak of other, ordinary living entities.

.................................................. ....................................

SB 4.19.22 Purport:

. . . Vedic literature states that a person who puts Lord Näräyaëa on the level with Lord Çiva or Lord Brahmä immediately becomes a päkhaëòé. As stated in the Puräëas:

yas tu näräyaëaà devaà

brahma-rudrädi-daivataiù

samatvenaiva vékñeta

sa päñaëòé bhaved dhruvam

In Kali-yuga the päkhaëòés are very prominent. However, Lord Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu has tried to kill all these päkhaëòés by introducing His saìkértana movement. Those who take advantage of this saìkértana movement of the International Society for <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> Consciousness will be able to save themselves from the influence of these päkhaëòés.

.................................................. ....................................

SB 4.19.23 Purport:

. . . In the Vaiñëava Tantra it is said:

yas tu näräyaëaà devaà

brahma-rudrädi-daivataiù

samatvenaiva vékñeta

sa päñaëòé bhaved dhruvam

Although it is forbidden, there are many päñaëòés who coin terms like daridra-näräyaëa and svämi-näräyaëa, although not even such demigods as Brahmä and Çiva can be equal to Näräyaëa.

.................................................. ....................................

SB 4.30.24 Purport:

. . . One should therefore not think that Lord Viñëu is in the same category with Lord Brahmä and Çiva. The çästras forbid us to think in this way.

yas tu näräyaëaà devaà

brahma-rudrädi-daivataiù

samatvenaiva vékñeta

sa päñaëòé bhaved dhruvam

One who considers Lord Viñëu to be in the same category with devas like Lord Brahmä or Lord Çiva or who thinks Lord Brahmä and Çiva to be equal to Lord Viñëu is to be considered as päñaëòé (a faithless nonbeliever). Therefore in this verse Lord Viñëu is distinguished in the words namo viçuddha-sattväya. Although a living entity like us, Lord Brahmä is exalted due to his pious activities; therefore he is given the high post of Brahmä. Lord Çiva is not actually like a living entity, but he is not the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His position is somewhere between Viñëu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Brahmä, the living entity. Lord Çiva is therefore explained in Brahma-saàhitä (5.45) in this way:

kñéraà yathä dadhi vikära-viçeña-yogät

saïjäyate na hi tataù påthag <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">asti</st1:place></st1:City> hetoù

yaù çambhutäm api tathä samupaiti käryäd

govindam ädi-puruñaà tam ahaà bhajämi

Lord Çiva is considered to be like yogurt (dadhi). Yogurt is nothing but transformed milk; nonetheless, yogurt cannot be accepted as milk. Similarly, Lord Çiva holds almost all the powers of Lord Viñëu, and he is also above the qualities of the living entity, but he is not exactly like Viñëu, just as yogurt, although transformed milk, is not exactly like milk.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead is also described herein as väsudeväya kåñëäya. Kåñëa is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all Viñëu expansions are His plenary portions or portions of His plenary portions (known as sväàça and kalä).

SB 11.5.32

kåñëa-varëaà tviñäkåñëaà

säìgopäìgästra-pärñadam

yajïaiù saìkértana-präyair

yajanti hi su-medhasaù

SYNONYMS

kåñëa-varëam—repeating the syllables kåñ-ëa; tviñä—with a luster; akåñëam—not black (golden); sa-aìga—along with associates; upa-aìga—servitors; astra—weapons; pärñadam—confidential companions; yajïaiù—by sacrifice; saìkértana-präyaiù—consisting chiefly of congregational chanting; yajanti—they worship; hi—certainly; su-medhasaù—intelligent persons.

TRANSLATION

In the age of Kali, intelligent persons perform congregational chanting to worship the incarnation of Godhead who constantly sings the names of Kåñëa. Although His complexion is not blackish, He is Kåñëa Himself. He is accompanied by His associates, servants, weapons and confidential companions.

RadheyRadhey108 · July 31, 2008

None of these say that "Lord Shiva is a demigod". Provide a verse that states this.

srikanthdk71 · July 31, 2008

what's next???

Dear Sri, after knowing that, I'll tag the title Mahatma to you also.

I'll give you a hint for this what's next....

Go first of all read the Gita, and then the Bhagvatam....

Everything is there for the mystery concerning what's next...

Mahajan, I am asking you to be Free and you ask me to get stuck again interpreting the book on which Thousands of people have interpreted. I am happy being with myself. Satyameva Jayate..your way or my way.. is it not?

srikanthdk71 · July 31, 2008

Not Originally Posted by srikanthdk71 — but there are Symbolic Parallels with pure sense-gradification [not that there's anything wrong with that]:

Great enjoyer-person,

the frustration never goes and the wanting is always there in married-life,

where as in the divorced or single-life,

the craving for the varieties of Women exists.

When there is search for Women, it should be Absolute Beautiful Women and not Ugly Women.

Divorced Women, handicapped Women, Fat Women, are Ugly Women.

They too are bound by high-maintenance Fees.

.

The Beautiful Women are unbound and infinite.

The choice is yours.

Yes, to surrender to Ugly Women is easy.

But what next?

A true Player will always be restless and in want of more Beautiful Women however he may pretend that he has no deviations in his own lawfully wedded wife.

But when he finds the Beautiful Women for himself, "there is no other way", is what he says.

Ultimately, YOU are the enjoyer.

Bhaktajan,

PS: No offense meant to Ugly males.

Maharaj, Good that you too have a passage to prove the direction of your intellect. The point is simple. You look outside you for answers. I look inside of me. You are confused, I am convinced. Have your own way. Sorry, i do not possess such high intellect as you and i am convinced that I am better off without it.Cheers. Keep Smiling:)

bhaktajan · July 31, 2008

Well, I'm sure he'd have no qualms admitting that he thinks he's the best.

Good News: I am a low-life slovenly doltist lust mongering beastly jackass fool, therefore I am much obliged.

Bad News?: You aspire to be my Protégée, mon ami. Therefore you are distressed?.

srikanthdk71 · August 5, 2008

Dear Bhaktjan Jaan, this is supposed to be an Advaita Vedanta Forum, please display your irrelevent "Cut & Paste" abilities in the ISKCON or General Forums if you cannot debate on Advaita Philosophy.

bhaktajan · August 5, 2008

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 1108986" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>srikanthdk71</TD><TD class=alt1>"Dear Bhaktjan Jaan, this is supposed to be an Advaita Vedanta Forum, please display your irrelevent "Cut & Paste" abilities in the ISKCON or General Forums if you cannot debate on Advaita Philosophy."

"Mahajan, I am asking you to be Free "

" You are confused, I am convinced. Have your own way. Sorry"

"Its great that you and your organisation brainwashes people"

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Who are you?

A bag of pancha-maha-bhutani? Correct?

"this is supposed to be an Advaita Vedanta Forum," --???

Here's some aggregate elements for our edification --This should be in this Thread, yes?

<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"> attachment.php?attachmentid=1786&d=1217942336 </o:lock>

<o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock>

<o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit">PS: Why do you use the word 'DEBATE' --aren't we knowledgable of what each other person is talking about?</o:lock>

<o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock>

<o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit">Are you debating with people who don't know what they are talking about?</o:lock>

<o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock>

<o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit">Are you debating with people who you hope agree with you from the start of the 'DEBATE'?</o:lock>

<o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock>

<o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit">It's all Advaita & the 24 material elements until you read further and further outside the circle of one's own subjective sphere. No?</o:lock>

RadhaMukunda · August 6, 2008

Dude, you need help.

bhaktajan · August 6, 2008

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 1109178" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>RadhaMukunda</TD><TD class=alt1>Dude, you need help.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

This reminds me of the story:

The was a house on fire and a neighbor ran up to it and saw the home owner near the upper story window oblivious to his predicament --so the neighbor thought to himself, 'Dude, you need help'.

Then the neighbor got a lawn chair and a glass of iced tea and proceeded to place his chair at the best vantage point to watch the proceedings.

Later he stated to News Reporters that he wished he 'could have done some thing to help', and that, 'it was a terrific fire'.

Later the neighbor set up his Video recorder to copy his appearence on the nightly News Broadcast talking to the reporter.

The Ironic thing is that this 'neighbor' works as a Newspaper Editor.

The good news is that the Burnt home was owned by a Carpenter.

srikanthdk71 · August 8, 2008

Here's some aggregate elements for our edification --This should be in this Thread, yes?

1. Why do you use the word 'DEBATE' --aren't we knowledgable of what each other person is talking about?

2. Are you debating with people who don't know what they are talking about?

3. Are you debating with people who you hope agree with you from the start of the 'DEBATE'?

4. It's all Advaita & the 24 material elements until you read further and further outside the circle of one's own subjective sphere. No?

1 Ans: We are, but you are not.

2 Ans: You are, but we are not.

3 Ans: Not at all. You dont seem to do that also. You are busy in showing your 'Cut & Paste' abilities.

4 Ans: Advaita speaks about Objective sphere and not the Subjective sphere. Go learn advaita first.

bhaktajan · August 8, 2008

You are refering to your grasp of local dogma.

Vedanta = "Study of th 24 Elements + Guna + The Void + the Soul//Paramatma" ... later come Bhagavan realization, Etc etc etc.

Below is an elementary chart of the basic subjects needed to understand Vedanta. [again, "You are refering to your grasp of local dogma."]

This is the stuff of grand masters. I am quoting grand masters. I am showing you what grand masters have said. I claim to 'only' repeat what grand masters also 'quote'.

It is written, If something is true it will be affirmed by onesown Guru, Sadhus [onesown Guru's contemporaries], and Sastra. [again, "You are refering to your grasp of local dogma."]

The chart below is something I created--I do not take credit for it [i don't own any of the media required to illustrate it to you]--my job with the coposition of this mini-chart is to line-up everything neatly and cleanly, that is all.

attachment.php?attachmentid=1786&d=1217942336

srikanthdk71 · August 11, 2008

IGNORE again

bhaktajan · August 11, 2008

[May this make my wise mentors proud!]

Let me teach you what I have learnt from my many mentors:

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead colSpan=2>Today 02:05 AM</TD></TR><TR title="Post 1109675" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>srikanthdk71</TD><TD class=alt1>IGNORE again</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

srikanthdk71 you must surrender to Krishna devotees immediately.

Surely the heights-of-stupidity are being redefined in your posting.

YOU ARE NOT FOOLING ANY ONE!

Surely the heights-of-your-stupidity will manifest in your life --esp. in the most mundane forms.

TEACH ME YOU BRUTE YAVANA OR FOLLOW YOUR SENIORS!

YOU ARE NOT FOOLING ANY ONE!

THIS THREAD WAS STARTED BY ME --

WHERE'S YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS???

May be you know me in real life? Well here's the truth, I hope you can handle the truth:

I'm not homosexual srikanthdk71!

Sorry. Better luck for you next time, srikanthdk71.

Please be a man and stop and stop riding my coat-tails.

yours in Krishna's service,

SHIVAM AS TU TE srikanthdk71,

Bhaktajan, the man.

Fall from Vaikuntha

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