freedom of religion

[cbrahma]

 

BY: HDG SRILA BHAKTIVINODA THAKUR <CENTER>

HDG Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur </CENTER>

 

 

Jun 14, CANADA (SUN) — "The Bhagavata teaches us that God gives us truth as He gave it to Vyasa: when we earnestly seek for it.

 

Truth is eternal and unexhausted. The soul receives a revelation when anxious for it. The souls of the great thinkers of the bygone ages, who now live spiritually, often approach our inquiring spirit and assist in its development. Thus Vyasa was assisted by Narada and Brahma.

 

Our Shastras, or in other words, books of thought, do not contain all that we could get from the infinite Father.

No book is without its errors.

 

God's revelation is absolute truth, but it is scarcely received and preserved in its natural purity. We have been advised in the 14th Chapter of 11th Skandha of the Bhagavata to believe that truth when revealed is absolute, but it gets the tincture of the nature of the receiver in course of time and is converted into error by continual exchange of hands from age to age. New revelations, therefore, are continually necessary in order to keep truth in its original purity. We are thus warned to be careful in our studies of old authors, however wise they are reputed to be.

 

Here we have full liberty to reject the wrong idea, which is not sanctioned by the peace of conscience. Vyasa was not satisfied with what he collected in the Vedas, arranged in the Puranas and composed in the Mahabharata. The peace of his conscience did not sanction his labors. It told him from within, "No, Vyasa! You cannot rest contented with the erroneous picture of truth which was necessarily presented to you by the sages of bygone days. You must yourself knock at the door of the inexhaustible store of truth from which the former ages drew their wealth. Go, go up to the fountainhead of truth, where no pilgrim meets with disappointment of any kind." Vyasa did it and obtained what he wanted. We have been all advised to do so.

Liberty then is the principle which we must consider as the most valuable gift of God. We must not allow ourselves to be led by those who lived and thought before us. We must think for ourselves and try to get further truths which are still undiscovered. In the Bhagavata we have been advised to take the spirit of the Shastras and not the words. The Bhagavata is therefore a religion of liberty, unmixed truth and absolute love."

 

Bhaktivinode's mood is so different from many Gaudiya-Vaisnava proponents I've encountered from ISKCON, GM and on this forum. It lacks even the slightest strain of dogmatism.

[Bishadi]

 

No book is without its errors.

 

Perfectly stated!

 

 

God's revelation is absolute truth, but it is scarcely received and preserved in its natural purity.

So the rules must comply with nature. Perfect!

 

 

We have been advised in the 14th Chapter of 11th Skandha of the Bhagavata to believe that truth when revealed is absolute, but it gets the tincture of the nature of the receiver in course of time and is converted into error by continual exchange of hands from age to age. New revelations, therefore, are continually necessary in order to keep truth in its original purity. We are thus warned to be careful in our studies of old authors, however wise they are reputed to be.

 

Here we have full liberty to reject the wrong idea, which is not sanctioned by the peace of conscience. Vyasa was not satisfied with what he collected in the Vedas, arranged in the Puranas and composed in the Mahabharata. The peace of his conscience did not sanction his labors. It told him from within, "No, Vyasa! You cannot rest contented with the erroneous picture of truth which was necessarily presented to you by the sages of bygone days. You must yourself knock at the door of the inexhaustible store of truth from which the former ages drew their wealth. Go, go up to the fountainhead of truth, where no pilgrim meets with disappointment of any kind." Vyasa did it and obtained what he wanted. We have been all advised to do so.

Liberty then is the principle which we must consider as the most valuable gift of God. We must not allow ourselves to be led by those who lived and thought before us. We must think for ourselves and try to get further truths which are still undiscovered. In the Bhagavata we have been advised to take the spirit of the Shastras and not the words. The Bhagavata is therefore a religion of liberty, unmixed truth and absolute love."

 

Now that is Godhead.

 

Thank you as this gift offers another set of learning (another guru) to read up on! when truth 'lives' in such pure honesty; it transcends!

[Tirisilex]

Way To go CBrahma... VERY well said!!

[liselina]

When truth resonates clearly we can feel it. I felt it. WOW! What wise and well stated words.

[nikhil kumar varma]

Om Tryambakkam Yajamahe Sugandhim Pustivardhanam Urvarookameva Bandanaan Mrityormoksheeya Maamritaat.

[nikhil kumar varma]

Om Tryambakkam Yajamahe Sugandhim Pustivardhanam Urvarookameva Bandanaan Mrityormoksheeya Maamritaat.

[Amlesh]

Hats off cBrahma.

[Bishadi]

 

Hats off cBrahma.

 

for sharing that the previous teachers reprsentations could not be complete!

 

That is would be impossible!

 

 

When truth resonates clearly we can feel it. I felt it. WOW! What wise and well stated words.

 

 

That knowledge is evolving; we must be honest for the 'good' of life and our children, the future.

 

So a simple question is; are we in the best possible state of existence to offer the maximum amount of data, evidence and words, than ever before in all history?

 

Do you think we as people, within this existence (the total) should be taking off all banners of complacency; to learn and perpare our children, our future, for the new beginning; the truth?

[AncientMariner]

"The Bhagavata is therefore a religion of liberty, unmixed truth and absolute love."

 

That is the way I view the essence of Christianity to be as well unfortunately it does appear that both Chrisianity and Vaisnavism are presently not that inspiring and consist mainly of people of different factions engaged in various different forms of philosophical headbutting etc. and so on. But the essence of both remains the same and as described in above quote and that can be seen by those that want to see it in my opinion.

[krsna]

All Glories to c (C:):)L) brahma!!!

 

 

The Nth Degree Of Spiritual Free Thinking!

 

 

 

We must not allow ourselves to be led by those who lived and thought before us. We

 

must think for ourselves and try to get further truths which are still undiscovered. In the

 

Bhagavata we have been advised to take the spirit of the Shastras and not the words.

 

The Bhagavata is therefore a religion of liberty, unmixed truth and absolute love."

 

 

[Bishadi]

 

We must not allow ourselves to be led by those who lived and thought before us. We

must think for ourselves and try to get further truths which are still undiscovered. In the

 

Bhagavata we have been advised to take the spirit of the Shastras and not the words.

 

 

or in simple words;

believe nothing no matter where you read it or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense.

 

which leads to another teachers representation;

 

 

The path to Peace....

To solve any problem that has never been solved before,

you have to leave the door to the unknown ajar.

(Richard Feynman; Nobel Laureate Physicist).

 

perhaps to combine the knowledge and words shared by these greats will allow each mind to take up the good in learning and sharing of knowledge for something other than the self preservation but to live in the contributions to the future; the life of existence.

 

The pattern is true simply by the experience. Nothing to contest; walk within.

 

[Amlesh]

 

 

 

or in simple words;

believe nothing no matter where you read it or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense.

 

which leads to another teachers representation;

 

 

 

perhaps to combine the knowledge and words shared by these greats will allow each mind to take up the good in learning and sharing of knowledge for something other than the self preservation but to live in the contributions to the future; the life of existence.

 

The pattern is true simply by the experience. Nothing to contest; walk within.

 

 

All your life and many more to come, you'll be jumping like a monkey only. Or rather wait for some time, your theory of evolution will modify you from Cats to monkeys. your way of analizing things are cute for us, but not for you, your approach is never conclusive and I can't say either it is Asymptotic, it is oscillating.

[Bishadi]

 

All your life and many more to come, you'll be jumping like a monkey only. Or rather wait for some time, your theory of evolution will modify you from Cats to monkeys. your way of analizing things are cute for us, but not for you, your approach is never conclusive and I can't say either it is Asymptotic, it is oscillating.

 

 

sounds like you are talking about a religion or how the faithful promote faith.

 

Answers are true by the light of reality. Ignorance is maintained in the cycles of faith.

[bhaktajan]

My dear Bishadi,

 

Sincerely I have affection for strong-minded individuals.

I am glad that you are not lacking in determination to express yourself even when others such as my self argue loudly.

Ultimately I consider myself your servant and so I will bark & howl & jump up and down and trail mud into the room.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

My philosophy letter to Bishadi [please comment]:

 

Nothingness and Something-ness both existed together and sustained each other since time-immemorial, together this is called the material manifestation or the Cosmos.

Something-ness may be found either conscious or in-animated.

The Self: Each conscious Individual, within the cosmos, has as its own address a "Vector Point" [X-Y-Z Axis Intersection]—which is indivisible, individual, eternal, and conscious.

An animated conscious individual may occupy a body [encasement].

This encasement allows the pursuit of its own gratification by way of:

1 Eating,

2 Sleeping,

3 Mating,

4 Defense (Physical, mental, ego).

After the temporal stages of birth, growth, old age and death the vector point retains only the spirit of 'direction toward a **goal'.

Thus by dint of prior cultivated interests, inherits a new body/encasement which accommodates another lifetime for the pursuit of gratification(s) along the same lines of interests that where cultivated during its last life. When this is repeated since time immemorial the sages call this 'samsara' [the cycle of birth and death].

[**the goal is often without guidance thus the 4 pursuits become the ultimate means and end of life's journey to nowhere except repeated gratification. Proper guidance allows us to reconcile, "What in the hell are we doing here?" during a lifetime].

The setting of the above pastimes [of every animated or inanimated individual point] is a large empty space of Nothingness [the sages call this empty space: 'brahman'].

The in-animated elements within the cosmos are of two kinds:

1 gross matter [earth, water, fire, air, either], and,

2 subtle [mind, intelligence, ego].

The mystery of life is the attainment of transcendence.

Some say the attainment of nirvana, or merging with the primordial 'Nothingness' is the goal.

The chain of succession of knowledge that comes to us from Vyasadeva shows us [through dissatisfaction with our own pursuits —life time after life times of gratification in countless species of life— in varying births of different status] that the goal of life is to seek the 'Absolute Truth' not relative truths.

The conclusion of the Vedas and thus the conclusion of Vedanta is the 'Absolute Truth' known as the personage known as Krishna.

Krishna's form assists the minute living entity [conscious Individual Vector Point] at death so as to acquire a next birth that further cultivates Krsna Conscousness till successful completion. Remembering <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comKrishna</st1:place>. We know this 'Absolute Truth' in the same way we know who are real father is: from our mother [except for those who cultivated future disadvatages]. The Vedas are like our mother telling us who are father is etc, etc.

.

Krishna Consciousness is the top most mystic yoga discipline:

Remembering the transcendental name, fame, form, personality, paraphernalia, entourage, and, pastimes of none other than the Supreme Personality of Godhead Bhagavan Sri Krishna, son of Vasudeva, brother of Balarama, cousin of Arjuna, source of Mahavisnu and Narayana, the original-original eternal, all-cognizant, all-blissful form of God in his Transcendent Heaven where every soul pursues reciprocal pastimes with God face to face.

.

Yoga is to re-link with this 'Absolute Truth', thus remembering <st1:place w:st=" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> in the material world is prescribed thus [it is also the easiest]: Chant Krishna's names. Chant the Hare Krishna Maha-Mantra. Read the Bhagavad-gita's Chapter 10 "The Opulence of the Absolute” to learn where to see God's opulence spread through-out the cosmos.

[Kulapavana]

"We must not allow ourselves to be led by those who lived and thought before us. We must think for ourselves and try to get further truths which are still undiscovered. In the Bhagavata we have been advised to take the spirit of the Shastras and not the words. The Bhagavata is therefore a religion of liberty, unmixed truth and absolute love." BVT

 

That is Bhaktivinoda's greatest contribution. Yes, it is OK to question Prabhupada or Bhaktivinoda, and to chart our own course of thought and deed. Anybody who does not accept that is basically enslaved by his own misconceptions of Krsna consciousness.

[Bishadi]

 

My dear Bishadi,

 

Sincerely I have affection for strong-minded individuals.

I am glad that you are not lacking in determination to express yourself even when others such as my self argue loudly.

Ultimately I consider myself your servant and so I will bark & howl & jump up and down and trail mud into the room.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

My philosophy letter to Bishadi [please comment]:

 

Is this dialogue? Or simply a one sided discussion; such that when questions are asked on both sides; each honor the articulation with quality intent?

 

Not interested in a faith based debate. Good exists in all of them. So the root of each discussion is being applied in that each person alive can apply lessons to comprehend. Nothing being written is partial or secular to a faith based observance.

 

My point is; there is no desire to damage but build; either you wish a quality dialogue or not, so before any question is answered, as you request, we must reach equal footing and be of compassionate association or not.

 

That is my freedom of religion

 

Between the insults and overriding in rudeness; seems your responses are not of good intent but defiance to the unknown.

[Bishadi]

 

"We must not allow ourselves to be led by those who lived and thought before us. We must think for ourselves and try to get further truths which are still undiscovered. In the Bhagavata we have been advised to take the spirit of the Shastras and not the words. The Bhagavata is therefore a religion of liberty, unmixed truth and absolute love." BVT

 

That is Bhaktivinoda's greatest contribution. Yes, it is OK to question Prabhupada or Bhaktivinoda, and to chart our own course of thought and deed. Anybody who does not accept that is basically enslaved by his own misconceptions of Krsna consciousness.

 

Now that is LOVE

[bhaktajan]

This is not dialogue!

Simply a one sided discussion.

Such as when questions are asked and both sides honorable articulate quality intent!

Not interested in a faith based debate?

Good exists in all lessons to comprehend faith based observances.

My point is quality dialogue or not, so as you request, we must be compassionate or not.

That is my freedom of religion.

Between insults and rudeness; your responses are not of good intent but defiance.

Sound familiar?

Bhaktajan

[Bishadi]

 

Nothingness and Something-ness both existed together and sustained each other since time-immemorial, together this is called the material manifestation or the Cosmos.

So a child is born and opens his eyes. He sees and is beginning to focus in observations, but words are still just blah blah blah.

Ooops, it’s warm… and wet… I will cry (but I am a baby that does not know the word ‘cry’ but is making sounds for comfort just the same)

The Mother’s heart beat sooths during feeding; where am I? Not sure but in that comfortable place.

Something-ness may be found either conscious or in-animated.

While looking through the cell of this crib; I see ‘out there’ but what is it? One day I will get out.

Then the wheels start working; walking and moving fast but them words are still blah blah blah even when I run into the coffee table and land on my diappered butt.

 

The Self: Each conscious Individual, within the cosmos, has as its own address a "Vector Point" [X-Y-Z Axis Intersection]—which is indivisible, individual, eternal, and conscious.

The sound they call me, Junior. That must be who I am, and that is Momma, the other guy, with the deep voice and soft eyes, I can’t quite make it out but I love to run… gotta go…..

An animated conscious individual may occupy a body [encasement].

This encasement allows the pursuit of its own gratification by way of:

1 Eating,

2 Sleeping,

3 Mating,

4 Defense (Physical, mental, ego).

Still don’t comprehend all them sounds but “No” means don’t or stop and Dadda is now my new favorite friend when not eating. He shows me things and makes new words as I see what he is pointing at.

 

After the temporal stages of birth, growth, old age and death the vector point retains only the spirit of 'direction toward a **goal'.

I saw a tree, when the big door was opened, I saw this real tall thing with big arms and wiggly little leaves (one day I wish to climb that big thing and know what the words are to describe it)

Thus by dint of prior cultivated interests, inherits a new body/encasement which accommodates another lifetime for the pursuit of gratification(s) along the same lines of interests that where cultivated during its last life. When this is repeated since time immemorial the sages call this 'samsara' [the cycle of birth and death].

Never knew so many other little people existed. RING,RING,RING ‘come on, that’s the bell, we need to go inside the classroom’ is what I heard. The first day in school and all these other little people are gathering to listen to a ‘teacher’. Perhaps this is why I am here at this location away from my home, in this surrounding of big buildings and tall chairs, to learn about things I never even seen.

**the goal is often without guidance thus the 4 pursuits become the ultimate means and end of life's journey to nowhere except repeated gratification. Proper guidance allows us to reconcile, "What in the hell are we doing here?" during a lifetime]. [/quote] ‘I was a junior too, why not name him after my father?’ was my plea to my better half even though she was in labor for 30 minutes, “my father send me to the greatest schools, taught me lessons of appreciation, may I honor may father with his name as I promised him I will give his grandson, the time and Love he gave me as he did his father and his father and his father”

 

“ Thank you son, since my back is out, I appreciate you caring for the lawn and allowing your mother to rest. You’ve grown into a fine compassionate man. How is that new field of work in biology coming? Fine Pop, they can now recognize germs and the interactions of mass within the human body. The company is geared with the intention of curing cancers, alzheimers and even diabetes and malaria. Great son, glad to see that education is available as it was not in our time; maybe by the time your children are old, they will comprehend how ‘life itself’ actually works.”

 

“Isn’t it wonderful to be alive dear?” “Yes, we have 3 fine grandchildren, even another junior who can handle his studies, his field and duties for the community within his days of each waking moment. Do you remember when planting took 20 hours in a day and now with the new methods of planting as well as the understanding of seasons and conserving, far more can be accomplished in the same period?”

“Sure wish my father did not have to work so hard in his day, to where now they teach the collective of knowledge is the shortest period and offering each child born to plant more crops, of better quality and truly within the confines of nature all because of recorded knowledge shared amongst the world.”

Can you see how much can be achieved with compassionate associations?

A cycle of life is such to be born into this world.

 

How about this being a religion; understanding life?

[bhaktajan]

thank you.

 

Now my mind will be engaged in "comparative studies."

 

A cook looks forward to the diner's reception of the food prep.

 

It's like sweets.

 

Now I'll have to read your comments with attention.

 

Thank you.

 

I'm writting this before I read what you've posted.

 

Wish me luck and sedation,

Bhaktajan

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just peeked at some of your responses --and I'm giddy all over.

You see I like criticism and honest fault finding vs. flattery and false-candor.

 

I have had the association of both goody-two-shoes mama's girls [yet, my cousin Lali --she is so really soft spoken, yet she's been in the army over 20 years] & home-boy criminals and both are essentially phony posers.

 

So my style is based on "You want to rob me; so I will bless you before you know I've gone."

 

Now I shall read your comments so as to educate myself as to how to . . .

[Bishadi]

 

thank you.

 

Now my mind will be engaged in "comparative studies."

 

A cook looks forward to the diner's reception of the food prep.

 

It's like sweets.

 

Now I'll have to read your comments with attention.

 

Thank you.

 

I'm writting this before I read what you've posted.

 

Wish me luck and sedation,

Bhaktajan

 

at least sedation can assist 'your self' with what you want; let some thinking evolve a bit without

[krsna]

From Moses to Mahaprabhu

 

By Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

If the reader carefully considers, it will be found that the spiritual science gradually evolved from ancient times and became more simple, more clear and more condensed. The more impurities arising from time and place are removed, the more the beauties of the spiritual science brightly shine before us.

 

This spiritual science took birth in the land of kusha grass on the banks of the Sarasvati river in Brahmavarta. As it gradually gained strength, this spiritual science spent its childhood in the abode of Badarikashram, which is covered with snow. It spent its boyhood in Naimisharanya on the banks of the Gomati river and its youth on the beautiful banks of the Kaveri river in the province of Dravida. The spiritual science ayyained maturity in Navadvip, on the banks of the Ganges, which purifies the universe.

By studying the history of the world, it is found that the spiritual science reached its peak in Navadvip.

 

The Supreme Absolute Truth is the only object of love for the living entities. Unless one worhips Him with attachment, however, the living entity can never attain Him. Even if a person gives up all affection for this world and thinks of the Supreme Lord, He is still not easily achieved. He is controlled and attained by transcendental mellows alone. These mellows are of five types - shanta, dasya, sakya, vatsalya and madhurya

The first mellow, shanta, is the stage in which the living entity surpasses the pains of material existence and situates himself in transcendence. In that state there is a little happiness, but no feeling of independence. At that time the relationship between the practitioner and the Lord is not yet established.

Dasya rasa is the second mellow. It contains all the ingradients of shanta rasa as well as affection. "The Lord is my master, and I am His eternal servant". This type of relationship is found in dasya rasa. No one cares much for any of the best things of this world unless they are connected with affection. Therefore dasya rasa is superior to shanta rasa in many ways.

Sakya is superior to dasya. In dasya rasa there is a thorn in the form of awe and reverence, but the main ornament in sakya rasa is the feeling of friendship in equality. Among the servants, one who is a friend is superior. There is no doubt about it. In sakya rasa all the wealth of shanta and dasya is included

It is easy to understand that vatsalya is superior to sakya. A son gives more affection and happiness than any friend. Therefore in vatsalya rasa we find the wealth of four rasas. Although vatsalya rasa is superior to these other rasas, it appears insgnificant before madhurya rasa. There may be many secrets unknown between father and son, but this not the case between husband and wife. Therefore, if we deeply consider, it will be seen that all the above-mentioned rasas attain perfection within madhurya rasa.

If we go through the histories of these five rasas, it is clearly understood that shanta rasa was seen in the beginning days of India. When the soul was not satisfied after performing sacrifices with material ingredients, then transcendentalists like Sanaka, Sanatana, Sanat-kumara, Sananda, Narada and Lord Shiva all became detached from the material world, situated in transcendence and realized shanta rasa.

Much later, dasya rasa manifested in Hanuman, the servant of Sri Ramachandra. That same dasya rasa gradually expanded in the northwest and manifested in a great personality named Moses.

In the age of Dvapara, Uddhava and Arjuna became the qualified authorities of sakya rasa. They preached this rasa throughout the world. Gradually tha rasa expanded up to the Arabian countries and touched the heart of Mohammed, the knower of religious principles.

Vatsalya rasa manifested throughout India in different forms at different times. Among the different forms, vatsalya mixed with opulence crossed India and appeared in a great personality named Jesus Christ, who was a preacher of Jewish religious principles.

Madhurya rasa first shone brightly in Braj. It is extremely rare for this rasa to enter the hearts of conditioned souls, because this rasa tends to remain with qualified, pur eliving entities. This confidential rasa was preached by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the moon of Navadvipa, along with His followers.

Till now, this rasa has not crossed beyond India. Recently a scholar from England named Newman realized something about this rasa and wrote a book about it. The people of Europe and America have not been satisfied with vatsalya rasa mixed with opulence as preached by Jesus Christ. I hope, by the grace of the Lord, in a very short time they will become attached to drinking the intoxicating nectar of madhurya rasa.

It has been seen tha any rasa that appears in India eventually spreads to the western countries, therefore madhurya rasa will soon be preached throughout the world. Just as the sun rises first in India and gradually spreads its lights to the West, the matchless splendor of spiritual truth appears first in India and gradually spreads to the Western countries.

[krsna]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FROM SRILA BHAKTIVINODE THAKURA:

 

"As long as people try to approach Krishna with pride of material knowledge, Krishna will remain far from their reach, but when people call out to Krishna with a humble heart, they will see Krishna and experience the Lord’s unlimited bliss.

 

With the appearance of genuine faith they lose their material pride and offensive nature.

There is no room for caste, birthright, material knowledge, beauty, power, influence of material science, position, wealth, or kingdom in cultivating Krishna Consciousness.

For this reason, understanding of Krishna remains far away from those who are proud of their material status.

 

It is easy to understand then why Krishna is disregarded in the modern world.":pray:

[Bishadi]

"A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind's demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world." Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has stated, upaśamāśrayaḿ krodha-lobhādy-avaśī-bhūtam: a bona fide spiritual master cannot be under the control of ordinary anger, greed and lust.'