BBT turns down GBC recommendation, will not add explanations to Prabhupada's books

[krsna]

BBT turns down GBC recommendation, will not add "explanations" to Prabhupada's books

 

 

Submitted by jswami on June 19, 2008 - 11:35pm.

• About editing

Today the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust released this statement.

The ISKCON Governing Body Commission has recommended to the BBT trustees that we insert endnotes or appendices into Srila Prabhupada’s books to explain statements Srila Prabhupada makes in Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.25.41, 4.25.42, and 4.26.26 concerning a woman’s attitude towards the aggressive advances of a man and towards a man who is “expert at rape.” The GBC has also recommended that the endnotes or appendices explain “other such statements.”

The BBT directors, at their annual meeting in June of 2008, considered these recommendations and decided to turn them down.

The directors have in fact discussed the relevant issues at length during several BBT meetings over the past few years. We have listened to opinions from concerned devotees and nondevotees. And additionally we have sought and received written advice on these issues from a selection of senior devotees, both male and female.

The directors have considered several suggested approaches to the issues, including deleting or revising the controversial passages, adding footnotes, adding appendices, publishing free-standing explanatory inserts, publishing separate books of commentary, and doing nothing at all.

As a result of our deliberations, we decided that the best approach would be to set up a site on the web where readers can go to get a better understanding of statements from Srila Prabhupada’s books that may be controversial, contrary to prevailing social norms, or otherwise difficult to comprehend or digest.

As we reprint Srila Prabhupada’s books, we plan to include on the copyright page a brief note directing readers to that site for guidance on such matters. This web site was already in development long before the meeting at which the GBC passed their resolution.

Addressing these issues on a website offers the following advantages, among others:

 

• It allows us to include explanations from several different viewpoints, not just one.
  
• It gives the authors space to write at whatever length they feel they need.
  
• It keeps Srila Prabhupada’s books free from editorial intrusions.
  
• It avoids needlessly highlighting statements that many readers may not find disturbing.
  
• It spares us from having to publish “official explanations” for statements about which even Srila Prabhupada’s leading disciples and followers have divided opinions.
  
• It saves us from the danger of publishing in Srila Prabhupada’s books an explanation with which he himself might disagree.
  
• It keeps us from embarking on the treacherous path of “explaining” more and more of Srila Prabhupada’s controversial or potentially controversial statements.

We foresee that Srila Prabhupada’s followers will eventually write many books of commentary to directly explain and elaborate upon the teachings found in his books, and we welcome this. We see the website as an initial step in that direction.

In this letter we also wish to respond to the specifics of the GBC’s recommendation.

The GBC’s resolution gives three reasons for their recommendation. Two are these:

 

• “Some of Srila Prabhupada’s books contain sentences [like those cited] which when taken in isolation may be considered derogatory to and offensive against women.”
  
• “Some people who read such statements may consider them to be derogatory or offensive, may misunderstand what Srila Prabhupada actually means, and may not want to further read those books, notwithstanding the many other beneficial statements in them.”

Regarding these two reasons, we recognize that Srila Prabhupada’s books sometimes make statements that some readers may consider offensive—offensive to women, to science and scientists, to democratic ideals, to other Gaudiya Vaisnavas, to scholarship and scholars, to homosexuals, to pacifists, humanitarians and philanthropists, to people of various nations or races, to followers of various spiritual or supposedly spiritual paths, to individuals widely revered as saints or incarnations of God, and much more. And we recognize that such statements may discourage some readers from reading further.

Nonetheless, we think that adding notes or appendices to explain what Srila Prabhupada intended would be unwise, and potentially disastrous, especially if the purpose of the explanation were to soften the impact of Srila Prabhupada’s words, to explain that he “didn’t really mean” what he appears to have said—that is, not just to explain but to “explain away.”

The GBC’s remaining reason is this: “Some ISKCON devotees may have used these statements out of context as an excuse to offend, neglect and abuse women.”

We agree that this is true. But we believe that providing guidance and instruction on such matters is the responsibility of the GBC and ISKCON’s leaders, not the BBT or its editors. And we believe that Srila Prabhupada’s books are the wrong place for his followers to insert corrective guidance on morals, ethics, or proper attitudes and behavior. We think that annotating Srila Prabhupada’s books to keep ISKCON devotees from going off track is simply a bad idea.

We are concerned, also, that the GBC has asked us to insert endnotes or appendices to explain not only the statements they quoted but also “other such statements as determined by the BBT.” That is not a road we think it wise for us to set off on. Once we get started, where does it end?

In conclusion: We do not intend to add anything to Srila Prabhupada’s books, or subtract anything, or change anything Srila Prabhupada says, to make his controversial or potentially controversial statements more acceptable to readers or less vulnerable to misuse by ISKCON devotees. We believe that this would be unwise, contrary to our prescribed duties, and potentially disastrous. We also strongly urge whoever our successors may be to preserve Srila Prabhupada’s books intact and reject all proposals, however well intentioned, for softening the impact of his words.

[krsna]

Deus Ex Machina

A deus ex machina (Latin IPA: de:us eks ma:khina (literally "god out of a machine") is an improbable contrivance in a story. The phrase describes an artificial, or improbable, character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot (such as an angel suddenly appearing to solve problems, or the entire story having been just a dream one of the characters was having).

 

Wikipedia

 

After hundreds of devotees have signed an online petition against GBC Resoluton 311, including many senior devotees and disciples of Srila Prabhupada, and the issue became a hot topic on several devotees' blogs, the directors of the BBT decided to keep Srila Prabhupada's books as they are and not to add footnotes or annotations, or change them in any way to make them more palatable to today's educated audiences.

[jschwartz]

I thi

[suchandra]

 

I thi

 

Srila Prabhupada said -- "after I am gone you probably will not print my books, I need to see them printed while I am still here."

 

That way there would be millions of originals in circulation so when they changed the books, the originals would still exist.

[JayaPrabhupada]

What is the good news is that both the footnotes and BBT comments already exist. They are published a while back at hbbt.info

[stonehearted]

 

Srila Prabhupada said -- "after I am gone you probably will not print my books, I need to see them printed while I am still here."

 

Whoa! I've never heard this one before, or anything like it, and I've been around a while. Now, you put these words in quotation marks, which means that you assert he spoke these exact words. My guess it that you're really paraphrasing something. I did a VedaBase search and got 0 hits. I know that the VedaBase, the "Complete" mp3 collection, etc. are, even all together, not complete. Can you tell us where and when Srila Prabhupada is supposed to have said this? It may also help if you were to share your source with us.

[stonehearted]

I guess I want to bump this, so Sucandra can tell us where this idea comes from.

[suchandra]

 

I guess I want to bump this, so Suchandra can tell us where this idea comes from.

"This is the business of the disciple, how to glorify the spiritual master, paramparā. I glorify my spiritual master, you glorify your spiritual master. If we simply do that, glorify, then Krsna is glorified. That was the decision of Nityānanda Prabhu, that “Why not deliver these fallen souls first?” Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s incarnation is to deliver the fallen souls. And in… And there is no scarcity of fallen souls in this age."

Srimad-Bhāgavatam 1.5.23

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Vrndāvana, August 4, 1974

 

Thanks Stonehearted, yes this is the only business of a bona fide disciple to always put the bona fide acarya into right perspective and since your whole family ("we") is doing that so much the better.

Especially at times when Prabhupada is often seen as someone having empowered unqualified neophytes who simply caused disturbance. But this is not bumped by anyone:

 

Kulapavana: "The point is that Prabhupada knew about the corruption in his movement, saw it as inevitable given the fallen nature of his disciples, and tried to use it in Krsna's service."

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/447612-prabhupadas-way-highway-5.html#post1102767

Kulapavana: "You do not think Prabhupada cheapened sannyasa by giving it freely to unqualified people? It was not relativism? He wanted them to preach so he facilitated their overblown egos."

 

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/447612-prabhupadas-way-highway-5.html#post1102748

 

What is not so often mentioned that at that time in the Western hemisphere 108 Sankirtan vans were daily delivering transcendental literature to 100,000 people thus giving so many conditioned souls the opportunity to directly connect to our parampara. In this way millions of books where distributed in a very short span of time.

Whereas today 2008 - all these Sankirtan vans - at least all over Europe - are disposed - no more Sankirtan devotees who distribute transcendental literature and thereby engage people in KC, the essence of human life.

In German speaking countries no more reprint of Caitanya Caritamrita since 20 years.

Greece, Benelux, Italy, Spain, France, Scandinavia in similar situation.

 

"After I am gone you probably will not print my books, I need to see them printed while I am still here."

Thats what Prabhupada said when visiting our temple in 1974. He said it exactly that way. But you're right, so many quotes by Prabhupada seem to be lost and not properly documented. Therefore good point to say, "I want to bump this".

[stonehearted]

 

"After I am gone you probably will not print my books, I need to see them printed while I am still here."

Thats what Prabhupada said when visiting our temple in 1974. He said it exactly that way. But you're right, so many quotes by Prabhupada seem to be lost and not properly documented. Therefore good point to say, "I want to bump this".

Which temple? Did he say this in public? I have to say, I've been around ISKCON since 1969, and I've never heard this one before.

[suchandra]

 

Which temple? Did he say this in public? I have to say, I've been around ISKCON since 1969, and I've never heard this one before.

Since 1969 doesn't mean much. Who're you to know everything what Prabhupada said? Did you ever hear that Prabhupada's movement distributed 1977 every single day more than 100,000 big books? Did you hear that all over Europe there're today 2008 no more Sankirtan vans?

Did you know that all over Europe, 500 mio people, there was no more reprint of Caitanya Caritamrita in the local languages after 1988?

If your answer is three times yes, then what the heck are you doubting, mistrusting, challenging and are so very astonished when Prabhupada predicted above?

 

"After I am gone you probably will not print my books, I need to see them printed while I am still here."

Srila Prabhupada Quote Of The Day

 

Sa vai manah krsna-padaravindayor vacamsi vaikuntha-gunanuvarnane [sB 9.4.18]. You engage your senses. So this is practice. First of all think of the Deity. First of all think of the lotus feet, then the knees, then the eyes, then the belly, then the chest.

 

In this way, as you become practiced, then go further, advance. In this way, when you become fully practiced, then automatically, in whatever condition you are, you will be able to meditate upon Krsna. That is the highest perfection of life. Satatam kirtayanto mam [bg. 9.14]. Satatam cintayanto mam. If you always think of Krsna, always chant... Chanting is also meditation.

 

 

 

As soon as you chant, you immediately remember Krsna, His form, His name, His quality, His pastimes. So where is difficulty? The Gosvamis practiced it.

 

 

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.28.19

Nairobi, October 29, 1975

 

[stonehearted]

 

Since 1969 doesn't mean much. Who're you to know everything what Prabhupada said?

 

Jeez--pardon me! I just asked. I've never even hinted that I've heard everything; however, this is rather a startling quotation, and I'm surprised that it hasn't gotten around, even among ISKCON critics, hasn't showed up on any grouchy Web sites yet.

 

And your efforts to put me down seem to have distracted you from answering my direct question: at which temple did he make this statement?

 

Since you're unlikely to answer that question, I guess I'll take the hint and try not to bother you anymore.

[suchandra]

 

J I've never even hinted that I've heard everything;

Could be that you also never heard about the existence of Norway; Switzerland; Dutch; Denmark; Poland; Czech Republic; Slovakia; Slovenia; Kroatia; Serbia; Bulgaria; Romania; Sweden; Netherlands; Germany; France; Finland; Lithuania; Greece; Belgium; Austria; Italy; Spain; Portugal; Luxembourg; Liechtenstein; Estonia; Monaco?

 

As said before all these nations have not received reprinted translations in local languages of Prabhupada's books since 20 years and today bookdistribution even stopped altogether. This is not only Caitanya-Caritamrita but also:

 

* Teachings of Lord Caitanya

* Nectar of Devotion

* Nectar of Instruction

* Easy Journey to Other Planets

* KRSNA, The Supreme Personality of Godhead

* Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers

* Teachings of Lord Kapila, the Son of Devahuti

* Teachings of Queen Kunti

* Krsna, the Reservoir of Pleasure

* Science of Self Realization

* Path of Perfection

* Life Comes from Life

* The Perfection of Yoga

* Beyond Birth and Death

* Raja-Vidya: The King of Knowledge

* Krsna Consciousness, The Matchless Gift

* Sri Isopanisad

* Transcendental Teachings of Prahlada Maharaja

 

Since you don't find fault about this situation of having Prabhupada's books not anymore reprinted and distributed for 500 mio people in the European Union we assume that this is anyway of no interest for people like you.

[stonehearted]

Who said I find no fault in this? That's a bit of a reach, considering I've already expressed my alarm in a couple of different ways. Sometimes, Suchandra, you seem even crabbier than I. And you seem to have a real problem with me, for some reason. Kind of strange, since you don't know me at all. Sorry to have disturbed you so.

[Kulapavana]

 

"After I am gone you probably will not print my books, I need to see them printed while I am still here."

 

Thats what Prabhupada said when visiting our temple in 1974. He said it exactly that way.

 

Have you heard this directly from Prabhupada? And who was he speaking to? It must have been in Schloss Rettershof.

http://www.prabhupada.de/rettershof.htm

[suchandra]

 

..this is rather a startling quotation.....

It should be clear that whenever the league/camp of academic critics/opponents of Prabhupada's teachings are getting really excited to know about the authenticity of a "Prabhupada said", they don't want to actually glorify Prabhupada but the opposite, to concoct a plan for the opposite, to isolate, twist, construe something harmful to discredit Prabhupada's lifework. Just like one prominent leader once said, yes, it is fact, Prabhupada told me to be his successor and become the next acarya. Short time later when people were going against him, he all off a sudden said, no, Prabhupada never told me to sit on the vyasasana, I did the greatest disserve for the mission of our guru. Interpreting Prabhupada's words seems a big topic what still is not actually solved.

 

Tamal Krsna Goswami: Actually, Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He didn't appoint eleven gurus. He appointed eleven ritviks. He never appointed them gurus. Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus.

 

TKG called for an open discussion at Nrsinghananda's Pyramid House in Topanga Canyon, CA.

[Vedesu]

Prabhupada: I never said that.

 

http://www.hknet.org.nz/SP-INeverSaidThat.html

 

75-09-02.Omk Letter: Omkara

Please accept my blessings. I have seen your letter dated August 17, 1975 and have noted the contents. I never said there should be no more marriage. By all means legally you can get married. How can I object? They misunderstand me. Unless it is there from me in writing, there are so many things that "Prabhupada said."

 

I was expecting, or at least hoping to see an apology from the author of the post above for his extremely rude and seethingly hateful replies to Stonehearted, but unfortunately, I was disappointed to witness yet more venom spewing from this ritvik spammer. He was asked for a simple reference to a "Prabhupada said" but was unable or unwilling to provide one, and when he felt (wrongfully) that his authority was supposedly challenged, he reacted in a way which is not exemplary from one who wants to be known as a Vaishnava.

[krsna]

 

 

 

BBT Ki Jai!!!

 

[Kulapavana]

 

Just like one prominent leader once said, yes, it is fact, Prabhupada told me to be his successor and become the next acarya. Short time later when people were going against him, he all off a sudden said, no, Prabhupada never told me to sit on the vyasasana, I did the greatest disserve for the mission of our guru.

 

If he lied once, why do you think he was telling the truth the second time?

 

Is the ritvik system described anywhere in Prabhupada's writings? No. Neither is it part of our previous GV tradition followed by previous acharyas. So it must be a concoction of his disciples.

[suchandra]

 

yet more venom spewing from this ritvik spammer....

So far best answer! In case of not giving proper reference to immediately stop a discussion, to nip something in the bud so to speak - however tricky it might be staged.

Ritvik/non-ritvik disput seems this problem is solved since disciples cannot bloop into maya anymore presenting the excuse that their guru fell down. They have been enlightened to full capacity about that scenario of a fallen guru and can be immediately engaged in further pure devotional service to serve the cause of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan Mission.

Because what bigger loss is there in God's creation than to lose new devotees who surrendered to the path of realizing their eternal relationship with Krishna but due to lack of incompetent leadership fall back into samsara? Is there actually something worse? Finaly this debate evolved and this terrible ritvik vs non-ritvik debate is being overcome.

[suchandra]

 

If he lied once, why do you think he was telling the truth the second time?

 

 

 

Good point, the answer to that question will probably never be revealed for all times.