Can One's NAVAMSA be a BIRTH CHART of other?

[Raj_an]

Hi all renowed astrologers,

 

I have a general doubt.Please clarify

 

Can ones birth chart will resemble same a some others Navamsa chart or dasamsa chart? Is it possible.

 

In how many Hours,days, months and years does the planets placement from a birthchart differ from a navamsa chart/dasamsa chart!

 

 

Thank you,

Rajan

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Rajan,

That is a interesting question.

 

Technically no divisional charts , otherthan the rasi chart (D1) is the realistic chart of the planets as they are in the sky. In some cases even imposible positions occur in some of the divisional charts. For example, we know that , in the real positioning of planets, represented by the rasi chart, Rahu and Ketu always are always at 180 degrees to one another ( occupoying the opposite houses) and can never be together. But in some of the divisional chart it is quite possible that Rahu and Ketu are together in a sign. Hora (D2) , Shodasamsa(D16), Vimsamsa (D20), Chaturvimdamsa (D24), Trimshamsa(d30) , Khavedamsa, Akshvedamsa are examples for this. ( I have taken these example divisional chart from my own horoscopic divisional charts. In other divisional charts also this imposible combination is quite possible).

 

Similarly other impossible combinations of planets can also be noticed in all divisional charts (except in D-1 ) . For example in the real shy, Sun and Mercury can never be far away moved more than 2 signs. ( as Mercury is closest planet to the sun). But you can easily see cases of navamsa chart( and other divisional charts too) that this is no more the case and sun and mercury are far distanced in many signes away- in fact sun and mercury could be anywhere independly. (Similarly Venus and sun positioning is another case to be considered, as venus is also close to sun )

 

All these anomalies happen in divisional charts because divisoional charts are not representing the real positions of the actual celestrial bodioes . They are fictious charts calculated with certain mathetical rules. And these rules do not prevent in generating imposible combinations and positions.

 

Hence the question of one's navamsa chart ( or any other divisional chart) being another's real rasi chart does not arrise. One could have imposible novamsa chart that can never hapen in the real sky.

 

Hovever it is possible that, few cases the navamsa turns out be a very normal possible confugration corresponding to some real confugaration . That is, the fictious chart of novamsa can , once in a while turnout to be the representation of some real sky (of some time ). In that case the navamsa of one can be the natal chart of another.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[U.Sanjeeva Rao]

Never it happens

[Raj_an]

Thank you Ravindran Ji and USR ji for your clarification,

 

Always an Identification or prediction is made based on an unique criteria(Like Fingerprint analysis or palm lines or foot lines or rekhas). So everywhere an indentity is created on UNiqueness. So uniqueness shines better than a common one.

 

But here more than one person born(male, female or combination of both) in a same time, date and country(in a particular location), or ina case of Twins , thrins etc., Will have a same birth chart and Divisional chart. Where does the uniqueness comes in this case. Does it mean the prediction for one is same as the other and ONLY the environment/their karma makes the Uniqueness?

 

Thank you,

Rajan

[U.Sanjeeva Rao]

Dear Rajan,

your curiosity is quite appreciable.

Twins are born with time gaps. Here Divisional Charts vary and can be used to know the differences in the destiny of them.

No horoscope is independent.The chid's fate can be seen in parents horoscopes.Similarly parents life,wealth etc can be seen in the child's chart.If you see all this dependancy everybody is unique in this world.

 

USR

[Raj_an]

Dear USR ji,

 

As per your view. In this world whatever We do is dependent on our parents , grand parents etc., horoscope and their karmas. And "No lives in this world is independent as that of horoscopes too" ...

 

So how come a girl or boy from different regions in certain Scenario making a decision to live together or in cultured manner called as marriage, So that each others horoscope will effect one another.

 

If it does mean that who are living with us and their vibrations and thoughts will produce an impact on us. So why alone marriage is taken in to consultation.Why not we much bothered about other cases such as frens,relatives living with us?

In certain cases husband and wife after marriage are not even living together. any one of them are in overseas and other in native.In that case also will their good and bad deeds of each other will effect each other?

 

Thank you,

Rajan

[U.Sanjeeva Rao]

My dear Rajan,

 

Your Q looks simple,but difficult to answer.Other pandits in this forum can give their opinion.

 

USR

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Rajan

Astrology is based on the theory of determinism.

Everything in the universe is determined. For example, assume that a paper on your table moves now. According to the theory of determionism, it didnot happen accidently, (the paper has no free will). There is a cause to it. It moved because there was a wind flowing through your window. The wind caused the papper to move. Now why did the wind blew? It did not happen accidently.( The wind has no free will either) The pressure at some place far-away changed and caused the wind flow. But why did the presure changed? Not accidently. The temprature at that place changed causing the pressure change. Anw why the temprature.....etc etc. You get the idea of determinism? Everything in the universe is determined. If you know some cause in the causal chain of events, you can predict the entire sequence of events and ultimately arrive at the event in question. that is, if you know accurately the temprature change that occured at a past time particular place, far away from your present office, and if you have information of all the objects - trees, buildings etc - between this place and your office, you could calculate the wind force and direction at the source and what would happen to it at its passage to your office, how much force it would retain and in which direction and when will it arrive to your office. There by you could predict in which direction and howmuch your paper would move, much in advance.

 

This is the essence of the theory of determinism and is the bases of physical sciences. Every thing in the universe is casually comnnected. Nothing is free to do what it wants to do. (Nothing has free will and choice) There is no free event. Events are law bound and predictable because of this determinism.

 

Astrology too is based on the seme scientific concept of determinism applied to human life events. Human life events dont happen out of free choice. There is no such free choice Everything is determined by the causal chain of karma. Hence your assumption, that somebody freely choosen their wife or husband is not astrologically tenable. Who will choose whome - like every other matter -is already predetermined. This is the basis of astrology Otherwise prediction is not possible.

 

Every relationship is equally important from a nutral; scientific point. Parrents, coborn, friends, Wife , children, boss- in fact all people one comeaccross in ones life in whichever capacity- are all determined. It is not the case only husband and wife are related deterministically and hence their hooroscopes influence eachother. Every thing in ones life is ineterconnected by the theory of determinism and nothing happen loosly, freely, or by accident or chance. However it so happens that we are more concerned about our spouse and parents and children more then our distant relative and friends and strangers. This special emotional concern makes us value and explore these relations more and seek astrologers help in divining about these relatives. We dont normally seek astrologer's help regarding the strangers we meet or even about our friends. As a result , astrologers of all ages have perfected the prediction techniques around these issues which human being value. This is how wife's horoscope or parents

horoscope or childrens horoscope appears to have influence on our own horoscope. It is just an apparant phenominon due to our subjective importance to these issues. Astrologically, everything is linked , and can be predicted, provided you have interested in knowing them. (For example it is a routine matter in astrology to check the buisness partners horoscope just like marrage matching).

 

Your assumption that some choices are indipendant and free is not tenable astrologically. If it were so astrology is not possicle.

 

Your question of uniqueness of individuals is also problamatic scientifically. If every body is so unique, if every event is so unique, then generalization of any sort is not possible. Science works not with uniqueness but with generality. Astrology is no exception to this. Let me explain. If water found in different places are different and unique we will not be able to come ourt with the scientific formula, of H2 O. By this formula we meen, irrespecticve of which part of world we take water as our sample , irrespective of which drop of water we investigate water will turnout to be made up of two hydrogen and one oxygen molecule. All laws of science are of this nature they are generalizations. Science deals with generality not uniqueness.

Astrology as a science deals with general rules. - (All those born in Aris will be so and so Tauras will be so and so ...ect.) There are only 12 zodic signs and nine planets. and hence how many unique permutation this system permits is finate - though this number is very large. Thus every body born in the world at ant time will have only one of these repetable charts. And any two people with the same chart in every respect- in rasi, hora, navamsa and so on, will end up having same pattern of life.

 

If this was not the case if everybody is completely unique, astrology is not possible as no generalization could be made about anybody of anything.

 

To sumup, Individualls are neither that unique nor free - there is no free choice as your question assumes. The uniqueness that we come accross is a case of a huge number of possible general typologies. Astrology is based on these premises otherwise astrology is not possible.

 

Your puzzle over astrology arises out of violation of two assumptions of astrology - and any science for that matter. Once you assume free will (or free choice) or extreem uniqueness to each individuals, then of couerse no predictiobn is possible isint it? This is true for any science. Determinism ( that is no free will) and fixed and finate number of typologies ( that is no infinate varities of things) are the charateristics of all sciences. Physics, chemistry, biology and astrology all operate with these assumption. In physics there are only few fundamental forces and few particles that account for all that happen in the universe. In chemister there are only 100 and odd elements that account for all substances. In botony there are only finate number of plant classification. Given the type we can predict their property that is quite fixed and determined. This princiople is the same in astrology.All the people ever came and yet to come are classifiable by the confugeration of fixed number of twelve sign and nine planets. And once this configuration is known, everything about that being can be deterministically predicted.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[Raj_an]

Thank you Ravindran Ji,

From your point of view i can understand that

"Everything in the universe is determined"

That is every living beings character is categorized based on their own constellations(Aries,taurus etc.,).And the rays from the planets that impacts them from various angles(categorized as houses) Under which a life made a physical presence in the world or taken its first breath.

Since These predictions are made by our old peoples(When there is no scientific instruments are there) who showed immense interest in "Sky Gazing or Star Gazing".And want their future generations to be protected from various evils they gave this astroscience.

But now in 'KaliYug' lot of inventions were made and they are in search for another galaxy and lives in another planets.

 

Also along with the natural celestial bodies in the sky,by which they categorized the houses. There are man made celestial bodies such as satellites,space launchers... Which keeps on sending their micro waves(mobiles),nano waves to the earth.Also men are depleting the protective layer of ozone where the human being they themselves are making a SUN AS A GREAT ENEMY OR MALEFIC to the earth filling it with CFCarbons.(So In near future in whatever angle or house SUN is placed is always becaming Malefic ).

 

Humans are becaming artifical or more scientific oriented than the Natural one(includes medical caesarean).And as your said "All the people ever came and yet to come are classifiable by the confugeration of fixed number of twelve sign and nine planets." Is it not making our predictions in the way of old science an undertermined one? Is'nt the Determinism or assumption is going false in this case?

 

Finite is always that is determined! And there are infinite that is yet to be invented- And if this s the case. why there is no new inclusions or new way of predictions are not made here.

 

 

Thank you

Rajan

[U.Sanjeeva Rao]

Thanks Ravindran Kesavan.It's a good insight into the nature of dependancy and inter-relationship.Astrology also deals with the same.

Rajan ,

Astrology deals with not only 12 houses,9 planets, but also 27 stars,each of its 4 padas,30 tidhis,yogas,karanas,60 year cycles,divisional charts etc. There are different branches like Muhurtha,Prasna,Medical etc.

The combinations cover all the living and coming beings.

Few can grasp some of all these things.And some developed more techniques in predictions like KP,Raman,K.N.Rao and many .It goes on........

 

USR

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Rajan,

Deterministic assumption is never false, though a science can grow. Phisics has grown over time. new laws and new fields came to being over a period of time. And the field is till growing. Bur the basic assumption of phisics does not change. The principle of Determinism itself is not obsolete. Cause effect relationship is the basis of physics and all physical sciences. Science searches for causes of phenomenon and events.

 

 

Strangly enough while our knowledge grows over a period of time and new and new fields , things and gadgets emerge, the theory - the explanatory schema - itself more and more economical in the sence it involves fewer and fewer fundamental entities and concepts explanining all the multiplicity of phenominon. For example in physics, earlier days there were many amd many forces considered as fundsamental - Electricity, magnetic force, light, heat, mechanical energy, sound, gravitation, atomic force and so on and on. Each had a different theory. But as time progressed these theories starting merging with one another. It was discovered that heat and light are fundamentally the same thing .What we call heat is a form of light ( called Infra red ray) and hence heat and light could be merged together with one single theory. The same thing happened with electricity and magneticism .We have one single force called electro magnetic force. Now we know light itself is a form of elecrtomagneric wave. 'Unification of forces' this is called . And such unification continued in the development of physics giving us fewer and fewer theries.

 

To cut the long story short we have the lattest position that there are only four fundamental forces in the universe : Electromagnetic, Gravitation, Strong nuclear force and week nuclear force. Every thing else -all other varities of forces - are manifestation of these four fundamental forces.

Now the lattest attempt is to unify these four in to one single force. Physicsts call it the Grand Unification Stephen Hawking employs his pet term for this the Theory of Everything (TOE) - that is, physics is progressing towards, the discovery of one single theory that will explain everything in the universe deterministically.

 

Now the question Does things multiplies or reduces?

Answer is yes and know. Things themselves multiplied over a period of time We discovered new and new objects in the universe - new planets, gallexies, blackholes. And we invented new and new things, Aeroplanes, TV, micorvave oven, computers, robots, - wich dint exist before. But our explanation - our theory of these things- is getting reduceed to more and more economic schema. We have few theories of these things than before and we are aiding for a single theory ultimately. While physical things multiply theories reduce. This is scientific progress. And multiplication of things doesnot imply failure of determinism. As long all all of them can be casully explained determinism stays.

 

Now from science to astrology. Our discovery of new and new things and changed life style in no way suggests that the detareminism is failing.

Of course our ancient thinks dint have the idea of rocket, TV or microvave or uranium. And hence in ther predictive system they have not stated the the planatory associations for these things. ( each planet has associations for example, sun is associated with soul, king, copper, etc. It is with this associated list astrologers predict events in ones life. For example if sun in thenth house- the house of profession - profession is infered as in government (kingdom), or associated with copper. etc) We dont find in the astrological texts reference to new new jobs and materials, For example we dont know which planet is signifying Uranium and hence we dont know how to account for people working in neuclear reactors. But this apparant failure is not a failure of determinism. People working in atomic reactor with uranium metel are not free because astrology doesnot predict their profession. That is a wrong interpretation of determinism. It is a failure of our knowledge. Of course modern astrologers have been working and enhancing their list of associations. This is a matter of emprical observation. Data from real life gives the input for this work. And as HST pointed out in the previous post Such work of progress has happened and is going on ( Krishnamurty, B.V.Raman, K.N.Rao...)

 

New celestrial bodies like uraneous neptun and pluto are already included in western astrology along with their associations though Indian astrology still retains the vedic schema of seven bodies along with rahu and ketu. It is a matter of emprical work again to see which model is more adequate. However a model is a model and can never be the real thing that it simulates. That is, models are in some sence representarttion of the real with simplications. If the model is as complex as the real then it is not a model and it does not serve the purpose as model. The !2 sign and 9 planet system is a model. There is no sence to include everything of the universe in to a model. Then the model looses its advantage of simplicity and no one can handle such a complex system. Astrology then become next to immposible science if the astrologer has to take all the million things before predicting the event, and such a complity is not needed. Just like science which employs few thinga to explain every thing, vedic astrology deals with few things to explain the myrrads of events in human life.

 

This is not to say that we should not correct our model. However such a correction need not end up including everything in the universe. There is no advantage in it. While adequacy of a model can be improved by modifing perfecting it by systematic research, infinate complixity is not needed for reaching a fair level of adequacy. This has been found true in the case of all scientific modells.

 

By this I dont imply the present system of astrology given by Vedic thinkers is an adequate and complete and perfect model which cannot be improved up on. But non the less it is a model.- much like any scientific model

 

From my postings it should not be interpreted that I argue that astrology is a perfect science. My own personal view is far from it. Astrology still cannot predict manything and predictions do go wrong drastically. However I do maintain Astrology is conceived from the scireentic temper. The ancient thinkers are regorously scientific in their outlook - they assumed rigorous determinism . The failure of astrology cannot be attributeed to their lack of scientific temper. If the model is not working it only means that it is inadequate - not that determinism is not true.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[deepa.bhandari]

Respected Ravindran ji,

 

Your inference that failure of astrology is a net resultant of it being an inadequate model and in no way vexes the principles of determinism is rather true. However, we come to the question of the role of astrology - things like if I am destined to get married to X, then why should I get my horoscope matched? Or what is the use of muhuratha if it is destined that my business will run into losses?

 

There is a need to ensure people imbibe astrology as a tool to make their lives better. Knowledge of astrology leads to a greater conscience when one understands how my present karmas might influence lives to come! Or rather - my actions might even affect my children and my coming generations.

 

I do not think (and as correctly mentioned by respected USR ji in one of is posts in another thread) that prediction should be done. One may like to be forewarned and forearmed for something that "might" happen.

 

In my opinion, astrology never fails in that sense. Pluto isnt recognised as a planet now. It was a planet till few years ago. In the same way, planetary influences (their gravitational pull) upon human genetic code while still in the mother's womb - the exact time of birth as well as lat/long. determining the amount and extent of the force acting so - might become a future discovery by science - In keeping with the same, its only common sense to perform remedial actions as and when a problem is encountered.

 

The dismal aspect is that while science is "modern" astrology is considered "ancient" - and there exists widespread faithlessness upon any new additions made into the unfinished or the lost original model.

 

In a thought provoking article recently published in a newspaper - the eight paths to self realisation - towards sadhana - are karma, vaishnava(bhakti), shaiva(meditation/gyana), dakshina (successful amalgamation of the previous 3), vama, and the highest paths of siddhanta, divya and kaula.

 

No spiritually enlightened soul ever looks towards astrology. Nobody speaks of liberation from the mathematical calculations of past plus and minusses. Astrologers (whether old or new) therefore are at a much lower level towards self realisation themselves. Spending a lifetime in search of empirically deduced conclusions which might change or may not be accepted is therefore meaningless to some extent.

 

It brings about the inference that having completely realised effects of past lives and planetary influences upon us - we must imbibe the spirit of right karmic actions and try to dispense with past burden, as also pray and rectify negative influences - only ultimately to focus upon the higher goal of self actualisation.

 

Best wishes

Deepa

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Deepa Bhandari,

I am not sure the practice of matching the horoscope for marrage purpose is truely in conformity with rigorous astrological science. (though people do it). I am expressing this skepticism on this issue from the evedance of nadi astrology( which i once happen to consult). Nadi astrology is astrology- written by the original rishies themselves. _ that is what it is claimed. And it is pretty accurate to an ammazing degree. You cannot reject its authoroty if you are an astrologer.

 

In this nadi texts, every thing is explicitly stated with specific details and minute accuracy. It states the name , horoscopic chart and other personal details like address of the would be wife, amoung other things. This text gives an impression that ones's wife or huspant is completely predetermined like everything else. (This is the case not only in my case . In every bodys nadi text the names and details of their spouse are specified pin pointedly.Every one has exactly specific person/s as their partners - and this is written several thousand years before) Where is the question of matching and choosing if this is the case? ( in Nadi astrologi there is no concept of matching the horoscope - it will tell you who is your partner accuractly - Full stop.

 

I suppose ordinary astrologers practice matchmaking because they are not in position to predict with the accuracy of nadi system and exactly point out who is ones wife or husband. Match making is the best they could do in this circumstance I believe. In the light of nadi match making procedures should be interpreted as an exercise of choice but some rough and vague attempt to guess who is one's destined partner. Ultimately whome the person realliy gets married is the one destined to get married in spite of all the matchmaking and care and causion they take, I guess. This is my conclution from my concrete research in nadi astrology - not just an opinion.

 

As to your observation about spiritually advanced soul being not concerned of astrology, I can completely aggree with you. Spiritual advancement is about freeying or finishing off ones past karma and not adding fress ones. It is about liberation, moksha mukti going beyond karmic realm. In the case of such a person, who have managed to burn or errace the Karmic influences of the past, obviously astrology will not work as there are no Karma left . Since astrology's determinism is karmic determinism - that is the causal factors are karmas and not planets - planets do not directly affect any one . some people assume that the planets with their rays or force or radiation ect directly influence the events. this is not true. What determines ones life events are the host of karmas in the Karmic chain. Planets are merely indicaters of these karmic condition - a diagnostiic device. Hence when ones karma gets finished - when one attains jeevan mukti - that one is free from karma and hence astrology will fail , though that person will have a horoscopic chart and planets go around the sky as usual.

 

Astrology fails in this case as the karmic determinism fails for these individuals. These souls who are freed from karma mala are called pralaya kalas and are to be distinguished from sakalas - the ordinary souls who are under the full grip of karma mala. Astrology is never meant for pralayakalas, who are finished with their karma and are free from karmic laws. It would be an error to cast there horoscope and attempt to predict their life event as they are beyond the realm of karma.

 

But quoting their example and extending the argument of freedom to sakalas- the one who are bound by the deterministic chain of karma will do no good . It only add confusion in the astrological science. You will end up contradicting yourself - you will say Astrology works there by invoking determinism and at the same breath you will say "but there is free will - people can choose" , rejecting determinism. (You cannot say it is raining now and it is not raining now simultaniously - that would be a logical contradiction. isint it?) Two opposite position together one cannot hold. You cannot hold determinism and free will simultaniously - that would be a logical contradiction.. To avoid this contradiction you must attribute determinism to some people and freedom to entirly different set of people. Or you could hold a perticular person is determined at one stage of life and free at another stage of life ( jeevan mukti stage) If you mix up these issues a logical fallacy arises.

 

Unless you maintain a rigorous uncompromising deterministic position you could not defend astrology. Astrology or any predictive and lawboubd science works because of determinism. And if you are not consistent on this you will end up in a set on contradictions.

 

Regards,

 

K.Ravindran

[deepa.bhandari]

Respected Ravindran ji,

 

Thoughts most enlightening.. Its a real pleasure attaining knowledge from your posts. I consider myself an ordinary astrologer but I do not mean to advocate astrology at all. For me, astrology is the biggest truth and it really does not matter if the world believes in it or not. But in the wake of a lost or inadequate model of the subject, I am perplexed with thoughts of a future course of action. Having completely realised and felt truth of our karmic cycle and what our horoscope mirrors, I struggle to find the right path.

 

In the context of spiritually evolved people, what I wanted to say was that they never preach followers / or people to perform astrological remedies. Here, I am talking about common people - bonded in the shackles of their karmic burden. At this point in time, astrology is a 100% proof of the karmic cycle.

 

I have very little idea about naadi astrology but I know of someone who was in a complete state of shock when he was even told that he will come on so and so date with a person called so and so to find out about his life and future. Its most amazing.

 

As per naadi astrology if each and everything is pre-determined, then what is the purpose of astrology?

 

Respected sir, I will be unable to maintain a rigorous and uncompromising stance because of various answers I have to still search for. Until then, its a fact that I will be quite confused. However, I have complete faith in the basic principles of astrology and the truth as reflected in our horoscopes. I have not read any scientific basis for the same, but I have witnessed and felt the truth behind it.

 

My best regards to you,

Deepa

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Deepa bhandari,

The puropse of astrology is not to manipulate life events - which is quite pointless, given the deterministic schema of life. And perhaps this is why spritual gurues do not prescribe remedies to chande the course of events.

The purpose of astrology is to gain wisdom - to know our destinied path beforehand gives a serinity to accept the life as it is with out struggling against it and when we know what is to come we would not mentally suffer our destiny. (If I know in the course of sade sati I will mis a promotion, I will not be angry at my boss and I will accept that as a routine thing). There is setrinity and wisdom in knowing our complete destiny. We can then 'let it be' - that is a highest spiritual state. When we dont resist our destiny, when we completely accept it, and when we know that our suffering are due to our own past karma - that knowledge itself is liberative. and there is power in it.

I shal narrate a mythologicalsrory to demonstrate this.

 

Sani catches everybody and it is his duty to do so. But if the person he is going to catch happened to be a big shot a vvip (in a spiritual sence) , Sani will inform the vvip well in advence and seek permission to do his duty of catching.

 

Once it was the turn of Hanuman for sade sati Sani. Sani went to hanuman and politely told him; " Your highness it is my time time to catch you for seven and half years".

Hanuman said "Okey. No problem. Do your duty'.

Sani asked "Whare shall I sit - please show me a place"

Hanuman said "Sit on my head"

And Sani sat on Hanumans Head. (And you know When Sani Catches some one he will deprive comfort and make the person struggle very hard). As soon as Sani sat on Hanuman's head, Hanuman started building a big temple for Ram - A really big one so he needed gient size stones to build it. So he collected huge huge stones from various sources and put it on his head and jumping around to reach the place of the temple site. You know Sani is a lazy man( He makes others work hard but he himself is very lazy, tamasic in nature slow moving etc). He found this load put on him too much and on the top of it the Hanuman's, style of carring it- jumping around - was really unbearable. After some time , Sani started begging Hanuman to leave him. But hanuman would not listern. Rather hanuman advised Sani to be quite and participate in the holy work for Rama and earn some punya. Sani really started pleading and begging.

Then Hanuman said: "Alright on one condition I will let you go. You should not catch my baktas, is that alright for you?" Sani was more than happy to promise that and said "I will never come any where near you and your Baktas too. Please leave me now" Then Hanuman left Sani.

 

The moral of the story: Generally It is assumed that remedy for sade sati is Hanuman worship. While this is coprrect, Hanuman worship must be understood in the right perspective. Worship of a deity is not puting some light and flower and muttering some mantra. Worship of a deity is to become one with the deity- to become like the deity. Worshiping hanuman is to become like Hanuman - having hanuman's attitude towards hard tedious work. Hanuman did not consider hard work as problem or as a curse He thought of it as Ram's seva , as a worship. Hence he did not suffer. Sani which makes people to do hard tedious work and gives suffering to others could not succeed in giving suffering to hanuman as he accepted that phase of sade sati as a boon to do Ram seva. Hanuman had no complaints for sani's visit- rather he accepted gladely as an opportunity to do lot of hard work and gain merit. It is Sani who was suffering during this period.

 

If we accept our sade sati gladly without any complaint and understand that it is our duty to go through the tough period -even an oportunity to refine ourselfs ( Sani gives us suffering but it teaches a spiritual lession - it denies things makes kings beggers or cooks or menticants . It demolishes or mellows down our ego - it is a very spiritual task.) - then there is no suffering we will take it sportively. This is true Hanuman worship - a true and right remedi for sade sati.

 

What has been said for sade sati is true for all other planets and for our destiny as a whole. By not resisting our destiny, And accepting it as our karma yoga we gain serinity peace and Sthidha prajna. We lead our life with a spiritual quality. This is the purpose of Astrology - to show us what is our karma in this life and to make us accept it with serinity.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[deepa.bhandari]

Respected Ravindran ji,

 

Once again, a most profound and enlightening post! I am really at a loss of words and cannot describe my gratitude in feeling so relieved after the kind of focus that you provide.

 

Yes I have read this anecdote as you mention. Then there was another one an uncle of mine used to always tell me - the way shani came to shivji too. This is very interesting and its true that hanumanji's bhakti is nullified if Lord Rama's is not worshipped. My uncle also says, that hanuman chalisa must never be read in the morning but evening, and that is because morning is the time to pray to Sri Rama.

 

Respected sir, please do continue this thread as much as possible. This is most invaluable! The purpose of astrology is made clear to me now. Acceptance of what is to come will also need a fair amount of spirituality. In most cases, common man approaches an astrologer when he faces a dilemma. He seeks remedies. He seeks hopes. At that moment, asking a common man to accept life with its ups and downs may not be understood correctly. How does one strengthen self and face difficulties and past burden? Also, is there any other way in which its possible to relieve karmic backlog?

 

What is your take on God's role in our daily mundane life? Has he made srishti upon principles and that is how things always remain, or is HE active? Do his blessings upon us act as a chhatra chhaya.. protecting us and relieving us somewhat?

 

In a commercial world as today, it is difficult to be a follower to a living guru. However, vibes and strong force felt towards someone (a saint or a guru) - how is that described?

 

Ravindran ji, suddenly, I look up to you with a clammer of all questions that bombard me and this isnt in any logical order.

 

PLease do enlighten further..!

 

Looking forward, eagerly

 

Best Wishes and Regards,

 

Deepa

[NAXSHATRA]

 

Respected Ravindran ji,

 

Once again, a most profound and enlightening post! I am really at a loss of words and cannot describe my gratitude in feeling so relieved after the kind of focus that you provide.

 

Yes I have read this anecdote as you mention. Then there was another one an uncle of mine used to always tell me - the way shani came to shivji too. This is very interesting and its true that hanumanji's bhakti is nullified if Lord Rama's is not worshipped. My uncle also says, that hanuman chalisa must never be read in the morning but evening, and that is because morning is the time to pray to Sri Rama.

 

Respected sir, please do continue this thread as much as possible. This is most invaluable! The purpose of astrology is made clear to me now. Acceptance of what is to come will also need a fair amount of spirituality. In most cases, common man approaches an astrologer when he faces a dilemma. He seeks remedies. He seeks hopes. At that moment, asking a common man to accept life with its ups and downs may not be understood correctly. How does one strengthen self and face difficulties and past burden? Also, is there any other way in which its possible to relieve karmic backlog?

 

What is your take on God's role in our daily mundane life? Has he made srishti upon principles and that is how things always remain, or is HE active? Do his blessings upon us act as a chhatra chhaya.. protecting us and relieving us somewhat?

 

In a commercial world as today, it is difficult to be a follower to a living guru. However, vibes and strong force felt towards someone (a saint or a guru) - how is that described?

 

Ravindran ji, suddenly, I look up to you with a clammer of all questions that bombard me and this isnt in any logical order.

 

PLease do enlighten further..!

 

Looking forward, eagerly

 

Best Wishes and Regards,

 

Deepa

 

Rajanji provided a thread only and Ravindranji,Usrji, and Deepaji have woven a large quantity of cloth out of that! KRISHNA! KRISHNA!Thank very much you all ! Its a reuest to all, after you have finished please arrange to iron it and make dhotis which any needy astrologer like me can don while visiting a forum like this elsewhere!

Highly Obliged

 

Lalit K. Sharma

[NAXSHATRA]

 

Dear Deepa bhandari,

The puropse of astrology is not to manipulate life events - which is quite pointless, given the deterministic schema of life. And perhaps this is why spritual gurues do not prescribe remedies to chande the course of events.

The purpose of astrology is to gain wisdom - to know our destinied path beforehand gives a serinity to accept the life as it is with out struggling against it and when we know what is to come we would not mentally suffer our destiny. (If I know in the course of sade sati I will mis a promotion, I will not be angry at my boss and I will accept that as a routine thing). There is setrinity and wisdom in knowing our complete destiny. We can then 'let it be' - that is a highest spiritual state. When we dont resist our destiny, when we completely accept it, and when we know that our suffering are due to our own past karma - that knowledge itself is liberative. and there is power in it.

I shal narrate a mythologicalsrory to demonstrate this.

 

Sani catches everybody and it is his duty to do so. But if the person he is going to catch happened to be a big shot a vvip (in a spiritual sence) , Sani will inform the vvip well in advence and seek permission to do his duty of catching.

 

Once it was the turn of Hanuman for sade sati Sani. Sani went to hanuman and politely told him; " Your highness it is my time time to catch you for seven and half years".

Hanuman said "Okey. No problem. Do your duty'.

Sani asked "Whare shall I sit - please show me a place"

Hanuman said "Sit on my head"

And Sani sat on Hanumans Head. (And you know When Sani Catches some one he will deprive comfort and make the person struggle very hard). As soon as Sani sat on Hanuman's head, Hanuman started building a big temple for Ram - A really big one so he needed gient size stones to build it. So he collected huge huge stones from various sources and put it on his head and jumping around to reach the place of the temple site. You know Sani is a lazy man( He makes others work hard but he himself is very lazy, tamasic in nature slow moving etc). He found this load put on him too much and on the top of it the Hanuman's, style of carring it- jumping around - was really unbearable. After some time , Sani started begging Hanuman to leave him. But hanuman would not listern. Rather hanuman advised Sani to be quite and participate in the holy work for Rama and earn some punya. Sani really started pleading and begging.

Then Hanuman said: "Alright on one condition I will let you go. You should not catch my baktas, is that alright for you?" Sani was more than happy to promise that and said "I will never come any where near you and your Baktas too. Please leave me now" Then Hanuman left Sani.

 

The moral of the story: Generally It is assumed that remedy for sade sati is Hanuman worship. While this is coprrect, Hanuman worship must be understood in the right perspective. Worship of a deity is not puting some light and flower and muttering some mantra. Worship of a deity is to become one with the deity- to become like the deity. Worshiping hanuman is to become like Hanuman - having hanuman's attitude towards hard tedious work. Hanuman did not consider hard work as problem or as a curse He thought of it as Ram's seva , as a worship. Hence he did not suffer. Sani which makes people to do hard tedious work and gives suffering to others could not succeed in giving suffering to hanuman as he accepted that phase of sade sati as a boon to do Ram seva. Hanuman had no complaints for sani's visit- rather he accepted gladely as an opportunity to do lot of hard work and gain merit. It is Sani who was suffering during this period.

 

If we accept our sade sati gladly without any complaint and understand that it is our duty to go through the tough period -even an oportunity to refine ourselfs ( Sani gives us suffering but it teaches a spiritual lession - it denies things makes kings beggers or cooks or menticants . It demolishes or mellows down our ego - it is a very spiritual task.) - then there is no suffering we will take it sportively. This is true Hanuman worship - a true and right remedi for sade sati.

 

What has been said for sade sati is true for all other planets and for our destiny as a whole. By not resisting our destiny, And accepting it as our karma yoga we gain serinity peace and Sthidha prajna. We lead our life with a spiritual quality. This is the purpose of Astrology - to show us what is our karma in this life and to make us accept it with serinity.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON KARMVAAD ALSO!

Thanks in anticipation!

[NAXSHATRA]

 

Respected Ravindran ji,

 

Once again, a most profound and enlightening post! I am really at a loss of words and cannot describe my gratitude in feeling so relieved after the kind of focus that you provide.

 

Yes I have read this anecdote as you mention. Then there was another one an uncle of mine used to always tell me - the way shani came to shivji too. This is very interesting and its true that hanumanji's bhakti is nullified if Lord Rama's is not worshipped. My uncle also says, that hanuman chalisa must never be read in the morning but evening, and that is because morning is the time to pray to Sri Rama.

 

Respected sir, please do continue this thread as much as possible. This is most invaluable! The purpose of astrology is made clear to me now. Acceptance of what is to come will also need a fair amount of spirituality. In most cases, common man approaches an astrologer when he faces a dilemma. He seeks remedies. He seeks hopes. At that moment, asking a common man to accept life with its ups and downs may not be understood correctly. How does one strengthen self and face difficulties and past burden? Also, is there any other way in which its possible to relieve karmic backlog?

 

What is your take on God's role in our daily mundane life? Has he made srishti upon principles and that is how things always remain, or is HE active? Do his blessings upon us act as a chhatra chhaya.. protecting us and relieving us somewhat?

 

In a commercial world as today, it is difficult to be a follower to a living guru. However, vibes and strong force felt towards someone (a saint or a guru) - how is that described?

 

Ravindran ji, suddenly, I look up to you with a clammer of all questions that bombard me and this isnt in any logical order.

 

PLease do enlighten further..!

 

Looking forward, eagerly

 

Best Wishes and Regards,

 

Deepa

 

What is your take on God's role in our daily mundane life?

Deepajii! WHO we are? by the way!are we not playing his diferrent rolls here!

[deepa.bhandari]

Dear Lalit Sharmaji,

 

We are yet to be ONE with HIM, AGAIN. An oft-traversed pre-propunded theory becomes an easy declaration. Connecting to someone at a much lower level like mine and explaining things to a saturated context and arriving at the same conclusion is another.

 

I am in eager anticipation of whatever I can learn from Shri Ravindran ji.

 

Best wishes

Deepa

[NAXSHATRA]

 

Dear Lalit Sharmaji,

 

We are yet to be ONE with HIM, AGAIN. An oft-traversed pre-propunded theory becomes an easy declaration. Connecting to someone at a much lower level like mine and explaining things to a saturated context and arriving at the same conclusion is another.

 

I am in eager anticipation of whatever I can learn from Shri Ravindran ji.

 

Best wishes

Deepa

 

true!very true!but i thought a little dilution could introduce a diferrent topic to churn[!] Inverted i landed me in exclaimation[!] THANKYOU!

i must appreciate the inquisitiveness you have,may it be with you always!so that everybody can benefit,becouse you are open to dicussion and articulate at the same time! lekin deepaji,this seriousness!

BEKHUDI BESABAB NAHIN GHALIB,

KUCH TO HAI,JISKI PARDA DARI HAI!

MAY GOD BLESS YOU!

 

Lalit

[deepa.bhandari]

Shri Lalit ji

 

ROFL . "PARDA DARI" nahin hai sir, aane waale samay se yeh bandi DARI HUI hai. ha ha ha

 

anyhow, with all earnestness, i really look forward to continued talks with shri ravindran ji.

 

Best wishes

Deepa

[Raj_an]

Pranaam to all,

 

If the puropse of astrology is not to manipulate life events, Then why they are relating it to our good and bad deeds in our life. and why they are relating divisional charts as a replica of our life events

 

if the purpose of astrology is to gain wisdom and accept the life as it is with out struggling against it- Then everyone becomes Lazy. And doesnt it reduces the Human effort. Rather we can give it as a Advice to boost their thougt to overcome it ,inspite of asking them to take whatever it is and keep quiet.and it is not mental sufferring rather than innovative thinking, Where there is a struggling of thought there comes enlightment, then only the mind finds a path towards light.

 

Thanks,

Rajan

[NAXSHATRA]

 

Pranaam to all,

 

If the puropse of astrology is not to manipulate life events, Then why they are relating it to our good and bad deeds in our life. and why they are relating divisional charts as a replica of our life events

 

if the purpose of astrology is to gain wisdom and accept the life as it is with out struggling against it- Then everyone becomes Lazy. And doesnt it reduces the Human effort. Rather we can give it as a Advice to boost their thougt to overcome it ,inspite of asking them to take whatever it is and keep quiet.and it is not mental sufferring rather than innovative thinking, Where there is a struggling of thought[WHITH WHOM?WITH WHAT?] there comes enlightment, then only the mind finds a path towards light.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME TRUE NORTH PRINCIPLES {BY EXPERENCE, OBSEVATION ,LEGACY....}TO POLARISE YOUR THOUGHTS,TO HAVE A SENSE OF DIRECTION!

BEFORE REFUTING ESTABLISHED NORMS AND PRINCIPLES OF ANY SYSTEM{LEAVE ASTROLOGY ALONE} AND TRYING TO BE INVENTIVE ONE SHOULD TRY TO REALISE THE ESSENCE OF THE SAME ,NOT JUST READING AND GIVING COMMENTS!

[deepa.bhandari]

Warm greetings Lalit Sharma ji!

 

Dear Raj_an,

 

Kindly apply a balanced perspective. What Ravindran ji meant was that we must not (rather we cannot - and any such attempt is futile, irrelevant and uncalled for) - interfere with the natural karmic cycle.

 

Astrology should give us an understanding of the karmic cycle. Our karma are our own.

 

Lalitji wanted Ravindran ji to talk on the topic of karma and purusharth, I suppose now, Lalit ji would like to guide us further...

 

Lalit ji, pls explain, the role of our actions..

 

Regards

Deepa