I went for a darshan...

[bija]

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[theist]

I'd rather have the darshan of bhakta Joe who was on LSD yesterday and today is on his first day of chanting japa in line with siddhanta as given by AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada myself.

[Baobabtree]

I'd rather have the darshan of bhakta Joe who was on LSD yesterday and today is on his first day of chanting japa in line with siddhanta as given by AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada myself.

Get off your high horse. This woman has done a lot more for the world then you ever have, so I suggest you keep the usual ignorant "shun the impersonalistic atheist" junk to yourself.

[theist]

Thanks for the suggestion but I chose to ignore it.

[bija]

 

I'd rather have the darshan of bhakta Joe who was on LSD yesterday and today is on his first day of chanting japa in line with siddhanta as given by AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada myself. posted by theist

 

Yes. I expected this kind of response. Why?

 

My encounter with Amma was nice. It was not religious, it was simply a loving embrace. The following weeks increased my devotion to Krsna...infact the next day in the Iskcon temple I was performing jaap and a full vision of Sri Krsna appeared before my eyes. All thought stopped, I became stunned...the experience of the beauty was that intense, His hips and skin was that soft that tears poured from my eyes. I will never forget seeing my Lord. It was like a million ecstacies.

 

For the next three weeks simple rememberance of that vision during jaap invoked uncontrollable tears. Everyday.

 

I have told several devotees of my encounter with Amma and they all said it must have been tantra or some trick of suggestion. I disagree, she is a saint. I could feel her even before I saw her. It is sad people criticize the work of God among us.

 

Two weeks after I saw her I was offering incense to her in gratitude for these overwhelming devotional emotions and bhavas. Miraculously a lock of her long black hair manifested in my hand (no kidding). I heard her say to me, throw it away, do not be attached to the material. So I did.

 

After this darshan experience my heart changed. I realized there is much growth for me to do spiritually. And I will never criticize a worshiper of Lord Shiva or Devi Maa again, even though my devotion is to Sri Krsna.

 

If I am divergent in this regard, so be it!

[Sarva gattah]

 

I'd rather have the darshan of bhakta Joe who was on LSD yesterday and today is on his first day of chanting japa in line with siddhanta as given by AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada myself.

 

 

 

Me too, except for the LSD hoodoo guru

 

[bija]

Come on fellas...why? I am sure your reasons are scriptually advanced and excellent:idea:.

 

I break ranks here Sarva. I have always been this way in my spiritual feeling and cannot deny who I am. I love many paths of spirituality and feel no threat from that appreciation to my Personalism and aspiration for the Cowherd Boy.

 

Now saying that it is obvious to any Gaudiya with scriptural knowledge, that I am not a pure follower of Sri Rupa (yet). But at least I am not imitating that purity and fanatic. And hopefully not quick to speak poorly of a devotee of Devi or Lord Shiva due to my attachment to Lord Krsna.

 

In my humble opinion if we read books like Bhajan Rahasya - click here by Srila Bhaktivinoda we will see the greatness of our tradition. And by grace may see how we are not totally pure in our devotion to Hari yet (I can only speak for myself). But day by day we may be purified and eventually our one-pointedness will be nothing like fanatacism. Until then best to be honest in our station I feel.

[bija]

Madhurya Kadambini Third Shower by Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura.

 

...The scriptures also state that if a person, after considering all these facts, adamantly equates Lord Visnu with demigods like LOrd brahma, Lord Siva, and so on he is condemned as an atheist and an offender. The basis of this scriptural injunction lies in the fact that while lOrd brahma is generally an empowered jiva, Lord Siva at times is also an empowered jiva. Persons who have not researched deeply into this subject matter end up forming their own speculative ideas. They make such comments as, 'Lord Visnu is God and not Lord Siva', or 'Lord Siva is the spupreme and not Lord Visnu'.They continue to say, 'We are undeviating devotees of Lord Visnu, we do not care for Lord Siva', and vice versa. Hence their inlination toward polemics and offences....Such persons begin to repent of having committed such offences and sincerely take up chanting of the Lord's holy name. In fact, it is this chanting that finally exonerates such people from their offence.

[bija]

 

Taken from Bhajan rahasya by Srila Bhaktivinoda

In the Vishnu-rahasya it is stated:

alinganam varam manye

vyala-vyaghra-jalaukasam

na sangah shalya-yuktanam

nana-devaika-sevinam (9)

One should prefer to embrace a snake, a tiger or an alligator rather than associate with persons who are worshipers of various demigods and who are impelled by material desire.

The Gaudiya ideal is totally one-pointed and free from the material plane, so in this sense of purity, your devotion Theist and Sarva is great. Unfortunately in this birth such grace has not come in my heart. Best to be honest and free of offence.

I would question, what is the material desire referred to in this verse?

Cheers.

[bija]

 

But day by day we may be purified and eventually our one-pointedness will be nothing like fanatacism. Until then best to be honest in our station I feel. by bija

Otherwise our religion becomes a turn off for many. Most people can see through the bull....and the layers of conceit.

 

It is like this isn't it?

[theist]

 

If I am divergent in this regard, so be it!

Yes so be it. What you do is your business. Promoting an impersonalist teacher as an adjunct to Vaisnavism on a public forum makes what you say every bodies busy am I have expressed my view.

 

Nobody should mislead or be misled, impersonalism and Vaisnavism don't mix.

[theist]

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Taken from Bhajan rahasya by Srila Bhaktivinoda

In the Vishnu-rahasya it is stated:

alinganam varam manye

vyala-vyaghra-jalaukasam

na sangah shalya-yuktanam

nana-devaika-sevinam (9)

One should prefer to embrace a snake, a tiger or an alligator rather than associate with persons who are worshipers of various demigods and who are impelled by material desire. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

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The Gaudiya ideal is totally one-pointed and free from the material plane, so in this sense of purity, your devotion Theist and Sarva is great. Unfortunately in this birth such grace has not come in my heart. Best to be honest and free of offence.

I would question, what is the material desire referred to in this verse?

Cheers.

 

 

The material desires are those held by the worshippers of various demigods. money beauty fame heaven etc. and even liberation from material suffering devoid of bhakti as taught by the Vaisnavas.

[theist]

 

Yes. I expected this kind of response. Why?

 

Yes of course you did that's why you posted it.

[bija]

For two reasons theist.

 

1: I consider people like you my friends, so wished to open more of my life to you.

 

2: I wish to have small discussion on this topic. Exclusivism has never really sat well with my feelings. But the Hare Krsna movement seems to require that exclusive devotion.

 

Some open ended discussion about that would be nice. Without too much heat.

 

(when I admit publicly I adore Amma - its gonna make some heat ofcourse - but am still a devotee)

 

And if that means rejection so be it. I will follow my heart which is motivated by bhakti, and love for openess and truth.

[bija]

Impersonalist is a very big tag. Amma is not a voidist or extreme impersonalist.

 

She seems to have merged (in her bhavas) into the deity. For years she was a devotee of Sri Krsna and later began to manifest Devi bhava. Ofcourse this type of merging is not in accord with Gaudiya Vaisnavism. But from what I understand is not formless impersonalism.

 

This type of merging is a bonafide liberation (a part of the absolute truth). It is not something I desire. But the bhava she experiences is real. And her bhakti is very very deep.

 

 

True, Karpatriji may be a big Mayavadi, but I don't care; he is great. I love Hari Katha and there is so much juice in these CDs. The point is that whatever his personal philosophical predilection, he recognizes that the force of bhakti is greater than that of nirakara, nirguna, nirasa Brahma, and he says as much. The atmarama verse is never far from his lips. The fact is that once you are an achintya-bhedabheda-vadi, you are not afraid of Mayavadis any more. You become like the hamsa who takes the nectar from a diluted mixture, and as long as there is no outright polemic against bhakti, you can relish that essence. quote by jagat

This quote is the recent post of Jagat's blog. I feel similar in this regard:eek:.

[theist]

 

For two reasons theist.

 

1: I consider people like you my friends, so wished to open more of my life to you.

 

2: I wish to have small discussion on this topic. Exclusivism has never really sat well with my feelings. But the Hare Krsna movement seems to require that exclusive devotion.

 

Some open ended discussion about that would be nice. Without too much heat.

 

(when I admit publicly I adore Amma - its gonna make some heat ofcourse - but am still a devotee)

Feelings must coincide with proper philosophy or it's just some sentimental thing. It is not difficult. Vaisnavism and impersonalism have completely opposite goals in life.

 

Impersonalism kills the bhakti-lata-bija, bija.

 

Look we all have to give things up we enjoy to advance in theism. I love Lao Tzu and his Tao De Ching. If I wanted to be an impersonalist I wouldn't be attracted to Sankaracarya I would be a Taoist. Lao Tzu's approach is much more appealing to me.

 

However I won't let myself read Tao De Ching because it will subvert my goal of becoming a pure theist one day.

 

Open ended discussion is one thing. You mentioned this very thing here not long ago and took no heat for it. This post of Amma strikes me as promotion and from my view that makes you dangerous especially to new comers, therefore deserving of heat.

[bija]

 

However I won't let myself read Tao De Ching because it will subvert my goal of becoming a pure theist one day.

 

Open ended discussion is one thing. You mentioned this very thing here not long ago and took no heat for it. This post of Amma strikes me as promotion and from my view that makes you dangerous especially to new comers, therefore deserving of heat. posted by theist

Ok I am dangerous.

 

It strikes you as promotion. Well let me clear that up. That's not my game.

 

My motivation is a desire for a peaceful world (maybe that is a material desire). Where religion can live in harmony, and set the example for those who have not yet looked into spirit. Simple as that. That is my conscience and passion and love for God. I care for God...and wish his name to be promoted well in this world, free from fundamentalism. A God so glorious, that the lost may be attracted. It is a choice of conscience - sentimental - yep - heartfelt - definately. Dangerous...you decide.

 

You are totally correct that at some point we will let go of those things that may hinder full surrender to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. I am not there yet, and may never be in this life. But my argument is this...

 

'One-pointedness can either be a blessing for others as an example, or a curse exhibiting intolerance'.

 

I find your one-pointedness a blessing by the way Theist. I do not find that same blessing with some Iskcon Prabhupada men.

 

Until we are fixed in heart, in that one-pointedness, I feel it is best to be honest. And yes, at the same time adore the teachings of Sri Gauranga (whilst following instructions). If my freedom in this regard (being honest publicly) is a curse for others, then that is my shortcoming (that Lord Nitaai will purify in due course). Sorry.

 

Dangerous...a comment that I am dangerous...is dangerous in itself.

 

Maybe some others feel similar to me...but are scared if they speak out they will be rejected as dangerous and divergent. To be honest...I feel those fears in religion are not of God...but man's need to control. And that need to control is where religion has gone terribly wrong. And is totally unnattractive for many souls wandering samsara.

[bija]

 

I care for God...and wish his name to be promoted well in this world, free from fundamentalism. by bija

Some may say God can care for himself. In a higher sense I agree - He does not need defending (especially defending a belief system). But I think nurture is very deep. And watching the nightly news over the last 6 years, I decided that God and religion gets a bad rap in kali yuga. And I decided one of the main reasons for that bad rap is the intolerance of the religionists themselves.

 

God is much more beautiful than that.

Amma says her religion is simply 'love'. I agree and felt that love. I felt God in that love...I saw God in that love. She is far from being a danger to humanity, or a block to mankinds fullfillment of purpose - IMHO.

 

That nurture and care extends to God's parts - us. The most compassionate ideal I can hold is to draw the lost and hurting to God.

 

Fanatical religion for me is the anti-thesis of compassion. IMHO.

 

So why am I posting these things. I wish to leave a footprint behind - internet is a good way to do it. Internet can be used for good.

[theist]

 

Ok I am dangerous.

 

It strikes you as promotion. Well let me clear that up. That's not my game.

 

My motivation is a desire for a peaceful world (maybe that is a material desire). Where religion can live in harmony, and set the example for those who have not yet looked into spirit. Simple as that. That is my conscience and passion and love for God. I care for God...and wish his name to be promoted well in this world, free from fundamentalism. A God so glorious, that the lost may be attracted. It is a choice of conscience - sentimental - yep - heartfelt - definately. Dangerous...you decide.

 

You are totally correct that at some point we will let go of those things that may hinder full surrender to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. I am not there yet, and may never be in this life. But my argument is this...

 

'One-pointedness can either be a blessing for others as an example, or a curse exhibiting intolerance'.

Like I said you are promoting. You say you are not but then go right in to explaining what you are promoting, in your opinion. You are promoting Amma clearly or why the video of her licking her worshipper as some kind of blessing. Then you explain how because of her darshan Krishna appeared to you etc etc.

 

In your mind you are promoting tolerance over the intolerance of those who reject taking darshan from mayavadi's like for instance Lord Caitanya and hgis followers who are strong in the admonitions about hearing from impersonalists. "Nectar from the lips of a serpent has poisonous effects," remember that one. You only recognize what you sense as nectar from her darshan but already as a result you are placing yourself directly against the teaching of the Vaisnava acaryas AND THAT IS THE POISON!

 

 

 

 

Until we are fixed in heart, in that one-pointedness, I feel it is best to be honest. And yes, at the same time adore the teachings of Sri Gauranga (whilst following instructions). If my freedom in this regard (being honest publicly) is a curse for others, then that is my shortcoming (that Lord Nitaai will purify in due course). Sorry.

I thought avoiding hearing from mayavadi's was one of those instructions.

 

 

Dangerous...a comment that I am dangerous...is dangerous in itself.

 

Maybe some others feel similar to me...but are scared if they speak out they will be rejected as dangerous and divergent. To be honest...I feel those fears in religion are not of God...but man's need to control. And that need to control is where religion has gone terribly wrong. And is totally unnattractive for many souls wandering samsara.

 

Sorry to be so blunt but this is all so much silly sentimentalism that I am surprised to hear it from someone as intelligent as you are. You really think you can mix the idea that everyone is the really the supreme God and that there is no indivuality after liberation with what is taught in Krishna consciousness?????

 

Please drop all the sentimental talk and please explain philosophically exactly how that works in your super excellent world of all embracing religion.

[bija]

 

You are promoting Amma clearly or why the video of her licking her worshipper as some kind of blessing. posted by theist

The worshipper was a leper. He came to her ashram and the devotees tried to send him away because of the stink of the puss from the sores. She disagreed with the devotees and instead invited him everyday to her ashram. Daily she licked his leprosy pussed out sores. He is now cured, with just the scars showing.

 

Darshan is actually a favorite video that I wished to share, regardless of the response. At Audarya we have many forums, maybe I should have posted it in the Amma forum.

 

She also healed me Theistji...that I cannot deny.

 

Prasadam is waiting. Hari! Hari!

[bija]

 

I thought avoiding hearing from mayavadi's was one of those instructions. by theist

Yes it is. Something my heart cannot do. You see Theist, imperfect (full of desires).

 

I have been a personalist and devotionalist since a child, with mix of jnana and mysticism. I feel I need not apologize for that. I am universalist more than Gaudiya...oh well. Maybe next life.

 

My devotion is to GaurangaKrsna through chanting his holy name...but I do love all religion immensely. After seeing Amma I saw all things have place in some way. And allowing for that and loving life in gratitude, is closer to my heart than exclusive bhakti presently. Maybe that will change. Actually I find 'gratitude' for life and all that is, is a driving factor in my bhakti (and joy). Gratitude is a driving factor in my relationship with God, thank you Lord!

 

I am happy to post these truths of my soul...so I am not dangerous to new ones ok:). They will surely see through my bull...just like you have.

 

Saying all this...if I was asked to live in a devotional community I would choose bhakti. A good friend has asked me to come for a buddhist retreat in Thailand next year (he is becoming a buddhist monk). I would rather sing and dance the holy names Theist. If we have tasted a tiny drop of Srimate Radharani's kindness...there is no turning back. Just moving forward gradually.

 

Gradual evolution of spiritual consciousness and choice. The pinnacle being Goloka Vrindavan...is it not? Some of us come back again and again and again old mate....(and feel ok with that)....

 

Hari! Hari!

[cbrahma]

 

She is Amma, sometimes know as Universal Mother, or Durga . Her 'husband' is Sri Bhagavan who claims he is an avatar - a Visnu-tattva avatar.

Of course this is fraudulent. Religion without philosophy, in fact religion without truth is sentimentality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[bija]

 

She is Amma, sometimes know as Universal Mother, or Durga . Her 'husband' is Sri Bhagavan who claims he is an avatar - a Visnu-tattva avatar.

Of course this is fraudulent. Religion without philosophy, in fact religion without truth is sentimentality. posted by cbrahma

 

 

Not Amma and Bhagavan (they are the ones who charge 10,000 dollars for diksha).

 

Sri Amritanandamayi devi - Ammachi - Amma. I best be careful posting videos, some think I am promoting....

Maybe I should not have shared my inner heart in this forum...hmmm?

 

 

 

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW3a2Nonh8U&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">

[theist]

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> I thought avoiding hearing from mayavadi's was one of those instructions. by theist </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

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Yes it is. Something my heart cannot do. You see Theist, imperfect (full of desires).

 

Fine. But don't promote impersonalist teachers in one post and then in the next post talk about your initiation into GV Vaisnavism. You just agreed it is a fault so admitting the fault right off is better then trying to pretend the two go well together.

 

 

I have been a personalist and devotionalist since a child, with mix of jnana and mysticism. I feel I need not apologize for that. I am universalist more than Gaudiya...oh well. Maybe next life.

 

No need to apologize. Do you think Vaisnavism is something less than universal?

 

 

 

 

I am happy to post these truths of my soul...so I am not dangerous to new ones ok. They will surely see through my bull...just like you have.

 

 

How do you know what a new person will see? You are promoting both impersonalism and personalism in your posts. That is simply a confused state. Pick one or the other.

[cbrahma]

 

Seeing nothing as apart from my own Self "— this was Amma's vision, that everything in creation was part of Her own Self. At that time the Divine Mother also imparted to Her a mission— to ask the people to fulfil their human birth through the message "Oh man, merge in your Self!"

http://www.amritapuri.org/vision/vision.php

 

 

This sounds suspiciously like impersonal moksa, merging into the brahmajyoti.

It is unclear what is meant by 'fulfil their human birth'.

The goal of human life is to question its purpose and to realize 'aham brahmasmi' (I am spirit). Perhaps that is what she is saying. I am spirit, however, doesn't mean I am the Divine Spirit, One and the Same - what she calls the Self.

But she may be a true self-realized jnani - which is actually an advanced state - far more than being a mudane karmi.