listening to the holy name from the lips of mayavadis

[RadhaMukunda]

Thanks for quoting someone else again. Please, refrain from writing anything yourself. Your writings are unitelligible.

[ranjeetmore]

why is there even a slight doubt regarding sri Krsna's supremacy?

Some ignorant persons here hav claimed that every devata is brahm Himself.

 

Anante svarge loke jeye tati tishthati.-kenopanishad.

 

Asma loka duskramya anusmin svarge loke

Sarvan kaaman aaptwan mritas sama bhavat: sama bhavat:

-aitereya upanishad.

 

Svarga loka is NOT THE ETERNAL KINGDOM OF GOD which sme unfortunate pple assume to be.

The above verses declare that svarga is temporary.It is material.Under maya.

There are 10 classes of svarga. Right frm manushya gandharva loka to brahmloka.Indra,chandra,brhaspati,Brahma all these come within the mayic purview of the above planes of material existence.All the demigods has material bodies,kaam,krodh,lobh,moha,madh,matsarya...everything is there.the 4 defects of mayic existence-janm,mrityu,jara vyadhi are existent there too.How can you make such unintelligent asumptions ??

1 universe has a brahma.Its a post.There are infinite universes.So there are countless brahma's.Every 1 of them is under maya.Even brahma cannot cross the outer covering of the universe on his own merit.

The infinitude of universes are cast into the Mahat tattva,when the Primeval expansion of Godhead,Purusha,Maha vishnu exhales.During His breath,these universes remain manifested and dissolve in His being again,when He inhales.This is MAHAPRALAYA...this same Mahavishnu is glorified in the shruti...is any thing registering in the ignorant minds ? If u cant undrstand such a simple explanation,u shud be ashamed of your grasping power.

And then 1 person goes ahead and says that brahma is equal to mahavishnu.Ha !

Mahavishnu is the same purusha who,when He wills so,goes and lies down in the mahat tattva.He is the one who disturbes the mundane,limited conceptional energy of maya,in the form of His glance.This glance is knwn as Shambhu.This is the verdict of the veda...its quite easy to understand although it is grasped only by a fortunate few.

[ranjeetmore]

for all those endorsing the ''all is brahm'' nonsense....

 

Shankaracharya has laid down 4 prerequisites for any person who wishes to realize the absolute formless.

''Shanto dant uparatastitikshu:''

The first step- shant.Shant means sham.

It means full control over the mind.CONTROL OVER MIND,NOT THE SENSES.Any yogi can control his senses on his own merit.None could control their mind.Vishvamitra created a planet by wielding his yogic power.Such a great yogi.But he was so jealous of a bhakta,Vashishta,that he killed his 100 sons.Look at the state of his mind.It is IMPOSSIBLE TO CONTROL THE MIND ON YOUR OWN MERIT.

Thats why shankaracharya HIMSELF STATES FURTHER:

''Shudhayati na antar aatma krsna padambhoj bhaktimriteh:''

Without pure devotion to Lord krsna's feet,the mind CAN NEVER BE PURIFIED...

What a joke...the mayavadis are such a big joke.Shankaracharya,aadi jagadguru,is saying that the first step to brahmjynana CANNOT BE ACHIEVED WITHOUT SRI KRSNA BHAKTI..and today all these jnanis are posing as jeevan mukta...maya mukta...what nonsense..Pple who think that they can purify their mind without bhakti are the GREATEST FOOLS..Pra mudha.

[bhaktajan]

 

Thanks for quoting someone else again. Please, refrain from writing anything yourself. Your writings are unitelligible.

 

Listen Son, you are not qualified to study Vedänta . . . just serve a superior Vaishnava--that is all.

You are dismissed.

CC Adi 2.1:

I offer my obeisances to Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu, by whose mercy even an ignorant child can swim across the ocean of conclusive truth, which is full of the crocodiles of various theories.

CC Adi 2.96:

“One who knows the real feature of Çré Kåñëa and His three different energies cannot remain ignorant about Him.

Adi 7.71-72:

Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu replied to Prakäçänanda Sarasvaté,

“My dear sir, kindly hear the reason.

My spiritual master considered Me a fool,

and therefore he chastised ffice:smarttags" />Me.

“‘You are a fool,’ he said. ‘You are not qualified to study Vedänta philosophy,

and therefore You must always chant the holy name of Kåñëa.

This is the essence of all mantras, or Vedic hymns.

Ädi 7.96P

Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu presented himself in this way:

“I am a great fool and do not have knowledge of right and wrong.

In order to understand the real meaning of the Vedänta-sütra,

I never followed the explanation of the Çaìkara-sampradäya or Mäyävädé sannyäsés.

I’m very much afraid of the illogical arguments of the Mäyävädé philosophers.

Therefore I think I have no authority regarding their explanations of the Vedänta-sütra.

I firmly believe that simply chanting the holy name of the Lord can remove all misconceptions of the material world.

I believe that simply by chanting the holy name of the Lord one can attain the shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord. In this age of quarrel and disagreement, the chanting of the holy names is the only way to liberation from the material clutches.

“By chanting the holy name,” Lord Caitanya continued, “I became almost mad. However, after inquiring from My spiritual master I have come to the conclusion that instead of striving for achievement in the four principles of religiosity [dharma], economic development [artha], sense gratification [käma] and liberation [mokña], it is better if somehow or other one develops transcendental love of Godhead.

That is the greatest success in life. One who has attained love of Godhead chants and dances by his nature, not caring for the public.” This stage of life is known as bhägavata-jévana, or the life of a devotee.

Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu continued, “I never chanted and danced to make an artificial show. I dance and chant because I firmly believe in the words of My spiritual master. Although the Mäyävädé philosophers do not like this chanting and dancing, I nevertheless perform it on the strength of his words. Therefore it is to be concluded that I deserve very little credit for these activities of chanting and dancing, for they are being done automatically by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.”

[ranjeetmore]

okay,lets supose some person achieves purification of mind through single minded(ananya bhakti)devotion to Sri krsna.What's next?

Lets see what shankaracharya himself has to say.

 

''tadnugrah: haitukenaiva chavidnyanena moksha siddhir bhavitu marhati''

 

Brahm jnana can be attained only by the MERCY OF BHAGAVAN.The knowledge/jnana which the jeeva has attained on his own after millions of years of sadhna IS USELESS.Bhagvan bestows His mercy/krpa shakti on the person WHOSE MIND IS CMPLETELY PURE.

Its quite mind boggling why he shud say that..shankaracharya's brahm is inert.It can neither bestow any 'krpa' nor can it purify any1's mind.Shankara himself states that

'oh my Brahm ! You are inert.' he has used the word 'udaseen' in this context...how wil his inert brahm bestow grace??

Hence,shuddhayati na antaraatma..krsna..bhaktimriteh.

This is the link...how many here,who are riding on the advaita bandwagon,know that shankaracharya CRIED in bhava,so that he could attain vision of lord krsna ? ?

Its ignorance,i must say,on ur behalf that you make such imbecile comments without even knowing what the aadi jagadguru says.

[shvu]

Yet another comedian jumps in with some fresh new comedy...

 

 

okay,lets supose some person achieves purification of mind through single minded(ananya bhakti)devotion to Sri krsna.What's next?

Lets see what shankaracharya himself has to say.

''tadnugrah: haitukenaiva chavidnyanena moksha siddhir bhavitu marhati''

Brahm jnana can be attained only by the MERCY OF BHAGAVAN.The knowledge/jnana which the jeeva has attained on his own after millions of years of sadhna IS USELESS.Bhagvan bestows His mercy/krpa shakti on the person WHOSE MIND IS CMPLETELY PURE.

 

Calling thy bluff. Provide a proper reference or stop posting bogus material on Shankara.

 

 

Its quite mind boggling why he shud say that..shankaracharya's brahm is inert.It can neither bestow any 'krpa' nor can it purify any1's mind.Shankara himself states that

'oh my Brahm ! You are inert.' he has used the word 'udaseen' in this context...how wil his inert brahm bestow grace??

Hence,shuddhayati na antaraatma..krsna..bhaktimriteh.

More nonsense of course. Shankara never said anything like that and you are welcome to prove me wrong. As you raised this topic, the burder is on you to provide references so someone will take you seriously.

 

 

This is the link...how many here,who are riding on the advaita bandwagon,know that shankaracharya CRIED in bhava,so that he could attain vision of lord krsna ? ?

Shows you have no idea what Advaita is - which should not come as a surprise to anyone.

 

 

Its ignorance,i must say,on ur behalf that you make such imbecile comments without even knowing what the aadi jagadguru says.

Interesting. So as you are the one who knows what Shankara the Aadi jagadguru "really" says and as you think he is right, you must be an Advaitin!

 

Cheers

[srikanthdk71]

 

 

Its quite mind boggling why he shud say that..shankaracharya's brahm is inert.It can neither bestow any 'krpa' nor can it purify any1's mind.Shankara himself states that

'oh my Brahm ! You are inert.' he has used the word 'udaseen' in this context...how wil his inert brahm bestow grace??

Hence,shuddhayati na antaraatma..krsna..bhaktimriteh.

This is the link...how many here,who are riding on the advaita bandwagon,know that shankaracharya CRIED in bhava,so that he could attain vision of lord krsna ? ?

 

 

1. Bhraman is in Equilibrium. Not inert. It is there in Jaagrit, Swapna and Sushupti.Your choice of words is incorrect.

2. It can neither bestow any Kripa nor can purify any ones mind. Yes. Absolutely right. Kripa to whom? It is already pure. Bestowing a kripa comes from the mind. Not the conciousness. Your own mind is not willing to accept that there is conciousnes within you which you are trying to find outside you.

3. Sanaatan means that was there, is there and will be there. Krishna was not there, was there and is no more there. So, what is there now within you? Questions about the past? Leave it. Hold that one that was there, is there and will be there. That is YOU. The experiencer. Realise yourself else you will get lost in glorifying the past. You would have forgotten your present and presence.

[Amlesh]

 

1. Bhraman is in Equilibrium. Not inert. It is there in Jaagrit, Swapna and Sushupti.Your choice of words is incorrect.

2. It can neither bestow any Kripa nor can purify any ones mind. Yes. Absolutely right. Kripa to whom? It is already pure. Bestowing a kripa comes from the mind. Not the conciousness. Your own mind is not willing to accept that there is conciousnes within you which you are trying to find outside you.

3. Sanaatan means that was there, is there and will be there. Krishna was not there, was there and is no more there. So, what is there now within you? Questions about the past? Leave it. Hold that one that was there, is there and will be there. That is YOU. The experiencer. Realise yourself else you will get lost in glorifying the past. You would have forgotten your present and presence.

 

Krishna proclaimed in the Gita, "There was not a time when I never existed or you never existed and there won't be a time when you'll cease to exist."

 

The difference is that He, Krishna, the basis of Brahman knows your past , present and future, your body and the body of others which is not the case for us, the servant of the supreme.

 

Dear srikanthdk71, if you cannot see that the Veda's conclusion is that Hari is Supreme, don't think others to be blind.

[bija]

It is easy for some, who have certain realization in consciousness, to discount Krsna as temporary (or even mythical). But maybe a point is missed, if we discount personalism, considering it simply temporary. Sri prabhu said in another thread, even vaikuntha is an obstacle or stumbling point on the path - unless we have experienced vaikuntha can we say such a thing.

 

What if such comments and judgements are also from limited realization. What if personaility can also be purely spiritual? I would say deep realization on that subject would have far reaching consequence and benefit for the people of this world. Deeply fulfilling the purpose of love.

 

I think those who discount personalism, as a stumbling block, due to their own bias in self realization...are casting away a very rare gem - limiting truth by their own bias. Maybe if such a person had some realization on potential of a human being realized in personalism...they would not be so rash in their judgement. Why do we limit the absolute, and say all personal states are temporary? Even if personalism is temporary...I would suggest it is a grace and gift, for our well being - from a higher intelligence.

 

But ofcourse we each manifest our ways, and each of us choose the state of consciousness that is most fulflling for us. If we have found our deepest satisfaction, maybe we would choose not to look elsewhere.

 

Discounting grace and gift...can be foolish gospel. Why? Because it does not see that many teachings apply to those at various levels of conscious awareness...enabling the individuals to gradually arise to deeper awareness. The vedic literature was written in such a way, by highly intelligent sages, whose hearts where full of compassion. And they could see very clearly if each individual could progress...the whole society would be blessed. Speakers with bias do not see this wisdom.

 

I could go on to talk about sense of gratitude in relation to grace and gift...maybe another day.

 

y.s.

[Amlesh]

 

It is easy for some, who have certain realization in consciousness, to discount Krsna as temporary (or even mythical). But maybe a point is missed, if we discount personalism, considering it simply temporary. Sri prabhu said in another thread, even vaikuntha is an obstacle or stumbling point on the path - unless we have experienced vaikuntha can we say such a thing.

 

What if such comments and judgements are also from limited realization. What if personaility can also be purely spiritual? I would say deep realization on that subject would have far reaching consequence and benefit for the people of this world. Deeply fulfilling the purpose of love.

 

I think those who discount personalism, as a stumbling block, due to their own bias in self realization...are casting away a very rare gem - limiting truth by their own bias. Maybe if such a person had some realization on potential of a human being realized in personalism...they would not be so rash in their judgement. Why do we limit the absolute, and say all personal states are temporary? Even if personalism is temporary...I would suggest it is a grace and gift, for our well being - from a higher intelligence.

 

But ofcourse we each manifest our ways, and each of us choose the state of consciousness that is most fulflling for us. If we have found our deepest satisfaction, maybe we would choose not to look elsewhere.

 

Discounting grace and gift...can be foolish gospel. Why? Because it does not see that many teachings apply to those at various levels of conscious awareness...enabling the individuals to gradually arise to deeper awareness. The vedic literature was written in such a way, by highly intelligent sages, whose hearts where full of compassion. And they could see very clearly if each individual could progress...the whole society would be blessed. Speakers with bias do not see this wisdom.

 

Thanks bija, your response is always free from ego:) and is full in substance as well.

[ranjeetmore]

shvu(what kinda name is that anyway ?) 'since you raised the point,the burder of proof is on you'

Your so pathetic.

Anyway.Shankaracharya tels his mother,

''shudhayati na antaraatma krsna padam bhoj bhaktimriteh:''

- prabodha shudhakara.

 

''Kamyopasana yarthayanti

anudinam kincit phalam svepsitam

Kecit svargam athapavargam apare

Yogadi yajnadibhih

Asmakam yadunandamghri

Yugala dhyanavadha anarthinam

Kim lokena damena kim nrpatina

Svargapavarga aizca kim ?''

 

-prabodha sudhakara

 

Foolish pple desire and thus work for svarga(material heaven) and moksha(sayujya).I DO NOT WANT ANY OF THAT NONSENSE ! !

I want to simply be immersed in the sweet remembrance of lord Sri krsna.What is the value of svarga and moksa(apavarga) for prema bhaktas of the Lord ?

 

Shvu,here's ur 'burder' of proof..seriously,get a life.

[ranjeetmore]

pavitranam pavitram yo

Mangalanam ca mangalam

Daivatam devatanam ca

Bhutanam yo vyayah pita

 

-vishnu sahasranama.(10th sloka)

 

Lord Hari is the most purifying of all purifiers and it is He who gives the power to remove sinful reactions to the ganges and other pilgrimage places.He is the most auspicious of all auspicious personalities(shiva means auspicious one).He is the one who gives to ganesha and others,the power to remove obstacles.He is the most worshipable person,superior to Brahma and all the demigods.He is the eternal,original father of all living entities.

 

''Shradha bhaktyor bhavepi bhagwannaam sankirtanam samastam duritam nashyatityuktam..''

- shankaracharya's commentary on the above sloka.

 

It means,'Even if one chants the Holy and spiritual names of God without devotion,he is purified and attains to his goal.'

Wait,this is the vishnu sahasranama...shankarcharya commented on this one ? Wonder wher is his comentary of shiva sahasranama...

Lost,u mite say..? I say, - non existent.

[ranjeetmore]

shankaracharya's salutations,before the actual commentary on the BHAGVAD Gita.

3.

I salute thee,o Krsna.Thou art the refuge of the ocean born,laxmi and all of those who take shelter at your lotus feet...salutations to Thee,O Supreme Lord .

 

4

The upanishads are a herd of cows.Lord krsna,the eternal son of Nanda,is a cowherd.Arjuna is the calf.The supreme nectar of Gita is the milk.And the wise man of purified intellect is the drinker.

[shankaracharya is 'baap' of your mayavadis today.He is saying only pple of purified intelect can enjoy the nectarian Gita.Your baap,the jagatguru,is declaring that fools like you can never understand the Gita.]

 

7.

May the spotless lotus of Mahabharta that grows on the waters of the words of Vyasadeva and of wich Bhagwad Gita is the irresistably sweet fragrance and it's tales of heroer,the fully bloomed petals,opened fully by the talk of Lord sri Hari,Who destroys the sins of Kaliyuga.

 

8

My salutations to lord Krsna,the embodiment of Supreme Bliss.

[anando brahmeti vyajanath

Anandadhyeva khalvimani bhutani jayante

Anandena jatani jeevanti

Anandam prayantyabhisam vishanti.

-taitereya upanishad,3.3,4 &5.

This conveys that Ananda is Brahm.Anand is the cause and refuge of jeevas/bhutas.

This supreme bliss is known as ananda....krsnah,saccidananda vigraha.]

 

9.

Salutations to that Supreme shining one,whm the creator,brahma,varuna,indra,rudra,marut and all the diving beings praise with hymns.Whose glories are sung by the vedas.Of Whome,the singers of Sama,sing.Of whose glories,the upanishads sing in full choir.Whom the yogis see in their heart of hearts,absorbed in perfect samadhi.And whose limits are not known to any demigod or demon.To Him,the Supreme God,krsna,be all my salutations.Him we salute ! Him we salute ! Him we salute !

[Amlesh]

Bhaja Govindam Bhaja Govindam muddha mate... Adi Shankaracharya

 

I suppose He was referring Muddha to his own students, those who believe in the impersonal form of God...

[ranjeetmore]

THAT, is shankaracharya's take on Sri krsna.If you cant understand it(lets face it,none of you are even a particle of dust on shankaracharya's feet.So you wnt understand his bhava.),then atleast go hide your faces where you wont be chastised for your ignorance.

 

Oh and by the way,

''tad nugrah haituke naiva chavijnanena moksha siddhirbhavitu marhati''

Is the commentary of Shankaracharya on the Brahm sutra,

Parattu tachhaute:

 

You think you knw advaita better than Shankaracharya ? Wow,here's the 6th jagagdguru...

[ranjeetmore]

 

1. Bhraman is in Equilibrium. Not inert. It is there in Jaagrit, Swapna and Sushupti.Your choice of words is incorrect.

2. It can neither bestow any Kripa nor can purify any ones mind. Yes. Absolutely right. Kripa to whom? It is already pure. Bestowing a kripa comes from the mind. Not the conciousness. Your own mind is not willing to accept that there is conciousnes within you which you are trying to find outside you.

3. Sanaatan means that was there, is there and will be there. Krishna was not there, was there and is no more there. So, what is there now within you? Questions about the past? Leave it. Hold that one that was there, is there and will be there. That is YOU. The experiencer. Realise yourself else you will get lost in glorifying the past. You would have forgotten your present and presence.

 

 

1.Brahm is in equilibrium ?Tha ts ur understanding of Brahm ?

But shankaracharya says that Brahm is inert.It is without any form,name,qualities,abode and body.It is.Brahm HAS/DISPLAYS NO QUALITY WHATSOEVER OTHER THAN THAT OF SATTA.it is satta matra brahm.

Shankaracharya's brahm has the only potency of preserving its Supremacy.No other display/transformation of power is experienced.

It cant hear u.Shankara prays,O Brahm,enter my heart and purify me.But HOW WIL BRAHM ENTER ?AND ISNT HE ALREADY IN YOUR HEART ? Jagadguru kripaluji passes a light joke in this regard,''shankaracharyaji ka screw dheela ho gaya...''

 

2. I dnt think u understud it at all.Shankara says,' that liberation is attained by jnana which Brahm wil bestow.'The jnana that is cultivated by the sadhak is completely useless when he has to cross maya and mahan.The jeeva CANNOT CROSS PRAKRITI AND MAHAN ON HIS OWN.He needs an entity that has full control over maya.And the Supreme Lord challenges in the Gita,''No one can eliminate Maya,Arjun.She is My divine energy.''

That is bhagwan's challenge to your face.

Forget liberation,the jnani cannot even eliminate Vidya maya.Only the bhakta can eliminate vidya maya,by the mercy of the Supreme Lord,in His feature of Bhagwan.Bhagvan and Paramatma are the 2 features of God that show display of all potencies.Only these two features of God can bestow svarupa shakti on the purified soul.Paramatma is the localised aspect,the goal of al sacrifices viz. The four handed Lord Vishnu.Bhagvan is the origin,cause,basis and proprietor of all that be.He is the basis of Brahmjyoti also.Bhagvan is the last word is transcendence and shows full display of all the potencies.Sri krsna is the selfsame proprietor of all that be.

 

3. As 4 ur thinking that the form of Sri krsna has a begining,a midle and end,arises frm ur gross ignorance.The main problem with voidists is that they think their inteligence is vry developed.But its actualy very impure.You pple hav no knwledge of the pure spiritual truths revealed by those unalloyed souls about the factual kingdom of God.You all are thinking...look,Krsna had a birth,He grew,and He died.But has any of got even the fortune to understand the leelas and pastimes of the Supreme lord ? ignorance is not an excuse..

[shvu]

And the idiot refuses to remove his foot from his mouth...Well…

 

shvu(what kinda name is that anyway ?) 'since you raised the point,the burder of proof is on you'

Your so pathetic.

Right...asking for evidence is considered "pathetic" in the world of Hare Krishnas - we know that already through our association with some of your distinguished peers.

 

shvu is not sanskrit - like Hindu. So I guess that makes it an invalid name per HK logic unlike ranjeetmore which is found all over the Rigveda.

 

Anyway.Shankaracharya tels his mother,

''shudhayati na antaraatma krsna padam bhoj bhaktimriteh:''

- prabodha shudhakara.

''Kamyopasana yarthayanti

anudinam kincit phalam svepsitam

Kecit svargam athapavargam apare

Yogadi yajnadibhih

Asmakam yadunandamghri

Yugala dhyanavadha anarthinam

Kim lokena damena kim nrpatina

Svargapavarga aizca kim ?''

-prabodha sudhakara

Foolish pple desire and thus work for svarga(material heaven) and moksha(sayujya).I DO NOT WANT ANY OF THAT NONSENSE ! !

I want to simply be immersed in the sweet remembrance of lord Sri krsna.What is the value of svarga and moksa(apavarga) for prema bhaktas of the Lord ?

Shvu,here's ur 'burder' of proof..seriously,get a life.

And as expected, you failed to deliver. This garbage you posted is not a work by Shankara as can be verified on advaita-vedanta.org and Wikipedia, among other sites.

So what you accomplished thus far is to quote a bogus text (in typical Hare Krishna fashion) and try to pass off Gaudiya theology as Shankara’s Advaita!

And anyway, if Shankara’s Mayavada is the same as a Hare Krishna philosophy, then why do HKs have a problem with his Mayavada? Confused as usual?

But I have to admit, your approach is quite entertaining. Almost as close to Bhakti Vinoda’s fabrications on Madhva & Ramanuja. Keep it up and in a year or two, you should be able to concoct stories as good as Bhakti Vinoda himself.

Cheers

[shvu]

 

Bhaja Govindam Bhaja Govindam muddha mate... Adi Shankaracharya

 

I suppose He was referring Muddha to his own students, those who believe in the impersonal form of God...

 

And who taught these students about the "impersonal form" of God as you put it? Can you suppose something on this?

 

While you are at it, try & understand that "impersonal form" is an oxymoron. That would be a good way to start exercising the brain - something that is going into serious disuse in your affiliation.

 

Cheers

[RadhaMukunda]

This is not the way spiritual converatation should take place. If you can't even respect the other person, why are you talking with him in the first place about religion? What use is debate if no one is willing to learn anything from others? You might as well spend your time talking to a parrot.

[bhaktajan]

 

 

Listen Son, you are not qualified to study Vedänta . . . just serve a superior Vaishnava--that is all.

You are dismissed.

CC Adi 2.1:

I offer my obeisances to Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu, by whose mercy even an ignorant child can swim across the ocean of conclusive truth, which is full of the crocodiles of various theories.

CC Adi 2.96:

“One who knows the real feature of Çré Kåñëa and His three different energies cannot remain ignorant about Him.

Adi 7.71-72:

Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu replied to Prakäçänanda Sarasvaté,

“My dear sir, kindly hear the reason.

My spiritual master considered Me a fool,

and therefore he chastised ffice:smarttags" />Me.

“‘You are a fool,’ he said. ‘You are not qualified to study Vedänta philosophy,

and therefore You must always chant the holy name of Kåñëa.

This is the essence of all mantras, or Vedic hymns.

Ädi 7.96P

Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu presented himself in this way:

“I am a great fool and do not have knowledge of right and wrong.

In order to understand the real meaning of the Vedänta-sütra,

I never followed the explanation of the Çaìkara-sampradäya or Mäyävädé sannyäsés.

I’m very much afraid of the illogical arguments of the Mäyävädé philosophers.

Therefore I think I have no authority regarding their explanations of the Vedänta-sütra.

I firmly believe that simply chanting the holy name of the Lord can remove all misconceptions of the material world.

I believe that simply by chanting the holy name of the Lord one can attain the shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord. In this age of quarrel and disagreement, the chanting of the holy names is the only way to liberation from the material clutches.

“By chanting the holy name,” Lord Caitanya continued, “I became almost mad. However, after inquiring from My spiritual master I have come to the conclusion that instead of striving for achievement in the four principles of religiosity [dharma], economic development [artha], sense gratification [käma] and liberation [mokña], it is better if somehow or other one develops transcendental love of Godhead.

That is the greatest success in life. One who has attained love of Godhead chants and dances by his nature, not caring for the public.” This stage of life is known as bhägavata-jévana, or the life of a devotee.

Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu continued, “I never chanted and danced to make an artificial show. I dance and chant because I firmly believe in the words of My spiritual master. Although the Mäyävädé philosophers do not like this chanting and dancing, I nevertheless perform it on the strength of his words. Therefore it is to be concluded that I deserve very little credit for these activities of chanting and dancing, for they are being done automatically by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.”

 

RadhaMukunda, I appologise for saying you should not study Vedanta.

 

It is all you have available to you if you do not adhere to Krishna-Lila as the Conclusion of the Vedas.

 

I cited Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's circumstance where Hari-nama-sankirtana is annunciated as the Yuga-Dharma/Tapasya.

 

But if you do not accept this axiom then please at least study Vedanta-- it is thus your only refuge, in myown opinion.

 

Bhaktajan

[RadhaMukunda]

Bhaktajan, what makes you think that studying vedanta is all I do? Never mind that.

 

Bhakti takes various forms and different people can practice one or more forms. In the bhagavata purana navadha bhakti is described. (sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam arcanam vandanam dasyam sakhyam atma-nivedanam) Kirtan is one form of bhakti, but the not the only one. It is indeed the easiest path, everyone who is able to speak can pronounce the names of Krishna like Madhava, Govinda, Damodara, Narayana.

 

In his bhakti sutra Narada Muni mentions different definitions of Bhakti from Vyasa, Garga and Shandilya. Narada however gives the highest and purest definition of bhakti, bhakti like the vraja gopikas had. For ordinary people this is hard to achieve. The other definitions are also valid and easier to practice for the majority of people.

 

"Srila Vyāsadeva, the son of Parashara Muni, says that is fond attachment for worshiping the Lord in various ways." (Narada Bhakti Sutra 16)

 

"Garga Muni says that bhakti is fondness for narrations about the Lord, by the Lord, and so on." (Narada Bhakti Sutra 17)

 

"Śāṇḍilya says that bhakti results from one's removing all obstructions to taking pleasure in the Supreme Self." (Narada Bhakti Sutra 18)

 

"Nārada, however, says that bhakti consists of offering one's every act to the Supreme Lord and feeling extreme distress in forgetting Him." (Narada Bhakti Sutra 19)

 

This last definition is a state of being that is even higher than the jnana of vedantins, the samadhi of yogis and the rituals of pujaris. In their previous lifes the vraja gopikas were rishis who did very hard penance for very long periods of time. After that they achieved gopi prem. We are just ordinary devotees who pick our path according our tastes. We might have wordly desires, we might forget Krishna doing our work. Who can actually claim to have reached the state of the gopis, or that of bhakta prahlada?

 

The difference in philosophical belief in dvaita and advaita was also present among the rishis. Kasyapa and Shandilya held different opinions on vedanta. It's naive to think we forum members with our limited knowledge will solve this problem for once and for all. We can still argue, debate and discuss, but with respect for each other.

[ranjeetmore]

radha mukunda,its just 1 snag i hit...gopis were not TAPASVIS..tapasya is rigorous,selfish and often mundane.NO.vraja gopis are like the 'dadis' of mahatmas.

The bhagvatam describes the state of bhava that Radharani is in,''There is fire.That fire has immediate smoke at its tip and a swirl of smoke many feet above the flames.The word used for the particle of this swirl of smoke is 'lavlesha'.

The lavlesh of the conflagration emanating from the fever of seperation that Radharani experiences for Mohana is so DEVASTATING,THAT IF She were not to subdue it with yogmaya,if She were to release that particle of smoke,THE ENTIRE CREATION CONSISTING OF INFINITUDE OF UNIVERSES WOULD BE REDUCED TO MERE ASH.''

Its a greater affair than the mahapralaya.This is 'veeraha'/separation.Gaurang Mahaprabhu was on this level.

That is madan bhava.That is the level of Radharani.Most rasiks believe She is the main entity on the Mahabhava level.

[ranjeetmore]

these gopis are infinite classes above any demigod.

Lord shiva was yearning to becme a gopi...to experience madhurya rasa with Shyamasundara...lalitha dressed him up...gave her blessings and thus bhagvan shankar got to experience the topmost rasa of the Supreme..he is thus cald as gopesvara.

[suchandra]

Listening to the Holy Name from the lips of someone who's innocent...

 

 

 

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[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Namaste Darkwarrior.

 

Skanda Upanishad solves this dilemma for us when in verses 8 and 9 it states

However I understand Sri Vaishnavas don't consider this Upanishad to be authentic, yes?

 

Regardless, these arguments about what the Vedas mean, the authenticity of certain Upanishads, whether Shankaracharya was a Vaishnava etc. have been done to death already, and I agree with you that we should not hijack this thread and turn it into another one of those endless debates.

 

Darkwarrior, don't Sri Vaishnavas accept Mahabharata as authentic shastra?:

 

And Arjuna said, 'O Kapardin, O chief of all gods, O destroyer of the eyes of Bhaga, O god of gods, O Mahadeva, O thou of blue throat, O thou of matted locks, I know thee as the Cause of all causes. O thou of three eyes, O lord of all! Thou art the refuge of all the gods! This universe hath sprung from thee. Thou art incapable of being vanquished by the three worlds of the celestials, the Asuras, and men. Thou art Shiva in the form of Vishnu, and Vishnu in the form of Shiva. Thou destroyedest of old the great sacrifice of Daksha. O Hari-Rudra, I bow to thee. Thou hast an eye on thy forehead. O Sarva, O thou that rainest objects of desire, O bearer of the trident, O wielder of the Pinaka, O Surya, O thou of pure body, O Creator of all, I bow to thee. O lord of all created things, I worship thee to obtain thy grace. Thou art the lord of the Ganas, the source of universal blessing, the Cause of the causes of the universe. Thou art beyond the foremost of male beings, thou art the highest, thou art the subtlest, O Hara! O illustrious Sankara, it behoveth thee to pardon my fault. It was even to obtain a sight of thyself that I came to this great mountain, which is dear to thee and which is the excellent abode of ascetics. Thou art worshipped of all worlds. O lord, I worship thee to obtain thy grace. Let not this rashness of mine be regarded as a fault--this combat in which I was engaged with thee from ignorance. O Sankara, I seek thy protection. Pardon me all I have done."

--Mahabharata: Vana Parva: Kairata Parva: Section 39