Why Advaita appeals to the Modern Mind

[cbrahma]

 

If you can't fight them, join them, eh? SP was smart enough to co-opt Sankara, thanks to the latter's immense popularity.

SP didn't need popularity, to steal Sankara's thunder. He was just noting that Sankara wasn't a true impersonalist.

[cbrahma]

 

I am coming from the point of jnana-mishra-bhakti yogin.

 

I am happy to share my life online. My body will become dust...maybe the internet will last longer. I am using this forum as my spiritual diary while enjoying the company here.

 

Oneday I will write my journal from my daily thoughts maybe. I have nothing to defend...the body will be dust in due course. (but dont cross me )

Are you suffering from a serious illness? (not sarcastic).

[bija]

 

If you're not about the truth how can you be spiritual? by cbrahma

Truth is truth cbrahma...the most complete science on love I have encountered is Gaudiya Vaisnavism. For me it does not need defending. I have a saying, 'god is great....so great he does not need defending...because he is a person, he just needs understanding'.

 

My encounter is experience....this encounter does not need defending either...as it is temporary.

[bija]

 

Are you suffering from a serious illness? (not sarcastic). cbrahma

I have an illness which is degenerative yes. One of my best friends passed away at the age of fifty (two months ago) from the disease. I am twelve years younger than him.

 

This radically changed my attachment to the body....over the last five or six years....as I journey on way way as a householder. I love life cbrahma...and do not fear death...because my faith is deep, its not so text book. I have been searching and seeking for years - and am grateful for that gift. We are fortunate hey....

 

I am very eccentric in life cbrahma....my good friends are too lol. I adore spirituality. Say no more.

[cbrahma]

 

Truth is truth cbrahma...the most complete science on love I have encountered is Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

 

My encounter is experience....this encounter does not need defending...as it is temporary.

I thought you were calling it a night.

[Dark Warrior]

 

SP didn't need popularity, to steal Sankara's thunder. He was just noting that Sankara wasn't a true impersonalist.

 

Sri Adi Sankara was a true advaitin, just like Sri Ramanuja was a true Vishishtadvaitin and just like Sri Madhva was a true Dvaitin.

 

Hare Krishnas mistake Adi Sankara's poetry on Krishna as an indication that he had a 'change of heart'. Nope, praising the attributes of Saguna Brahman, ie, Bhakti as the means, is part of Advaita. And Sri Sankara was an exceptional devotee of Saguna Brahman, ie, Vishnu. He was not a 'covered' personalist, just a Vaishnava advaitin.

[jinglebells]

 

I thought you were calling it a night.

 

Why do you feel impelled to fight with everyone, cbrahma? Why this fanaticism? Maybe, this is why people hate religion, they just can't tolerate the fanaticism of most religious people.

[bija]

 

I thought you were calling it a night. by cbrahma

I was...but its only 9.30 here so better to discuss God than TV. Audarya Fellowship junkie...fun hey!

 

I understand how you enjoy debate here....its good fun.

[jinglebells]

 

SP didn't need popularity, to steal Sankara's thunder. He was just noting that Sankara wasn't a true impersonalist.

 

Sankara was not an impersonalist, because SP says so. Jesus was a Vaishnava, because SP says so. Man never went to the moon, because SP says so.

 

Do you see what I am getting at here? Try to think for yourself, cbrahma, you claim to be an educated man. I am seriously beginning to doubt it.

[jinglebells]

 

I have an illness which is degenerative yes. One of my best firends pasted away at the age of fifty (two months ago) from the disease. I am twelve years younger than him.

 

This radically changed my attachment to the body....over the last five or six years....as I journey on way way as a householder. I love life cbrahma...and do not fear death...becuase my faith is deep.

 

I am very eccentric in life cbrahma....my good friends are too lol. I adore spirituality. Say no more.

 

What's this disease called, if you don't mind my asking?

[cbrahma]

 

Why do you feel impelled to fight with everyone, cbrahma? Why this fanaticism? Maybe, this is why people hate religion, they just can't tolerate the fanaticism of most religious people.

I don't fight with everyone. I ignore a lot of people. Gimme a break parroting that cheap argument. Besides it is irrelevant to the discussion. I'm hardly religious and nobody considers me a fanatic. It's just that few people, especially religious ones know how to debate logically and validly so it takes a while to make the point.

[bija]

Liver disease jingle bells. I might live long...but life is for getting ready to go back home...isnt it. That is what Prabhupada presses home. The Hare Krsna movement is awesome. Most of my mates enjoy coming around and hearing kirtan on the pc...and see the deities. They are western christian fellas (old hippies).

[cbrahma]

 

I have an illness which is degenerative yes. One of my best friends passed away at the age of fifty (two months ago) from the disease. I am twelve years younger than him.

 

This radically changed my attachment to the body....over the last five or six years....as I journey on way way as a householder. I love life cbrahma...and do not fear death...because my faith is deep, its not so text book. I have been searching and seeking for years - and am grateful for that gift. We are fortunate hey....

 

I am very eccentric in life cbrahma....my good friends are too lol. I adore spirituality. Say no more.

Well it's a kind of mercy I suppose.

[jinglebells]

 

Liver disease jingle bells. I might live long...but life is for getting ready to go back home...isnt it. That is what Prabhupada presses home. The Hare Krsna movement is awesome. Most of my mates enjoy coming around and hearing kirtan on the pc...and see the deities. They are western christian fellas (old hippies).

 

Sorry to hear all this. I hope you'll be fine. Best wishes!

[Amlesh]

I admire your ways bija, you appear to be the happiest and less disturbed than the majority of those who are enjoying a good health.

 

Others should learn from you.

 

Only 3 people have coolness in their post: you, theist and bishadi.

[bija]

 

I really don't enjoy debate. You're drinking Theist Kool-aid. I am interested in philosophy and the truth. My BS meter is very sensitive and there is a lot of it when it comes to religion. by cbrahma

Do you know what a jnana-mishra-bhakti yogin is?

 

And that it is possible to be a follower of Sri Caitanya being such. As long as we hold ananya-suddha-bhakti as the ideal.

 

Naam Prabhu (Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna) will take care of the rest.

 

 

I admire your ways bija, you appear to be the happiest and less disturbed than the majority of those who are enjoying a good health. by amlesh

Enough about me Amlesh....but I will tell you this. I lived with a major health condition for a decade from the age of 24....it manifested grace in my life. So that matures you quickly into the nature of suffering. It was intense...but the greatest gift I have experienced. The devotee sees this way...and he can see the inner growth. I am fortunate in this regard.

 

Meeting Gurudeva and receiving diksha into Gaura Naam....quickly manifested more realization. Guru mercy hey! Nitaai-Gaura Naam.

 

 

Bishadi is a lovely man...very realized in many ways. Theist has lived life...and I admire him in this regard.

[Amlesh]

 

Enough about me Amlesh....but I will tell you this. I lived with a major health condition for a decade from the age of 24....it manifested grace in my life. So that matures you quickly into the nature of suffering.

 

Meeting Gurudeva and receiving diksha into Gaura Naam....quickly manifested more realization. Guru mercy hey! Nitaai-Gaura Naam.

 

 

Bishadi is a lovely man...very realized in many ways. Theist has lived life...and I admire him in this regard.

 

Yep, you are right. That will not change anything, you are nothing but the spirit soul, or better, a near and dear of Nitaai-Gaura, no other identity.

 

It's time to change the topic.

 

Jai Sita-Ram.

Jai Hanuman:)

[cbrahma]

 

Do you know what a jnani-mishra-bhakti yogin is?

 

And that it is possible to be a follower of Sri Caitanya being such. As long as we hold ananya-suddha-bhakti as the ideal.

 

Naam Prabhu (Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna) will take care of the rest.

 

No I don't know what that is. But you are obviously a jnani philosophical speculator and to some extent so am I. Prabhupada was involved in serious debating, not because he liked debating, but to strike away the mental tricks that blocked the truth and people can get really stubborn in their attachments to illusory ideas.

The problem is where does debating stop and service begin. On the one hand there are those who distinguish themselves by their sadhana, following all the rules down to every detail. On the other hand there are those who are more interested in knowledge.

I call attention to the following letter by somebody I consider to be a first rate bhakta.

 

 

 

Our reply to Brahma dasa was as follows:

 

• Dear Brahma dasa,
  
  Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
  
  You wrote: "It's one thing for a person with little in the way of practical devotional engagement to participate in these never-ending internet arguments, but quite another for a devotee who is fully involved in seva and sadhana to do so. Swami is already overloaded with service responsibilities, including answering the dozens of Sanga questions that are always pending. He really has no time to dialogue with critics on your site."
  
  I have to say, I find your reply to be quite arrogant and condescending. By what means do you determine in advance that anyone who would try to engage the Swami has "little in the way of practical devotional engagement"?
  
  As for the "never-ending internet arguments", the tradition of debate in our Vaisnava culture makes it our duty to discuss intelligently, sincerely and thread bare. If you don't want to participate in that, that's fine. But don't expect to float your messages and opinions through the Sun without having responsibility for rebutting your challengers.
  
  As for how busy the Swami is with his seva and sadhana, we're all busy. We all have our personal service to Krsna, and we're all attempting to keep up our sadhana. If the mood you convey in your email is your own, and not the Swami's, then I think you do him a disservice to speak on his behalf in this way. If the mood comes directly from Tripurari, please share my response with him.
  
  If Swami Tripurari wants to join the ranks of Sun contributors, he'll have to carve out time in his busy schedule to actually participate in the process, just like the rest of us have to do. We are not interested in using the Sun as a one-way broadcast means for Swami Sanga, nor are we interested in funneling our site traffic to you, for your benefit, with no reciprocation of participation at this end. That seems a very one-sided relationship.
  
  Your servant,
  Rocana dasa

 

[cbrahma]

 

Sankara was not an impersonalist, because SP says so. Jesus was a Vaishnava, because SP says so. Man never went to the moon, because SP says so.

 

Do you see what I am getting at here? Try to think for yourself, cbrahma, you claim to be an educated man. I am seriously beginning to doubt it.

Where did I claim to be anything?

On the one hand I am accused of endless argumentation and on the other of not thinking. I am able to argue effectively because I debate

1) Logically (which requires thinking)

2) with appeal to authority (which requires knowledge)

And why is this about me? What is your excuse?

[bija]

 

No I don't know what that is. by cbrahma

Ok no worries. Here is what jnana-mishra-bhakti is.

 

 

Jaiva Dharma by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

Chapter 19 Abhideya Tattva

 

"...The sutra very clearly describes both the svarupa-laksana (intrinsic characteristics) and the tatastha laksana (extrinsic symptoms) of bhakti. The word uttama-bhakti refers to pure devotional service. Devotional service mixed with speculative knowledge (jnana-mishra-bhakti) is not pure devotional service. The aim of devotional service mixed with speculative knowledge (jnana-mishra-bhakti) is liberation. Only such devotional service free from any trace of desire for fruitive results or liberation is uttama-bhakti (pure devotional service).

 

So in that sense I have some similarity in realization to bishadi, jingle etc. But we differ on the goal maybe...ananya-suddha- bhakti (uttama bhakti) (in love of God). I might be wrong about them ofcourse as I am looking from the point of view from my chosen tradition - maybe they are happy to share...jingle seems open. I know bishadi is.

 

Shvu (as far as I understand him) appears to be more agnostic or athiest...so we have less in common...

Pure devotional service is a very exalted state of bhakti. Sri Rupa and Sri Raghunatha are perfect examples of such pure-bhakti yogins. Hence the rasa scriptures of Sri Rupa and others.

[bija]

 

So in that sense I have some similarity in realization to bishadi, jingle etc. by bija

And can understand why advaita appeals to the modern mind. The initial question in this thread. It has much flavor - but I have found personally accepting Sri Krsna as eternal transcendental form is more relishable - even with a tiny drop of such bhakti. Hence the ideal of unmixed devotional service. Advaita is a part of vedic history...and relevant for many people even today - the modern mind.

 

We differ philosophically...but I do not see the other party as demonic. lol. Impersonal brahman is an aspect of Krsna. I will leave the debate about such up to the stalwarts - Prabhupada (and his faithful followers) etc. I will instead attempt debate from my own spiritual station (and self-realization)...but ofcourse always glorifying the message of Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu! For it is he who is very dear.

 

Jai Nitaai!

Jai Srila Prabhupada!

[indulekhadasi]

 

I admire your enthusiasm in following vaishnavism, but it's not polite to speak ill of such a sacred tradition. Advaitins are great Krishna Bhaktas.

 

However they think Krishna's body has a material form. This pains my heart. I was speaking from my own point of view, if I offended anyone please forgive me.

[bija]

Its good hey Indu. Krsna is not pained....but because the devotee sees God as a person (sometimes seen by the devotee as a very sensitive Being)....she feels the pain.

 

Sounds like love to me...and something worth cultivating in a spiritual practice daily. So simple.

 

And the Gita sings the praises of such simplicity. Arjuna/Krsna.

 

I wonder how the devotee experiences relation with Krsna (seeing His form as temporary)?

[jinglebells]

 

However they think Krishna's body has a material form. This pains my heart. I was speaking from my own point of view, if I offended anyone please forgive me.

 

What's wrong if they think Krishna has a material body, why does it upset you so much? Is he any 'less' on account of that? There are some, who think he doesn't even exist.

[jinglebells]

I forgot to mention another thing as to why advaita is popular amongst the modern, sophisticated class. It's tolerant and liberal. We've had vaishnavas calling non-vaishnavas as demons, fools etc. Even Prabhupada used to call people as rascals.

 

But most of the time, advaitins come across as extremely gentle people, hardly ever attacking other schools. We've heard of the label 'vaishnava fanatics,' but has anyone ever heard of 'advaita fanatic?' Impossible.

 

So I believe this is also a reason for advaita's popularity, the exemplary behavior of most advaitins, which is sadly missing in our vaishnava community, where people toss around words like demons, rascals, as if there's no tomorrow.