Nectar from His Holiness Bhakti Vidya Purna Swami

[realist]

 

 

Bhakti Vidya Purna Swami on Relationship, Culture, and Sanskrit

 

 

Sunday, July 6, 2008

 

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10.6MB

 

 

Also more nectar from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 2, Chapter 1

"rishna acts according to scripture although He can do anything. The relationships described in the scriptures are how he likes relationships to go and if we follow the scriptural direction we will get the best out of a relationship.

If you think of Krishna as a big, nasty guy, then Krishna will act like a big, nasty guy. If you think He is adorable, like the residents of Vrindavana do, then he will be most adorable.

We are all goal-oriented, either to please ourselves, to please God, or to please others with the expectation that we will also become pleased.

Krishna is looking to see that one performs penance to benefit others.

Q: How are we supposed to relate to the people that we are preaching to?

A: You have to think about presenting the information in such a way that they will be interested to hear.

Most people would be willing to consider that they are lay people and a practicing spiritualist may have something to offer them, so that is not the problem, although often we think that is the problem. Generally we do not have a problem with the philosophy but with the culture of relating to people.

Once in America there was a poll taken about religion. It came out in the poll that millions of people identified themselves as Hare Krishna’s. They thought that the Hare Krishna’s had the best philosophy, but that they had the worst attitude.

First you have to be comfortable with yourself. No one will follow you if you are not comfortable with yourself. People comfortable with themselves are attractive to people who are not comfortable with themselves.

Maharaja was sitting on a subway car in New York City, happily talking with another devotee, when a man came up to them and asked them if they had some practice that made them so happy, which he could also follow. The person was so shocked to see people happily conversing on a New York subway!

In Srila Prabhupada’s books in many places, the superior position of a husband in relationship to his wife is mentioned. However, if you notice all the husband-wife dealings in the Srimad-Bhagavatam and Mahabharata, you do not see any macho, exploitative males, not even one.

So the literature also teaches the application in the culture, but unfortunately many people miss that. Krishna is masculine and His energies are all feminine, but how does Krishna relate with His energies, forcefully? No, sensitively.

Q: Is there a difference between penance, sacrifice, and austerity?

A: In all three there is restriction for some superior benefit. It could be said that penance is sambandha, sacrifice is abhideya, and austerity is prayojana.

Srila Prabhupada said that of mundane subjects, Sanskrit is the most important. Sanskrit can teach us how language functions. Knowing that, we can use English more effectively.

Later I mentioned what Maharaja said about Sanskrit to Vidvan Gauranga Prabhu, my Sanskrit teacher. He had mentioned that he had been to a Gaudiya Math to pick up some Sanskrit and Bengali commentaries on some Upanisads.

The person there said that actually you people from ISKCON are the only people who buy these books. Bhaktivinoda Thakura wanted Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura to write these books establishing Vaishnavism on the basis of these scriptures. Otherwise, the world will only have the Mayavadi misinterpretation of them.

The Gaudiya Math people are all into the rasika literature, which was around even then, but Bhaktisiddanta Sarasvati Thakura was more interested in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita, Vedanta Sutra, Upanisads, etc.

 

If it wasn’t for you people in ISKCON, this emphasis would be forgotten. Please don’t let it happen. It is up to you.

Vidvan said that in India no scholar takes you seriously as a Vaishnava scholar unless you are fluent in Sanskrit and have read the original texts and the commentaries on them"

[realist]

Just spent some quality time with Maharaj tonight at the Melbourne Temple (great prasadam) , even though he was very sick due to ‘travelling’ and the very cold Melbourne evenings, we reminisced about the time we spend together as Brahmacaris in Mayapur and Vrndavana in 1978-9 and again in Mayapur in 1989.

 

I needed some direction now that old age was coming closer and he was someone I always admired, looked up too and trusted.

These days you have to be careful whom you open up to because advanced devotees who see you as the soul and not the material body, is very, very rare.. .

Bhakti Vidya Purna Maharaj had just come to Australia from a very hot climate in Mayapur, to a medico climate at New Govardhana, Murwillumbah, to a very cold climate in Melbourne.

 

He barely could move, yes, slowly old age is settling in with all of. I told him that when you come to Melbourne in July, always rug up. And then we then talked about Prabhupada’s visit way back in July 1976 and how freezing it was. I explained, due to climate change, Melbourne is nowhere near as cold now as it was in the 60s and 70s.

Anyway, we continued to discus Prabhupada, the ‘miracle’ of Internet preaching, and the Jaiva dharma that ISKCON-BBT will eventually bring out. That Maharaj humbly explained that even though Srila Prabhupada and Narayana Maharaja have different teachings about the original position of the jiva, we are all devotees of Krsna

I mentioned how I kept a three-year day-to-day diary wart and all from the end of 1985 til 1989, when we eventually meet all the Russian devotees in Mayapur for their first legal visit.

Maharaj found it interesting hearing the Australian devotees Contribution to the Soviet Hare Krishna International Campaign. It started when Srila Prahlada wrote the letter to Gorbachev, then sang the two songs to Mr’ Regan and Mr Gorbachev that was performed with his Gurukuli friends.

 

Then the EMI contact that lead to mass media exposure, to the mercy of Atmarama Prabhu, then to Ramai Swami’s Travelling Temple where we collected 1000’s of signatures. To the three day fast out the front of the Soviet Embassy in Canberra, to that day in May 1988 the Soviet Hare Krishna’s finally won their freedom and right to be a recognised religion in the Soviet Union

Bhakti Vidya Purna Maharaj had now greatly encouraged me, after all these years, to publish this story on the internet.

Hare Krishnas today in Moscow

 

......

 

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[stonehearted]

Originally Posted by realist

Anyway, we continued to discus Prabhupada, the ‘miracle’ of Internet preaching, and the Jaiva dharma that ISKCON-BBT will eventually bring out. That Maharaj humbly explained that even though Srila Prabhupada and Narayana Maharaja have different teachings about the original position of the jiva, we are all devotees of Krsna

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did Maharaja discuss how the BBT will deal with the sections of Jaiva Dharma that discuss that topic? Several yearrs ago, a senior editor at BBT asked my advice, and I told him that, if they intended to publish Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Jaiva Dharma,they ought to present the philosophy as he does. Apparently they still haven't figured that part out.

[theist]

 

Did Maharaja discuss how the BBT will deal with the sections of Jaiva Dharma that discuss that topic? Several yearrs ago, a senior editor at BBT asked my advice, and I told him that, if they intended to publish Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Jaiva Dharma,they ought to present the philosophy as he does. Apparently they still haven't figured that part out.

 

To laugh or cry is the question.

[Kulapavana]

 

...I told him that, if they intended to publish Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Jaiva Dharma,they ought to present the philosophy as he does. Apparently they still haven't figured that part out.

 

ever since the GBC took the vote on the jiva origin issue they have painted themselves into a corner because no previous acharya supported such views.

[stonehearted]

Hmmm . . . maybe they should annotate it.

[theist]

 

Hmmm . . . maybe they should annotate it.

 

Why Babhru?

[bija]

 

Did Maharaja discuss how the BBT will deal with the sections of Jaiva Dharma that discuss that topic? Several yearrs ago, a senior editor at BBT asked my advice, and I told him that, if they intended to publish Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Jaiva Dharma,they ought to present the philosophy as he does. Apparently they still haven't figured that part out.

by stone hearted

 

Sectarianism is a natural byproduct of the Absolute Truth. When acaryas first ascertain and instruct the Truth, it is not polluted with sectarianism. But the rules and regulations received through disciplic succession regarding the goal and the method of achieving it are changed in due course of time according to the mentality and locale of the people. BVT

 

A single point of difference such as the origin debate...could eventually fructify into greater difference...and so on...even a vastly different idea of the philosophy possibly, in due course (regarding the means and goal - that could happen over the course of many years). This origin issue is no small thing...and makes me wonder what are the motivations and intelligence behind these Iskcon scholars. Do they even think of these things?

 

And on and on we go....eventually....never the twain shall meet.

[stonehearted]

 

Why Babhru?

It's a joke! There's a big gap between Bhaktivinoda's discussion of the nature of the jiva is different from the official ISKCON/GBC version. BBT hasn't published this book, which I know Srila Prabhupada wanted out in a good English edition, because of this discrepancy.

[bija]

 

BBT hasn't published this book, which I know Srila Prabhupada wanted out in a good English edition, because of this discrepancy. by stonehearted

 

Please bare with me, I am ignorant of this subject.

 

What do you mean 'because of this discrepancy'? Are you saying the current Iskcon position on the 'origin of the jiva' is what Srila Prabhupada intended?

[stonehearted]

No, and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. I meant that, despite the fact that I know Srila Prabhupada wants his disciples to publish a good edition of Jaiva Dharma, the BBT has failed to do so because they haven't figured out what to do about the difference between ISKCON's official position and what the Thakura says in JD.

[Hari Bhakta dasa]

Who published this edition that is carried by Krishna Culture?

http://www.krishnaculture.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=KC&Product_Code=JDK&Category_Code=

[bija]

Thank you stone.

 

I have the beautiful copy by Srila Narayana Maharaja. But would love for my library an Iskcon version - I feel Srila Bhaktivinoda's books should be produced in high quality print and binding etc (to glorify him). Of equaly quality to Sri Prapanna-jivamrta binding (the cloth bound version).

 

But if the Jaiva Dharma Iskcon is permeated by philosophical dispute...that would be a shame, in my humble opinion. Such divisions would be against the spirit of Srila Thakura.

[stonehearted]

I have Narayan Maharaja's edition and have read it a couple of times. (I've also listened to Tridandi Maharaja's recording quite a bit.) There's an edition by an ISKCON devotee, whose name I can't recall. Both are quite nice, and I enjoy reading them together sometimes. I feel I get deeper understanding from the differences in the translations.

 

I don't know what will come of the translation the BBT has been fussing with for many years (don't remember who did that translation, either). But I agree that a really snazzy presentation would be nice. Prapanna-jivanamritam is pretty cool, but I worry about my grubby hands and that nice, white silk.

[Sarva gattah]

 

This is the fact according to Srila Prabhupada that rejects the nonsense 'impersonal Brahmajyoti origin' as Narayana and Sridar Maharajs and their followers teach

 

The full possible bodily expression and potential of the jiva tatastha is eternally found within the perpetual ‘present’ of Goloka.

 

We, the Jiva tatastha (simply meaning we have the free will to choose) are expressed there as who we really are without the concept of past or future, that makes us imperishable in our endless body within that realm of the perpetual ‘presents’, the eternal present or the forever 'now'

 

It is there in Goloka or Krsnaloka our perpetual identity, personality and individuality is endlessly serving beautiful Krishna as our perpetual ‘svarupa’ body (nitya siddha), even if we sometimes forget that fact and 'dream' or 'think' we are in the material world.

 

Hare Krishna

 

P.S. If you all never got that the first time, then read it again

[bija]

 

Both are quite nice, and I enjoy reading them together sometimes. I feel I get deeper understanding from the differences in the translations. by stonehearted

I find this a nice way to learn and grow too. Language is beautiful that way.

 

 

Prapanna-jivanamritam is pretty cool, but I worry about my grubby hands and that nice, white silk.

by stonehearted

lol...well our old mate Vedesu would have the same problem after his feast of laddhu (I presume laddhu sweet is finger lickin' good).

 

I was in the local christian book shop today and the australian bible society has released a new range of high quality print bibles, with thumbnails and exquisite covers. For $29.95 cents. That is cheap for a quality book.

 

If you ever speak to your Iskcon book man...let him know if they had such books...I would be bankrupt and spend each payday.

[bija]

Yes Sarva...personality must be always present...the symptom of this is consciousness. My concern is more focused on discovering that personality that I do not see presently.

 

If Iskcon's presentation can awaken that realization in people...then it is perfect IMHO. Even though my feelings sway toward Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja...in his siksha for awakening (it works for me).

[theist]

 

No, and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. I meant that, despite the fact that I know Srila Prabhupada wants his disciples to publish a good edition of Jaiva Dharma, the BBT has failed to do so because they haven't figured out what to do about the difference between ISKCON's official position and what the Thakura says in JD.

 

Yeah I got that. That is why I said I didn't know if I should laugh or cry. It is on one hand a hilarious thing and on the other hand a tragic thing. If someone is going to translate someone else's book then they should translate it as it is or not at all.

 

The fact that anyone should contemplate changing something the Thakur wrote because it doesn't fit the company line is bizarre and scary. We can agree or disagree but we are not permitted to alter anything.

[theist]

This explanation is given on the bottom of the page you linked. "Jaiva-dharma, dust-jacket, embossed, ribbon, translated by Sriman Sarvabhavana dasa, edited by Kesidamana dasa, 624 pp., 8 color plates, BBT standard diacritics."

Who published this edition that is carried by Krishna Culture?

http://www.krishnaculture.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=KC&Product_Code=JDK&Category_Code=

[Sarva gattah]

 

The fact that anyone should contemplate changing something the Thakur wrote because it doesn't fit the company line is bizarre and scary. We can agree or disagree but we are not permitted to alter anything.

 

Its the translation into English that can be the problem and not the content. Even Sarvabhavana dasa's translation is inconclusive because of the English translation.

 

There is a more accurate translation that will be available soon

[theist]

I do remember one thing from Jaiva Dharma where the advice is given not to spend time speculating on this question but rather to 'go there' and realize the truth for oneself.

[stonehearted]

Realist, I did not intend to hijack your thread, and my question was not meant rhetorically. I apologize for the digression I caused, but I do wonder whether Maharaja addressed the issue I raised.

[Hari Bhakta dasa]

 

This explanation is given on the bottom of the page you linked. "Jaiva-dharma, dust-jacket, embossed, ribbon, translated by Sriman Sarvabhavana dasa, edited by Kesidamana dasa, 624 pp., 8 color plates, BBT standard diacritics."

 

I was not clear in my question. I was asking if it was if the BBT had published this edition. It is not clear on this.

[Sarva gattah]

 

I do remember one thing from Jaiva Dharma where the advice is given not to spend time speculating on this question but rather to 'go there' and realize the truth for oneself.

 

Get Back To Where You Belong! It's all within your own heart, if we are unconditionally sincere, we do not have to find Goloka, this beautiful place of Krsna katha will find us and reveal that actually we never really left.

 

 

........but rather to 'go there' and realize the truth for oneself.

 

Look within your own heart, you are already in Goloka, you just have to realize it by becoming 110% Krsna Conscious

[bija]

 

Look within your own heart, you are already in Goloka, you just have to realize it by becoming 110% Krsna Conscious by sarva

Bhajan Rahasya by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

Chapter 2 (removal of offences) text 15

 

The fourth verse of the catuh-sloki of Srimad Bhagavatam 2.9.36 states:

 

'One who is inquisitive about the truth of the self (atma-tattva) inquires through direct (anvaya) and indirect (vyatireka) means of deliberation about that object, which is always eternal.'

 

Vrtti (bvnm): "....Direct following, or anvaya, means to accept the rules of sadhana bhakti with a favorable mood......In this Text the confidential meaning of 'direct' and 'indirect' indicates the union (samyoga) and separation (vipralambha) found in Vrajenda-nandana Syamasundara's amorous pastimes (srngara-rasa) with His most beloved vraja-sundaris. To deceive the conditioned living entities, all these priceless jewels are kept well protected in a box that the jnanis and aisvarya bhaktas are unable to open. That guru who is adept at relishing the rasa of Vraja displays its contents only to his qualified disciples."