Vigraha Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 By Hari-sauri dasa June 26, 2008 A number of concerns have been raised about the new design for the Mayapur Temple of the Vedic Planetarium. This have been collated by Janakirama dasa and were presented by Drutakarma prabhu on June 10 2008 to the first meeting of a committee formed to develop the exhibits that will be displayed in the planetarium section of the TVP. The main points were summarized thus: 1) We know that Srila Prabhupada made some brief remarks on one or two occasions about the TVP looking like the US Capitol. But we also know that on many occasions he was shown and approved designs of an Indian nature. We feel it is therefore necessary for the movement’s leadership to carefully consider which of the designs that Srila Prabhupada spoke about best fulfills his overall desires for the project. 2) We have some concerns that a Western design for the TVP, particularly one modeled after the US Capitol building, will not have the desired effect of attracting favorable worldwide attention to the Vedic cosmology, philosophy and culture that Srila Prabhupada wanted to present. Since the 1970s, world opinion about the United States has changed considerably for the worse. We feel an Indian-style temple will be more in harmony with the actual purposes that Srila Prabhupada envisioned for the project. An American-style design may inspire negative reactions from many categories of people (ranging from academics to ordinary people), for stylistic, cultural, political and other reasons. 3) We wish to be assured that the project will be designed in such a way as to take into account the traditional appearance of the dhama and environmental factors. 4) We want the planning of exhibits to keep pace with the actual level of scholarship that ISKCON has attained in the fields of Vedic cosmology. The above points were accompanied by further comments by two other scholars as well as the following letter “signed by a number of ISKCON scholars on VAST” reading as follows: Whereas a significant number of intelligent, educated members of ISKCON are not pleased with the Western design of the TVP; Whereas these members feel that an Indian design would be more appropriate for ISKCON’s largest temple in its most sacred dhama, especially in terms of attracting visitors from all over the world, who will expect to see in India an Indian design; and Whereas there are reasons for studying more carefully Srila Prabhupada’s instructions on this matter; We propose that no construction on the TVP begin until the GBC has had time to hear critics of the current design give a presentation of their view that an Indian design would better fulfill Srila Prabhupada’s overall desires for the TVP. ——————————————————- My reply: The key to this debate, as has been noted above, is to understand what Srila Prabhupada himself wanted for the project. We all agree on this point and I shall attempt to present what the current TVP design and construction team has understood and concluded in this regard. 1) Janakirama prabhu states “We know that Srila Prabhupada made some brief remarks on one or two occasions about the TVP looking like the US Capitol. But we also know that on many occasions he was shown and approved designs of an Indian nature.” This statement tends to minimize Srila Prabhupada’s own stated preference for the design [‘brief remarks’] while maximizing the idea of designs of an “Indian nature” [many occasions]. I was present in Mayapur with Srila Prabhupada in 1976 and 1977 when discussion of the TVP was gearing up and Srila Prabhupada was pushing the project quite strongly with Saurabha prabhu and the GBC. He gave many instructions on what was to go inside the building but in 1976 there was no real design for the outer structure as such. There was one design in late 1971 which appears more like a pyramid than a traditional ‘Indian’ style dome [see photos below]. It was, as far as I know, drawn up by Ranchor prabhu in London, who had never been to India and had little or no concept of ‘Indian’ temple architecture. At any rate, it had little resemblance to ‘traditional Indian domes.’ That design was made before the idea of a planetarium came up and seems to have fell by the wayside as Srila Prabhupada’s ideas for the Mayapur temple developed. After that no design is apparent until 1977. The earliest known date that Srila Prabhupada talked about a planetarium seems to be circa 1973 in a recorded conversation with his godbrother BR Sridhar Swami but no description of the building’s appearance was stated. Further discussions with his disciples ensued. On November 7, 1975 the following discussion took place, whereby it is evident that no design had yet been settled upon: Prabhupada: Yes. How one is going by cheating others, by stealing. So everything. You can display, what is called? That planetary system? Indian man (1): Planetarium? Prabhupada: Planetarium. According to planetarium. Dr. Patel: They have got a big planetarium in Calcutta. Prabhupada: Yes, they have got, but we have also got. So it is little difference. Just like we are calculating that the sun is the beginning of the planets, sun, then moon. Therefore we say “Sunday, Monday.” This is very quite reasonable. Tuesday. Dr. Patel: And Tuesday is next word because Maìgala. Prabhupada: Yes. And planet is 1,006,000 miles above, above. And Saturday, Saturn is the last. So now sun is calculated to be 93,000,000’s miles from earth, and if the moon is still further 1,600,000, then it becomes about fifteen hundred thousand miles. No. Fifteen million miles. So how they are going, in four days, fifteen million? Dr. Patel: You ask me? Prabhupada: Yes. (laughter) Dr. Patel: Well, sir, there is no going and coming. All are what we are, wherever. Prabhupada: No, no. That is another thing. That is another thing, that with their this sputnik, how they can go in four days fifteen millions miles? Dr. Patel: You see, in the cosmos, the whole cosmos is as big… Modern scientists understand it by what we call the force of attraction and repulsion. When you go in between the two, there is no attraction, repulsion. Then you just have this and it goes on. Prabhupada: No, no. Hare Krishna. Bhagavata: So we should display the real planetary system… Prabhupada: Yes. Bhagavata: As it really exists. Prabhupada: Yes. Bhagavata: And then we can put underneath explanations in Bengali and English. Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Dr. Patel: In Sanskrit and English because Sanskrit contains Bengali and Gujarati and all. Prabhupada: Yes. That’s a good idea, good idea. Dr. Patel: I go, sir. Prabhupada: Hm? Time is up? Hare Krishna. [break] …many things to be displayed by these models, and we can utilize that. Bhagavata: Like the pictures we have in the Bhagavatam and the Gita, then we can make them into doll displays, some of those pictures. Prabhupada: But the idea was that in our big temple I wanted to display. Bhagavata: Oh. You didn’t want a separate building. Prabhupada: No. We wanted to display where is the Vaikuntha planet, where is the Goloka planet, where is this material world—in this way. Bhagavata: So if that’s what you want, then we should not make a permanent structure? We should make some temporary structure like last year. Prabhupada: That you decide yourself. Bhagavata: So we should engage the local dollmakers in doing this. Prabhupada: First of all you have your place; then make dolls. But dolls should not be exactly like this, in the same way. But when you make actually, then I will give you how the models should be made. Now, how to do, where to do, that, it is your business. You decide, some of yourself, and do the needful. You have not yet done any plan for the big temple? Saurabha: I have been asking Jayapataka for about one year to please send me some plan of the land so that I can place all these buildings, because there is no… Bhagavata: The blueprints are done. Jayapataka is revising them now. They are in Mayapur. He is reviewing all the blueprints. They are all done. And when they are finished… When he finishes reviewing them, then we’ll have them sent here immediately. I just sent them to Mayapur. Saurabha: As soon as I get the plans, I will make immediately, finish everything. We can make a master plan for the whole situation. Prabhupada: So ask him to send immediately site plan and begin. Saurabha: Yes. … [end quote] From this conversation it is apparent that there was no existing design. Saurabha was waiting for plans of the land so that he could begin work on it. Srila Prabhupada spent 2 months in Mayapur leading up to the 1976 Gaura Purnima festival. ISKCON Mayapur had bought more land and an application was submitted to the WB govt. for acquiring 350 acres for the project. Srila Prabhupada talked about a city of 50,000 devotees based on varnasrama principles. I personally sat in on most of the conversations which were held with the Mayapur co-directors Bhavananda and Jayapataka Swamis, and on morning walks with his senior disciples and secretaries–Hridayananda Goswami, Pusta Krishna Swami and Tamal Krishna Goswami. However a specific external design for the temple was not touted at that time. The only thing that was understood at that time was that there would be a large central dome which would house the planetarium and it would be 350 feet high. Saurabh prabhu was ISKCON’s main temple ‘architect’ although he himself had no formal training in architecture and he readily admits he was only a designer. At the 1976 Gaura Purnima festival there was still no design but during 1976 he took up the project enthusiastically and spent many hours working on the concept of a city for 50,000 people centered by a temple incorporating a Vedic planetarium. During 1976 Srila Prabhupada spoke frequently about the Mayapur planetarium. He was in Washington DC for the bi-centennial celebrations. On July 4 the devotees took him on a tour of the city and afterwards we sat with him for some time on a lawn at the end of the Mall, looking towards the Capitol building waiting for the fireworks display. Srila Prabhupada seems to have been meditating on the Capitol building dome and liked what he saw because on July 6, he called in Yadubara prabhu and his wife Vishakha and asked them to take photos of the Capitol Building: Prabhupada: … I wanted both of you to take various detailed photographs of that Capitol. Yadubara: The Capitol Building. For what purpose, Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: We shall have picture, planetarium in Mayapura. (aside:) That’s better. [break] …spiritual world, material world, and so on, so on. Planetary…, succession of the planetary systems, everything. A building like that. Yadubara: That would be a separate building from the temple? Prabhupada: Yes. We are acquiring 350 acres of land for life for constructing a small township… Yadubara: I think we… Prabhupada: …to attract people from all the world to see the planetarium. Svarupa Damodara: Is this near the temple? Prabhupada: Yes. Planetarium name, actually it will be temple. But all round, things will be… Anyway. Yadubara: I know before the idea was to have it inside the main temple. Prabhupada: Hm? Yadubara: As you walked up the outside of the, or the inside of the main temple, inside that dome, they would have it on the walls. But that would… That original plan was to have it inside the main temple. Prabhupada: Yes. You take all details, inside, outside. That will be nice. Svarupa Damodara: Can you take inside? Is it allowed? Yadubara: Yes, I think so. [end quote] Yadubara reported back two days later and Srila Prabhupada instructed him to make three copies of all the photos he took, one set for himself, one for Saurabha and one for the Mayapur management. Srila Prabhupada therefore did more than make ‘a few brief remarks’– he studied the exterior of the building, had photos taken, and had them sent to his men in India. The following month he met with George Harrison and informed him of his plans: July 26, 1976, London Prabhupada: … We are just attempting a big planetarium in Mayapur. We have asked government to acquire land, 350 acres. That is negotiation going on. We shall give a Vedic planetarium. George Harrison: Is that the one you were talking about? With all the… Prabhupada: In the Fifth Canto. Gurudasa: The planetarium will be 350 feet high and show the cosmology of the spiritual world. Prabhupada: The construction will be like your Washington capital, like that. George Harrison: A big dome. Prabhupada: Yes. Estimated eight crores of rupees. [end] Thus Srila Prabhupada several times expressed his desire to have the TVP modelled after the Capitol building. However, in Mayapur just prior to the 1977 Gaura Purnima festival Saurabha prabhu presented Srila Prabhupada with simple plans for a varnasrama city. He had designed a TVP with 108 domes around its main dome. There is no information as to whether Saurabha ever received the photos from Yadubara so we don’t know whether he didn’t know about Srila Prabhupada’s idea, or he just ignored it. At any rate, Srila Prabhupada allowed Saurabha to make a model of his own design and this was displayed on a pedestal just outside the Lotus building: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigraha Posted July 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 This is the only known alternative design for the TVP apart from the one depicted in the photos from 1971. This hardly complies with the above statement “many occasions he was shown and approved designs of an Indian nature.” So where does this leave us? We can say that Srila Prabhupada did not insist on the Capitol dome and left it to his disciples to decide what to do. It’s clear that he knew he wasn’t going to be around long enough to see the project built and he was therefore giving his disciples licence to go with their own design. This is a valid argument. As he said in the November 1975 discussion: Bhagavata: So if that’s what you want, then we should not make a permanent structure? We should make some temporary structure like last year. Prabhupada: That you decide yourself. Bhagavata: So we should engage the local doll makers in doing this. Prabhupada: First of all you have your place; then make dolls. But dolls should not be exactly like this, in the same way. But when you make actually, then I will give you how the models should be made. Now, how to do, where to do, that, it is your business. You decide, some of yourself, and do the needful. You have not yet done any plan for the big temple? [end] Thus when Saurabha came up with his own design, Srila Prabhupada went with that. It gets down the fact that Srila Prabhupada had his stated preference and Saurabha had his. If it is a question of preferences, why not accept Srila Prabhupada’s own preference–the Capitol dome? He did after all state it several times in 1976 that he wanted his TVP to look like that. Why should we not accept Srila Prabhupada’s desire as paramount above our own? Let’s look at some other aspects of this argument: 2) The American Connection Srila Prabhupada traveled extensively in India. He must have viewed practically every type of dome and temple design in his 70 years before coming to the west. He certainly knew what Indian religious architecture looked like better than any of us. Yet he picked the WDC Capitol dome as the one he wanted. It wasn’t whimsical or sentimental. He was making a deliberate choice . It is useful to look at Srila Prabhupada’s mood and ambitions for the Mayapur project. He was proud of his American connection. This was expressed several times to us in 1976: Room Conversation — January 19, 1976, Mayapur Prabhupada: [talking about a pamphlet one of his godbrothers had issued] This pamphlet, I don’t think it has got any value. Tamala Krishna: It has no value, Prabhupada. What we should do is build this temple. If we just build this temple… This is my point. Let us build this temple immediately. Once this temple is built, everything is finished. All the glow worms are completely extinguished. There will be nothing left. They can do anything they want, and nothing will matter. If they have a 350-foot building with escalators, with huge compounds, then everything is ended. Prabhupada: So do like that, like America. Bhavananda: He can come here and stand outside and scream, “I am the acaryadeva.” Just like in America so many people are saying, “I am Napoleon.” No one… Prabhupada: That everyone says. That is not… Bhavananda: We have to build this temple because… Prabhupada: So make something like American which is wonderful for the world. So you are Americans. You must do something. Tamala Krishna: If we build this temple with escalators and the people go in the temple and they go up the escalator… Harikesa: They’ll never come back. And again: Morning Walk — February 21, 1976, Mayapura Acyutananda: [speaking about the local Gaudiya mathas] And if they think their matha will deteriorate, then Prabhupada has offered… Prabhupada: Yes. Acyutananda: …to maintain the temples. Prabhupada: Yes. Let their men work. Whatever expenditure is required, we shall give. There is no disturbance. Money is power. That we have got. Acyutananda: Yes. Prabhupada: By the grace of… Acyutananda: Hridayananda Maharaja mentioned that before you went to America, Indians were not interested. And now you have come back with money, so they are willing to hear. Prabhupada: Money is the strength all over, all over the world. America is prestigious—why? They have got money. So we, I have got American disciples. Why shall I not have money? If America, a guru of the Americans remains poor, it is contradictory. Acyutananda: Yes. Prabhupada: It cannot be. Morning Walk — March 9, 1976, Mayapur Prabhupada: …if there is water. And if there is lowland, the whole water will go to the lowland. And that means you have two or three canals, there will be no more flood. Tamala Krishna: So you need the land to make the canals. Prabhupada: That’s it. Tamala Krishna: Emergency yajna. Prabhupada: Yes. You convince him like that. Yasodanandana: This is very clever. Prabhupada: And factually we have to do that in order to check the flood. Make scheme like Europeans and Americans. Why you are thinking in terms of Indian plan? Tamala Krishna: He’s been here a long time, Prabhupada. (laughter) He’s thinking like a… Prabhupada: But I am born here. I have no Indian plan. My plans are all American. Yasodanandana: Jaya Prabhupada! Guru-krpa: Your plans are Krishna’s plans, Prabhupada. Prabhupada: Hm? Yes. I planned that “I must go to America.” Yes. That was the reason. Otherwise, generally they go to London. I did not go to London. Tamala Krishna: We were talking about that. Prabhupada: Eh? Tamala Krishna: We were just talking about that last night, that generally someone in Indian would think, “Let me go to London,” but you thought, “Let me go to…” Prabhupada: No. I was simply dreaming, “How to go to New York?” Actually I thought. Tamala Krishna: The biggest. Prabhupada: Yes. I was scheming, “Whether I shall go this way, through Tokyo, Japan, or that way? Which way is cheaper?” That was my plan. And I was targeting to New York always. Sometimes I was dreaming that I have come to New York. Hare Krishna. From these quotes we can see that Srila Prabhupada was proud of the international nature of his ISKCON society and he wanted that displayed through the architecture of the TVP–“Make something American.” According to the suggestion of our scholars the building should “take into account the traditional appearance of the dhama.” What exactly is the traditional appearance? Mud or bamboo huts and straw roofs? We already have that with Srila Prabhupada’s bhajan kutir where he personally lived in the early days of ISKCON Mayapur. Its certainly not what he wanted. As soon as he could he built the Lotus building, which doesn’t resemble any other building in the entire district. The fact is that he was not interested in ‘Indian’ architecture for the Mayapur project. Mayapur was already replete with several temples built by his godbrothers following in the same style that was adopted by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. Srila Prabhupada did not want to follow their lead. He wanted something clearly distinguishable from those who had never preached outside of India. Now one of the arguments is that America has become unpopular due to its political dealings and foreign intervention policies. The argument says: “Since the 1970s, world opinion about the United States has changed considerably for the worse. We feel an Indian-style temple will be more in harmony with the actual purposes that Srila Prabhupada envisioned for the project. An American-style design may inspire negative reactions from many categories of people (ranging from academics to ordinary people), for stylistic, cultural, political and other reasons.” We beg to say that if we want to seriously cite Srila Prabhupada and be in harmony with him, we should understand that he was proud of his American connection. His money, which he saw as Krishna’s blessing, was coming from there and he wasn’t shy to advertize his connection even in the face of suspicion from the media and politicians. Apparently the author of these comments is not aware that American foreign policies and politics were easily as unpopular during Srila Prabhupada’s time as they are now. Is the war in Iraq any more unpopular than the war in Vietnam? But Srila Prabhupada was not concerned. In 1974-77 politicians in India were railing against ISKCON’s American connection: June 22 1975 Los Angeles Prabhupada: Yes. This is very kind of you, but there have been so many attempts to cut down this movement, but they are cheated. They could not do so. Dr. Gerson: May I try to help? Prabhupada: Yes, that is your real business. In India also, they are still making so much propaganda. They are making propaganda that “These American devotees, they are CIA.” (laughter) This propaganda is very strong in India, making the people against these American boys who are preaching. So this is going on. They financed one film, “Hare Krishna.” That is spite against us. But still, those who are sincere, they are praising, “Yes, this is a real.” Even Srila Prabhupada’s own godbrothers thought he must be getting money from the CIA: Morning Walk — August 6, 1975, Detroit Harikesa: That’s why the government thinks that we are being supported. In India they think we are being supported by the… Prabhupada: CIA. Harikesa: Yes. Because we have so many nice things. Where else could we… Brahmananda: They think it is the mercy of the CIA. Prabhupada: My Godbrother says-Tirtha Maharaja—that American government has given me two crores of rupees. They are supposed to be spiritually advanced, and they are so rascal. And he is the head of Caitanya Matha. Krishna said, yoga-knemam vahamy aham: [bg. 9.22] “I take the responsibility of his expenditure.” Krishna says, and they are preaching Krishna consciousness, and they are thinking, “American government is doing, not Krishna.” Such fools and rascals, they are head of…, a spiritual head. Karmis, jnanis—everyone is envious of our… And they are trying to speculate how to admit: “Where he gets money? Where he gets money?” But Srila Prabhupada had ready answers to counter the false impressions and propaganda: August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm) Prabhupada: The whole world is becoming CIA. (laughter) We can say, that “All right, the Americans have sent their CIA, but why the Germans business there? They are also CIA?” And where is… Soon the Russians also will join, the Polish also will join, everyone will join. Bhagavan: Africans. Prabhupada: Yes. Harikesa: They can’t say the Russians are CIA. (laughs) Prabhupada: No. We have got potency to force everyone to join. The Russians have already imperceptibly joined—they have praised my books. That is imperceptible, what is called? Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction — August 19, 1976, Hyderabad Prabhupada: … America has got money but blind. And India has got culture but lame. So let us combine. Then things will be done very nice. Andha-paìgu-nyaya. Just like I am the same man. I was finding difficulty to start this mission in India, very, very difficult. With great hardship I published three books. But as soon as I went America, the andha-paìgu-nyaya became successful. So this is the position. So instead of becoming envious from political… We have nothing to do with… To the Americans unnecessarily thinking that “CIA, CIA…” Let American money and India’s culture combine together, and the whole world will be benefitted. America has got enough money; they can spend. Either they give me as the price of my book or anything, money is there like anything. India has got culture. So Indian culture, Vedic culture, Bhagavad-gita culture, pushed through American money, the whole world will be benefitted. Convince them. It is not the question of India, America, here… It is a cultural movement for the benefit of the whole world. Pathivite ache yata nagaradi-grama. It is cultural movement.” Srila Prabhupada’s way to deal with any negative propaganda was to write to friendly politicians for support and also use the press to counter the false claims: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 The entire project is a total joke. They can't decide whether the Moon is closer to the Earth or the Sun but they propose to build a huge, multimillion dollar Temple to house their confused version of 'Vedic cosmology'... and of course HS does not even mention it... Instead, they focus on the building... how typical... just an empty shell filled with high sounding slogans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigraha Posted July 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Press Conference — December 16, 1976, Hyderabad Guest (9): Recently a political party also has alleged that ISKCON temples have become abode of the CIA agents. Prabhupada: Yes. Guest (9): What do you say for it? Prabhupada: We are detecting who is irreligious. That’s all. That is our business. Guest (3): They are detecting who is irreligious. Prabhupada: He is going on in the name of religion, but he does not know what is religion. So that we are detecting. You can say like that. This is our business. Guest (3): It was an allegation by an important… Prabhupada: It is allegation. And they are so fools that the Americans, they have come here to become Vaisnava and starvation and they have become religious. They have no food there, and they have come to me and they have no dress, they have… And this boy is English boy. He is giving me massage as if he’s a poor man’s son. This is… Is he poor man’s son? Why he is giving massage? We are Indian, poor Indian. He is not in need of money. He even buys his own cloth. The other day I was chastising him, “Why you are purchasing? You take.” “No, I have got money.” Just see. This is their position. Dr. Ramachandra: May we take leave? Prabhupada: Hare Krishna. Yes. (Hindi—jokes about CIA) (laughter) Dr. Ramachandra: This is wild allegation. Prabhupada: It is no reason. (Hindi) As if they have no money to go to the hotel. Dr. Ramachandra: In India everything is after CIA now. Prabhupada: And in Parliament it has been denied. Rather, Home Member said that “We have no information that they are CIA.” Parliament challenged, “What steps you are going to take?” And “No step. There is no information.” They are afraid of the American government because of this Bangladesh affair. And otherwise government appreciates this movement. But because the Americans are there they think, “Some may do something,” in this way. Yes. But there is no such chance. They are all devotees. They have nothing to do… Dr. Ramachandra: This is a purely religious movement. Prabhupada: That is right. They have nothing to do with politics. And if they found any politics, they can hang me. I shall go.” The point here is that Srila Prabhupada didn’t care for critics. He had his own program which he didn’t change despite sometimes be subjected to negative propaganda. His movement is transcendental and as he noted above, those who see the real thing will understand that it is neither American nor Indian, it is meant for everyone around the world. 3) Apart from this, the design is not exactly exclusively American. Here is a photo of another similar dome: Looks familiar? This is St. Paul’s Cathedral in London. Or check this one out: This is the Vatican. And if we study domes around the world, especially in Europe (where do we think the Capitol building design came from?) there are many that resemble the one being planned for Mayapur. There was another dome Srila Prabhupada liked, the Victoria Memorial in Kolkata. This is a combination of European and Mughal architecture. It is one of the most famous landmarks in India. On a walk circe 1974 Srila Prabhupada told his disciples, including the two Mayapur co-directors that he want a dome like that. And on another occasion he even suggested that we should apply to take it over and make it into a temple: Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction — August 19, 1976, Hyderabad Prabhupada: Why not take the Victoria Memorial? What is, they are doing? Jayapataka: I have never gone inside. I heard it is simply old English armor and some swords. Prabhupada: Yes, I have seen. Gargamuni: And the marble is turning black. Prabhupada: Because they don’t… Gargamuni: They don’t clean it. Jayapataka: How they can afford to maintain such a building? Prabhupada: Krishna will maintain. We can utilize it properly. Jayapataka: And we’ll have British pujaris. For the glory of Queen Victoria. Prabhupada: Victoria. Let them send. Tell them that we shall bring. Victoria has… Let them send to worship Victoria with prasadam of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. That is real Victoria Memorial. So if we really want to understand the mood and intention of Srila Prabhupada we cannot escape the fact that he liked European/American architecture and thought it just suitable to his purpose in advertizing his international society around the world. As for the American connection, you cannot avoid it. Ambarish prabhu comes from one of the oldest money lines in America. What could be more American than the Fords? We should also note that while American politics have never been popular, American culture has taken over the world. Indians are mad after it, and even more so since 1992 after the communist regimes collapsed and the Indian government open their doors to free trade. We humbly suggest that devotees should be less hung up on being American and more enthused about being members of Lord Caitanya’s transcendental movement. 3) Environmental concerns The design and construction team have consulted with our engineers, plumbing contractors, lighting engineers and others how to make the building as ‘green’ as possible. This is very much a concern that in 20 years time we not look like dinosaurs from a previous era of flagrant disregard for nature and the environment. Samba dasa has been assigned by the Mayapur GBCs to revise the master plan and incorporate as many energy efficient systems as possible. Saranam dasi was invited to come to Mayapur to help plan energy conservation and alternative energy strategies and although this is in its infancy at the moment there is a real intent to become a model of environmental friendliness. We should at the same time remember that Srila Prabhupada wanted a small city to be built in Mayapur so there will be no question that Mayapur will remain a rural backwater with paddy fields etc. We can and do desire however to keep as much of Mayapur’s natural opulence as possible with parks and gardens and inoffensive waste disposal. I hope this helps to put some things in perspective and show that what is currently being planned is just according to Srila Prabhupada’s desire and instructions. If by solid evidence rather than sentiment and innuendo it can be shown that Srila Prabhupada wanted something else, I am sure the Mayapur GBCs will be happy to look at it. As it is, Ambarish and his team are confident that their plans are on the right track. The land is there, the Deities are waiting, and now the money is available. This is the first time in ISKCON’s history that all the necessary factors have fallen into place, and it behooves us to lend our support to this last great unfulfilled project for the pleasure of Srila Prabhupada. Your humble servant, Hari-sauri dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 As most know I don't accept the Bhagavatam's cosmology as factual so I wouldn't want to see so much money spent to build it. It seems to me there are more pressing issues. Couldn't that money be better spent in creating two or three really nice alternative schools for devotee kids? But the subject is on the design. I think this design is reather unattractive or one could even say I think it's down right ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 The points made about building something in line with distinct Indian design makes so much sense to me. It's being built in India and it will house the ancient Indian ideas (no matter how outdated) so the structure should reflect the same period as when those concepts were widely held. Both Western and Indian designs are beautiful in their own ways but why impose a western style on India? In some ways it could even be viewed as insulting by some as some form of colonization. Let it express the beautiful Indian design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Since the 1970s, world opinion about the United States has changed considerably for the worse. We feel an Indian-style temple will be more in harmony with the actual purposes that Srila Prabhupada envisioned for the project. At a recent speech G.W. Bush was interrupted by an angered audience and people started to shout mass murderer. I was shocked to hear this but these people were all Americans, in other words, Americans attacking their own president by calling him mass murderer. G.W. Bush somehow countered that we live in a society of free speech while the camera showed how these hecklers were lead away by security agents. Somehow the world seems divided about the killing in itself at the operational zones and yes, Hari Sauri prabhu's point is valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hari Sauri: As for the American connection, you cannot avoid it. Ambarish prabhu comes from one of the oldest money lines in America. I'm not sure how accurate that assertion is. The Fords' money goes back 100 years, to the Model T Ford. There are money lines in Boston and New York that go back 300, 350 years. Heck, even the Rockefellers' and other robber barons' money is older than the Fords'. Anyway, these folks will do what they will do, and neither my carping nor yours will budge them an inch. I thought the original idea was to show the relationships between material and spiritual planetary systems according to Brihad-Bhagavatamrita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 From the capital I can see a large body of water outside to attract and humble visitors (like that six million man march). I would see a dome which on the inside shows the current night sky of stars to establish the point in time when such a glorious religious scientific monument was erected in the early 21st century. I don't think the dome necessarily is the central structure of the presentation, but more of an introduction to the subject matter presented within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Hmm ... Forgive my interruption. But looking at the design of the model of the temple (picture by Vigraha and Theist - Yes, I know it's the same), one thought have crossed my mind. This model, as well as most of the Gopurums (tower in Hindu temples) were designed like that of the Pyramid. Is it possible that there could be some sort of link between the Pyramids in Egypt to the temple designs of Hindus? Just wondering though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarva gattah Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Hmm ... Forgive my interruption. But looking at the design of the model of the temple (picture by Vigraha and Theist - Yes, I know it's the same), one thought have crossed my mind. This model, as well as most of the Gopurums (tower in Hindu temples) were designed like that of the Pyramid. Is it possible that there could be some sort of link between the Pyramids in Egypt to the temple designs of Hindus? Just wondering though. Just for the record because your comment can be taken in two ways, Theist Maharaj is from Berkeley and Vigraha Anudasa is from Wagga Wagga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalJi Posted August 26, 2008 Report Share Posted August 26, 2008 Hey guys did you know that nobody except for Bhavanandas friends supports this design? Hari Sauri was sannyasa cela of Bhavananda xGoswami as Prabhupadakripa xSwami, Sadbhuja was a disciple of Bhavananda:-) (the favorite one?), Sucih das as well is a disciple of Bhavananda, (who gave him the name), Satadanya is his friend, and the last but not the least the wife of Ambarish is also a disciple of the same Bhavananda? Is there anyone who is not under his wing who supports this design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalJi Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 What is amazing, is that after all resolutions of the CPO the main man, Bhavananda was never even repremanded for violence to the gurukulis, namely Ananda and now he is being called the ISKCON artistic director. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted August 29, 2008 Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 http://www.infocustech.com/skyscrapers/worlds%20tallest%20buildings.jpg There're actually lots of buildings which look like the Capitol style of architecture. Could be that people are anyway used to this type of building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayaPrabhupada Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 I am sure there are lots of buildings like that since they are all copies of St. Peter dome. Why would you copy it exactly if Prabhupada approved a different design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 I am sure there are lots of buildings like that since they are all copies of St. Peter dome. Why would you copy it exactly if Prabhupada approved a different design? Could be that most people don't care because they consider other things presently as more important. After all, such a huge building has a symbolic power of having achieved a global accomplishment - something like uniting Vaishnavas. When people find out that they have actually started to build it the problems will start not till then. Even ISKCONites are sceptical of how things will further develop especially in Europe and North America. For example once the greatest place of distributing Vaishnava literature, Switzerland, ISKCON sold the only temple which was actually the property of Gaura-Nitai. The Swiss government even granting Vaishnavism the status of recognized religion but still - no more harinam, no more bookdistribution and temple sold. Same in Germany, Austria, France, Italy. But building a huge victory monument in Mayapur? Doesnt make sense for 500 mio people all over Europe. Already it is reported that only Russians and Hindus come for the big festivals. The motive to build TVP is rather to attract local pilgrims who come and donate. But this is not what people expect from a global Sankirtan movement in the mood Prabhupada used to preach. Finally when you come there you'll find a place filled up with price tags everywhere. A Disneyland in the Holy Dham. With security personal at all the entrances because whenever people consider that something is nothing but a huge business there're getting envious and the temple residents living in permanent fear of assaults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayaPrabhupada Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Could be that most people don't care because they consider other things presently as more important. After all, such a huge building has a symbolic power of having achieved a global accomplishment - something like uniting Vaishnavas.''' A Disneyland in the Holy Dham. With security personal at all the entrances because whenever people consider that something is nothing but a huge business there're getting envious and the temple residents living in permanent fear of assaults. I do not think that people do not care. They do care, but not about some local temple rooms, but rather about where big money are being spent. Just see the IRGB statement here to see that people care (maybe not in Cz...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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