Avinash Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 What do scriptures say about this? Does a soul ever become bodyless? What about after liberation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 During the transition time, yes. But nonetheless after some time, they'll have to accept a material or a spiritual body, depending on deeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravindran Kesavan Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Dear Avinash Spirit by definition is opposite of matter. When we say spirit it means it is not matter it is not a body. Hence by definition spirit can and must exist in a bodyless state. If it cannot and does not then it is not a spirit but some form of matter. Spirit exists in bodyless state when it is liberated. Aftter liberation it has no body. That is what liberation means at the first place. Spirit freeying from its trapping in a body or in some mater. - that is what is liberation is. Even after death, the spirit is not supposed to be free from body. It is not bodyless as it is still trapped in subtle body. Though the physical gross body does not exist the subtle body in which its past karmas are stored goes with it. It cannot get rid of this body. If it does rebirth will not occur, as there is no karma left. It truely becomes bodyless at liberation when it merges with the Bhraman - the infinite universal spirit. K.Ravindran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 When it merges with Brahman, then we can say that it becomes bodyless. Or, we can also say that the entire universe becomes its body. Is it correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravindran Kesavan Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Dear Avinash, Perfect. But to say the universe is bhraman's body one must be careful of not commiting the mistake of dualism. there is no Bhraman and the universe asa two different entities. Because bhraman is ONE And it is fundamentaly a spirit - a form of consciousness. Hence the only sense that we make of the fact that everything is bhraman is to assume everything is consciousness. Matter exists in consciousness as a form of consciousness -like a dream. Dreem exists in mind and is of mind - nothing material or real but of pure mentel construction. Universe is a form of consciousness and arises in consciousness like a dream - that is why it is called maya. (Illusion) or Mitya( appearance).This is the only interpretation possible if we were to avoid dualism. Hence body and spirit, as two things, do not apply to bhraman - it is just one. So instead of assuming that it is a spirit with universe as its body, one needs to assume that it is just a bodyless spirit from which everything is conjured up like a dream. K.Ravindran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 What do scriptures say about this? Does a soul ever become bodyless? Yes and No..... Soul as having mind; no more. Soul as being the energy of that 'i' left upon existence; continues. What about after liberation? then each can 'create' life and know it is their life continuing; with clarity of understanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virakrsna Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 What is nitya baddha BODYLESS consciousness? What is the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman? The Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Impersonal Brahman is not a place where one goes; it is not some empty place or void, it is rather a dormant state of bodilyless consciousness the marginal living entities or souls in the baddha-jiva condition, go once they are free themselves from the ethereal and biological material bodies, provided by Maha-Vishnu FROM within his mahat-tattva creation. However this place is also just a further dream state seperate from the mahat-tattva the marginal living entity enters (as baddha-jiva dream manifestation) and is also a temporary state of consciousness one enters. This motionless individual inactive dreamless baddha-jiva consciousness within the impersonal aspect of the Bramajyoti, can also be active or energetic in the mahat-tattva (material creation) This nitya-baddha inferior self, or the secondary dreaming state of the marginal living entity, is actually a bodyless condition of the jiva until it is provided bodily form or a vessel for expressing their desires, provided by Maha Vishnu within his dream creation. This nitya-baddha bodilyless consciousness is the inferior dreaming condition that all marginal living entities can activate if they choose to use their free will to ‘dream’ of self importance and indulgence. Srila Prabhupada- "There are many energies, but they have been divided into three principal ones: the external energy, the internal energy, and the marginal energy. We living entities are the marginal energy. Marginal means that we may remain under the influence of the external energy or we may remain under the influence of the internal energy, as we like". From "The Journey of Self Discovery - His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada In other words, the marginal living entities secondary conscious projection is known as the baddha-jiva soul within the maha-tattva. The marginal living entity actually has two aspects of consciousness; one is 'eternal form'of sat, cit, ananda, Vigraha or ones perpetual Krishna Conscious bodily form (nitya-siddha) that is imperishable and never fades away, due to being eternally etsablished within the 'eternal present' of Goloka, while the other is a non-Krishna conscious dreaming bodilyless state (nitya-baddha) The living entities, as their nitya-siddha body, are properly situated within the Lord’s internal energy as a perpetual bodily servants that is known as ones perpetual 'Svarupa'. When the marginal living entity misuses their independence and try to act as enjoyers or lords; they are transferred to the material energy or mahat-tattva, not as their nitya siddha body, but as a secondary dreaming consciousness called nitya-baddha. The Lord has three basic energies: internal, external and marginal. The living entities don’t belong to the marginal energy, because they ARE the marginal energy or tatastha sakti, that is embodied in their original full constitutional foundation, which is expressed as nitya-siddha in their innovative perpetual position. Tatastha simply means the abilty to choice the land and the ocean or Goloka and the mahat-tattva. The The marginal is therefore known as "tatastha sakti" The nitya-baddha consciousness is the result of the jiva-tatastha executing its dormant free will to choose between Krsna and their own plans of existence. When the baddha-jiva lower self enters a dormant inactive state of consciousness, they can only enter the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, ONLY after being liberated from the mahat-tattva, which is really and factually the Impersonal aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti, or their own individual consciousness. That means, although we are properly situated within the Lord’s internal energy in our ‘svarupa’ body eternally beyond mundane time and space, we always have the propensity to misuse our independence and try to act as enjoyers or lords that immediately disqualifies us from being aware of our ‘svarupa’ body, and instead try to lord it over Krishna’s material energy that is under the jurisdiction of the sleeping and dreaming Maha-Vishnu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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