Idea for a new forum

[theist]

Spiritual Discussions is by it's name and intent supposed to be open to anyone to discuss anything spiritual. Of course we know that Christians and Muslims who are even perceived (rightly or wrongly) to be looking to convert others to their points of view are soon run off the forum by the participants or by the Moderators. Some have been simple trouble makers but even they are tolerable if they avoid overt offenses against the others teachers. Actual these types end up providing good arguments to shoot down showing the superiority of realization in Indian Theism.

 

But there is another type of aparadhi who seems to fit right in because they quote from sastras and acaryas well known and respected by all Vaisnava lines even if one is not in ttal agreement with all of their conclusions and chooses to persue Bhakti through another disciplic line.

 

These aparadhis feel quite free to demean the principle teachers of GV even up to Mahaprabhu quite opening. The GV's here when asked to substantiate a their position by quoting their chosen acaryas are most of sunjected to some form of ridicule directed at them or worse directed towards their spiritual masters. I am sickened by this being allowed to continue by our Moderators whose responsibility is to maintain civility on these boards.

 

This despite the fact that these same characters have boards here at AF dedicated to their own particular branch of Vaisnavism be it Sri, Madhva or whatever.

 

 

I am even more proud of the GV's here who have never once in all the years I have been haunting Audarya Fellowship responded in kind by speaking ill of any acaryas in any other Vaisnava line. Not once have I witnessed this. Talk about teaching by example. The unfortunate thing is the offensive ones take this meekness as weakness and simple pour more venom and toss more seeds of doubt into the GV camp.

 

The need to extend this courtesy to other GV's of differing camps is still in need of polishing but that more of an 'in the family' quarrel, one that needs to be resolved by not my subject in this post.

 

I am not going to tell the Moderators how to do their job. They wouldn't listen anyway as I have made this objection before many times and all that comes of it is my posts that make this point get deleted like my simple lament yesterday.

 

I would like to leave one positive suggestion instead in a effort to point my finger at the cure rather than just at the disease.

 

I see a need for there to be a board set aside for the many here that want to learn Indian Theism from the GV's in preference to all other options and are not specifically in Iskcon. They, Iskcon, have their dedicated board called Iskcon Internal and they should have a board free from the tresspass of someone like myself whom they would perceive only as a trouble maker.

 

I hope to be able to post and read the posts of theirs with being subjected to various aparadhis to the GV acaryas and indeed any true delivers of God consciousness to the people of this poor fallen planet.

 

As it is I have half the participants on my ignore list but I can still hear and feel the effects of the aparadha all over Spiritual Discussions. The ignore list is not solution enough.

 

Hare Krishna

[jinglebells]

Chaitanya Mahaprabhu taught that one must be more tolerant than a tree. So this is a very good chance for you to practice tolerance. Avoidance is not the solution, putting people on ignore is not the solution. You must face these things with firm faith in Krishna and guru.

[AncientMariner]

 

Chaitanya Mahaprabhu taught that one must be more tolerant than a tree. So this is a very good chance for you to practice tolerance. Avoidance is not the solution, putting people on ignore is not the solution. You must face these things with firm faith in Krishna and guru.

 

 

I agree with this. Never have seen the point in putting people on ignore.

[AncientMariner]

Personally I have come to the conclusion I don't do the whole aparadha thing anymore. I will let Krishna determine who is and who isn't committing aparadha. On an individual level a person is free to make that determination and choose not to listen etc. but as far as different groups accusing each other of aparadha, that just seems to be a whole can of worms that just isn't worth getting into because it seems to go on forever. People can end up crying aparadha on almost anything it seems when in reality it seems that Krishna will ultimately take care of aparadha anyway.

[theist]

 

Personally I have come to the conclusion I don't do the whole aparadha thing anymore. I will let Krishna determine who is and who isn't committing aparadha. On an individual level a person is free to make that determination and choose not to listen etc. but as far as different groups accusing each other of aparadha, that just seems to be a whole can of worms that just isn't worth getting into because it seems to go on forever. People can end up crying aparadha on almost anything it seems when in reality it seems that Krishna will ultimately take care of aparadha anyway.

 

I have to seriously question that approach AM. As individual souls we have free will. According to how we excercise that free will different results are obtained.

 

If I have a choice of drinking a glass of orange juice or a glass of poison and instead of actively choosing to drink the orange juice and instead let someone hand me poison and I drink it thinking "Oh, it's all the about the same, I'll let Krishna take care of it", do you think you will not experience the reaction that comes from drinking poison?

 

Perhaps we are thinking that aparadha is something less than a dangerous poison. That would be a huge mistake on our part.

[matarisvan]

Moderator,

 

Feel free to delete this post if you find it inappropriate.

 

Anyone who has spent some time on this forum should know that Hare Krishnas like theist are the biggest aparadhis here. They have no regard or respect for other people's beliefs. They have consistently mocked Advaita, Shaivas, Sai Baba and anything else they disagree with.

 

Is this not some kind of conceited attitude to turn around and accuse others of Aparadha while pretending to be perfect? Hare Krishnas like theist are narcissists at heart. They are happy as long as they can say and do as they wish but start whining when they receive similar treatment from others.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

 

As the saying goes, those who live in glass house should not throw stones,

I was once told to p---off for using the word 'it'

 

what a joke!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Bishadi]

is this an english lettered forum?

 

do I need to look up this "aparadhis" ............

 

or is it safe to say 'I r 1'

[Bishadi]

allow knowledge to grow...

 

heck of all the sects ooosually the compassionate are Vedas based

 

you all got the goods .... just go to the next level

 

or like they say to folk on their death bed .... go to the light

[shvu]

 

Moderator,

 

Feel free to delete this post if you find it inappropriate.

 

Anyone who has spent some time on this forum should know that Hare Krishnas like theist are the biggest aparadhis here. They have no regard or respect for other people's beliefs. They have consistently mocked Advaita, Shaivas, Sai Baba and anything else they disagree with.

 

Is this not some kind of conceited attitude to turn around and accuse others of Aparadha while pretending to be perfect? Hare Krishnas like theist are narcissists at heart. They are happy as long as they can say and do as they wish but start whining when they receive similar treatment from others.

 

One man's religious belief is another's Aparadha.

 

In asking the moderator to keep aparadhis out, one is essentially asking to allow only people who share one's religious belief to post and to ban everyone else.

 

Criticizing a doctrine is no different from criticizing the teacher. If criticizing HK Gurus like Bhakti Vinoda is aparadha, then the Hare Krishna criticism of other religious beliefs are aparadhas too. So let the HK who has not sinned thusly, cast the first stone.

 

Cheers

[AncientMariner]

 

I have to seriously question that approach AM. As individual souls we have free will. According to how we excercise that free will different results are obtained.

 

If I have a choice of drinking a glass of orange juice or a glass of poison and instead of actively choosing to drink the orange juice and instead let someone hand me poison and I drink it thinking "Oh, it's all the about the same, I'll let Krishna take care of it", do you think you will not experience the reaction that comes from drinking poison?

 

Perhaps we are thinking that aparadha is something less than a dangerous poison. That would be a huge mistake on our part.

 

 

The way I look at it in order to actually drink the poison you would have to believe what the other person is saying if you deem what they are saying is aparadha. I can understand if you want to ignore people you deem as committing aparadha but ultimately I have come to the conclusion that God is in charge of who is committing aparadha so there is no reason for me to get distressed about what people say. Its like that picture of Jada Bharata when those dacoits wanted to kill him. He wasn't worried at all he just maintained his faith in Krishna and I think that is the best approach not that I practice it very much.

[krsna]

Stop using the friggin' "F" word (Forum)!!!

[Dark Warrior]

 

This despite the fact that these same characters have boards here at AF dedicated to their own particular branch of Vaisnavism be it Sri, Madhva or whatever

 

Why do I get the feeling that this thread is directed towards me, primarily?

 

For the record, I have never posted derogatory comments in a thread that is purely dedicated to Gaudiya Vaishnavism. If a thread is started by someone glorifying Bhaktivinoda Thakura or Sri Chaitanya, or is started to discuss the philosophy of Achintya Bheda Abheda, I have never needlessly posted in it.

 

For that matter, I respect Sri Chaitanya and Gaudiya Vaishnavism. I simply want to know if what Theist propagates is Gaudiya Vaishnavism or not.

 

However, Theist's threads have been to solely propagate Christianity as something that is linked to Vaishnavism. Hence, I post in there to correct this view. In reply, Theist or cBrahma post some quote by Bhaktivinoda Thakura in support of their views.

 

I respond by saying Bhaktivinoda Thakura's views are not strictly in line with traditional Vaishnavism. Then, Theist responds by saying, it is 'aparadha'.

 

Notice, I have never attacked someone like Bhaktivinoda Thakura. I was merely stating that his views are radically different from what Vedantins perceive to be Vaishnavism. Furthermore, I did not start the criticism of Sri Thakura, but was rather responding to quotes posted by Theist and cBrahma from Thakura's works.

 

For instance, recently someone started a thread glorifying Thakura's works. I never posted there because I respect their faith. However, when Thakura's works become relevant to someone's debate, one needs to assess it.

 

It should be noted that the persons who claim that I am abusing the likes of Thakura are the same ones who have started threads inquiring as to whether, 'the holy name is contaminated in the lips of mayavadis', although they relate an unvedic religion like Christianity to Vedanta. Although I neither support nor endorse Advaita philosophy, Vaishnavas have always recognised Sri Sankara's line as Vedantic and worthy of debate.

[theist]

 

The way I look at it in order to actually drink the poison you would have to believe what the other person is saying if you deem what they are saying is aparadha. I can understand if you want to ignore people you deem as committing aparadha but ultimately I have come to the conclusion that God is in charge of who is committing aparadha so there is no reason for me to get distressed about what people say. Its like that picture of Jada Bharata when those dacoits wanted to kill him. He wasn't worried at all he just maintained his faith in Krishna and I think that is the best approach not that I practice it very much.

 

To each his own. Poison acts rather one believes it will or not. Hearing is drinking. If one sips something and gets a bad taste then he spits it out, washes his mouth and drinks no more. Continuing to drink means a sure poisoning.

[mahak]

Nice try, theist, but kali yuga remains as a world of chaos, quarrel, and confusion. These three things are present especially in religious circles, so we have staunch disciples of Prabhupada who hate each other, and even if they like each other, their sub-gurus hate other sub-gurus, and it all goes to waste.

 

As far as the aparadha trip goes, I have always been amazed when a neophyte calls another neophyte an offender. Duuuuhhhh!!! The definition of the kanistha adhikari stage of bhakti is "the offensive stage". I have never seen Vaisnava aparadha on these forums, never. All Ive seen is inquisitiveness mixed with arrogance of party spirit, defensiveness towards ones particular temporary philosophical fixation (say that three times fast). Just like the guy crying about how devotees continually decry sai baba, advaita, et al. Of course, we all decry everyone but who we want to impress, with what? I dont know. I cant be guru krpas boy unless I offend siddha. If I think rtvik is a crock of man-made, prabhupada cut and paste out of context run on sentences, the rtviks put me on the list of unfavorables, If I become rocana dasa's friend, the gurus of ISKCON will never accept me (whew, that was close, thanks for your friendship, rocana).

 

Aparadha means one who is fixed up in Krsna Consciousness (madhyama adhikari) takes a very disturbing turn and suicidally gives up all common sense. Other than a few of us like Sri Paramadwaiti Swami and a few other rare commenters on these forums, this is a place for kanistha adhikaris. We are all, by design, offenders, but aparadha means falling down from an exalted platform, which we have never existed on.

 

Srila (AC Bhaktivedanta Swami) Prabhupada was quite clear in his example. If he was fanatic about the Aparadha (like those who use the word as an end of debate weapon), he would have maybe three or four disciples. But he had thousands, so this means that he initiated offenders to the Holy Name by most foolish definitions used on the net. But Srila Prabhupada has faith (sraddha) in sadhana bhakti, knowing that sick folks, when taking medicine, gradually get better.

 

Cure? Mauna, silence. Bettah yet, Harinama Samkirtana. Infection? Endless casting pearls before swine, preaching to the faithless, trying to get a member of leary's Brotherhood of Eternal Light to mellow out and chant, only to get their typical response "Naming it is gaming is brother".

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[hindustani]

If one can understand and respect each other well there is no need for any new forum,if not then 1000 forums will still be insuficient.

[AncientMariner]

 

Nice try, theist, but kali yuga remains as a world of chaos, quarrel, and confusion. These three things are present especially in religious circles, so we have staunch disciples of Prabhupada who hate each other, and even if they like each other, their sub-gurus hate other sub-gurus, and it all goes to waste.

 

As far as the aparadha trip goes, I have always been amazed when a neophyte calls another neophyte an offender. Duuuuhhhh!!! The definition of the kanistha adhikari stage of bhakti is "the offensive stage". I have never seen Vaisnava aparadha on these forums, never. All Ive seen is inquisitiveness mixed with arrogance of party spirit, defensiveness towards ones particular temporary philosophical fixation (say that three times fast). Just like the guy crying about how devotees continually decry sai baba, advaita, et al. Of course, we all decry everyone but who we want to impress, with what? I dont know. I cant be guru krpas boy unless I offend siddha. If I think rtvik is a crock of man-made, prabhupada cut and paste out of context run on sentences, the rtviks put me on the list of unfavorables, If I become rocana dasa's friend, the gurus of ISKCON will never accept me (whew, that was close, thanks for your friendship, rocana).

 

Aparadha means one who is fixed up in Krsna Consciousness (madhyama adhikari) takes a very disturbing turn and suicidally gives up all common sense. Other than a few of us like Sri Paramadwaiti Swami and a few other rare commenters on these forums, this is a place for kanistha adhikaris. We are all, by design, offenders, but aparadha means falling down from an exalted platform, which we have never existed on.

 

Srila (AC Bhaktivedanta Swami) Prabhupada was quite clear in his example. If he was fanatic about the Aparadha (like those who use the word as an end of debate weapon), he would have maybe three or four disciples. But he had thousands, so this means that he initiated offenders to the Holy Name by most foolish definitions used on the net. But Srila Prabhupada has faith (sraddha) in sadhana bhakti, knowing that sick folks, when taking medicine, gradually get better.

 

Cure? Mauna, silence. Bettah yet, Harinama Samkirtana. Infection? Endless casting pearls before swine, preaching to the faithless, trying to get a member of leary's Brotherhood of Eternal Light to mellow out and chant, only to get their typical response "Naming it is gaming is brother".

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

That just about says it all. Its a viscious circle that is just not worth entering. I will let Krishna sort it all out.

 

 

 

Cheers

[theist]

 

As far as the aparadha trip goes, I have always been amazed when a neophyte calls another neophyte an offender. Duuuuhhhh!!! The definition of the kanistha adhikari stage of bhakti is "the offensive stage". I have never seen Vaisnava aparadha on these forums, never.

 

You have got to be kidding me Mahak. First you say knanistha means offender then you say you have never heard any offenses. So are you saying there are no kanistha's?

 

Repeatedly hearing offenses is an offense and that is my main problem. The ones I commit through written word are there but hearing them has become a greater mountain to get over.

 

 

We are all, by design, offenders, but aparadha means falling down from an exalted platform, which we have never existed on.

 

You will have to explain where you got this idea. I have never heard it before. Surely that is a partial defintiton but what about aparadha being a block to arrive at an exhalted position in the first place.

 

I am not talking about somebody calling me a name or even you or any of us regulars around here but when Maha-bhavatas are repeatedly dissed (not talking about having a different opinion) I call that an aparadha.

 

I guess we will both live or die by our definitions.

 

I will no longer be causal about this in my own life.

[theist]

 

If one can understand and respect each other well there is no need for any new forum,if not then 1000 forums will still be insuficient.

 

Not if it is clearly designated as a GV section and is properly moderated. I don't really think it will happen. For myself I amresigned to leaving this Spiritual Disscussion board.

[theist]

 

That just about says it all. Its a viscious circle that is just not worth entering. I will let Krishna sort it all out.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

If you hear aparadha then you have entered the vicious circle. You are a nice well spoken gentleman AM you don't verbal offend anybody.

 

You may want to research on the effects of 'hearing aparadha' however, and see what you come up with.

[hindustani]

 

Not if it is clearly designated as a GV section and is properly moderated. I don't really think it will happen. For myself I amresigned to leaving this Spiritual Disscussion board.

One should use Reputation feature available on forum,I am thinking to use it from now on.

[AncientMariner]

 

If you hear aparadha then you have entered the vicious circle. You are a nice well spoken gentleman AM you don't verbal offend anybody.

 

You may want to research on the effects of 'hearing aparadha' however, and see what you come up with.

 

 

I admit I basically have to cover my ears so to speak sometimes especially when I hear Vaisnavas diss on Jesus just because my personal belief is that Jesus was an exalted personality which apparently a lot of Vaisnavas do not believe but I do not believe in censorship. If the forum moderators want to censor people that is their perogative as I am only a guest on this forum and overall I think it is a very good forum. Don't mean to shoot down your idea or anything and I truly hope you do not leave this forum because I have enjoyed your realizations and honesty probably more than any other poster on this forum.

[shvu]

There are already two sections (from a very long time) - the Hare Krishna section and the other being the ISKCON section. For some unknown reason, these whiners refuse to post there and choose to post on the more general spiritual section and try to monopolize it based on their own narrow set of beliefs.

 

Theist has countless times posted on this general spiritual forum that Mayavada is poison. But when he was given a dose of his own medicine, he now wants to stay away from "Aparadhis". He can say what he wishes, but others cannot.

 

He can frst start by keeping his nose out of Mayavada. That would be a first big step in advancing himself spiritually.

 

Cheers

[AncientMariner]

 

There are already two sections (from a very long time) - the Hare Krishna section and the other being the ISKCON section. For some unknown reason, these whiners refuse to post there and choose to post on the more general spiritual section and try to monopolize it based on their own narrow set of beliefs.

 

Theist has countless times posted on this general spiritual forum that Mayavada is poison. But when he was given a dose of his own medicine, he now wants to stay away from "Aparadhis". He can say what he wishes, but others cannot.

 

He can frst start by keeping his nose out of Mayavada. That would be a first big step in advancing himself spiritually.

 

Cheers

 

 

Well in all fairness Prabhupada does pretty much teach that mayavada is poison if I am not mistaken. I don't get offended by mayavadis personally because once you see through their idea that everyone is God or God is not a person or that Krishna cannot incarnate in his transcendental form in the material world it becomes almost laughable from a Vedic perspective. The only real sad thing is most spiritualists in the modern world do seem to be mayavadis on some level so I do think they are misleading our civilization on some level so there is a danger from mayavadis in my opinion but who knows for sure.

 

 

Cheers

[shvu]

 

Well in all fairness Prabhupada does pretty much teach that mayavada is poison if I am not mistaken. I don't get offended by mayavadis personally because once you see through their idea that everyone is God or God is not a person or that Krishna cannot incarnate in his transcendental form in the material world it becomes almost laughable from a Vedic perspective. The only real sad thing is most spiritualists in the modern world do seem to be mayavadis on some level so I do think they are misleading our civilization on some level so there is a danger from mayavadis in my opinion but who knows for sure.

 

 

Cheers

 

AM,

 

That is the point.

 

If A is fine with criticizing B's belief as poison on a general spiritual forum, then is it not natural that B will consider A's belief as nonsense?

 

Why get offended unless A thinks he has some special privilege over everone else when it comes to criticism? In which case, if there is any problem here, it has to be with A and not B. If it is important to A to periodically pick faults with others, then A should stay inside the Hare Krishna section.

 

Cheers