Does the hindus actually...

[Lynet]

...for real belief in the mythology of hinduism?

 

 

 

(my english is bad (I read it better) so I just let the post be short )

[Avinash]

Some believe, some do not believe at all, some say that some part is historically correct but there have been later day interpolations and some say that the stories were never intended to be taken as facts but to teach some morales.

[bhaktajan]

Yes "Real, Orthdox, devout Hindus" believe in their own Scripitures as translated from the original sanskrit by the best of the best yoga scholars that, thank god, outlived all the conquests of the past two millenniums.

 

Do you follow what I saying?

 

If not then just remember that your own life story is promted by one or a combo or all of the following driving factors:

 

--Transcendental promptings, or

--Celestrial promptings, or

--Govenmental promptings, or

--Provincial promptings, or

--Cityhall promptings, or

--Domicile promptings, or

--Intellectual promptings, or

--Physical promptings, or

--Egotistical promptings, or

--Mundane promptings, or

--Petty promptings, or

--Negligible promptings, or

--Un-seen promptings, or

--Time is of the essence promptings, or

--No promptings, or

--Bhakti-yoga aka Devotional Path of Yoga aka Krishna Consciousness.

 

What do you believe?

[narayanadasa]

How do you prove something (or rather anything) that happened in the past is true? You cant go back in time and see right? Even seeing can be deceiving.. right?

 

So, if archieology, local practises/customs, local literature and scripture all point to something common we usually take it to be true. Believers dont call it mythology but call it an historical fact.

 

Some dont accept it, but in my opinion they dont believe in anything else except for what they believe in (if at all they do).

 

 

...for real belief in the mythology of hinduism?

 

 

 

(my english is bad (I read it better) so I just let the post be short )

[bhaktajan]

A Wise old Indian once taught me the maxim:

"How do you prove something (or rather anything) that happened in the past is true, for example, 'HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO YOUR FATHER REALLY IS?' "

 

Answer: "Ask your mother" --this Maxim is absolute. If it is not possible that someone can provide such answers, then there is a term that exists: "Les Miserables", which aptly describes the fate of Souls in the material world.

 

All souls are Prisoners in the prison of the Material world, birth after birth, eating/sleeping/mating/defending with out the benefit of the absolute path toward the one and only "Suprema Personalidad de Dios", aka, Bhagavan Sri Krishna --as He is revealed by the Bhagavad-gita and the Srimad Bhagavatam and indirectly addressed in the impersonal expostions known as the Upanisads --this is the absolute nature of a bonefide Yoga-Guru's teachings: to stop being being a Cartoon personality birth after birth in an objectively real existential cosmos of floating souls with out an absolute port of call. This is the point where Bhakti-yoga must go into effect by way of one's own personal gumption and perserverence.

 

If you understand what I am talking about please reciprocate by acknowledging my sanity, or be a good chap and tell me otherwise.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

...for real belief in the mythology of hinduism?

No, we differ from every other religion in the known world in that none of us actually believe anything written in our own scriptures. We just pretend like we do for fun.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

--Bhakti-yoga aka Devotional Path of Yoga aka Krishna Consciousness.

 

You do realize that the Bhakti movement exists independent of Vaishnavism and Krishna Consciousness/ISKCON, yes?

[bhaktajan]

Do I realize that the Bhakti movement exists independent of Vaishnavism and Krishna Consciousness/ISKCON? Yeah, i guess so.

 

Similarly Hindus exists independent of Hinduism too, yes?

or

Capitalism exists independent of America, the Euro, the Mafisos, the Yen and world revolutions, no?

 

But it is thanks to the spirit of those who went before us, that we'd best to follow, and so, up-hold the greater good.

Ha cha?

 

 

 

PS: waddaya mean? is that what you mean? I mean what do you mean? Well, you know what I mean. Maybe. Ah, what was the question?

[jinglebells]

 

A Wise old Indian once taught me the maxim:

"How do you prove something (or rather anything) that happened in the past is true, for example, 'HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO YOUR FATHER REALLY IS?' "

 

 

DNA test?

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Do I realize that the Bhakti movement exists independent of Vaishnavism and Krishna Consciousness/ISKCON? Yeah, i guess so.

 

Similarly Hindus exists independent of Hinduism too, yes?

How? Do Catholics exist independent of Catholicism? Do Buddhists exist independent of Buddhism? Do Jews exist independent of Judaism? Well, I suppose there are aspects of their lives that don't require their faith, but they wouldn't be Hindus, Catholics, Buddhists, and Jews without Hinduism, Catholicism, Buddhism, and Judaism.

HOWEVER, Bhakti can easily exist completely independent of Vaishnavism. Bhakti can be expressed in Shaktism, Shaivism, etc...

Not to mention that Bhakti has existed for thousands of years before ISKCON. So, they are definitely seperate entities. ISKCON relies on Bhakti. She doesn't rely on ISKCON.

 

or

Capitalism exists independent of America, the Euro, the Mafisos, the Yen and world revolutions, no?

Does Bhakti exist independently of Shaivism, Shaktism, and Vaishnavism?

 

But it is thanks to the spirit of those who went before us, that we'd best to follow, and so, up-hold the greater good.

Ha cha?

The Nayanars are just as old as the Alvars... so we don't know who 'took' the bhakti movement from who.

 

PS: waddaya mean? is that what you mean? I mean what do you mean? Well, you know what I mean. Maybe. Ah, what was the question?

I was pointing out that there are bhaktas that aren't Vaishnavas. There are Shaiva Bhaktas and Shakta Bhaktas as well.

In your list you put "Bhakti/Krishna Consciousness". But, Bhakti can also be Shakti Consciousness or Shiva Consciousness.

So, the point of all this is that Bhakti IS. She exists independent of every religion, yet She is in every religion.

[bhaktajan]

 

DNA test?

 

Yes. But Wrong! Unless your mother were a cheating liar who "cannot be trusted to tell the truth" . . .

 

I asked: 'HOW TO KNOW WHO YOUR FATHER IS?

I gave the Answer: "Ask your mother" --this Maxim is absolute.

 

------

jinglebells, If it is not possible for you that your mother can provide such answers,

 

then there is a term that exists: "Les Miserables",

which aptly describes the fate of the majority jinglebell(s) & jinglebellette(s) in the material world.

Not to be confused with the minority of the Beautiful & Rich people along with their store of Good-karma.

 

-------------------------

 

The above is thee Metaphor for the quest for absolutely true spiritual knowledge. The majaority of worlds populations are not interested in any spiritual quest.

 

If they are, there are two paths: ulterior motively driven for self-angrandisment; or, selflessly driven service to Godhead.

 

Hardly one knows in truth the Personality of Godhead--because He is absolute and there is an absolute path that must be followed to get his audience.

[bhaktajan]

{What I think is that it can be claimed that Bhakti exists outside of Krishna-Yoga ----but that is subjective prapaganda. Unless your prayers are done in private quarters.}

 

 

Does Bhakti exist independently of Shaivism, Shaktism, and Vaishnavism?

{Bhakti means devotion, that is all. Krishna is 'defacto' setting the standard in the Gita. Thus, Bhakti-yoga is all about the path toward Krishna.}

 

I was pointing out that there are bhaktas that aren't Vaishnavas.

{Then it should not be called Bhakti-yoga. Use of the word devotion is OK, but Bhaktas are devotees of Krishna. Yes, semantics, but, as it is semantics.}

 

There are Shaiva Bhaktas and Shakta Bhaktas as well.

{This is a perfect example of semantics --your catagory differs from Krishna's catagorisation, and thus such differences would be listed in a seperate directory of Yoga schools.

I can agree that devotion to Brahmaji's children can be made into a religious entity and that can be called Shaiva-Yoga & Shakta Yoga.

Just as illegitamate Theives are un-arguably also "Buisnessmen" still they are outside the accepted means of commerce.}

 

In your list you put "Bhakti/Krishna Consciousness".

But, Bhakti can also be Shakti Consciousness or Shiva Consciousness.

{No, I think it is accurately said:

"Yoga"-- can also be Shakti Consciousness or Shiva Consciousness.

Absolute reality is indisputable-- That's what makes the world go round--$$$--all else are opportunists in different guises.

 

Yes, Swiss bank & money launderers are liberal minded --but unethical and against the common good of the common populace.}

 

 

So, the point of all this is that Bhakti IS.

{Bhakti means devotion, that is all.

Krishna is 'defacto' setting the standard in the Gita.

Thus, Bhakti-yoga is all about the path toward Krishna.

 

NOTE: For metaphors to work, the metaphor must prove absolutely parallel to that which it is compared to, in all regards. I will admit there are exceptions, but only in 'irregular' examples.}

 

She exists independent of every religion, yet She is in every religion.

{Bhakti means devotion. Obese people are devoted to food.

Drug addicts are devoted to drugs.

Playboy Bunnies are dovoted to their vocation too.

 

This discussion is an example of "sematics" because it is omitting the other side of the argument (my assertions) namely, the established definition as it is.

 

Ironically the points of debate you offer me are the same words that I would agree with--yet you've not presupposed to use my logic in addressing my own logic; which, lets face it, is known to you.

 

If I argue with a Shivite, as to, who is Supreme--the Shivite must know that I am already aware of every bit of the minutia of his arguments.

 

Ironically, I already am on his side from the start.

Whereas I am trying to pull him from out of the Ocean tides--and he 'fights' with me telling me all sorts of things that are not helpful as I attempt a burdensome rescue of him.

But he says he needs no rescue--and thus I say why are you then screaming out here in the waves?}

 

PS:

It is actually about "I love you and our mutual brothers & Sisters here in the material world--better than You do."

 

This is called transcendental competion--a skill that requires absolute expertise.

 

Someone posted 'death statistics' from the last Century--where were the experts that I am referring to during the dark times of the last century?

 

Learning how to be a wellwisher in the school of hard knocks,

Bhaktajan

[jinglebells]

Radhey, relax! It's Vaishnavism to deny the supremacy of gods other than Vishnu. Jan is simply doing what his teacher-SP-has taught him to. His style also reflects that, can't blame him.

[HaraHareisOne]

Relax RadheyRadhey108,

 

Can't you see Mr Bhaktajan is horse with blinkers on. He do not what is bhakti is all about. He is a parrot which repeat whatever SB says. According to Srila Prabhupad, 'Women are Stupid' (Gita as it is) and only in his book is this explanation wriiten, not in any of other Mahatma's book.

If that is true, then the women in his generation are pitiful. Truth is devotion and God reside in any bodies, male or female. Another blunder is - in the Nectar of Devotion - it clearly stated that you should pray to Lord Ganesh first. But our Bhaktajan will argue stupidly and will come with a rdicules excuse.

 

You are wright, RadheyRadhey108.

[bhaktajan]

Can't you see Mr Bhaktajan is horse with blinkers on.

He do not what is bhakti is all about.

Then you please tell us what you have learned? Not!

 

He is a parrot which repeat whatever SB says.

Thank you. Sukadeva [speaker of the Bhagavatam] "Parrots" everthing he says.

 

The bona fide spiritual master, who has also heard the sruti-mantras, or Vedic knowledge, from his undisturbed acarya, never presents anything that is not mentioned in the Vedic literature.

 

Nowhere in authentic scriptures is it said that one will ultimately reach the same goal by doing anything or worshiping anyone. Such foolish theories are offered by self-made “spiritual masters” who have no connection with the parampara, the bona fide system of disciplic succession.

 

The bona fide spiritual master cannot say that all paths lead to the same goal and that anyone can attain this goal by his own mode of worship of the demigods or of the Supreme or whatever.

 

Any common man can very easily understand that a person can reach his destination only when he has purchased a ticket for that destination.

 

The simple way to worship the Supreme Lord in this age of disturbance is to hear and chant about His great activities.

 

The mental speculators, however, think that the activities of the Lord are imaginary; therefore they refrain from hearing of them and invent some word jugglery without any substance to divert the attention of the innocent masses of people.

 

Instead of hearing of the activities of Lord Sri Krsna, such pseudo spiritual masters advertise themselves by inducing their followers to sing about them.

 

In modern times the number of such pretenders has increased considerably, and it has become a problem for the pure devotees of the Lord to save the masses of people from the unholy propaganda of these pretenders and pseudo incarnations.

 

The Upaninads indirectly draw our attention to the primeval Lord, Çré Krsna, but the Bhagavad-gita, which is the summary of all the Upaninads, directly points to Sri Krsna.

 

Therefore one should hear about Sri Krsna as He is by hearing from the Bhagavad-gita or Srimad-Bhagavatam, and in this way one’s mind will gradually be cleansed of all contaminated things.

[bhaktajan]

RE: Sarasvati-devi's [bharati, Wife of Lord Brahma] mentioned in the Bhagavatam [i had a miss-print] see: (SB 4.15.16, 3.12.27, 3.12.49, 3.12.52, 3.12.57, & 6.18.30)

 

I still have to find the root source of the word "Bhakti/Bhakta"

[RadheyRadhey108]

I'll post this again, since you put this on (at least) two threads:

 

1. How does this...:

Lord Brahma presented King Prithu with a protective garment made of spiritual knowledge. Bharati, the wife of Brahma, gave him a transcendental necklace. Lord Vishnu presented him with a Sudarshan chakra, and Lord Vishnu's wife, the goddess of fortune, gave him imperishable opulences.

--Bhagavata Purana 4.15.16

...prove that Saraswati is a demigoddess? Sri Lakshmi Devi Ma and Sri Narayana are also mentioned in this verse, so are they demigods, too?

 

So, does this include Radha and Krishna?:

Sage Kardama, husband of the great Devahuti, was manifested from the shadow of Brahma. Thus all became manifested from either the body or the mind of Brahma.

--Bhagavata Purana 3.12.27

If not, then how can you prove it is also not talking about Saraswati?

 

Again, how is this proving that Saraswati Ma is a demigoddess?:

Thereafter Brahma accepted another body, in which sex life was not forbidden, and thus he engaged himself in the matter of further creation.

--Bhagavata Purana 3.12.49

 

And, how exactly does this prove that Saraswati is a demigoddess?:

While he was thus absorbed in contemplation and was observing the supernatural power, two other forms were generated from his body. They are still celebrated as the body of Brahma.

--Bhagavata Purana 3.12.52

Prabhupada, who is your teacher, just says they are the bodies of the first man and first woman... he doesn't even name them, and neither does the scripture.

 

Where does this verse even mention Saraswati?:

The father, Manu, handed over his first daughter, Akuti, to the sage Ruci, the middle daughter, Devahuti, to the sage Kardama, and the youngest, Prashuti, to Daksha. From them, all the world filled with population.

--Bhagavata Purana 3.12.57

Saraswati doesn't even live on earth. She lives in Brahma-Loka.

 

Once again, no mention of Saraswati/Bharati:

In the beginning of creation, Lord Brahma, the father of the living entities of the universe, saw that all the living entities were unattached. To increase population, he then created woman from the better half of man's body, for woman's behavior carries away a man's mind.

--Bhagavata Purana 6.18.30

 

2. Bhakti means [religious] devotion. Religious devotion (bhakti) can be expressed to any deity. Someone who chooses devotion as their way of unification with God is a Bhakta, regardless of whether they are Shakta, Shaiva, or Vaishnava.

[HaraHareisOne]

Thanks RadheyRadhey108 - for your well explained on Bhakti -

 

Bhakti means [religious] devotion. Religious devotion (bhakti) can be expressed to any deity. Someone who chooses devotion as their way of unification with God is a Bhakta, regardless of whether they are Shakta, Shaiva, or Vaishnava.

 

<!-- / message -->Mr Bhaktajan - Please explained to us why does one of your so called Vedic book - Nectar of Devotion clearly states that you have to pray to lord Ganesh firstbefore you begin your Aarti. (Please don't go around the bush)

I don't want to write more cause you will go to other topic rather than this.

 

May SivaKrsna bless you.

 

 

<!-- sig -->

[bhaktajan]

1--Bhakti means [religious] devotion. Religious devotion (bhakti) can be expressed to any deity. Someone who chooses devotion as their way of unification with God is a Bhakta, regardless of whether they are Shakta, Shaiva, or Vaishnava.

 

<!-- / message -->WHERE IS THE SASTRIC TEXT, for your definition of Bhakti [we know what it means]?

----

 

2--Someone who chooses devotion as their way of unification with God is a Bhakta, regardless of whether they are Shakta, Shaiva, or Vaishnava.

 

Krishna calls those "Bhaktas"[?] who devote them selves to "Superior Beings" [The Devas--Right? ~ Not Mahatma(s)? Right? ~ Not ones own Guru? Right? ~ Not a Bollywood Idol? ~ The president of the United States of America? Right? ~ Not Osama Bin Ladin? Right? ---So many demogouges not enough time to devote oneself to all of them. Right?].

 

----

 

3A)--HHIO, In my opinion you have to pray to lord Ganesh first before you begin your Aarti --to Krishna/Vishnu -- This is due to "Family Tradition", As Arjuna reminds us of our mutual Societal Dharma:

 

Bhagavata-Purana 1.5.36 Purport by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami:

. . . According to the Vedic rites, even in the worship of some demigods like Indra, Brahmä, Sarasvaté and Gaëeça, the system is that in all circumstances the representation of Viñëu must be there as yajïeçvara, or the controlling power of such sacrifices. It is recommended that a particular demigod be worshiped for a particular purpose, but still the presence of Viñëu is compulsory in order to make the function proper.

 

----

Bhagavad-gita 1.43: O Krsna, maintainer of the people, I have heard by disciplic succession that those who destroy family traditions dwell always in hell.

 

3B)--I did a word search of GANESH in A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami's Translation and Purports to Nectar of Devotion -- the result:

"Query 'Ganesh' generated no hits". So I tried, 'Ganesha', with same result.

 

 

WAIT WAIT WAIT !!!

 

I did a word search of "GANESA" -- the result:

 

 

Chapter 27

Dancing

 

While watching the rasa dance performed by Lord Krsna and the gopis, Lord Siva beheld the beautiful face of Krsna and immediately began to dance and beat upon his small dindima drum. While Lord Siva was dancing in ecstasy, his eldest son, Ganesa, joined him.

-

Here's something, but it's from the Bhagavata-Purana:

 

 

 

Bhagavata-Purana 1.2.26:

 

 

Those who are serious about liberation are certainly nonenvious, and they respect all. Yet they reject the horrible and ghastly forms of the demigods and worship only the all-blissful forms of Lord Viñëu and His plenary portions.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead Çré Kåñëa, who is the original person of the Viñëu categories, expands Himself in two different categories, namely integrated plenary portions and separated parts and parcels. The separated parts and parcels are the servitors, and the integrated plenary portions of viñëu-tattvas are the worshipful objects of service.

All demigods who are empowered by the Supreme Lord are also separated parts and parcels. They do not belong to the categories of viñëu-tattva. The viñëu-tattvas are living beings equally as powerful as the original form of the Personality of Godhead, and They display different categories of power in consideration of different times and circumstances.

The separated parts and parcels are powerful by limitation. They do not have unlimited power like the viñëu-tattvas. Therefore, one should never classify the viñëu-tattvas, or the plenary portions of Näräyaëa, the Personality of Godhead, in the same categories with the parts and parcels. If anyone does so he becomes at once an offender by the name päñaëòé. In the age of Kali many foolish persons commit such unlawful offenses and equalize the two categories.

The separated parts and parcels have different positions in the estimation of material powers, and some of them are like Käla-bhairava, Çmaçäna-bhairava, Çani, Mahäkälé and Caëòikä. These demigods are worshiped mostly by those who are in the lowest categories of the mode of darkness or ignorance.

Other demigods, like Brahmä, Çiva, Sürya, Gaëeça and many similar deities, are worshiped by men in the mode of passion, urged on by the desire for material enjoyment. But those who are actually situated in the mode of goodness (sattva-guëa) of material nature worship only viñëu-tattvas. Viñëu-tattvas are represented by various names and forms, such as Näräyaëa, Dämodara, Vämana, Govinda and Adhokñaja.

The qualified brähmaëas worship the viñëu-tattvas represented by the çälagräma-çilä, and some of the higher castes like the kñatriyas and vaiçyas also generally worship the viñëu-tattvas.

Highly qualified brähmaëas situated in the mode of goodness have no grudges against the mode of worship of others. They have all respect for other demigods, even though they may look ghastly, like Käla-bhairava or Mahäkälé.

They know very well that those horrible features of the Supreme Lord are all different servitors of the Lord under different conditions, yet they reject the worship of both horrible and attractive features of the demigods, and they concentrate only on the forms of Viñëu because they are serious about liberation from the material conditions.

The demigods, even to the stage of Brahmä, the supreme of all the demigods, cannot offer liberation to anyone. Hiraëyakaçipu underwent a severe type of penance to become eternal in life, but his worshipful deity, Brahmä, could not satisfy him with such blessings.

Therefore Viñëu, and none else, is called mukti-päda, or the Personality of Godhead who can bestow upon us mukti, liberation. The demigods, being like other living entities in the material world, are all liquidated at the time of the annihilation of the material structure.

They are themselves unable to get liberation, and what to speak of giving liberation to their devotees. The demigods can award the worshipers some temporary benefit only, and not the ultimate one.

It is for this reason only that candidates for liberation deliberately reject the worship of the demigods, although they have no disrespect for any one of them.

--

 

HHIO,

You do realize I am bound to reply to you with the following Shloka in Mind:

 

 

 

 

Bhagavad-gita 3.27

 

 

So as not to disrupt the minds of ignorant men attached to the fruitive results of prescribed duties, a learned person should not induce them to stop work. Rather, by working in the spirit of devotion, he should engage them in all sorts of activities [for the gradual development of Krsna consciousness].

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah. That is the end of all Vedic rituals. All rituals, all performances of sacrifices, and everything that is put into the Vedas, including all direction for material activities, are meant for understanding Krsna, who is the ultimate goal of life.

 

But because the conditioned souls do not know anything beyond sense gratification, they study the Vedas to that end. But through fruitive activities and sense gratification regulated by the Vedic rituals one is gradually elevated to Krsna consciousness.

 

Therefore a realized soul in Krsna consciousness should not disturb others in their activities or understanding, but he should act by showing how the results of all work can be dedicated to the service of Krsna. The learned Krsna conscious person may act in such a way that the ignorant person working for sense gratification may learn how to act and how to behave.

 

Although the ignorant man is not to be disturbed in his activities, a slightly developed Krsna conscious person may directly be engaged in the service of the Lord without waiting for other Vedic formulas.

 

For this fortunate man there is no need to follow the Vedic rituals, because by direct Krsna consciousness one can have all the results one would otherwise derive from following one’s prescribed duties.

 

------

If you reply to me regarding my above statements please refer to them explicitly, for it is my logic that you may refer to, rather then pick and choose a sole word to center a counter-reply.

 

BTW, How many time did I manage to mention KRISHNA's name?

 

------

Lil Bit, Lil Bit of history:

 

 

SB 1.9.6-7P:

 

. . . Bädaräyaëa (Vyäsadeva): He is known as Kåñëa, Kåñëa-dvaipäyana, Dvaipäyana, Satyavaté-suta, Päräçarya, Paräçarätmaja, Bädaräyaëa, Vedavyäsa, etc.

 

He was the son of Mahämuni Paräçara in the womb of Satyavaté prior to her betrothal with Mahäräja Çantanu, the father of the great general Grandfather Bhéñmadeva. He is a powerful incarnation of Näräyaëa, and he broadcasts the Vedic wisdom to the world.

 

As such, Vyäsadeva is offered respects before one chants the Vedic literature, especially the Puräëas. Çukadeva Gosvämé was his son, and åñis like Vaiçampäyana were his disciples for different branches of the Vedas.

 

He is the author of the great epic Mahäbhärata and the great transcendental literature Bhägavatam. The Brahma-sütras—the Vedänta-sütras, or Bädaräyaëa-sütras—were compiled by him. Amongst sages he is the most respected author by dint of severe penances.

 

When he wanted to record the great epic Mahäbhärata for the welfare of all people in the age of Kali, he was feeling the necessity of a powerful writer who could take up his dictation.

 

By the order of Brahmäjé, Çré Gaëeçajé took up the charge of noting down the dictation on the condition that Vyäsadeva would not stop dictation for a moment. The Mahäbhärata was thus compiled by the joint endeavor of Vyäsa and Gaëeça.

By the order of his mother, Satyavaté, who was later married to Mahäräja Çantanu, and by the request of Bhéñmadeva, the eldest son of Mahäräja Çantanu by his first wife, the The Mahäbhärata was compiled by Vyäsadeva after the Battle of Kurukñetra and after the death of all the heroes of Mahäbhärata. It was first spoken in the royal assembly of Mahäräja Janamejaya, the son of Mahäräja Parékñit. . . .

------

 

 

 

SB 3.28.20

 

 

In fixing his mind on the eternal form of the Lord, the yogé should not take a collective view of all His limbs, but should fix the mind on each individual limb of the Lord.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

The word muni is very significant. Muni means one who is very expert in mental speculation or in thinking, feeling and willing. He is not mentioned here as a devotee or yogé. Those who try to meditate on the form of the Lord are called munis, or less intelligent, whereas those who render actual service to the Lord are called bhakti-yogés.

The thought process described below is for the education of the muni. In order to convince the yogé that the Absolute Truth, or Supreme Personality of Godhead, is never impersonal at any time, the following verses prescribe observing the Lord in His personal form, limb after limb.

To think of the Lord as a whole may sometimes be impersonal; therefore, it is recommended here that one first think of His lotus feet, then His ankles, then the thighs, then the waist, then the chest, then the neck, then the face and so on. One should begin from the lotus feet and gradually rise to the upper limbs of the transcendental body of the Lord.

 

 

 

SB 3.28.21

 

 

The devotee should first concentrate his mind on the Lord’s lotus feet, which are adorned with the marks of a thunderbolt, a goad, a banner and a lotus. The splendor of their beautiful ruby nails resembles the orbit of the moon and dispels the thick gloom of one’s heart.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

The Mäyävädé says that because one is unable to fix his mind on the impersonal existence of the Absolute Truth, one can imagine any form he likes and fix his mind on that imaginary form; but such a process is not recommended here.

Imagination is always imagination and results only in further imagination.

A concrete description of the eternal form of the Lord is given here. The Lord’s sole is depicted with distinctive lines resembling a thunderbolt, a flag, a lotus flower and a goad. The luster of His toenails, which are brilliantly prominent, resembles the light of the moon.

If a yogé looks upon the marks of the Lord’s sole and on the blazing brilliance of His nails, then he can be freed from the darkness of ignorance in material existence. This liberation is not achieved by mental speculation, but by seeing the light emanating from the lustrous toenails of the Lord. In other words, one has to fix his mind first on the lotus feet of the Lord if he wants to be freed from the darkness of ignorance in material existence.

 

 

 

SB 3.28.22

 

 

The blessed Lord Çiva becomes all the more blessed by bearing on his head the holy waters of the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comGanges</st1:place>, he begot three brilliant sons, whose names are Dhåtaräñöra, Päëòu and Vidura.

.

<font face=" /><st1:place w:st="on">Ganges</st1:place>, which has its source in the water that washed the Lord’s lotus feet. The Lord’s feet act like thunderbolts hurled to shatter the mountain of sin stored in the mind of the meditating devotee. One should therefore meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for a long time.

 

 

 

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>PURPORT

 

 

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>In this verse the position of Lord Çiva is specifically mentioned. The impersonalist suggests that the Absolute Truth has no form and that one can therefore equally imagine the form of Viñëu or Lord Çiva or the goddess Durgä or their son Gaëeça.

<FONT face=Balaram>

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>But actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the supreme master of everyone. In the Caitanya-caritämåta (Ädi 5.142) it is said, ekale éçvara kåñëa, ara saba bhåtya: the Supreme Lord is Kåñëa, and everyone else, including Lord Çiva and Lord Brahmä—not to mention other demigods—is a servant of Kåñëa.

<FONT face=Balaram>

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>The same principle is described here. Lord Çiva is important because he is holding on his head the holy <st1:place w:st="on">Ganges</st1:place> water, which has its origin in the foot-wash of Lord Viñëu. In the Hari-bhakti-viläsa, by Sanätana Gosvämé, it is said that anyone who puts the Supreme Lord and the demigods, including Lord Çiva and Lord Brahmä, on the same level, at once becomes a päñaëòé, or atheist. We should never consider that the Supreme Lord Viñëu and the demigods are on an equal footing.

<FONT face=Balaram>

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>Another significant point of this verse is that the mind of the conditioned soul, on account of its association with the material energy from time immemorial, contains heaps of dirt in the form of desires to lord it over material nature.

<FONT face=Balaram>

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>This dirt is like a mountain, but a mountain can be shattered when hit by a thunderbolt. Meditating on the lotus feet of the Lord acts like a thunderbolt on the mountain of dirt in the mind of the yogé. If a yogé wants to shatter the mountain of dirt in his mind, he should concentrate on the lotus feet of the Lord and not imagine something void or impersonal. Because the dirt has accumulated like a solid mountain, one must meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for quite a long time.

<FONT face=Balaram>

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>For one who is accustomed to thinking of the lotus feet of the Lord constantly, however, it is a different matter. The devotees are so fixed on the lotus feet of the Lord that they do not think of anything else. Those who practice the yoga system must meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for a long time after following the regulative principles and thereby controlling the senses.

<FONT face=Balaram>

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>It is specifically mentioned here, bhagavataç caraëäravindam: one has to think of the lotus feet of the Lord. The Mäyävädés imagine that one can think of the lotus feet of Lord Çiva or Lord Brahmä or the goddess Durgä to achieve liberation, but this is not so. Bhagavataù is specifically mentioned. Bhagavataù means “of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viñëu,” and no one else.

<FONT face=Balaram>

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>Another significant phrase in this verse is çivaù çivo ’bhüt. By his constitutional position, Lord Çiva is always great and auspicious, but since he has accepted on his head the <st1:place w:st="on">Ganges</st1:place> water, which emanated from the lotus feet of the Lord, he has become even more auspicious and important. The stress is on the lotus feet of the Lord. A relationship with the lotus feet of the Lord can even enhance the importance of Lord Çiva, what to speak of other, ordinary living entities.

 

 

 

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>SB 3.28.23

 

 

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>The yogé should fix in his heart the activities of Lakñmé, the goddess of fortune, who is worshiped by all demigods and is the mother of the supreme person, Brahmä. She can always be found massaging the legs and thighs of the transcendental Lord, very carefully serving Him in this way.

 

 

 

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>PURPORT

 

 

<FONT face=Balaram><FONT size=3>Brahmä is the appointed lord of the universe. Because his father is Garbhodakaçäyé Viñëu, Lakñmé, the goddess of fortune, is automatically his mother. . . .

 

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<FONT size=3>You are free to consider me your Guru. But I am not so admirable. But I can Boast that I have thousands of Guru's. I keep them organized by degree of advancement in the index files of my heart, --or you may blaspheme my Gurus' devotee--as you please,

<FONT size=3>Bhaktajan

 

[bhaktajan]

 

 

SB 8.549P:

 

 

. . . Because people are embarrassed by so many material desires, they worship Lord Çiva, Lord Brahmä, the goddess Kälé, Durgä, Gaëeça and Sürya to achieve different results. . . .

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WAIT WAIT WAIT !!!

SB 7.5.23-24P:

. . . In the Varäha Puräëa the following offenses are mentioned: (a) to eat in the house of a rich man, (b) to enter the Deity’s room in the dark, © to worship the Deity without following the regulative principles, . . . In other places, the following offenses are listed: . . . (o) to offer worship to the Deity without worshiping Vaikuëöha deities like Gaëeça,

To which I will refer you to this verse:

 

 

 

SB 11.27.29

 

 

 

 

durgäà vinäyakaà vyäsaà

 

viñvakñenaà gurün surän

sve sve sthäne tv abhimukhän

püjayet prokñaëädibhiù

SYNONYMS

 

 

 

 

 

durgäm—the Lord’s spiritual energy; vinäyakam—the original Gaëeça; vyäsam—the compiler of the Vedas; viñvaksenam—Viñvaksena; gurün—one’s spiritual masters; surän—the demigods; sve sve—each in his own; sthäne—place; tu—and; abhimukhän—all facing the Deity; püjayet—one should worship; prokñaëa-ädibhiù—by the various prescriptions beginning with sprinkling of water for purification.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

With offerings such as prokñaëa one should worship Durgä, Vinäyaka, Vyäsa, Viñvaksena, the spiritual masters and the various demigods. All these personalities should be in their proper places facing the Deity of the Lord.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

According to Çréla Jéva Gosvämé, the Gaëeça and Durgä mentioned in this verse are not the same personalities present within the material world; rather, they are eternal associates of the Lord in Vaikuëöha. In this world Gaëeça, the son of Lord Çiva, is famous for awarding financial success, and the goddess Durgä, the wife of Lord Çiva, is famous as the external, illusory potency of the Supreme Lord. The personalities mentioned here, however, are eternally liberated associates of the Lord who reside in the spiritual sky, beyond the material manifestation. Çréla Jéva Gosvämé quotes from various Vedic literatures to prove that the name Durgä may also indicate the internal potency of the Lord, who is nondifferent from Him. The external, or covering, potency of the Lord expands from this original Durgä. The Durgä of the material world, called Mahä-mäyä, assumes the function of bewildering the living entities. Thus a devotee should not fear becoming polluted by worshiping the Durgä mentioned here, who has the same name as illusion, but rather the devotee must show respect to these eternal servitors of the Supreme Lord in Vaikuëöha.

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On the other hand, during the past few weeks, I have heard A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami on a recorded audio lecture state that, [i paraphrase here] "If one, during the start of some devotional servce/sadhana, wants to evoke the Devas, and thus engage them, that is OK . . . "