Why Advait Is A Complete Hoax.

[ranjeetmore]

aadi Shankaracarya(whm i shal adress as A.S. Henceforth)

Wrote a hoax commentary on the brahm sutra knwn as Advait.

First,let us go thru the vedic version AS IT IS.

 

Brahm,jeev maya.3 principles have been enumeratd in the veda.

Brahm is the controller,inspirational entity,governor whereas Jeev is controld,inspired and governed by Brahm.

 

Brahm has an inferior energy-maya,whatever we see around us is jada/mayic.

 

Vedas also describe the marginal position of jeeva tattva.Jeeva tattva is that tattva between maya,brahm's inferior energy and His superior energy(which can be identified by Brahm Himself).

 

Being a marginal entity,the jeevatma is subject to control either by maya or by yogmaya(Superior energy),depending on his choice,Preya or shreya marga.

 

All this is the vedic version.

[ranjeetmore]

now let us focus on Acintya bheda bhed just briefly,coz i am frankly incapable to go into depth simply coz it was Bhagwan's own take on the brahm sutra(remember Gauranga Mahaprabu ?).

 

Jeev is sanatan.Brahm is sanatan.Maya is sanatan(beginingless.)

 

Brahm is chit svarup.Jeev is chit.Maya is jada.

 

Brahm is vibhu(infinite).Jeev is anu(atomic.)

 

Brahm is controlr.(niyamak/shasak)

Jeev is controlld(shasya/niyamit)

 

Brahm pervades entire existence,spiritual as well as material(sarvavyapak).jeeva pervades one single body(alpavyapak).(boo hoo mayavadis who say they are Brahm.)

 

Brahm creates,maintains and destroys material creation.Jeev rotates in the cycle of birth and death.

 

Brahm controls maya.Jeev is under maya.

 

Brahm inspires.Jeev is inspired.

 

All said,Brahm is cit jeev is also cit.

Brahm is sanatan,jeev is also sanatan.

 

 

These 2 points of similarity and the infinite points of differences is calld simultaneous oneness and diffrence.(achintya bheda bhed).You can never becme Brahm,yet He is not senior to you and u both are of the same nature.Thats why at 1 place it is said,aham brahmasmi.(i am brahm.)But 1 shud also take into acount that jeeva is ansh of jeev-vishisht-brahm and thus ''aham brahmasmi''

[chandu_69]

Yes,Advaita is a complete hoax.I agree

[kaisersose]

Thank you for enlightening the world fellas.

 

It is a pity, you two were not born a thousand year earlier. The face of Indian religion would have been completely different.

 

India definitely needs more bright guys like you. Keep it coming!

 

Cheers

[ranjeetmore]

 

Thank you for enlightening the world fellas.

 

It is a pity, you two were not born a thousand year earlier. The face of Indian religion would have been completely different.

 

India definitely needs more bright guys like you. Keep it coming!

 

Cheers

 

Sarcasm can only help you so much...Have you got any arguments to put forth or are we supposed to keep guessing your stance on spirituality???

[chandu_69]

Sarcasm is welcome...Not when it is the only argument.lol

[theist]

It has been his only argument for years. Don't expect philosophical debate, instead he will now target me with some sarcastic statement.

[kaisersose]

 

Sarcasm can only help you so much...Have you got any arguments to put forth or are we supposed to keep guessing your stance on spirituality???

 

How do you know I am being sarcastic? What if Kripalu actually inspired me in the recent past and I had a change of heart?

 

If you think Kripalu and/or Chaitanya are incapable of changing Advaitins or Atheists, I would like to hear your reasons.

 

If you have none, then there is no basis for categorizing that post as sarcasm. Do you agree?

 

Cheers

[ranjeetmore]

 

How do you know I am being sarcastic? What if Kripalu actually inspired me in the recent past and I had a change of heart?

 

If you think Kripalu and/or Chaitanya are incapable of changing Advaitins or Atheists, I would like to hear your reasons.

 

If you have none, then there is no basis for categorizing that post as sarcasm. Do you agree?

 

Cheers

 

The very fact that you did not use an honorary term "Sri" before either of those names you mentioned gives way to your sarcasm.

there shall be no mention of either of these names from you in future i expect?

We don't want things getting messy here do we?

 

 

Stick to Bhramn,Aatma and Maya and we shall coexist,i say.

[kaisersose]

 

The very fact that you did not use an honorary term "Sri" before either of those names you mentioned gives way to your sarcasm.

there shall be no mention of either of these names from you in future i expect?

We don't want things getting messy here do we?

 

 

Stick to Bhramn,Aatma and Maya and we shall coexist,i say.

 

Note that I never use Sri for Shankara, Vayasa, Krishna or anyone else either. So my lack of usage of Sri/Srila/Highness/Maharaj/Holiness etc., has been consistent. So then, this cannot be a reason. But yet, here it is anyway,

 

----

 

How do you know I am being sarcastic? What if Sri Kripalu Maharaj actually inspired me in the recent past and I had a change of heart?

 

If you think Sri Kripalu and/or Sri Chaitanya are incapable of changing Advaitins or Atheists, I would like to hear your reasons.

 

If you have none, then there is no basis for categorizing that post as sarcasm. Do you agree?

 

----

 

Cheers

[RadhaMukunda]

It's funny how people who know nothing about vedanta philosophy think they can refute Advaita with one simple post.

[ranjeetmore]

it's so funny i'm crying.But the funnier thing is....How pple who know NOTHING about vedanta refute Bhagavata Dharma.

[bhaktajan]

Oh Oh!

 

It is said by sages, "How can people who know NOTHING about vedanta refute Bhagavata Dharma"?

 

Indeed, it's so funny i'm crying too!

 

..............................................

Oh excuse me Sir, you know NOTHING about vedanta [and you know who you are] so please immediately refute Bhagavata Dharma. Why? I guess because it would amuse me; but is that just my twisted selfish sardonic sense of humor at the expense of other's depiction of pain?

 

Hee hee hee! . . . refute Bhagavata Dharma . . . Oooo, another Bhagavata Dharma refuter knocking at the door --we still must answer and offer at least a cup of water. Oh Poor Bhagavata Dharma refuter . . .

[theist]

A Devil's advocate, represented by the mayavadi in this case, might say that Bhagavat Dharma is indeed the Supreme method for attaining God. But attaining God means realizing that what we have been worshiping is really our own true Self ,the only Self there is.

[ranjeetmore]

But how can they say that.

Rasat vam heva labhdva nandi bhavati.

 

By attaining Him,the jeevatma GETS ananda.

He GETS rasa.He DOESN'T BECOME rasa.

 

If that were so,why didn't every single bhakta display that he was Narayana Himself?

Why did they,even after apparently tying the lord to a pillar(I'm referring to His mommy,who by the way beats Him with a stick while He does acting of crying and shivering in fear),not show that they were Narayana?

Do mayavadis have intelligence or no?

 

Bhakta- he's not displaying his virat rupa.

The blue figure- ARRRRAAAAAAYYYY He's displaying His infinitude.

Bhakta- is kneeling..afraid and fully conscious of his puny position

the blue figure who is now the entire cosmos- is everything.

 

Any donkey can deduce that jeevatma(arjuna) doesn't become Paramatma(Sri KRsna) even after achieving Bhava,what to speak of Prema.

 

A tiny particle,whom Maya had covered since beginningless time,will become the controller of Maya after she is removed??

What logic is this?

[kaisersose]

 

But how can they say that.

Rasat vam heva labhdva nandi bhavati.

 

By attaining Him,the jeevatma GETS ananda.

He GETS rasa.He DOESN'T BECOME rasa.

 

If that were so,why didn't every single bhakta display that he was Narayana Himself?

Why did they,even after apparently tying the lord to a pillar(I'm referring to His mommy,who by the way beats Him with a stick while He does acting of crying and shivering in fear),not show that they were Narayana?

Do mayavadis have intelligence or no?

 

Bhakta- he's not displaying his virat rupa.

The blue figure- ARRRRAAAAAAYYYY He's displaying His infinitude.

Bhakta- is kneeling..afraid and fully conscious of his puny position

the blue figure who is now the entire cosmos- is everything.

 

Any donkey can deduce that jeevatma(arjuna) doesn't become Paramatma(Sri KRsna) even after achieving Bhava,what to speak of Prema.

 

A tiny particle,whom Maya had covered since beginningless time,will become the controller of Maya after she is removed??

What logic is this?

 

Your dept of knowledge on this subject is very impressive.

 

if only, earlier critics of Mayavada like Madhva, Ramanuja, et al., had written their criticism with the same flair as yours, there would no Mayavadis in the world today.

 

It is never too late anyway. You may also want to consider adding these posts to the Advaita discussion forum. I bet the logic of your posts will make the Mayavadins over there see the error of their ways and convert into Jagadguru Sri Kripalu Maharaj's followers in a week's time.

 

Thank you once again, for taking time to illuminate the world with your wisdom. And to repeat, I am not being sarcastic.

 

Cheers

[atanu]

 

 

Jeev is sanatan.Brahm is sanatan.Maya is sanatan(beginingless.)

 

 

 

Excellent. So, sanatan is the common factor that must be known before we can make any comment as to what is Jiva, what is Maya, and what is Brahman? OM. ranjit, do you know the sanatana in you? And can you list down the key teachings of Advaita to show to us that you know as to what you are calling 'a hoax'?

[theist]

 

But how can they say that.

Rasat vam heva labhdva nandi bhavati.

 

By attaining Him,the jeevatma GETS ananda.

He GETS rasa.He DOESN'T BECOME rasa.

 

You can say that but they can say that Krishna lila is a divine bridge to the highest ananda which is realized in oneness with the the brahmanjyoti. We cannot dislodge them from this error simply by philosophy, that is once they have become solid in impersonalism.

 

 

If that were so,why didn't every single bhakta display that he was Narayana Himself?

Why did they,even after apparently tying the lord to a pillar(I'm referring to His mommy,who by the way beats Him with a stick while He does acting of crying and shivering in fear),not show that they were Narayana?

Do mayavadis have intelligence or no?

D.A."They weren't yet in the reaization that they are Narayana. They are still on the bridge to that realization. And Krishna lila is that bridge."

 

 

Bhakta- he's not displaying his virat rupa.

The blue figure- ARRRRAAAAAAYYYY He's displaying His infinitude.

Bhakta- is kneeling..afraid and fully conscious of his puny position

the blue figure who is now the entire cosmos- is everything.

D.A."Does the entire cosmos not include the Bhakta who is kneeling? It does only Arjuna has not fully realized it yet."

 

 

Any donkey can deduce that jeevatma(arjuna) doesn't become Paramatma(Sri KRsna) even after achieving Bhava,what to speak of Prema.

 

A tiny particle,whom Maya had covered since beginningless time,will become the controller of Maya after she is removed??

What logic is this?

 

And how is this so obvious to any on-looker? Even if true Arjuna's realization is his alone. External eyes which are all the common man has to see with cannot make a proper deduction one way or the other. Krishna is free to fulfill the role of a servant, Arjuna if He wants to for the sake of His lila.

We need to have our own realization like Arjuna.

 

I can't make up a good mayavadi answer to the tiny particle becoming covered in the first place. And I have never heard them offer a good attempt.

 

But how can Vaisnava's deny the oneness of the particle with Krishna. And how can the Advaitin deny the actual individually of the Jiva distinct from Krishna?

 

Lord Caitanya taught they are both correct, simultaneously one and different.

I'll go with that.

 

So my conclusion is that Advaita is not a "complete hoax" however it is seriously incomplete.

[sambya]

dear ranjeet.

i respect bhakti and believe it to be the easiest way to god. but at the same time i also believe and respect advaitabad as a valid doctrine.im willing to refute your points.firstly when you say that 'AS IT IS'what is the logic or proof behind that?whatever you said is definitely true,but only when viewed from achintya bhedabhed or vishishtadwaitic view points. but you are overlooking the numerous other school of thoughts and hence right at the begining of your argument indirectly assuming the falsity of other school of thoughts.this is against the principles of logic and basic reasoning.

 

you are forgetting that brahma jiva and maya are three seperate(but interlinked) entities in achntya B.but not in advaita .in advaita there is nothing but unity,so no question of jiva,maya,cosmos destrucion creation arisei in the highest stage.then you may ask why do the advaitins ponder so much over maya,if everything is brahma?that because untill you have realized the truth you are not brahm.

 

ill give you a story for that.when you step across a rope lying on the floor in a dark room you get frightened to think it to be a snake.moments later you realize it is a rope.but for those fearfull few moments it was a perfect snake with all its attributes.exactly the same way we are in the spell(it dosent end in a few moments though) of percieving the unity as many.this is advaitic concpt of maya.so your concepts of two maya(yogamaya and jada maya) would be invalidated right at the begining.

 

also advaita dosent believe in anything 'jada'.there is nothing but unity which is but consciousness.pure and infinite.

 

also im assuming that you are vaishnav by faith.ive seen that vaishnavs love to understand scriptures in an absolute literal sense.for exmple a vaishnav would never agree that, krishna by saying"sarva dharma paritajya mamekam.............ma sucah" advocates aspirants to surrender to god,but would insist that it advised to surrender only to krishna.but in cases like "tatwamasi" and "aham brahmasmi" they are quick to let go of their old ways and try spiritual interpretations.this is hypocrisy indeed. take it literally,like you do with gita and bhagavat !!!!

 

there a saying 'bhavagrahi janardan' meaning that the lord understands and accepts the bhav or emotions of a seeker.he sees the mind not the action.right??and he is CAUSELESSLY mercifull also.i dont think anyone would object that.and every jiva would be his son.

 

so now lets try a bhav badi thought.if we are all his sons and he is cuselessly mercifull and call out 'pa' instead of 'papa'would he come rushing with anger and slap you? iguess no.he would obviously understand your inability to fathom him and understand that you are actually calling out to him(may be in a distorted way).so why would he destroy the spiritual lives of advaitists even if they venturerd on the wrong tracks???isnt your god intelligent enough to realize that it is he who is being searched for???isnt he BHAVAGRAHI JANARDAn.if he woudnt then better stop calling him by this name.

 

vaishnavs believe that sankaracharya (shiva) was instructed by bhagavan to preach this "false doctrine". can god who is CAUSELESSLY mercifull do such a partial act? for having done that he would turn to selectively mercifull !!!!!! that would make him imperfect and hence not god.coz god is someone who is always perfect.

 

vaishnavs also ridicule the advaitists that , inspite of realizing brahman they come down and lead the lives of ordinary people .how can an individual who have realized brahman again lead a material life.amswer is that this is a false tale.a advaita sadhak on reaching the highest plane or nirviklalpa samadhi gives up his body(death in scientific terms). on total loss of ego(both good and bad) there can no 'existence' in material terms.its a state of perfect unity that cannot be described brcause in order to describe you need to speak and to speak you need minimal ego.only a few saints revered as incarnations have been able to come down from this plane of consciousness for benefit of mankind.

 

lastly if you want to test the validity of any thought,theory or whatever, you must pursue it thoroughly and then form a opinion reguarding it that.but sadly whatever you have gone through is just a one sided explanation.you have looked at advaita from vishistadvaitic veiw pouints.you must first learn to look at vishihtavadita from advaitic viewpoints and only then you are eligible enough to form an opinion.apart from your vaishnav teaching what and how much have you read about advaita??????

 

sadly most vaishnavs dont read anything more than bhaagavat,gita,charitamrita(in case of gaudiya ones)isopanishd and think themselves as scriptural authirity,read through the basic upanishds (in their literal meaning of course)and you will get the idea of advaita.

 

any more discussions are welcome.

[kaisersose]

 

dear ranjeet.

i respect bhakti and believe it to be the easiest way to god. but at the same time i also believe and respect advaitabad as a valid doctrine.im willing to refute your points.firstly when you say that 'AS IT IS'what is the logic or proof behind that?whatever you said is definitely true,but only when viewed from achintya bhedabhed or vishishtadwaitic view points. but you are overlooking the numerous other school of thoughts and hence right at the begining of your argument indirectly assuming the falsity of other school of thoughts.this is against the principles of logic and basic reasoning.

...

sadly most vaishnavs dont read anything more than bhaagavat,gita,charitamrita(in case of gaudiya ones)isopanishd and think themselves as scriptural authirity,read through the basic upanishds (in their literal meaning of course)and you will get the idea of advaita.

 

any more discussions are welcome.

 

You may not be aware of this. Jagadguru Sri Kripaluji Maharaj, when he was very young, defeated hundreds of Mayavadin pundits in Kasi (all at the same time) by quoting profusely from scripture. That is when he was recognized as an outstanding scholar.

 

Ranjeet is a follower of Jagadguru Sri Kripaluji Maharaj and can backup his case for proving "Advaita as a complete hoax" with scriptural evidence as necessary.

 

I have also humbly requested him to post his case in the Advaita forums so that more Mayavadins may find out their system is a complete hoax and turn towards the completely genuine Gaudiya Vaishnava beliefs taught by Jagadguru Sri Kripaluji Maharaj. That will be a blessed day and I have complete faith in Ranjeet's ability to make it happen.

 

Cheers

[sambya]

sad to say but most vaishnavs have this habit of gossiping demeaning,distorting other faith systems. in old ages even saktas and shaivas and other groups also had it,but at the turn of the century while most have done away with it , vaishnavs still cling on to medieval theories and biased fundamentalism.in fact they take unending pride in such sctivities and discard all of science,history,geography,philosophy that seems to go against their scriptures,much like the medieval christian churches.

 

apart from anything else why cant you have a simple basic respect for other's belief?this is not a hate forum that you go on posting such threads.this is a sadistic plesure that many vaishnavs seem to derive by downplaying other faiths resulting from deep rooted insecurity.that is exactly why a vaishnav is never allowed to go near advaitiast ,lest he starts behaving rationally instead of emotionally.how many advaitins have you come across posting such hate threads against vaishnavs?????? hardly any.at least i havent.

 

isnt it harsh to hear ill words against your beliefs?for example what if i say that--you vaishnav speak such a lot of mother cow and non violence etc and yet dont hesitate to use cow leather for mridanga.if you say that its for lord's seva then i might as well deride that seva which teaches to play the deceased "MOTHER'S" skin for sake of service to lord.isnt robbing the young calf of its mothers milk also a equal act of violence????

 

and by this time it should be clear that world can never be free from'mayavadis',for if that would have been possible ramanujacrya and others would have succesfully done that by now.as because you people are obviously not anywhere near to them in terms of greatness its impossible that you can achieve what they couldnt.so better keep shut and concentrate on your own spiritual upliftment.

[ranjeetmore]

 

You may not be aware of this. Jagadguru Sri Kripaluji Maharaj, when he was very young, defeated hundreds of Mayavadin pundits in Kasi (all at the same time) by quoting profusely from scripture. That is when he was recognized as an outstanding scholar.

 

Ranjeet is a follower of Jagadguru Sri Kripaluji Maharaj and can backup his case for proving "Advaita as a complete hoax" with scriptural evidence as necessary.

 

I have also humbly requested him to post his case in the Advaita forums so that more Mayavadins may find out their system is a complete hoax and turn towards the completely genuine Gaudiya Vaishnava beliefs taught by Jagadguru Sri Kripaluji Maharaj. That will be a blessed day and I have complete faith in Ranjeet's ability to make it happen.

 

Cheers

 

 

You know 99.9999% of the Mayavadis don't even follow Shankar bhashya.Half of them incline towards buddhism,others hail Quantum mechanics as their other saviour and the left overs merely come prancing here based solely upon their mental speculations.

Anyway,whatever you believe in...or you don't believe in....

The challenge still stands.

you see I AM NOT Jadguru Sri kripaluji Maharaj.HE IS SOMEWHERE in North india(Vrndavan,Barsna or maybe mangarh).

So instead of posting a million different views,go sort out with him or just sit where you are,revelling in your own respective mental achievements and intelligence(I know what bhramn is.I am bhramn.)And then when your wives/mothers/children start creating inconvenient disturbances,start fighting back like dogs and cats.

 

But you are bhramn na ? You have that realisation/conviction.

 

Array go to hell with bhramn...My son has just died.

Now where is your "Jagat mithya verse?"

[ranjeetmore]

 

sad to say but most vaishnavs have this habit of gossiping demeaning,distorting other faith systems. in old ages even saktas and shaivas and other groups also had it,but at the turn of the century while most have done away with it , vaishnavs still cling on to medieval theories and biased fundamentalism.in fact they take unending pride in such sctivities and discard all of science,history,geography,philosophy that seems to go against their scriptures,much like the medieval christian churches.

 

apart from anything else why cant you have a simple basic respect for other's belief?this is not a hate forum that you go on posting such threads.this is a sadistic plesure that many vaishnavs seem to derive by downplaying other faiths resulting from deep rooted insecurity.that is exactly why a vaishnav is never allowed to go near advaitiast ,lest he starts behaving rationally instead of emotionally.how many advaitins have you come across posting such hate threads against vaishnavs?????? hardly any.at least i havent.

 

isnt it harsh to hear ill words against your beliefs?for example what if i say that--you vaishnav speak such a lot of mother cow and non violence etc and yet dont hesitate to use cow leather for mridanga.if you say that its for lord's seva then i might as well deride that seva which teaches to play the deceased "MOTHER'S" skin for sake of service to lord.isnt robbing the young calf of its mothers milk also a equal act of violence????

 

and by this time it should be clear that world can never be free from'mayavadis',for if that would have been possible ramanujacrya and others would have succesfully done that by now.as because you people are obviously not anywhere near to them in terms of greatness its impossible that you can achieve what they couldnt.so better keep shut and concentrate on your own spiritual upliftment.

 

Mayavadis CAN never be eliminated....Thank God for that.Without them the kali yuga just doesn't seem right,don't you think??

And if you say that Mayavdis have existed since before Kaliyuga,Point out one single mahatma who endorsed monism alone and achieved Bhramananda without Sri Krsna's grace.

 

And by the way,OUR scriptures means what ?

With the proper Bhakta in charge,you give me any vedic scripture,he'll show you WHOSE scripture it is,Vaishnav or Mayavadi.

Forget Vedic scripture...You give him even a realised fakir's writings he'll tell you who is the center of all scriptures.

 

I think you'll know which Bhakta i'm talking about...but i just don't feel like i should take the name a lot...It doesn't go down well with envious mayavadis.

 

bhakti is the easiest way to God?

IT is thw ONLY way to God.

 

And i'm not saying God in His Bhagavan feature.Bhakti is also the only means by which you can ever go and drown yourself in the bhramn drava/jyoti.

[theist]

 

apart from anything else why cant you have a simple basic respect for other's belief

 

Why should anyone respect a viewpoint they consider wrong? Respect only the truth.

 

What must be respected however is the God given right to freedom of belief. This is the free will that is integral to every jiva and indeed is the boundary line between every soul and even the Supreme Personality Himself.

 

Even out and out atheist deserves respect as part of Krishna, but atheism is a diseased state of mind and as such deserves no respect.

 

But we are beginners at best with a few exceptions. Srila Prabhupada knew the level of those he was preaching to and to protect us he spoke strongly and continuously against impersonalism. Often devotees try to imitate SP when speaking to others and we instead become offensive to others. Certainly this has been the case in my life and I have offended many.

 

So there is a balanced way to defeat impersonalism and voidism that is more mature and that is noticable here on ranjeetmore's thread. He has thrown down the gauntlet with numerous points. There are mayavadis here among us so they should respond to those points. Simply saying GV's are offensive is not enough.

[theist]

I for one would like to hear the Advaitin answer to the question on how there can even be such a thing as maya in the first place.