Why Advait Is A Complete Hoax.

[bhaktajan]

Sambya,

Vaishnavs have this habit of being scholars--except the ones you covet?

Why cant you have a simple basic respect for other's belief?

It is harsh to hear ill words against your beliefs.

 

So better keep shut and concentrate on your own spiritual upliftment.

 

BTW, your own posting above does not state what your beliefs are!

 

This is an Intellectual forum. Check again maybe you'll notice it.

[Rudra01]

 

aadi Shankaracarya(whm i shal adress as A.S. Henceforth)

Wrote a hoax commentary on the brahm sutra knwn as Advait.

First,let us go thru the vedic version AS IT IS.

 

Brahm,jeev maya.3 principles have been enumeratd in the veda.

Brahm is the controller,inspirational entity,governor whereas Jeev is controld,inspired and governed by Brahm.

 

Brahm has an inferior energy-maya,whatever we see around us is jada/mayic.

 

Vedas also describe the marginal position of jeeva tattva.Jeeva tattva is that tattva between maya,brahm's inferior energy and His superior energy(which can be identified by Brahm Himself).

 

Being a marginal entity,the jeevatma is subject to control either by maya or by yogmaya(Superior energy),depending on his choice,Preya or shreya marga.

 

All this is the vedic version.

 

It is very easy to reject what Advaita proposes, because the human mind is imprisoned in the world of dualism. It is very convenient to pray to one GOD and ask for this and that. The Advaitin takes charge of his/her own liberation, albeit it could be through Bhakti or Jnana or Karma. But it is his/her own responsibility nonetheless.

 

There is a reason for things to be the way they are. If you ask any Advaitin/Yogin/Taoist what his/her experience tells -- it will be very clear. When you meditate, the shackles of Maya loosen and finally fall apart.

 

The dualism is real, but it is possible to transcend it. When you meditate, and embrace silence and stillness, the Brahman shines through from the gaps between thoughts.

[atanu]

 

I for one would like to hear the Advaitin answer to the question on how there can even be such a thing as maya in the first place.

 

Namaste Theist,

 

Exactly. Advaita says that Maya is Maya -- a mistake. A mistake is not a reality. But please compare your view with that of great knower, Ranjit, who said:

 

 

Brahm,jeev maya.3 principles have been enumeratd in the veda.

 

Thus granting Maya an eternal place along with Brahman.

 

----------

 

I therefore asked Ranjit to explain what is his understanding of Advaita so we could have something on which to discuss, rather than just throw around opinions.

 

OM

[srikanthdk71]

 

I for one would like to hear the Advaitin answer to the question on how there can even be such a thing as maya in the first place.

 

The so called 'THING', Maya is nothing but 'That which is bound to time,space and change. Rest is Satyam. Truth. I think this is the most simple way to define Maya.

The word Maya is indeed used to differentiate and bring your focus to the Satyam. Once Satyam is realized, Maya vanishes. Got the point? The core of creation is known and everything around you including you will be revolving in the consciousness of Brahman where only experiencer exist. The light is put on and the darkness vanishes.

[srikanthdk71]

 

aadi Shankaracarya(whm i shal adress as A.S. Henceforth)

Wrote a hoax commentary on the brahm sutra knwn as Advait.

 

You want Kripalu Maharaj to be addressed as Sri,.. etc. But your first line shows your line of respect to the Adi Guru. Anyway, whats in a name?

 

First of all do you know what Brahma Sutra Bhashya contains? Have you tried to understand? Have you read Shankaras version? I bet not. Myself and Ramanadasi had arguement on Brahma Sutra Bhasya in a different forum. She was more meaningful and had her quotes to prove her points where as you dont. Empty vessels make more noise.

 

 

First,let us go thru the vedic version AS IT IS.

Brahm,jeev maya.3 principles have been enumeratd in the veda.

Brahm is the controller,inspirational entity,governor whereas Jeev is controld,inspired and governed by Brahm.

 

___________/ Brahma

Paramatman*-- Vishnu

---------------\ Maheshwar

 

The basic 3 charecterstics of Atman is 'Creation/Control/Destruction'. These basic 3 charecter have been given 3 forms. Brahma/Vishnu/Mahesh. Understand BS and Advaita before coming to conclusions. Thats the reason it is said, understand the nature of your true consciousness within you. You will know all, the core of creation.

 

 

Brahm has an inferior energy-maya,whatever we see around us is jada/mayic.

 

Vedas also describe the marginal position of jeeva tattva.Jeeva tattva is that tattva between maya,brahm's inferior energy and His superior energy(which can be identified by Brahm Himself).

 

Being a marginal entity,the jeevatma is subject to control either by maya or by yogmaya(Superior energy),depending on his choice,Preya or shreya marga.

 

All this is the vedic version.

 

If you get stuck in arguements over the forms of the trimurthis/trigunas, you can never know the truth behind it. Practice. You too can realise. But if you are happy doing what you are doing and being where you are, be happy. So be it.

[theist]

 

The so called 'THING', Maya is nothing but 'That which is bound to time,space and change. Rest is Satyam. Truth. I think this is the most simple way to define Maya.

The word Maya is indeed used to differentiate and bring your focus to the Satyam. Once Satyam is realized, Maya vanishes. Got the point? The core of creation is known and everything around you including you will be revolving in the consciousness of Brahman where only experiencer exist. The light is put on and the darkness vanishes.

 

Oh yes I understand what you are saying but your answer is illogical. How? The Advaitan says there the is only one thing and that one thing is changless. Then it is said when maya is gone maya vanishes. This is a contradiction.

 

If maya vanishes that means it's existence is real but to the soul who becomes self realized it is temporary only. But temporary or not the fact that it once existed is a dualism which if non-dual Brahman is all there is should be impossible. Understand this point?

 

Further, since Advaitins say we are all really just one being why when someone becomes self realized in Brahman do others still experience maya as a deluding force in their lives?

 

Does this not prove that souls are not just individual while under maya's spell but must be individual's post liberation as well.

[atanu]

 

------Understand this point?

 

Further, since Advaitins say we are all really just one being why when someone becomes self realized in Brahman do others still experience maya as a deluding force in their lives?

 

Does this not prove that souls are not just individual while under maya's spell but must be individual's post liberation as well.

 

Namaste theist,

 

No. You do not comprehend what you yourself say.

 

You have confused the mere objects (the bodies) with so-called others. A brahmvid knows the other bodies as similar to his own body as mere objects which dance by the will of the consciousness, which is indivisible one.

 

Till your mind makes you identify yourself with your body and the mind (which are ever changing) you will stick to the view that there is a brahmvid (knower of Brahman) who sees others. Whereas, for the brahmvid, the other bodies are (similar to his own body) objects which are illuminated by the light and intelligence of ONE.

 

 

Avibhaktam cha bhooteshu vibhaktamiva cha sthitam;

Bhootabhartru cha tajjneyam grasishnu prabhavishnu cha.

 

17. And undivided, yet He exists as if divided in beings; He is to be known as the supporter of beings; He devours and He generates also.

 

------------------

 

Unfortunately, I repeat that you have a strong mistaken idea that the very many bodies that apparently divide the Atman, have realities of their own. If you pause for some time and enquire as to what is sanatan in jiva, you will then realise that the sanatan is ONE: And undivided, yet He exists as if divided in beings.

 

Unfortunately again, some egos in their zeal to denigrate their apparent opponents, negate the teaching of the Lord.

 

Om

[theist]

 

Namaste theist,

 

No. You do not comprehend what you yourself say.

 

You have confused the mere objects (the bodies) with so-called others. A brahmvid knows the other bodies as similar to his own body as mere objects which dance by the will of the consciousness, which is indivisible one.

 

Till your mind makes you identify yourself with your body and the mind (which are ever changing) you will stick to the view that there is a brahmvid (knower of Brahman) who sees others. Whereas, for the brahmvid, the other bodies are (similar to his own body) objects which are illuminated by the light and intelligence of ONE.

 

 

Avibhaktam cha bhooteshu vibhaktamiva cha sthitam;

Bhootabhartru cha tajjneyam grasishnu prabhavishnu cha.

 

17. And undivided, yet He exists as if divided in beings; He is to be known as the supporter of beings; He devours and He generates also.

 

------------------

 

Unfortunately, I repeat that you have a strong mistaken idea that the very many bodies that apparently divide the Atman, have realities of their own. If you pause for some time and enquire as to what is sanatan in jiva, you will then realise that the sanatan is ONE: And undivided, yet He exists as if divided in beings.

 

Unfortunately again, some egos in their zeal to denigrate their apparent opponents, negate the teaching of the Lord.

 

Om

 

This is the classic difference between impersonalist and Vaisnavas. The mayavadi's insist when we talk about individuals we are talking about bodies of this world. I am not making this mistake so please don't insist that I am.

 

But again, please explain to me how there can exist even a perception of duality if undifferentiate oneness is all there is?

 

Under your philosophy you say Brahman is static state (non-active). Then you say Brahman is the source and cause of maya. That is an activity. This is a fundemental contradiction. Can't you see that? It is a simple thing.

 

I am taking rest now. I'll respond again in the morning.

Hare Krishna

[atanu]

 

This is the classic difference between impersonalist and Vaisnavas. The mayavadi's insist when we talk about individuals we are talking about bodies of this world. I am not making this mistake so please don't insist that I am.

 

Namste theist,

 

Yes, I insist that you are thinking the apparent division as real and permanent. The explanation is below.

 

 

But again, please explain to me how there can exist even a perception of duality if undifferentiate oneness is all there is?

 

Please digest the following and then answer why Lord says: And undivided, yet He exists as if divided in beings?

 

 

Avibhaktam cha bhooteshu vibhaktamiva cha sthitam;

Bhootabhartru cha tajjneyam grasishnu prabhavishnu cha.

 

17. And undivided, yet He exists as if divided in beings; He is to be known as the supporter of beings; He devours and He generates also.

 

 

Under your philosophy you say Brahman is static state (non-active). Then you say Brahman is the source and cause of maya. That is an activity. This is a fundemental contradiction. Can't you see that? It is a simple thing.

 

I am taking rest now. I'll respond again in the morning.

Hare Krishna

Who said Brahman is static? Did I?

 

Sleep will be really good for you. At least your mind being asleep (static), will not create the boundaries.

 

 

Om

[srikanthdk71]

 

Oh yes I understand what you are saying but your answer is illogical. How? The Advaitan says there the is only one thing and that one thing is changless. Then it is said when maya is gone maya vanishes. This is a contradiction.

 

If you are logically sound, answer these questions for yourself.

1. Who made you/Me/All/Everything? Ans: God.

2. From where did he make all these? Ans: If he needs something apart from him to do things, he is not god. He is a dependent entity like you and me. So, he must have created everything out of Himself. When we distant apart from him, we look minute and God looks huge. But once you understand that 'I am That' or 'Tat Tvam Asi', all your fear vanishes. 'That' entity is called as Brahman/Consciousness/God/Allah/Pundarika etc.

 

I think you have no contradiction on the above but to accept it.

 

 

If maya vanishes that means it's existence is real but to the soul who becomes self realized it is temporary only. But temporary or not the fact that it once existed is a dualism which if non-dual Brahman is all there is should be impossible. Understand this point?

 

Take the example of your own mind? Is it real? Real in Shastra means that is True in Past/Present/Future. When light comes, darkness vanishes means it becomes light itself. But light doesnt become darkness. That is just an example to understand as to how the Jeeva merges with the Parama.

 

 

Further, since Advaitins say we are all really just one being why when someone becomes self realized in Brahman do others still experience maya as a deluding force in their lives?

 

Good question. The answer is simple. Where there is Mind, there is Maya.

 

 

Does this not prove that souls are not just individual while under maya's spell but must be individual's post liberation as well.

 

The play of the delusion of mind creates this difference. Kill the mind first by meditation to experience the truth.

[sambya]

no religion can be perfect for this goes against the principles of religion itself.lets explain why--realization is religion,we all know.it is the end and also the begining of religion.and all religions agree that the almighty can never be known in totallity.even sages like sukadev narada etc couldnt comprehend him totally,what to speak of mortal beings !!!so if no one knows him totally how can he say that it is the only approach??there might be a equally sound approach hidden from your veiw.advaita has as much right to god as bhakti.if you vaishnavs do not accept this then openly admit that your faith wants a complete monopoly of god,just like most christian and islamic leaders do.otherwise gather enough manliness and say that you have known him completely.that would make god finite and hence not god.thus your veiw that bhakti is the only way stands void.

 

now lets think when can one say that this is the only correct path?only if he has personally attempted each of the other paths and repeteadly failed on attaining the truth through all of them.only then he can conclusively say that this is the only path and others wrong. but do you think you have tried out those paths even by a fragment? i dont think so ,coz most vaishnavs are not even allowed by their authority to read anything else than their own scriptures.when you have not tried advaita you have know right to judge it wrong or right.this goes against basic principles of logic.

 

also none of you ever replied to my previous post where i said what if i say 'pa' insted of papa to god.would he come running to hit me and thus proove that he is selectively mercifull.answer that with valid reasoning,not your bogus as it is stuff.

[srikanthdk71]

 

But again, please explain to me how there can exist even a perception of duality if undifferentiate oneness is all there is?

 

Under your philosophy you say Brahman is static state (non-active). Then you say Brahman is the source and cause of maya. That is an activity. This is a fundemental contradiction. Can't you see that? It is a simple thing.

 

I am taking rest now. I'll respond again in the morning.

Hare Krishna

 

Dear Theist, Indeed a good question again. Take a big container. Put different objects into it. Close it. What do you see? The Container. What is inside. Big/Small/Huge/Tiny/Cheap/Costly/etc...differences. The Cosmos is a container regulating the activities of all within it. The container has boundries and the Brahman is unbound and infinite.

[srikanthdk71]

 

You know 99.9999% of the Mayavadis don't even follow Shankar bhashya.Half of them incline towards buddhism,others hail Quantum mechanics as their other saviour and the left overs merely come prancing here based solely upon their mental speculations.

 

One need not be affiliated to any school of taught to be realized or else there wouldnt have been any Avadhoots in this world. Your dear Sukamuni also was a avadhoot.

 

Anyway,whatever you believe in...or you don't believe in....

The challenge still stands.

 

But you are bhramn na ? You have that realisation/conviction.

 

The above clearly denotes that you know nothing about Brahman. You think that it is some entity which we would like to associate or be with. The whole Vedanta talks of Brahman. Understand this simple verse 'Yatha Pinde, Tatha Brahmande'.

 

 

Array go to hell with bhramn...My son has just died.

Now where is your "Jagat mithya verse?"

 

Jagat mithya is true for your son. He would have gone anywhere with Brahman(Hell/Heaven). Not you. Still you are thinking this Mithyam to be Satyam. Wake up to reality.

[ranjeetmore]

 

One need not be affiliated to any school of taught to be realized or else there wouldnt have been any Avadhoots in this world. Your dear Sukamuni also was a avadhoot..

 

What'S an avadhoot? I'm really hearing it for the first time.

 

Sukadeva was a paramhamsa...rather the baap of your ordinary paramhamsas.Who is paramhamsa? A bhakta paramhamsa is something different...He...errr...experiences like 100000000000000 times the happiness that a normal paramhamsa experiences....(Soryy..couldn't control extolling the bhakta:pray: )

 

Now shukadeva was such a normal paramhamsa..He used to see himself(atma) everywhere he went...Now...it so happened that this naked paramhamsa left home,wandering aimlessly in Bhramanand.

Vedavyasa grew worried.He sent his devotee after shukadeva with a certain instruction.

 

The instruction was thus,"Repeat this worse carefully in Shuka's ear." and Veda Vyasa gave him a particular verse from bhagvatam describing a particular pastime of the Supreme Lords Kalua and Balua.

 

The disciple started to say the verse in Shuka's ear.

SNAP !! Shuka shook his head in utter confusion.His samadhi had SNAPPED.

 

Just like that.He sat up in full alertness,his ears now straining to take in each and every word describing the all spiritual lord.

When the disiple finished reciting,Shuka manifested the ashta-sattvik bhavas and after coming to his senses begged the disiple to tell him who taught him the verse.

As soon as he got the answer,HE RAN LIKE the wind and fell straight at his father's feet and implored him to read the Bhagvatam.

 

Now,the reader should keep in mind that this is not the samadhi that ordinary yogis have ...this is Bhramanand class samadhi.It JUST DOESN"T BREAK.Why?

 

Becz the person in samdhi feels so much of happiness that he doesn't get distracted,attached or attracted to ANYTHING,INCLUDING Bhramaloka-anand.

 

How come this happened?

 

Well,A person situated in shuddha sattva,(None of the devas,Pitras,etc are situated in shuddha sattva.They are under Sattva,Rajas and tamas) and by the causeless mercy of the Bhagvata or Bhagavan,if somehow,he hears about the Supreme lord,he immediately clings on to the feet of the supreme Lord and never leaves them again.

Obviously.

 

There are only two ways.Shreya(surrendering to the Lord)

Preya(surrendering to Maya)

 

So obviously,the ordinary paramhamsa has given up Preya marga.There's only one place to go after death...the Bhramjyoti.

 

But if by some causeless mercy,he comes in contact with the Lord somehow,he THROWS away his Bhramananda .Now he's experienced a glimpse of Premananda....He has no 'cleansing of heart' to perform before actually recieving prema.The Merciful Prema Bhakta automatically bestows his mercy,enabling the paramhamsa to experience premananda himself,making him eternally bound to the lord.

He obviously denounces bhramananda as a bitter thing.

 

Sanaka -aadik paramhamsas,while travelling in the similar state of samadhi,passed the material manifestation and into the para vyoma/spirtual sky.

 

There,the fragrance of the tulsi leaves on Sri NArayana's feet entered his nostrils.He sat awake,totally bewildered.Coming to know the cause of his extreme ecstasy,he said,"I declare that Bhramananda is like a hoof print full of water compared to the ocean of divine bliss experienced in Sri Vaikuntha."

 

 

 

The above clearly denotes that you know nothing about Brahman. You think that it is some entity which we would like to associate or be with. The whole Vedanta talks of Brahman. Understand this simple verse 'Yatha Pinde, Tatha Brahmande'..

 

Paroksha vado vedoyam balanamanushasanam.

 

Veda Vyas says,"There is paroksha vaad in vedas "

paroksha vaad means....one thing is written but it's meaning is completely different.

 

Read between Veda vyasa's lines:" your material khopdis are not going to understand one thing of it"

 

Veda Bhramatm vishaya. "veda is Bhram swarup."

 

Further,

"Shabda Bhrama su durgodam,

prane-indriya-mano-mayam,

ananta baram gambhiram,

durvighayam samutravat"

 

How will you understand the vedas??

You can read it millions of times...but it's like a ocean...You'll never understand with your material sense,intellect or mind.

 

So now tell me,why should anyone accept your interpretation of the verse which you quoted?

 

 

 

Jagat mithya is true for your son. He would have gone anywhere with Brahman(Hell/Heaven). Not you. Still you are thinking this Mithyam to be Satyam. Wake up to reality.

 

Why are you turning it around...?

[ranjeetmore]

 

It is very easy to reject what Advaita proposes, because the human mind is imprisoned in the world of dualism. It is very convenient to pray to one GOD and ask for this and that. The Advaitin takes charge of his/her own liberation, albeit it could be through Bhakti or Jnana or Karma. But it is his/her own responsibility nonetheless..

 

The living entity may be 'imprsoned' in the world of dualism....but you need something to 'free' you.A king releases the imprisoned person only when he is pleased with him.

It is his mercy.

He alone has the power to release him.

 

this is the material prison of maya.

 

Durga-the meaning of this name is PRISON.

 

Durga is the strict guardian of this prison...She serves her controller and master,Sri Bhagavan.

This is not some ordinary prison...No one can escape maya.

 

Now,if you say that your Bhramn,why can't you dismiss maya?

It's not possible.

Okay.

 

Then atleast the supreme consciousness can...the entity you'll are calling bhramn but have not yet realised,has all the energies that the vedas attribute it...But they are dormant(Sushupt).THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO TRANSFORMATION OR EXERCISE OF ANY OF THESE ENERGIES.

 

Bhramn simply maintains its supremacy.

NOW...who will take away your maya?

 

 

Bhagvatas: Who will take away your maya,huh rascals?

Mayavadis: We'll think about it..We'll meditate..Maya will go.We'll

drive her on our own strength.

Bhagvatas: If it were possible,it would've happened by now.

Mayavadis: Ha,we'll do this...we'll do that...Aisa hai..waisa hai.

Bhagvatas : Shut Up!

 

Sri krsna declares in Geeta,

"Arjuna,this is My Maya..My Divine energy.She doesn't leave anyone unless I order her to."

 

"Mam EKAM sharnam Vraja."

 

Every where when the lord talks of surrendering,He puts EVA everywhere...

The lord is very clever.He knew what is going to plague India's general mindset.

 

Eva means ONLY.ONLY and ONLY Sri krsna takes away Maya.

 

So the lord challenges in Gita,"This is MY divine energy...Who has the power to over come her?"

 

Gauranga Mahaprabhu also declared to the fortunate teenage girls,"Uma-Mahesvara are My servants....Whatever you are doing to worship them,do it for Me."

 

Shankaracharya ACCEPTED this...He DID Sri Krsna bhakti..HAD His Vision..

He would've never really written the wonderful works that reek of Prema Bhakti otherwise..

 

As for Jnyana and Karma..

 

Jnyana is toh TOTALLY USELESS:

 

"Sattva sanjayate Jnyanam."

 

"Kaivalyam sattvikam Jnyanam."

 

All this kaivalya and samadhis you all boast about..these fall under the sattvik guna of Maya...This is ATMIC sukha/ananda/happiness.

 

It is a mere shadow of the real Bhramananda.

 

This experience of Kaivalya is merely a sattvik experience...

Prithvi,

Tej

jal

Vayu

Akash

ahankar.

 

these six elements are crossed by the Jnyani with billions of years of sadhana.

 

Then remains

 

Mahan

Prakriti/Maya.

 

The jnyani can break his head for eternity,he can NEVER CROSS THESE TWO.

 

The jnyani successfully eliminates Raja,Tama guni maya.This is called Avidya/Nescience.

 

But SATTVA REMAINS.This is called vidya Maya.How will you eliminate Vidya MAya??

YOU CAN"T.You JUST CAN'T.

So Maya REMAINS...Soon,the jnyani falls(patan) even from this position

"Param padam tatah patanti..."

 

Karma:

Karma is totally dependent on bhakti Mahadevi.

Karma phala is decided by paramatma seated in the heart.

 

You may provide your millions of so called vedic proofs,but i just cannot accept that

the 'Supreme intelligence' to perform the tasks,to "NOTE,ANALYSE and DECIDE" ,is just some random work of Nirguna,nirvishesh and niraakar Bhramn.

 

Intelligence always implies a personality.

Narayano prokta Mata ,pita,Bhrata, surhd Gatih

 

He's your mother,father,brother,everything...He is the supreme destination.

The veda mantras accept the Paramatma as Sriman Narayana.Period.

 

Karma is useless unless it takes shelter of Bhakti.

then it become karma mishrit bhakti(Remember how the lord Advises Arjuna to perform karma thinking of Him alone.That's this.)

famous examples: Bhramadeva

 

Jnyana is dependent on bhakti at the first and the last satges.

How?

First stage: Sri Shankaracharya:

 

"Shudhayati naa antar aatma,

Krsna padam bhoj bhaktimriteh."

- Prabodha Shudhakara.

 

Without Sadhana Bhakti of Sri krsna's lotus feet,the mind DOES NOT GET CLEANSED.

 

Cleansing of the mind is the first stage in jnyana marga.

 

Last stage: As described above.

 

 

 

There is a reason for things to be the way they are. If you ask any Advaitin/Yogin/Taoist what his/her experience tells -- it will be very clear. When you meditate, the shackles of Maya loosen and finally fall apart. .

 

Meditation on self,Bhramn,Void,etcetera etcetera DOES NOT MAKE THE SHACKLES OF MAYA FALL APART, contrary to massive popular belief.

The meditation is done by a material mind.The meditation is itself Material.

 

This is only cheating...Meditate and experience bhramn...Wow.But no,thanks.

 

 

The dualism is real, but it is possible to transcend it. When you meditate, and embrace silence and stillness, the Brahman shines through from the gaps between thoughts.

 

'Silence' and 'Stillness' of the mind exist ONLY in the case of two events:

 

Deep sleep without no dreams

AND

The cosmic annihialtion,after which the Jeevatmas enter the Mahapurusha's body to experience slumber.

 

Still,there arises no question of transcending maya in any of these two cases.It's just babble.

[kaisersose]

FYI All (especially the pro-Advaitins) ,

 

It is OK for us to have our personal views on spirituality. Nothing wrong there.

 

But if we want to name our views, then we should not use names that already exist and clearly mean something specific. Advaita for instance - is by default the doctrine of Shankara as laid down in his Sutra Bhashya, Updesha Sahasri, etc. If we are not taking the time to read and know Shankara's Advaita, then we are not in a position to label our personal views as Advaita in discussions as it is possible that we will say things that do not align with Shankara's view.

 

Though free-thinking monistic views may largely resemble Shankara's doctrine, they are still not exactly the same and therefore it is better to avoid using the label Advaita for just any set of views that appear monistic in nature.

 

I have given the same reasoning for Hare Krishnas to avoid using time old names like Vaishnava to mean something else, though they never got the point.

 

Cheers

[Rudra01]

 

 

Meditation on self,Bhramn,Void,etcetera etcetera DOES NOT MAKE THE SHACKLES OF MAYA FALL APART, contrary to massive popular belief.

The meditation is done by a material mind.The meditation is itself Material.

 

This is only cheating...Meditate and experience bhramn...Wow.But no,thanks.

 

 

 

'Silence' and 'Stillness' of the mind exist ONLY in the case of two events:

 

Deep sleep without no dreams

AND

The cosmic annihialtion,after which the Jeevatmas enter the Mahapurusha's body to experience slumber.

 

Still,there arises no question of transcending maya in any of these two cases.It's just babble.

 

It seems like you haven't meditated. Stillness and Silence are very much possible. I know so from experience. You are closing your mind. There is no cosmic annihilation once you have attained Silence.

Click on my signature -- it'll take you to my blogs (or visit my website Medha Journal www dot medhajournal dot com ) and read the many "Maayavadi" articles there.

 

Your case against the Advaitins is a strawman.

[sambya]

sad, no one is eager to answer my questions,or shall i think that they dont have any??

for better understanding i shall recapitulate and summarise my questions....

 

1 : we are all gods little child.when a child calls his father pa' instead of papa does his father hit him? no,he loves him more for that !! so does the omnipresent absolute unaware of the fact that it is he who is being called,even if in a wrong manner(take that for arguments sake) ??CAN YOU CALL SO DUMB AN ENTITY GOD?OR IS IT THAT SOME VAISHNAVS BEING DUMB THEMSELVES ALSO VEIW GOD THEIR WAY !!!!!!!!!!

 

2 : before saying that some particular path is true and rest false one should try out all those paths with equal sincerity and fail to reach the goal.did you try out any of those paths ever ??if not then what your logic behind proclaiming them false?DONT YOU THINK THIS IS AGAINST BASIC INTELLIGENCE(in sure you have some left).

 

3 : theist says that "WHY SHOULD ANYONE RESPECT A VIEWPOINT THEY CONSIDER WRONG.RESPECT ONLY THE TRUTH." in this matter you are assuming right at the beginning that truth is a complete monopoly of you people.this is against the very intrinsic nature of truth.truth is that which stands naked for everyone to see.if something is realized only by few that obviously cant be truth.

secondly,when you argue about the validity of any two points you have two assume both true or both wrong at the begining.but instead you people are starting your silly arguments with the assumption that advaita is wrong.

also according to your super-dumb theory you suggest everyone to disrespect and hate and devalue anything that's not true according to his perception.THIS WOULD SURELY MEAN THAT YOU SUPPORT HITLER'S THEORY TO TERMINATE ALL NON ARYANS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEIR CULTURE WAS NOT TRUE ACCORDING TO HITLER.some vaishnavs do have amazing intellect!!!!

 

4 : to quote theist he speaks of "DEFEATING IMPERSONALISM".when would someone want to defeat impersonalism? obviously when he is envious or scared or insecured of that.when does a nation attack(and defeat) others?

when they are eager to outshine that nation or conquer their riches.ITS A SHAME THAT SOME VAISHNAVS SUFFER FROM THAT SIMILAR COMPLEX.

 

5 : none of the vaishnavs in this thread have read anything about brahman except what they have been brainwashed by their teachers.they keep on mistaking brahman and maya as an entity. brahman is one and absolute.there is no concept of 'second' in advaitic philosophy.and maya dosent exist either.advaitic maya is different from vishistadwaitic's maya.in former , maya never exists(out of ignorance we feel it to exist)whereas in latter maya continues to exist even after liberation.

SO MAYA NEVER VANISHES,ITS YOU WHO REALIZE THAT IT NEVER EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.IT'S THIS COMMON MISTAKE(LIKE THINKING ROPE FOR A SNAKE)THAT IS COINED THE NAME MAYA.

 

6 : and what is this crap about bhakta paramahamsa and abhakta paramahamsa??paramahamsa is a stage of realization(highest perfectional stage.).HOW CAN A BHAKTA PARAMAHAMSA BE MORE ELEVATED THAN NON DEVOTEE PARAMHAMSA? THEN IT WOULD BE NO PARAMHAMSA AT ALL.HOW CAN TWO DIFFERENT STAGES OF REALIZATION BE GIVEN THE SAME NAME.?????? vaishnavs,test your IQ !!!!

 

7 : ranjeet says something like "VEDA IS BRHM SWARUP" now thats a new bit of info for me.does these dodoheads mean to say that puarans and tantras are more authoritative and philosophical than vedas.note that vedas also costitute the vedanta or upanishads.diregaurding upanishads would invalidate any school of hindu thought.

all the views or doctrines that originated in india and disreguarded the vedas have perished from this land in due time(most notable xample being buddhism) .read history to verify . as there's no escaping historical and sociological laws you people might suffer the same end if you ignore vedas.

 

8 : my learned friend ranjeet calls durga the servant of krishna.HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS ?????? as you guys lay so stress on puranas i'll help you understand things from markendaya puran.it is said...." VISHNU SARIR GRAHAN MAHAMEESHAN EVA CHA.." MEANING THAT DEVI IS RESPONSIBLE FOR GRANTING THEIR RESPECTIVE BODIES TO SHIVA(ESHAAN) AND VISHNU.also in another area it is said......."krishnena samstute devi sashadbhaktya sada ambike ......"MEANING KRISHNA ALWAYS WORSHIPS DEVI WITH DEEP BHAKTI.WHAT ABOUT THAT ????!!!!!

AND YOUR ILLUSTRIOUS JIVA GOSWAMI SAYS IN BHAGAVAT SANDARVA--"YAH KRISHNA SA IVA DURGA SYAT YAA DURGA KRISHNA EVA SAH " , MEANING THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DURGA AND KRISHNA.

 

9 : 'scriptural authorities' like these vaishnavs always suggest to understand scriptures literally instead of doing it emotionally.thus according to them in "MAMEKAM SHARANAM VRAJA....." krishna is suggesting to join him and kick out all other upasyas from their lives(we still believe he wasnt a tyrant ,dont we?).but but but THE MOMENT IT COMES TO "AHAM BRAHMASMI" OR "TATWAMASI" THEY START THEIR BHAVA VADI EMOTIONAL TRANSLATIONS. WHY DO YOU COWARDS DO NOT TAKE THESE BASICS OF HINDUISM IN ITS LITERAL SENSE ?????????????

 

10 : kaivalya is merely a sattwik experience according to one of my friends here.nirvana is but a fragment of "real brahmananda".HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL THIS?? SINNCE HOW MANY GENERATIONS HAVE YOU BEEN EXPERIENCING KAIVALYA OR NIRVANA???? as for me i dont think i could attain that in the upcoming few births.

 

 

 

 

lastly few question to vaishnavs:::::

 

1 : why do you drink milk by depriving a young calf of its godsend nourishment and label it satwik food???isnt this cruellity??if unfertilised eggs are nonveg on account of being an animal's body secretions so is milk.if we would have really needed milk god would have send our mothers fully equipped to feed us all through our lives.

 

2 ; inspite of calling cows your mother you make drums out of her and enjoy in merriment after her death in name of lord's seva.WHAT DIGUSTING TAMASIC SEVA IS THAT WHICH ADVOCATES PLAYING OF DEAD MOTHER'S SKIN AFTER HER DEATH IN NAME OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

3 :If you are so faithfull to disciplic succesion why did gaudiya vaishnavas deviate from the original tilak markings of madhavacharya sampradaya??? IS IT ALSO SOME UNKNOWN METHOD OF SHOWING RESPECT WHICH YOUR ILLUSTRIOUS PRECURSORS HAVE DISCOVERED ???

 

 

no matter how much you argue with these dumb vaishnavs they can never understand.ONE NEEDS DEEP INTELLECTUALITY ,EXTENSIVE READING,AND RATIONAL SENSE PAR EXCELLENCE TO COMPREHEND A MINIMUM OF ADVAITA.PLEASE SOME ENLIGHTENED VAISHNAV FRIEND OF MINE DO THE HONOURS OF ANSWERING THE QUERRIES THAT I HAVE PUT FORWARD WITH PROPER REASONS AND SOUND LOGICS( start searching immidiately if you have any left after these illuminated years of brainwashing that you have gone through.)

[sambya]

after reading through many books and commentaries of vaishnavs specially iskcon i saw that their main force lies in quoting scriptures with absolute literal translation.they simply dont keep any space for other explanations based on emotion or rational thoughts,and call their version AS IT IS.

 

so if they are so adept is taking and maintaining things AS IT IS why do they dont accept the fundamentals of upanishad like "TATWAMASI" and "AHAM BRAHMASMI" in a similar literal sense.this surely amounts to selective interpretation and hypocrisy.ANY ANSWER ??

[bhaktajan]

If you ask questions--they must be Good Questions?

 

To examine your above so-called 'query'--it can be noted that you have not shown anyunderstanding of your own position.

 

You are asking others to assume to know:

1--the correct/acceptable opinion or comment or clarrification of "your understanding" which is unbeknowst to a reader of your above post.

2--That you have your own validly received & recognised education regarding the "TWO-TERMS" you've posted--why respond to a mere 'utterance'?

 

Vedanta, Yoga & Dharma is fully reconciled by the academic training that is delineated by Bhaktivedanta Swami's Text Books.

 

Bhaktivedanta Swami's Text Books are a wonder to behold--they are supreme nectar that any Paramahansa will be bogged down in without complaint.

 

We have Learnt that most people who taste Krishna-Prasadam instantly recognise that their neighborhood-Native diet is mostly composed of putrid/decomposing/stinking corpses of beasts basted in their own body-fluids and prepared by unknown strangers in a back room at a high price with a glass of fermented grapes or oats all in persuit of an ideal segue to enjoying bedded bliss before the commute the next day.

 

Your alligences are tied to some school of thought. Is it not?

Why would you consider that there are text-books that nullify other text books rather than supplement other disciplines.

 

Just pay your dues and come away with the foundation that others can seek refuge in untill the sun shines anew.

 

I stunned and shock at the adolecent level of you posting #43! For example, you end with:

 

"lastly few question to vaishnavs: . . . no matter how much you argue with these dumb vaishnavs they can never understand, . . . TO COMPREHEND A MINIMUM OF ADVAITA . . . left after these illuminated years of brainwashing"

 

When a police man says "YOU ARE DRUNK, GO HOME AND SLEEP IT OFF!" Sambya, Don't argue with the police man. Leave immediately**.

 

[** "variety of ancient and popular profanities to the tenth power" --omited for brevity]

 

Learn self-dignity--then seek the association of those who would be your mentors.

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

B) Rudra01, Shall we go read your blogs?

We know about silent meditation.

Is there many strawman seeking the Wizard's council in Oz --until the storm dies down?

 

Why don't you remain silent, and go away into obscurity? Not your propensity? Must be 'of service' to other latent voidists seeking self-actualisation?

 

If you got lost in the wilderness--would we lament?

If you dissappeared into the vast void of Brahman--shall all of us rejoice and hide our envy of your good fortune?

 

No! Go read his blog. A gentleman in the prisonhouse of the cosmos needs personal love --maybe?

[kaisersose]

I think at this point, Ranjeet has proved beyond doubt that Advaita is a complete hoax. And he he did it

 

1) Without quoting a single verse written by Shankara to show the Advaita position.

 

2) Without quoting a single Veda to show the real truth

 

That is a marvellous feat only possible through the grace of Jagadguru Sri Kripaluji Maharaj - the scholar who defeated hundreds of Mayavadi pundits in Kashi (all at the same time). The only difference between Ranjeet's victory and Jagadguru Sri Kripaluji Maharaj's victory is Ranjeet managed the entire proof without providing a single quote as evidence.

 

Kudos Bro, the world is a better place today because of your efforts. Just as the pundits of Kashi bestowed a title on Jagadguru Sri Kripaluji Maharaj for his scholarship, I think it would be apt for us here to confer a title on you for exposing the grand (and complete) hoax perpetrated by Shankara.

 

Cheers

[Rudra01]

 

If you ask questions--they must be Good Questions?

 

To examine your above so-called 'query'--it can be noted that you have not shown anyunderstanding of your own position.

 

You are asking others to assume to know:

1--the correct/acceptable opinion or comment or clarrification of "your understanding" which is unbeknowst to a reader of your above post.

2--That you have your own validly received & recognised education regarding the "TWO-TERMS" you've posted--why respond to a mere 'utterance'?

 

Vedanta, Yoga & Dharma is fully reconciled by the academic training that is delineated by Bhaktivedanta Swami's Text Books.

 

Bhaktivedanta Swami's Text Books are a wonder to behold--they are supreme nectar that any Paramahansa will be bogged down in without complaint.

 

We have Learnt that most people who taste Krishna-Prasadam instantly recognise that their neighborhood-Native diet is mostly in praise putrid/decomposing/stinking corpses of beasts basted in their own body-fluids and prepared by unknown strangers in a back room at a high price with a glass of fermented grapes or oats all in persuit of an ideal segue to enjoying bedded bliss before the commute the next day.

 

Your alligences are tied to some school of thought. Is it not?

Why would you consider that there are text-books that nullify other text books rather than supplement other disciplines.

 

Just pay your dues and come away with the foundation that others can seek refuge in untill the sun shines anew.

 

I stunned and shock at the adolecent level of you posting #43! For example, you end with:

 

"lastly few question to vaishnavs: . . . no matter how much you argue with these dumb vaishnavs they can never understand, . . . TO COMPREHEND A MINIMUM OF ADVAITA . . . left after these illuminated years of brainwashing"

 

When a police man says "YOU ARE DRUNK, GO HOME AND SLEEP IT OFF!" Sambya, Don't argue with the police man. Leave immediately**.

 

[** "variety of ancient and popular profanities to the tenth power" --omited for brevity]

 

Learn self-dignity--then seek the association of those who would be your mentors.

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

B) Rudra01, Shall we go read your blogs?

We know about silent meditation.

Is there many strawman seeking the Wizard's council in Oz --until the storm dies down?

 

Why don't you remain silent, and go away into obscurity? Not your propensity? Must be 'of service' to other latent voidists seeking self-actualisation?

 

If you got lost in the wilderness--would we lament?

If you dissappeared into the vast void of Brahman--shall all of us rejoice and hide our envy of your good fortune?

 

No! Go read his blog. A gentleman in the prisonhouse of the cosmos needs personal love --maybe?

 

I find it bizarre that I see postings of Abrahamic fervor on a Sanatana forum. The greatness of Sanatana Dharma is in the fact that it is different things for different people at different stages of life and intellect.

 

What is the ultimate reality of Dualism for a Dvaita follower is a milestone for an Advaitin, without necessarily being a full-stop.

 

You don't have to read my blogs if you don't want to -- but if you want to expand your knowledge and mind a little more, you'd do well to check it out. Maybe it's not upto your obvious level of scholastic aptitude, but it is there nonetheless and is someone's heartfelt expressions.

 

Why don't I vanish into obscurity? Because I have not yet transcended Maya. Perhaps you are right though, because by engaging in these quasi-intellectual debates, I run the risk of inflating my ego further.

 

But then I think, I discovered this site for a purpose. I am obligated to correct glaring flaws in logic (actually what you do is more rhetoric than anything else) when I see it, as part of my dharmic responsibilities.

 

Like the other poster indicated, why don't you list out Shankara's locus standii and then deconstruct it one by one. Without proper Purva Paksha, there cannot be any tarka.

[bhaktajan]

But Advaita is truth!

 

But Advaita's Final Goal [merging into Brahman, aka the void, aka the omniopresent/omnioscient bodily effulgence emminating from the Supreme Personailty of Godhead's Body, aka Nirvana, aka merging into the Causal Ocean] is temporary --because the "Soul" [jiva-atma] is always "Active" by constitution.

 

The element of a "Hoax" is the factor of permanance that is not attainable in Brahma-nirvana.

 

Winning the sweepstakes will not bring permanant status to the soul. From soul back to soul. From consciousness back to consciousness.

Not, from void back to void.

[bhaktajan]

Rudra01:

 

First, use "Bulleted listings" to delineate point for point your responses. That would be the most academic format.

 

We know "Shankara's locus standii" in it's sanskrit nomeclature.

 

Ask away to your heart's delight --and we will gladly inform you of the "Dharma".

 

If you cannot ask good questions you will not recieve responses that correspond to the proper query.

 

Perfect questions deserve perfect answer. Otherwise ulterior motives are the watch word among wolves in sheeps clothing --and, among sheep eaters, that may be the wrong way to play at others' dharmic sensibilities.

[Rudra01]

 

But Advaita is truth!

 

But Advaita's Final Goal [merging into Brahman, aka the void, aka the omniopresent/omnioscient bodily effulgence emminating from the Supreme Personailty of Godhead's Body, aka Nirvana, aka merging into the Causal Ocean] is temporary --because the "Soul" [jiva-atma] is always "Active" by constitution.

 

The element of a "Hoax" is the factor of permanance that is not attainable in Brahma-nirvana.

 

Winning the sweepstakes will not bring permanant status to the soul. From soul back to soul. From consciousness back to consciousness.

Not, from void back to void.

 

I question your understanding of Advaita. Brahman is not Void. Brahman is the only thing that is. You just don't know it yet. Once you elongate the gap between thoughts and reside in that gap, you will know Brahman. With practice and methodical removal of samskaras/karmas you will remain in that gap. That is not Nothingness, that is everythingness.

 

I would recommend you really spend time learning Advaita before making statements such as is disclaimed in the subject of this thread.