bhaktajan Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 This is a Scene from the Television Comedy Series "Seinfeld" entitled, "The Betrayal" Season 9 (1997-1998) [setting: Pinter's parent's house] (ELAINE: Hi. Mr. and Mrs. Ranawat? ZUBIN: Please, call us Usha and Zubin. ELAINE: Oh. Well, Usha.. ZUBIN: I'm Zubin. ELAINE: (Shrugging it off) Anyway, your son is marrying my friend, Sue Ellen Mischke.. USHA: You're not going to the wedding, are you? ELAINE: Well.. USHA: Don't go. India is a dreadful, dreadful place. ZUBIN: You know, it's the only country that still has the plague? I mean, the plague! Please! USHA: Here's the registry. Send her a gift, and be glad you did not have to go. ELAINE: (Soaking it in) Right. Don't go. Send a gift. I think I understand. ZUBIN: If I had to go to India, I wouldn't go to the bathroom the entire trip. ELAINE: (Leaving) That's fantastic. ZUBIN: And I'm not so crazy about Manhattan, either. (Scene ends) ------------------- PS: in case you don't know they all do go to India for the Hindu Wedding & There's this great scene of Elaine in a sari doing Pranams. Gotta love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raghu Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Hare Krishnas are beloved in the media. Naturally. With all those child abuse scandals perpetrated by your experts in "vedic culture," the media moguls know that they can sell more newspapers, news programs, etc. to a starving public. Hare Krishnas are barred from soliciting money [in exchange for copies of sastra], along with all religious solicitations, at american Airports--and therefore it is obvious who is arrogant. What does this have to do with the tendency of Hare Krishnas like yourself to claim to know something they do not, and then assert their supremacy over all on that basis? So many castes in India are demeaned by the next degree of uuper-caste that they prefer to hear nothing of caste aka Arrogance Hindu fellow-countrymen. In contrast to iskcon/hare krishna society where everyone is treated equally? One need only read the hare krishna online newspapers to see how hare krishnas break up into different social groups and condescend to each other because of their differing religious views. In fact, you can observe the same trend here. Just watch how thiest, cbrahma, and ghari start arguing with each other like dogs pulling at the same bone, usually over some stupid thing. It's just casteism all over again. Except that this time you have your hippie caste, your vegan caste, your homosexual case, your pro-feminist-lesbian caste, etc. And they all hate each other. Yes, very progressive, these practitioners of "Vedic culture." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Yes, very progressive, these practitioners of "Vedic culture." You are Right. I have had an ephiphany. Since I am light skinned and my Hindi is good enough --I shall go to mumbai and become a film star. And leave the "mulattos" to fawn over me. Me! ME! You must come and see my Movies, and forget the world. Did you know that Iskcon people make so many Headlines that there are Newspapers in all The American cities and town that provide enough civic commerce to have their own seats on the Japanese, Chinese, New York, London & Mumbai Stock Exchanges--the sky's the limit when investing in Krishnas: Now New & Improved. Send for a prospectus. Now yielding 0% Material Dividends. This agreement and the resolution of any dispute related to this agreement or this site shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of Krishnaland, without giving effect to any principles or conflicts of law. Any legal action or proceeding between Krishnaland or its links, suppliers or vendors and you related to this agreement or this site shall be brought exclusively in a state or federal court of competent jurisdiction sitting in the state of Krishnaland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raghu Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Did you know that Iskcon people make so many Headlines that there are Newspapers in all The American cities and town that provide enough civic commerce to have their own seats on the Japanese, Chinese, New York, London & Mumbai Stock Exchanges--the sky's the limit when investing in Krishnas: Now New & Improved. Apparently unlike you, I don't measure a religion's authenticity by the number of newspapers writing about it, the amount of money its followers make, the number of Hollywood (or Bollywood) film stars it attracts, or any other materialistic thing. Genuine Vaishnavism has nothing to do with these things. A genuine Vaishnava guru does not have to have 10,000 followers, hundreds of temples all over the world, web pages, or any of the other things hare krishna followers like yourself take as a gauge of success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Warrior Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Raghu, good points you make. But not all Hare Krishnas are bad. Many of them are very sattvik individuals, despite some quirky beliefs. I tend to ignore their eccentricities, in those cases. In any event, Srila Prabhupada is certainly 'bonafide', as ISKCON folk would put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Raghu, good points you make. But not all Hare Krishnas are bad. Many of them are very sattvik individuals, despite some quirky beliefs. I tend to ignore their eccentricities, in those cases. In any event, Srila Prabhupada is certainly 'bonafide', as ISKCON folk would put it. Cent per cent, but it's also true that not many of his followers are abiding by the principles laid by Srila Prabhupad, and He was well aware about this forthcoming scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinglebells Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Raghu, good points you make. But not all Hare Krishnas are bad. Many of them are very sattvik individuals, despite some quirky beliefs. I tend to ignore their eccentricities, in those cases. In any event, Srila Prabhupada is certainly 'bonafide', as ISKCON folk would put it. I am inclined to agree with you. For a few quacks , we do have rational and broad-minded devotees like Kulapavana. So all is not lost. But I do wish Prabhupada could've been a bit more gentlemanly and politically correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 I am inclined to agree with you. For a few quacks like Jan, Theist etc., we do have rational and broad-minded devotees like Kulapavana. So all is not lost. But I do wish Prabhupada could've been a bit more gentlemanly and politically correct. Whatever action is undertaken by a Bhakta, that too of His calibre, is above all dualities(including vice & virtue, correctness & incorrectness...) Your argument does not even stand... Kulapavan is certainly a great devotee and so are BhaktaJan, Theist:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinglebells Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Whatever action is undertaken by a Bhakta, that too of His calibre, is above all dualities(including vice & virtue, correctness & incorrectness...) Your argument does not even stand... Kulapavan is certainly a great devotee and so are BhaktaJan, Theist:) Your moral relativism is more a leftist concept than a vaishnava one. So please.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Your moral relativism is more a leftist concept than a vaishnava one. So please.... Don't teach me Vaishnavism, there is no chance I'll understand. It's not that I'm a bad student, you are a bad teacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Bhakta dasa Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 But I do wish Prabhupada could've been a bit more gentlemanly and politically correct. Translate out to "I wish he had sugar-coated the truth." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 In contrast to iskcon/hare krishna society where everyone is treated equally? One need only read the hare krishna online newspapers to see how hare krishnas break up into different social groups and condescend to each other because of their differing religious views. In fact, you can observe the same trend here. Just watch how thiest, cbrahma, and ghari start arguing with each other like dogs pulling at the same bone, usually over some stupid thing. It's just casteism all over again. Except that this time you have your hippie caste, your vegan caste, your homosexual case, your pro-feminist-lesbian caste, etc. And they all hate each other. Yes, very progressive, these practitioners of "Vedic culture." I gotta admit this is a fair point. I have studied Krishna Consciousness for about 10 years or so at some level and basically my experience with Iskcon is that it is a bunch of different groups arguing about the same issues year after year and basically nothing changes. But in all fairness trying to institute Krishna Consciousness in the west is a very difficult task so I guess it is no wonder there are so many philosophical differences etc. Hopefully someday Krishna will update us on who exactly is winning and who isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarva gattah Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Wow, that's a bold claim. My experience with Hare Krishnas is that they are pretty ignorant of Vedic culture, up to and including the very scriptures (Gita, Bhagavata) they claim to follow. I also have observed that they often make claims like this about their knowledge base, yet are totally oblivious to logical discussion. They seem to think they know a lot about "Vedic" culture, but their perception of Vedic culture has nothing to do with the Vedas or even with traditional Vedic culture. Arrogance is bad enough, but arrogance combined with ignorance is just intolerable. Raghu, your an ARROGENT fool, stop writting nonsense!! Obviously you represent the 'ignorant side of Hindusm" Prabhupada saved the Vedic Culture from the mundane Hindus of a corrupt and over invaded India by Muslims and Europeans, who created the name 'Hindu in the first place, it is certainly NOT a Sanskrit word. This even included saving the teachings of Lord Caitanya from the stagnation and the lack of seriousness (the desire to preach all over the world to others) of his Godbrothers. He said the Vedic gift was passed onto the West because Indian 'Hindism' had failed. Now it was up to Prabhupada's dancing white Elephants to re-established Vedic culture back in India and teach the 'Hindus and the entire world' who they really are as Spiritual entities. And its working, even this web site is the creation of a student of Srila Prabhupada So many 'HINDUS' today say to us that we devotees of Western origin know more about their religion than they do. And in all humility, we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shvu Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Raghu, your an ARROGENT fool, stop writting nonsense!! <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"></v:path><o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=Picture_x0020_1 style="VISIBILITY: visible; WIDTH: 12pt; HEIGHT: 12pt; mso-wrap-style: square" type="#_x0000_t75" o:spid="_x0000_i1026" alt="http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif"><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\ssomash1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif" o:title="rolleyes"></v:imagedata></v:shape>Obviously you represent the 'ignorant side of Hindusm" 1. You say Hindus are ignorant, you know better and these ignorant Hindus accept you know better. 2. You also say Raghu is a ignorant Hindu because he does not accept your “superior” knowledge. I and 2 contradict each other. So which one do you want to give up? Or perhaps you do not understand what I am saying here? Prabhupada saved the Vedic Culture from the mundane Hindus of a corrupt and over invaded India by Muslims and Europeans, who created the name 'Hindu in the first place, it is certainly NOT a Sanskrit word. Hindu not being a sanskrit word is a problem, why? And Btw, most Hindus never even heard of Prabhupada. I myself - an ignorant Hindu - never heard of his name until just 8 years ago. He said the Vedic gift was passed onto the West because Indian Hindism was a fascade and failed. He can say all he wants; does not necessarily make them true. Say anything to make a few bucks was the common policy of godmen who traveled west and Prabhupada was no exception. Now it was up to Prabhupada's dancing white Elephants to re-established Vedic culture back in India and teach the 'Hindus and the entire world' who they really are as Spiritual entities. And its working, even this web site is the creation of a student of Srila Prabhupada <v:shape id=Picture_x0020_2 style="VISIBILITY: visible; WIDTH: 18pt; HEIGHT: 17.25pt; mso-wrap-style: square" type="#_x0000_t75" o:spid="_x0000_i1025" alt="http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/images/smilies/deal.gif"><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\ssomash1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif" o:title="deal"></v:imagedata></v:shape> Funny, considering that Prabhupada and his disciples do not even know how many Vedas exist! So many 'HINDUS' today say to us that we devotees of Western origin know more about their religion than they do. And in all humility, we do. I would like to say I am touched by your humility and impressed by your deep knowledge of Hinduism compared to us dimbulbs…but I am just not able to do it for some strange reason. Hmm…why would that be? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarva gattah Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0> Raghu, your an ARROGENT fool, stop writting nonsense!! <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=Picture_x0020_1 style="VISIBILITY: visible; WIDTH: 12pt; HEIGHT: 12pt; mso-wrap-style: square" alt="http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" type="#_x0000_t75" o:spid="_x0000_i1026"><v:imagedata o:title="rolleyes" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\ssomash1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01 \clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>Obviously you represent the 'ignorant side of Hindusm" </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> shvu, you have no idea what 'Hinduism ' is suppose to be. I said "Obviously raghu represents the 'ignorant side of Hindusm" I was being sarcastic. 'Hinduism is meant to be Vedic and ragu represents the mundane nonsense demigod worship side of the Vedas followed by the less intelligent as the Gita tells us. What foolishly he and you call Hindus degrades the true meaning of the Vedas!! Get rid of that Muslim-European word Hindu and worshiping the mundane demigods and bring back the proper word 'Vedic religion, Sanatam Dharm and worshipping first and formost, the cause of all causes, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krsna and His expansions like Lord Ram' (according to Lila) Thats what Prabhupada came to the West to do because there were too many 'Hindus' in India who have forgot their true Vedic origins of worshiping Lord Krsna, the cause of ALL causes. Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Nothing funny meant: I accept Sarva gattah's “superior” knowledge. I count it amongst the best of my happiness--without it, I would be living in the Himalayas, hidding from everyone else. The consolation prize is I only have to pay my own rent to the lord of my own apartment block--inexchange all facilities come forth, in example heat, Hot water, rubbage pick-up, plumbing repairs, etc --similarly I know who my band of brothers are, were and will be. So help me God, says I, with a grand smile on my face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarva gattah Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 shvu, you STILL have no idea what 'Hinduism ' is suppose to be and how to follow the essence and cream of the Vedic teachings in this age of Kali-yuga or any other age do you? It's not only the word Hindu that must change but also the way present day India understand (most don't) the Vedas. Yes, I was being sarcastic. 'Hinduism is meant to be truely Vedic and ragu represents the mundane nonsense demigod worship side of the Vedas followed by the less intelligent as the Gita tells us. What foolishly he and you call Hindus degrades the true meaning of the essence of the Vedas, which is the Bhagavat Purana or Srimad Bhagavatam!! All sections in Vedas dealing with mundane demigod worship should be avoided if you want to go back home back to Godhead. If you want material benefit, then by all means worship the mundane demigods. Srila Veda Vysadeva reject His own Vedas except for the Bhagavat Purana because most of the Vedas deal with foolish mundane demigod worship. Srila Vysadeva said a Vaishnava only get real devotion or bhakti Krsna directly The demigods get their power also from Lord Krsna via His Maha-Vishnu expansion within the material world for their own mundane agenda of control within the material world. Devotees of Krsna are not interested in pleasing the lusty demigods. This is why Vaishnavas worship ONLY Krsna, Lord Caitanya and other Vishnu tattvas and NOT any of the estimated 33,000,000 demigods you find in many 'Hindu' Temples all over India. Anyway, get rid of that Muslim-European word Hindu and worshiping the mundane demigods and bring back the proper word 'Vedic religion, Sanatan Dharm and worshipping first and foremost, the cause of all causes, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krsna and His expansions like Lord Ram (according to Lila) That’s what Prabhupada came to the West to do because there were too many 'Hindus' in India who have forgot their true Vedic origins of worshiping Lord Krsna, the cause of ALL causes. What does the Bhagavad-gita say about who not to worship? "Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet." (Bhagavad-Gita 7.23) It is clear from the Vedic scriptures that Lord Shiva, Lord Brahma, Lord Indra are demigods who should be respected but not worshipped as God. And those who worship Gurus (Sai Baba, Swaminarayan etc.) as Gods are most degraded followers of the Vedic religion. Those who worship Lord Krishna as God are the purest followers of the Vedic religion. The Hare Krishna’s represent the purest of Vedic religion. The Hare Krishna movement is based on Krishna consciousness, thus the name, the international society for Krishna consciousness (ISKCON). Srila Prabhupada clearly wanted his followers to worship only Lord Krishna and not demigods or Gurus as God, that's why he set-up the International society for Krishna consciousness (ISKCON). In the temples, he built, there were no deities of demigods (Shiva, Ganesh, Brahma) on the altar, only Radha and Krishna, and his incarnations like Lord Caitanya, Nityananda and Balarama, Subadra and Jaganath. The reason being we should focus on worshipping Lord Krishna only, only Lord Krishna. If there are many mundane demigods on the altar, then the focus on Lord Krishna becomes diluted and thus we gradually diverge from Krishna consciousness. Thus diverge from the principles of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON. Thus having many deities on the altar (Lord Krishna and demigods) will be looked upon as diluting Krishna consciousness. The aim of Srila Prabhupada’s movement is to help the fallen souls which includes helping most Indian 'Hindus' come out of ignorance by making them Krishna conscious above the idea of all of us being Hindu, American, Indian, Australian, Russian, European, Chinses African etc. We are not these bodies and we don't belong in this material world Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganeshprasad Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Pranam What does the Bhagavad-gita say about who not to worship? "Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet." (Bhagavad-Gita 7.23) When we read such verse in isolation and with heavily biased tranlation little wonder we make such onerous conclusion. Read what the same Gita says, who is also to be worshiped and I quote Nourish the Devas with Yajna, and the Devas will nourish you. Thus nourishing one another you shall attain the Supreme goal. (3.11) Men in the mode of goodness worship the devas; those in the mode of passion worshipthe demons; and those in the mode of ignorance worship ghosts and spirits. (17.4) The worship of Devas, Braahmana, guru, and the wise; purity, honesty, celibacy, and nonviolence; these are said to be the austerity of deed. (17.14) Jai Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 ———————————————————————————————— Bg 3.11 as Translated by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami: The demigods, being pleased by sacrifices, will also please you, and thus, by cooperation between men and demigods, prosperity will reign for all. Ganeshprasad, Allow me to provide an explaination to this verse, I sure you will find it enlightening: The demigods are empowered administrators of material affairs. The supply of air, light, water and all other benedictions for maintaining the body and soul of every living entity is entrusted to the demigods, who are innumerable assistants in different parts of the body of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Their pleasures and displeasures are dependent on the performance of yajïas by the human being. Some of the yajïas are meant to satisfy particular demigods; but even in so doing, Lord Viñëu is worshiped in all yajïas as the chief beneficiary. It is stated also in the Bhagavad-gétä that Kåñëa Himself is the beneficiary of all kinds of yajïas: bhoktäraà yajïa-tapasäm. Therefore, ultimate satisfaction of the yajïa-pati is the chief purpose of all yajïas. When these yajïas are perfectly performed, naturally the demigods in charge of the different departments of supply are pleased, and there is no scarcity in the supply of natural products. Performance of yajïas has many side benefits, ultimately leading to liberation from material bondage. By performance of yajïas, all activities become purified, as it is stated in the Vedas: ähära-çuddhau sattva-çuddhiù sattva-çuddhau dhruvä småtiù småti-lambhe sarvagranthénäà vipramokñaù. By performance of yajïa one’s eatables become sanctified, and by eating sanctified foodstuffs one’s very existence becomes purified; by the purification of existence finer tissues in the memory become sanctified, and when memory is sanctified one can think of the path of liberation, and all these combined together lead to Kåñëa consciousness, the great necessity of present-day society. ———————————————————————————————— Bg 17.4 Men in the mode of goodness worship the demigods; those in the mode of passion worship the demons; and those in the mode of ignorance worship ghosts and spirits. Ganeshprasad, Allow me to provide an explaination to this verse, I sure you will find it enlightening: In this verse the Supreme Personality of Godhead describes different kinds of worshipers according to their external activities. According to scriptural injunction, only the Supreme Personality of Godhead is worshipable, but those who are not very conversant with, or faithful to, the scriptural injunctions worship different objects, according to their specific situations in the modes of material nature. Those who are situated in goodness generally worship the demigods. The demigods include Brahmä, Çiva and others such as Indra, Candra and the sun-god. There are various demigods. Those in goodness worship a particular demigod for a particular purpose. Similarly, those who are in the mode of passion worship the demons. We recall that during the Second World War a man in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Calcutta</st1:place></st1:City> worshiped Hitler because thanks to that war he had amassed a large amount of wealth by dealing in the black market. Similarly, those in the modes of passion and ignorance generally select a powerful man to be God. They think that anyone can be worshiped as God and that the same results will be obtained. Now, it is clearly described here that those who are in the mode of passion worship and create such gods, and those who are in the mode of ignorance, in darkness, worship dead spirits. Sometimes people worship at the tomb of some dead man. Sexual service is also considered to be in the mode of darkness. Similarly, in remote villages in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region></st1:place> there are worshipers of ghosts. We have seen that in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> the lower-class people sometimes go to the forest, and if they have knowledge that a ghost lives in a tree, they worship that tree and offer sacrifices. These different kinds of worship are not actually God worship. God worship is for persons who are transcendentally situated in pure goodness. In the Çrémad-Bhägavatam (4.3.23) it is said, sattvaà viçuddhaà vasudeva-çabditam: “When a man is situated in pure goodness, he worships Väsudeva.” The purport is that those who are completely purified of the material modes of nature and who are transcendentally situated can worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The impersonalists are supposed to be situated in the mode of goodness, and they worship five kinds of demigods. They worship the impersonal Viñëu form in the material world, which is known as philosophized Viñëu. Viñëu is the expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but the impersonalists, because they do not ultimately believe in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, imagine that the Viñëu form is just another aspect of the impersonal Brahman; similarly, they imagine that Lord Brahmä is the impersonal form in the material mode of passion. Thus they sometimes describe five kinds of gods that are worshipable, but because they think that the actual truth is impersonal Brahman, they dispose of all worshipable objects at the ultimate end. In conclusion, the different qualities of the material modes of nature can be purified through association with persons who are of transcendental nature. ———————————————————————————————— Bg 17.14 Austerity of the body consists in worship of the Supreme Lord, the brähmaëas, the spiritual master, and superiors like the father and mother, and in cleanliness, simplicity, celibacy and nonviolence. Ganeshprasad, Allow me to provide an explaination to this verse, I sure you will find it enlightening: The Supreme Godhead here explains the different kinds of austerity and penance. First He explains the austerities and penances practiced by the body. One should offer, or learn to offer, respect to God or to the demigods, the perfect, qualified brähmaëas and the spiritual master and superiors like father, mother or any person who is conversant with Vedic knowledge. These should be given proper respect. One should practice cleansing oneself externally and internally, and he should learn to become simple in behavior. He should not do anything which is not sanctioned by the scriptural injunctions. He should not indulge in sex outside of married life, for sex is sanctioned in the scripture only in marriage, not otherwise. This is called celibacy. These are penances and austerities as far as the body is concerned. ——————————————————————————————— Bg 7.23 Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet. Ganeshprasad, Allow me to provide an explaination to this verse, I sure you will find it enlightening: Some commentators on the Bhagavad-gétä say that one who worships a demigod can reach the Supreme Lord, but here it is clearly stated that the worshipers of demigods go to the different planetary systems where various demigods are situated, just as a worshiper of the sun achieves the sun or a worshiper of the demigod of the moon achieves the moon. Similarly, if anyone wants to worship a demigod like Indra, he can attain that particular god’s planet. It is not that everyone, regardless of whatever demigod is worshiped, will reach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is denied here, for it is clearly stated that the worshipers of demigods go to different planets in the material world but the devotee of the Supreme Lord goes directly to the supreme planet of the Personality of Godhead. Here the point may be raised that if the demigods are different parts of the body of the Supreme Lord, then the same end should be achieved by worshiping them. However, worshipers of the demigods are less intelligent because they don’t know to what part of the body food must be supplied. Some of them are so foolish that they claim that there are many parts and many ways to supply food. This isn’t very sanguine. Can anyone supply food to the body through the ears or eyes? They do not know that these demigods are different parts of the universal body of the Supreme Lord, and in their ignorance they believe that each and every demigod is a separate God and a competitor of the Supreme Lord. Not only are demigods parts of the Supreme Lord, but ordinary living entities are also. In the Çrémad-Bhägavatam it is stated that the brähmaëas are the head of the Supreme Lord, the kñatriyas are His arms, the vaiçyas are His waist, the çüdras are His legs, and all serve different functions. Regardless of the situation, if one knows that both the demigods and himself are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, his knowledge is perfect. But if he does not understand this, he achieves different planets where the demigods reside. This is not the same destination the devotee reaches. The results achieved by the demigods’ benedictions are perishable because within this material world the planets, the demigods and their worshipers are all perishable. Therefore it is clearly stated in this verse that all results achieved by worshiping demigods are perishable, and therefore such worship is performed by the less intelligent living entity. Because the pure devotee engaged in Kåñëa consciousness in devotional service of the Supreme Lord achieves eternal blissful existence that is full of knowledge, his achievements and those of the common worshiper of the demigods are different. The Supreme Lord is unlimited; His favor is unlimited; His mercy is unlimited. Therefore the mercy of the Supreme Lord upon His pure devotees is unlimited. ................................................................................................... I hope you find my explainations are authoritative, Bhaktajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shvu Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 shvu, you have no idea what 'Hinduism ' is suppose to be. I am sure you understand why I am not taking your word for it. I was being sarcastic. 'Hinduism is meant to be Vedic and ragu represents the mundane nonsense demigod worship side of the Vedas followed by the less intelligent as the Gita tells us. Hinduism is a lot more than Vedic. This is the trouble with people who do not know the ABCs of what Hinduism is. Hinduism is inclusive of a vedic God Vishnu, a non-vedic God Krishna and a false God Radha. But this may be too much for you to grasp. Get rid of that Muslim-European word Hindu and worshiping the mundane demigods and bring back the proper word 'Vedic religion, Sanatam Dharm and worshipping first and formost, the cause of all causes, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krsna and His expansions like Lord Ram' (according to Lila) We do not have to get rid of it as we are not bothered about the origin of the word. I can assure you that no Hindu lost any sleep over it. And therefore, the rest of your proselytizing is pointless. not to mention incorrect. Thats what Prabhupada came to the West to do because there were too many 'Hindus' in India who have forgot their true Vedic origins of worshiping Lord Krsna, the cause of ALL causes. If that is true, then he should have stayed in India and corrected them. Running away from the problem does not solve it. But we know that is not the real reason why he went to the US. Vivekananda (the meat-eating Mayavadin) opened the door for Indian spiritualism in the west – which meant more money and global fame. Prabhupada and a dozen other saffron clad ambitious Gurus took the opportunity and setup shop in America. That is all there is to it. If the US economy was as bad as Namibia then trust me- he would not have given a single though to move to the US....he would have considered UK or some other wealthy country - or simply stayed home. Wealth attracts, and you evidently are ignorant of this simple fact as you are of several other things as well. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Originally Postal by Shvu . . . a non-vedic God Krishna and a false God Radha. But this may be too much for you to grasp. <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->. . . {the word 'Hindu'} no Hindu lost any sleep over it. To which I say, "Take your positions": "You're either on the side of The International Society for Krishna Consciousness, or you're on the other side". Since when do Hindus care about world opinion regarding their grandparent's religion in the minds of world opinion? Aren't you all more interested in moving to Canada and getting a good pension. It is best to be single minded in one's determination so as to achieve your goals. I repeat Again: "You're either on the side of The International Society for Krishna Consciousness, or you're on the other side". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhaktiasitis Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 "However, worshipers of the demigods are less intelligent because they don’t know to what part of the body food must be supplied. Some of them are so foolish that they claim that there are many parts and many ways to supply food. This isn’t very sanguine. Can anyone supply food to the body through the ears or eyes? They do not know that these demigods are different parts of the universal body of the Supreme Lord, and in their ignorance they believe that each and every demigod is a separate God and a competitor of the Supreme Lord. Not only are demigods parts of the Supreme Lord, but ordinary living entities are also". Krishna is so beaufiful, who would want to worship the demigods anway, respect them yes, just as I would respect different ministers in a government who organize the building of our roads, schools, water suply, electricity, ect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhaktiasitis Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 If that is true, then he should have stayed in India and corrected them. Running away from the problem does not solve it. Actually, he tried to help India right up until he was 69 years of age. I see it in two ways, leaving India because the place was spiritually bankrupt, corrupt and filthy, by leaving India and getting help by coverting others abroard, passing on the batton and new responsibility of the true essence of the Vedas to them, because of India's failure to maintain the purity and cleanliness found with the true folloers of Vedic tradition. So because of India's failure, the batton of responsibility was passed to the Americans and Europeans by His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Then bringing his new coverts back to India to revive a spiritually bankrupt corrupt filithy place where people were still passing stool in the gutter and again begin to teach the Indians the proper Vedic 'clean' tradition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shvu Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Actually he tried to help India right up until he was 69 years of age. I see it in two ways, leaving India because the place was spiritually bankrupt, corrupt and filthy by getting help by coverting others abroard, passing on the batton and new responsibility of the true essence of the Vedas that India failed at maintain. The batton was passed to the Americans and Europeans Then bringing his new coverts back to India to revive a spiritually bankrupt corrupt filithy place where people were still passing stool in the gutter and again begin to teach the Indians the proper Vedic 'clean' tradition. Ah…the Hare Krishna propensity to use examples revolving around stool….I have seen quite a few of those. But actually no verse in any of the four Vedas translates to “Do not pass stool in gutters”. Then how does establishing a clean vedic tradition in India through American and/or European Hare Krishnas solve the problem? The Vedic tradition – as you put it – was living in little huts without electricity and starving when there weren’t sufficient rains. Disease killed most people before they hit 30 years of age. There was no ESPN & there was no idol worship (and hence, no Krishna). You would not last 10 minutes in that world. Which American/European from the Hare Krishna camp wants to go back to this "clean vedic" world? Please step up, for all of us can see you to actually believe such a person exists. Simply making up things without logic or repeating someone else's words without thinking them out results in stupid sounding posts which btw, is not uncommon here Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganeshprasad Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Pranam ———————————————————————————————— I hope you find my explainations are authoritative, Bhaktajan Thanks but no thanks for the explanation, those are opinions and they do vary according to ones preceptor. I was only responding to a blatant headline lie that read as such. ‘What does the Bhagavad-gita say about who not to worship?’ I hope I have provided the facts as said by Krishna and not someone opinion. There is no condemnation of worship of Devas in Bhagvat Gita The sloka that has been quated is way different from the tranlation I read "Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet." (Bhagavad-Gita 7.23) Note There is no word 'worship and Deva' in the first two lines. Now compare Such (material) gains of these less intelligent human beings are temporary. The worshipers of Devas go to Devas, but My devotees come to Me. (7.23) antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam devan deva-yajo yanti mad-bhakta yanti mam api BG as it is, is not so as it is I am afraid, if you read Sanskrit you may be able to see, The translation I have provided is much near to what Lord Sri Krishna is saying. Jai Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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