How many of you agree on this point of mine

[hindustani]

This spiritual section has became a place in which there is no real spiritual discussion takes place but a fight of egos seen everywhere,a real shameful saga indeed.What is the use of saying this god is superior and that is inferior?Is this our civilizatoin?After visiting few posts here now I can know why Hindus are devided and still process is on.

Please stop posting such messages which may end up in pure ego fights,a genuine request from my side. One may escape from moderators or admins by posting such messages but he or she will NEVER able to escape from almighty God by creating such sins so wake up.

[shvu]

 

This spiritual section has became a place in which there is no real spiritual discussion takes place but a fight of egos seen everywhere,a real shameful saga indeed.What is the use of saying this god is superior and that is inferior?Is this our civilizatoin?After visiting few posts here now I can know why Hindus are devided and still process is on.

Please stop posting such messages which may end up in pure ego fights,a genuine request from my side. One may escape from moderators or admins by posting such messages but he or she will NEVER able to escape from almighty God by creating such sins so wake up.

 

You ask, is this our civilization? The answer is Yes.

 

Shaivas & Vaishnavas have been claiming superiority over one another since at least the time of the Mahabharata, which should be a minimum of 2000 years ago. Nothing has changed as of July 2008.

 

The concept of debating other traditions has been around since the time of Badarayana and Jaimini which is also around 2000 years old. If you look at Buddhism, they styled themselves as different from Jainas, the Brahmin religion and every other leading religion during 2600 BC.

 

It is not like they murdered each other when they found opportunities. They have coexisted peacefully enough, in spite of diffferences in religious beliefs. So I do not see a problem.

 

It is human nature to think and feel one's own religious belief is better than everyone else's. Some people here tend to get very vocal about that and post disparaging comments on other beliefs. It is only natural that other parties will react to that. Some Hare Krishnas who were fond of criticizing Mayavada, Shaivism, etc., thought they had special privileges which allowed them to say anything they wanted, and no one should object to their mockery. As that was not the case, they have mostly disappeared from here.

 

Cheers

[bija]

Each of us chooses to come here for whatever reason. By choosing to be a part of this forum...firstly we are responsible for our own actions...and second, for what we listen to and take to heart. This second point is very serious, because once we allow offences in, our hearts can become unclean.

 

In the past few weeks, Hare Krsna people have been criticized alot by various forum members. I am a Hare Krsna devotee, and will take on board criticism when it is valid - and some of the critique has been. And some of it has been nonsense.

 

Reading the forum today one person criticized Hare Krsna people, in response to a post, and the poster was not even Hare Krsna. Staight away the attack began...little seeds manifesting in that persons heart. That is how cranky it has gotten here lately.

 

The conditioned people accept little seeds and let them grow into truths...that is the danger of forums. So we need to use discernment and be self-honest I feel.

 

Some good devotees seem not to post here much anymore, but some of them still read the posts. Good Hare Krsna people will generally avoid hearing ego-based criticism and fighting, to protect their own devotional creeper. The rest of us who choose to continue on in this place, may not be as advanced as those who have left. And if we call people all sorts of names we are simply showing our immaturity in God consciousness to the world, even though claiming to be very advanced in knowledge.

 

Why do I keep coming here? Because I need association...and wish to serve in some small way. And when I make mistakes in service, hopefully forum members have room in their hearts for my shortcomings. People here have been kind generally, and for that I am grateful.

 

I am a little bit tired lately, of certain people continually criticizing my faith (Hare Krsna)...but as I am not perfect, I will listen and learn, and attempt to be better than the stereo-type.

 

Just some thoughts....while I remain here for the time being. I agree with your point, ego fighting in the name of God will have consequence...maybe it will take many births to experience love of God if we persist.

[shvu]

Bija conveniently glossed over the part where HKs criticize others. As usual, I might add. As I said earlier, Hks are completely oblivious to their own shortcomings.

 

1. When I write HKs, I mean Gaudiya Vaishnavas. They may have all kinds of internal differences and politics, but outside the GV group, they are all the same.

 

2. My criticism is always in retaliation. It is Hks who poke their noses into Mayavada and other areas, which have nothing to do with their faith. When they go out seeking trouble, it is only fair to expect consequences.

 

So for Bija et al., try to first accept your shortcomings. Until you do that, until you continue to pretend that you guys are not the one who start trouble on the forum, you have a long way to go.

 

And if you do not believe me, check the history of this forum since 2000.

 

Cheers

[bija]

Actually shvu, I dont like it when Hare Krsna devotees behave like fanatics...you and me both know when that goes down. But I will try my best to make room for all here...as I am quite fallen mate! I like the diversity here shvu...I even like reading your posts sometimes, because diversity keeps my mind open and away from fanatcism. It is easy for me to be a religious fanatic (almost second nature to be honest), that takes no effort...it takes much more skill on my behalf to find harmony in this world, without lowering my standards.

 

This may sound like rubbish...but this is my online community. You all!

 

I was not going to reply to this thread, but decided to, so we can continue on.

 

I will take your advice and be self-honest about my shortcomings, and the mistakes prevalent in my tradition. Some stuff in our movement does not shine the same as the acaryas words; if we be honest about that, we will become a more effective movement. Thanks!

 

Srila Prabhupada is where I get my spiritual sustenance...I relish his books. It does not need to be said, that I need not apologize for that.

[Dark Warrior]

There is no such thing as true secularism. A person who advocates all religious paths to be equal will reject those people who insist that there is only one god.

 

It is unfortunate that Vaishnavism has been accused of sectarianism, when all that we do is done with rigorous logic and strict obedience of scripture. There is not one instance in history where a Vaishnava has attacked a person's belief. Rather, we seek to differentiate the belief from scripture.

 

There is, like I said, an overwhelming evidence in favor of Vaishnavism, as far as Scripture goes. One look at Bhagavad Gita should tell you that. While we respect the tradition of Shaivas and even Christians for that matter, we simply cannot allow them to filter their thoughts into Vedanta. Therefore, if we see a person claiming to follow Vedas and then saying 'Vishnu is not supreme', naturally, we react.

 

It is no big deal. The major schools of Vedanta are all Vaishnavite, and all 'sectarian'.

[srikanthdk71]

 

This spiritual section has became a place in which there is no real spiritual discussion takes place but a fight of egos seen everywhere,a real shameful saga indeed.What is the use of saying this god is superior and that is inferior?Is this our civilizatoin?After visiting few posts here now I can know why Hindus are devided and still process is on.

Please stop posting such messages which may end up in pure ego fights,a genuine request from my side. One may escape from moderators or admins by posting such messages but he or she will NEVER able to escape from almighty God by creating such sins so wake up.

 

Fanaticim and Belief are to different things. The former is the result of Indoctrination and the latter is of Experience. All are below the perspective of the Ultimate. The 'Urdhvamoolam, Adah Shaakam' tells that God is ONE. Division is below. It is high time we relate ourselves with the Moolam rather getting lost in the Shaakam.

[hindustani]

Well said,I wish some people will understand this and swallow it.

 

Fanaticim and Belief are to different things. The former is the result of Indoctrination and the latter is of Experience. All are below the perspective of the Ultimate. The 'Urdhvamoolam, Adah Shaakam' tells that God is ONE. Division is below. It is high time we relate ourselves with the Moolam rather getting lost in the Shaakam.

 

[Kulapavana]

 

It is human nature to think and feel one's own religious belief is better than everyone else's. Some people here tend to get very vocal about that and post disparaging comments on other beliefs. It is only natural that other parties will react to that. Some Hare Krishnas who were fond of criticizing Mayavada, Shaivism, etc., thought they had special privileges which allowed them to say anything they wanted, and no one should object to their mockery. As that was not the case, they have mostly disappeared from here.

 

 

That is a pretty good asessment of the situation. While I consider myself to be an aspiring GV, I do not appreciate the often very simplistic and mean spirited criticism of other spiritual doctrins and philosophies common among the Gaudiyas of today. But what can be done? As the Gita says: everything material flows from false ego.

[suchandra]

 

Hks are completely oblivious to their own shortcomings.

 

 

When saying "Hare Krishnas" are completely oblivious to their own shortcomings do you also include Krishna?

Ok it is your right and freedom to say Krishna Himself has shortcomings, what many millions of people in this material world also . But on what basis are you making this statement, what is your line of argument? It is of course your individual subjective opinion. Since it is legitimate and true to present your personal theory one can conclude however, that you cannot attack the right of others to present their point of view.

 

bill of rights: http://kancrn.kckps.k12.ks.us/wyandotte/library/Bill%20of%20Rights%20Redux%202/Assets/Images/bill-of-rights-01.gif

[Bishadi]

of all the posters on this thread skippy was the only one who shared the truth faith of compassion.

 

self examination!

 

everyone has an opinion and why your post is even represented.

 

'my idea of faith is what is right' .......... it's a common psychosis in any religious discussion

 

so return to reality and remember Vishnu is all of it, or simply existence itself and waht we each can be responsible for is our choices,

 

what we do with our actions when interacting with existence (anything)

 

 

 

This spiritual section has became a place in which there is no real spiritual discussion takes place

what is spiritual discussion for you; sending quotes from other guru's back and forth?

 

maybe a big long post bragging about how many HK affirmations you made?

 

 

perhaps, sharing how long you have gone without meat or even talk about what some other person or guru is doing?

 

 

but a fight of egos seen everywhere,a real shameful saga indeed.What is the use of saying this god is superior and that is inferior?

and if a man could raise someone from the dead, walk on water or even have the capacity to service 16,000 girls, in each case, the stories make more of the man, then of God. Because them ideas of perfection are embellished. Not a one was ever perfect; because no man of such could exist. Where's the balance?

 

Each can be equally honest and that is rule A number 1, then choices are easy, and like an Upanishad suggests, if you know not what you do, be still

 

and why to impose no bad by doing nothing is better than doing what is thought righteous but rude without understanding

 

 

Is this our civilizatoin?After visiting few posts here now I can know why Hindus are devided and still process is on.

you bet this is the period we would like to be civilized in

 

but that process of division is like sending the kids to school; they leave the nest and return with more to share, then yesterday

 

so nourish them ideas and maintain priority A1; just be honest and remove the beliefs as the law (remember it is them very beliefs (predeterminations), that cause the self to stand up claiming to be an 'i'

 

allow and nuture knowledge to evolve

 

 

 

Please stop posting such messages which may end up in pure ego fights,

that is what this thread is capable of but in contrast to your opinion, that people are not religious here, in a sense maybe an incorrect assessment .......... as many are developing compassion by maintaining that choice of honesty

 

 

a genuine request from my side. One may escape from moderators or admins by posting such messages but he or she will NEVER able to escape from almighty God by creating such sins so wake up.

 

belief in a faith over reality is the greatest of all sins

 

can't you see what is happening to this world right now because of religious beliefs?

 

no matter who has the perfect knowledge; what is occuring all over this earth must be of the cycle in which we may all experience very soon

[shvu]

 

When saying "Hare Krishnas" are completely oblivious to their own shortcomings do you also include Krishna?

Ok it is your right and freedom to say Krishna Himself has shortcomings, what many millions of people in this material world also . But on what basis are you making this statement, what is your line of argument? It is of course your individual subjective opinion. Since it is legitimate and true to present your personal theory one can conclude however, that you cannot attack the right of others to present their point of view.

 

bill of rights: http://kancrn.kckps.k12.ks.us/wyandotte/library/Bill%20of%20Rights%20Redux%202/Assets/Images/bill-of-rights-01.gif

 

Krishna is a HK? He is not a Hindu, but he is now a HK? Sounds like the Jesus is a Vaishnava thing to me...

 

As I said earlier, by HK, I mean Gaudiya Vaishnavas. My criticism comes from several posts made by your peers on this form for years. They never acknowlegde that they are the ones who create trouble here by criticizing others, but are always quick to take offense when criticism flows the other way.

 

That is what I am taking about. You can always use the search feature to see how HKs were responsible for most threads that degenerate into mud-slinging.

 

1. Theist pokes his nose into Mayavada and calls it poison, but no one should object to that. Apparently, it is Aparadha to object to his views

2. Guruvani mocks Shaivism & Kundalini because they are not GV compliant, but again he is above criticism

3. I don't know where to begin when it comes to criticism of Hinduism.

 

The list is long...but this should give you an idea of where I am coming from.

 

Cheers

[suchandra]

 

Krishna is a HK? He is not a Hindu, but he is now a HK? Sounds like the Jesus is a Vaishnava thing to me...

 

As I said earlier, by HK, I mean Gaudiya Vaishnavas. My criticism comes from several posts made by your peers on this form for years. They never acknowlegde that they are the ones who create trouble here by criticizing others, but are always quick to take offense when criticism flows the other way.

 

That is what I am taking about. You can always use the search feature to see how HKs were responsible for most threads that degenerate into mud-slinging.

 

1. Theist pokes his nose into Mayavada and calls it poison, but no one should object to that. Apparently, it is Aparadha to object to his views

2. Guruvani mocks Shaivism & Kundalini because they are not GV compliant, but again he is above criticism

3. I don't know where to begin when it comes to criticism of Hinduism.

 

The list is long...but this should give you an idea of where I am coming from.

 

Cheers

Agreed, in that sense you're right. Since 1966 it is still something like an experiment if Westerners are able to become real Vaishnavas. Meanwhile they changed the policy and you find in Western temples mainly Hindus and also the guests visiting these temples mainly also Hindus. My understanding of this development is rather not that Westerners are disqualified to become real Hare Krishnas but that of not strictly following previous acaryas. Now the global psychological department even claims that so called spiritual qualities of people practicing for example Vaishnavism are due to LGAT (see below), psychological changes that take place by belonging to a large group and not because the sleeping atma, the conditioned soul has been awakened from material illusion.

Western Vaishnavas are facing severe opposition, not only from outside, but also due to incompetent management of the Vaishnava institutions.

The discussion that spiritual lifestyle is only possible for Hindus and Westerners are too lowborn is legitimate, but on the other hand, are Hindus happy to see that Western Vaishnavism is declining, temples being closed?

To globally establish what we have in Puri - only Hindus can enter a temple?

 

 

The term Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) refers to training offered by some groups in what some call the human potential movement. By using LGAT techniques, these providers claim to (among other things) increase self-awareness and bring about preferred personal changes in individuals' lives.

Nice article on spirituality by Nava Jauvana dasa

 

On Purity & Pollution

 

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BY: NAVA JAUVANA DASA

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Jul 29 2008, CAMBRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS

In London, on July 26,1973, Srila Prabhupada gave a class on Bhagavad-gita. In the class, Prabhupada gives a very clear argument against animal killing:

 

"So we should not think like that, that animals or trees or birds and beasts, they are other than ourself. They are our brothers. Because the seed-giving father is Krsna, and the mother is material nature. So we have got the same father and same mother. So if we have got the same father and mother, they are all our brothers.

• "So unless one is advanced in spiritual consciousness, how he can think of universal brotherhood? This is nonsense. There is no possibility. The so-called universal brotherhood is possible when he is Krsna conscious, when one knows that Krsna is the common father of everyone. The father will not tolerate. Suppose father has got ten sons. Out of them one or two sons are useless. So those who are very capable sons, if they say to the father, "My dear father, these two sons of yours, they are useless. So let us cut their throat and eat." So father will say, "Yes, you do that"? No. Father will never say. The father will say, "Let them be useless, but let them live at my cost. Why...? You have no right to infringe on their rights." This is common sense.
  
  
  "But these rascals, they think that animals are to be killed for the satisfaction of the tongue of the human being. No sense. No sense. And still they are passing on as religious heads. Such type of cheating religion is completely kicked out from this Bhagavata religion. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo atra paramo nirmatsaranam vastavah vastu vedyam atra [sB 1.1.2]. It is meant for, this Bhagavat-dharma. Krsna consciousness movement is meant for the paramo nirmatsaranam those who are not envious. How they can be envious? Paramahamsa, one who has understood what is this creation, who is the creator, what are these living entities, one who has got this knowledge, he is called paramahamsa."

Later that afternoon, a world renowned economist, Dr. E.F. Shumacher, visited with Srila Prabhupada. Schumacher was a respected economist who worked with J.M. Keynes and J.K. Galbraith. He was one of the intellectual fathers of the environmental and ecology movements. He wrote that single-minded concentration on technology was dehumanizing. Schumacher proposed the idea of "smallness within bigness." He had spent time in Burmese villages, and developed what he called "Buddhist economics." He wrote a book titled "Small is Beautiful" in 1973 that made him famous. A few quotes from his book:

• "The less toil there is, the more time and strength is left for artistic creativity. Modern economics, on the other hand, considers consumption to be the sole end and purpose of all economic activity."
  
  
  "It is clear, therefore, that Buddhist economics must be very different from the economics of modern materialism, since the Buddhist sees the essence of civilisation not in a multiplication of wants but in the purification of human character. Character, at the same time, is formed primarily by a man's work. And work, properly conducted in conditions of human dignity and freedom, blesses those who do it and equally their products."
  
  
  "Ever bigger machines, entailing ever bigger concentrations of economic power and exerting ever greater violence against the environment, do not represent progress: they are a denial of wisdom. Wisdom demands a new orientation of science and technology towards the organic, the gentle, the non-violent, the elegant and beautiful."

Shumacher was one of the first economists to recognize that dependence on oil would become self-destructive, as it's a finite resource and is also highly polluting. In his way, he foretold the dangers of global warming before science had identified it.

 

Here are some excerpts from the conversation between Shumacher and Prabhupada.

 

Prabhupada:

Thank you very much for your coming. I have read some of your ideas. So from your writing it appears you are nice, thoughtful man. Muni, the Sanskrit word is muni. Just like Narada Muni. They are very thoughtful....I was just reading this article, "Cars, Profits and Pollution." So this one side, we make profit, another side, we make pollution. This is the material, result of material activities. Whatever you do. Anything you do material, it is same. In one side, you see, "Oh, there is so much profit," and another side, you'll see so much pollution. Therefore the remedy is to act for spiritual realization. Then you will avoid pollution.

 

Just for example, that in the Ten Commandments, the first Commandment is "Thou shall not kill." So when I ask any Christian gentleman, "Then why you are killing?" they cannot give me any satisfactory answer.

 

Revatinandana:

How does the, how does the process of animal slaughter in the slaughterhouse as we find it today, how does it fit in your philosophy for, say, changing the society? Where do you put that in your philosophy?

 

Schumacher:

Well, I think one should try and do without it. You can't everywhere do without it. It's like all nonviolence. It's a direction of movement, to try to do your utmost to go as far as...

 

Revatinandana:

So wherever possible, the slaughtering business should not go on.

 

Schumacher:

That's right. But the Eskimos, for instance...

 

Prabhupada:

That is another thing.

 

Schumacher:

That's what I was saying, you see.

 

Prabhupada:

When there is no food, so human life is more important than animal life. So the human life should be saved at the sacrifice of animals. That is another question. But where there is complete facilities to get very nice, nutritious food, why these poor animals should be killed?

 

Revatinandana:

But in the last week we've had a Jesuit priest, a Black Friar's monk, several other theologically inclined Christian gentlemen have been here, and not one of them has assented to that statement. They do not agree. They think that...

 

Prabhupada:

They do not agree that animal killing is sinful. They do not agree.

 

Schumacher:

It's a very long question, isn't it. I mean...

 

Prabhupada:

No, it is a simple question. Killing, do you think killing is very good business? Then why it is forbidden, "Thou shall not kill."

 

Schumacher:

No, but sometimes protection is necessary.

 

Prabhupada:

That is another thing. Generally, you should not kill. But when there is absolute necessity, that is another thing. But generally, this killing process you cannot support, and at the same time, you want to make the society purified. You commit sinful activities; at the same time, you want to purify. How it is possible?

 

Schumacher:

I think a society can survive, and spirituality can survive, even among meat-eaters. It's much more difficult, I imagine, that a society can survive which has animal factories.....I mean there is the ruling assumption that you need it, which I challenge and you challenge.... The Buddhists have got a good, a good formula on this, and...

 

Prabhupada:

It is not the question of Buddhist, Christian or Hindu. It is common sense philosophy.

 

Schumacher:

The Buddhists have a good compromise on this. They say you can eat meat...

 

Prabhupada:

No, no strict Buddhist will say.

 

Schumacher:

...but because you're not allowed to kill animals for eating meat.

 

Prabhupada:

What is this?

 

Schumacher:

So they let the Muslims kill the animals.

 

Prabhupada:

Eight kinds of criminals. In killing animals, there are eight kinds of criminals. One who is killing, one who is ordering, one who is purchasing, one who is eating, one who is cooking, in this way... Just like if a man is killed. If a man is killed and there are so many persons implicated, it does not mean that only one who has killed, he becomes criminal. All others who are implicated in that killing business, they are criminals. This is pollution....

 

God consciousness cannot be achieved without being pure. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan [bg. 10.12]. God is the supreme pure. You cannot approach God, you cannot understand God, in impure condition. And without God consciousness, there cannot be any purification. You try to understand this simple fact, that without God consciousness, you may prescribe so many things -- they will be all failure, all failure. And God consciousness cannot be achieved without being pure. This is the problem. Now you can think over it.

 

Schumacher:

I agree with that.

 

Prabhupada:

Yes. You can defend your theory but that will not help purification of the society. That will not help. Take it for granted. You can make so many theories but if you remain impure, if you are not God conscious, all these theories will be useless. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna mano-rathe... [sB 5.18.12]. This is simply mental speculation. Mano-rathena, hovering on the mental plane, you can jump from this to that, but that will not solve the problem. Mano-rathenasati dhavato bahih. So we do not act on mental speculation. It may be our credit or discredit. That is different thing. We simply follow the standard policy. That is Krsna consciousness. Now, everything is described in the Bhagavad-gita, how to become a brahmana, how to become a ksatriya, how to become a vaisya, how to become a sudra, or how to remain less important than the sudras. The societies must be divided in different divisions. They should work conjointly...

 

 

[bija]

Someone here said that all us guys just want to be wanna be gurus while not practicing in our private lives. That is a fair comment! But then again some of us are not perfect but sincere in the practice we do perform (even if minimal), trying to serve guru.

 

Sincere devotees try their best to be simple. Kulapavana and others have their views on philosophy, but mostly speak respectful...showing more what a true devotee in the real world is like . The personalists have reason to talk about their faith system...but when they throw poison and begin personal attacks, using the cover of guru and shastra, we should have enough sense to discern. It may be coming from various aspects of the unclean (self-deceived)heart...

 

Saying this we all cover ourselves with layers of ego in this world....so some of the more crazy goings on here is an example of our deep conditioning. I have been reflecting and contemplating alot lately on how we put labels (identities and false masks) on ourself...coverings like and onion (too afraid to see the center is so tiny in such a big frightful universe)...it is the human condition is it not. I guess we are all in that boat together...so we need to see through that illusion, without tearing each other to bits. Then again I can only speak for myself, and cry to god to release me from that illusion, and self deceit which is second nature.

 

 

 

http://nitaaiveda.com/All_Scriptures_By_Acharyas/Raghunatha_dasa_Goswami/Manah_Shiksha.htmVerse Six

Translation

My dear mind, you have embraced the path of self realization, yet you foolishly think that you are cleansing yourself by bathing in the pretentiously fierce qualities of deceit and fault-finding, which are compared to impure donkey urine. Factually, you are incinerating yourself and dragging an infinitesimal spirit soul like me into the conflagration. Stop this suicidal course! Dive into the immortal ocean of sublime ambrosia that awaits you in loving devotional service at the lotus feet of Shri-Shri Radha and Krishna. Resuscitate my very being and thus give both of us endless happiness.

Shri Bhajana-darpana

This verse gives advice to those who have been able to subdue lust and anger, but have failed to vanquish the great enemy of deceit. The sadhaka, or spiritual practitioner, is of three kinds:

svanistha, devoted to self-realization; parinisthita, dedicated to rules and regulations; and nirapeksa, detached. The svanistha sadhaka completely rejects all the principles of varnasrama dharma and endeavors solely to satisfy the Supreme Lord Hari. The parinisthita-sadhaka organizes his life and activities to conform to the rules of devotional service and Deity worship. These two sadhakas are usually householders. The third type of aspiring devotee, the nirapeksa-sadhaka, or the detached devotee, is a renunciate and celibate. All three would do well to renounce deceitfulness, because deceit and pretense devastate spiritual understanding.

How devotees become deceitful

The svanistha-sadhaka becomes deceitful when he indulges in sense gratification in the name of satisfying the Supreme Lord. Instead of serving the pure-hearted devotees of the Lord, he serves rich and influential materialists and busies himself in accumulation of wealth beyond his needs. With the excuse of educating himself he develops attachment to speculation and logic. Putting on the robes of a renunciate, he strives for worldly acclaim and honor.

The parinisthita-sadhaka becomes deceitful when he makes an external show of strict adherence and dedication to spiritual life but inwardly is attracted to material subjects completely unrelated to Krishna, and prefers the association of the worldly-minded to saintly souls.

When the renunciate, or nirapeksa-sadhaka, becomes deceitful he considers himself to be a very elevated devotee, and exploits the renunciate's dress and status, looking down upon other devotees as if they were inferior. He collects objects and wealth far in excess of the basic requirements for a life of renunciation, and associates with women in the name of spiritual practice or preaching. He leaves the shelter of the temple to collect funds and donations only to remain in close contact with materialists. He is always in anxiety about collecting funds, yet covers his deceit with a show of devotion. He is overly attached to the dress, position, and the rules and regulations of the renounced order, and thus neglects the main purpose of spiritual life, which is to develop attachment for Krishna.

These traits like deceit, fault-finding, speculation, argumentation, etc., are very detrimental to true spiritual realization and have therefore been compared in this verse to the ass. Fools may think that they can bathe in ass urine and become cleansed, but factually it only pollutes their spiritual lives......

.....Humility: the cure for deceit

'In this way, 0 mind, your heart must become saturated with the divine nectar of the holy names of Shri-Shri Radha and Krishna, and remembering Their eternal pastimes you must wander about in Vrndavana.' As soon as the mind allows any nonessential thoughts to enter, deceit immediately attacks the soul again. The heart that has been thus purified by humility can never again open its doors to deceit.