Waking state, dream state, deep sleep state

[Afun]

Hi,

 

Where are these three states first mentioned and described?

Are these three states understood in the same way by all Vedic schools?

 

Regards

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Gita mentions when Krishna asks Arjuna to 'arise' meaning wakeup, from deep sleep. Deep-sleep could mean 2 things one I mentioned and another when sleeping. Part of Gita mentions Yoga Breathing. Which is another type of deep-sleep.

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Afun,

 

Mandukyopanisad is the sourse. It introduces the four states Jakratavasta

(Wake full state ) , Swapnavasta (Dreeming state) Susupti ( Deep sleep )and Turia ( fourth ), as the states of the soul's four parts or conditions.

 

I am reproducing the Mandukyopanisad below ( cut past) for your convenience.

 

1. All this is the letter <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comOm.</st1:place> A vivid explanation of this (is begun). All that is past, present, and future is but <st1:place w:st="on">Om.</st1:place> Whatever transcends the three periods of time, too, is <st1:place w:st="on">Om.</st1:place>

2. All this is certainly Brahman. This Self is Brahman. This Self, as such, is possessed of four quarters.

3. (The Self) seated in the waking state and called Vaisvanara who, possessed of the consciousness of the exterior, and seven limbs and nineteen mouths, enjoys the gross objects, is the first quarter.

4. (The Self) seated in the state of dream and called Taijasa who, possessed of the consciousness of the interior, and seven limbs and nineteen mouths, enjoys the subtle objects, is the second quarter.

5. Where the sleeper desires not a thing of enjoyment and sees not any dream, that state is deep sleep. (The Self) seated in the state of deep sleep and called Prajna, in whom everything is unified, who is dense with consciousness, who is full of bliss, who is certainly the enjoyer of bliss, and who is the door to the knowledge (of the preceding two states), is the third quarter.

6. This is the Lord of all; this is omniscient; this is the in-dwelling controller (of all); this is the source and indeed the origin and dissolution of all beings.

7. The Fourth is thought of as that which is not conscious of the internal world, nor conscious of the external world, nor conscious of both the worlds, nor dense with consciousness, nor simple consciousness, nor unconsciousness, which is unseen, actionless, incomprehensible, uninferable, unthinkable, indescribable, whose proof consists in the identity of the Self (in all states), in which all phenomena come to a cessation, and which is unchanging, auspicious, and non-dual. That is the Self; that is to be known.

8. That same Self, from the point of view of the syllable, is <st1:place w:st="on">Om</st1:place>, and viewed from the stand point of the letters, the quarters are the letters, and the letters are the quarters. The letters are a, u and m.

9. Vaisvanara seated in the waking state is the first letter a, owing to its all-pervasiveness or being the first. He who knows thus verily accomplishes all longings and becomes the first.

10. Taijasa seated in the dream is u, the second letter (of <st1:place w:st="on">Om</st1:place>), owing to the similarity of excellence or intermediate position. He who knows thus verily advances the bounds of his knowledge and becomes equal (to all) and none who is not a knower of Brahman is born in his family.

11. Prajna seated in the state of deep sleep is m, the third letter (of <st1:place w:st="on">Om</st1:place>), because of his being the measure or the entity wherein all become absorbed. He who knows thus measures all this and absorbs all.

12. That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus <st1:place w:st="on">Om</st1:place> is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[srikanthdk71]

Dear Afun, Mandukyopanishad is the Source as rightly pointed out by Ravindranji. I dont know how the schools experience these states, but I experience it as,

 

Jaagrat - When I am experiencing the world with my 5 Sense Organs(Gnanendriya) and 5 Organs or work(Karmendriya)

Swapn - When I am experiencing the world in state of sleep as Dream State.

Sushupti- When I am not experiencing anything in state of Deep Sleep and yet when I am awake I know that 'I enjoyed a Good Sleep'.

Turiya - The 4th State of Conciousness where the Knower is awake and in a thoughtless state(Mind absent).

[Afun]

Thank you for replies.

 

 

Is it correct to say that the first three states (waking state, dream state, deep sleep state) are considered material and the forth state (turiya) is spiritual/transcendental)?

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Afun,

 

In a strict narrow sense of 'spiritual' yes. However in a broader sense everything is spiritual. The third state of the soul the one in deep sleep is called Iswara (god) in manduka Upanasid. If God is spiritual then the sleeping state too is spiritual. Is in't it? . We can extend the notion of Spirituality to other states too.

 

But You are right In the sepcial sense -or Unique sense of of - 'Spiritual' would only refer to that mysterious fourth state - which is beyond sense experience and thought and language - only to be known in a mystical experience.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[Afun]

The fourth state is samadhi.

And there are two definitions of samadhi:

- Impersonalists definition of samadhi and

- Personalists definition of samadhi.

 

And the interpretation of samadhi is the arguing topic between Advaitins and Dvaitins (Achintya-Bheda-Abheda for example).

 

Is this correct?

[Radhe_Shyam]

Fourth state is not personalist at all. It is clearly impersonalistic as per Mandukya upanisad as given in the previous post.

"Which is unseen actionless incomprehensible, uninfrrable unthinkable indescribable ....and nonduel" . ( cf Item no.7 in mundukyopanisad post)

 

Radhe Shyam