The importance of seeing Krishna in others

[theist]

Lord Kapila said:

 

SB 3.29.22 - One who worships the Deity of Godhead in the temples but does not know that the Supreme Lord, as Paramätmä, is situated in every living entity's heart, must be in ignorance and is compared to one who offers oblations into ashes.

 

SB 3.29.23 - One who offers Me respect but is envious of the bodies of others and is therefore a separatist never attains peace of mind, because of his inimical behavior towards other living entities.

 

SB 3.29.24 - My dear Mother, even if he worships with proper rituals and paraphernalia, a person who is ignorant of My presence in all living entities never pleases Me by the worship of My Deities in the temple.

 

SB 3.29.25 - Performing his prescribed duties, one should worship the Deity of the Supreme Personality of Godhead until one realizes My presence in his own heart and in the hearts of other living entities as well.

 

SB 3.29.26 - As the blazing fire of death, I cause great fear to whoever makes the least discrimination between himself and other living entities because of a differential outlook.

 

SB 3.29.27 - Therefore, through charitable gifts and attention, as well as through friendly behavior and by viewing all to be alike, one should propitiate Me, who abide in all creatures as their very Self.

[Svarupa]

 

Lord Kapila said:

 

SB 3.29.22 - One who worships the Deity of Godhead in the temples but does not know that the Supreme Lord, as Paramätmä, is situated in every living entity's heart, must be in ignorance and is compared to one who offers oblations into ashes.

 

SB 3.29.23 - One who offers Me respect but is envious of the bodies of others and is therefore a separatist never attains peace of mind, because of his inimical behavior towards other living entities.

 

Well, theist you have described nearly everyone on these threads and probably most of the aspiring devotees

 

Also, if you have an hour to spare, listen to this prabhu. He is saying we have to understand Prabhupada's spiritual message and not so much on his comments in his books on material subject matter such as dealing with women or, for example, Quote -

 

Hridayananda Swami - "Prabhupada's comment is that homosexuality is not even found in the animal Kingdome, when scientifically we know for a fact it does exist in the animal kingdom".

 

Many many more points he honestly trys to understand himself

 

 

<LI class=rss_item>Understanding Srila Prabhupada’s teachings correctly.

1.11 min recorded video from the latest 9th August - video - conference of Hridayananda Swami with the devotees of Sydney, Australia....

This could be interesting to you, what do you think?

[guliaditya]

 

Lord Kapila said:

 

SB 3.29.22 - One who worships the Deity of Godhead in the temples but does not know that the Supreme Lord, as Paramätmä, is situated in every living entity's heart, must be in ignorance and is compared to one who offers oblations into ashes.

 

SB 3.29.23 - One who offers Me respect but is envious of the bodies of others and is therefore a separatist never attains peace of mind, because of his inimical behavior towards other living entities.

 

SB 3.29.24 - My dear Mother, even if he worships with proper rituals and paraphernalia, a person who is ignorant of My presence in all living entities never pleases Me by the worship of My Deities in the temple.

 

SB 3.29.25 - Performing his prescribed duties, one should worship the Deity of the Supreme Personality of Godhead until one realizes My presence in his own heart and in the hearts of other living entities as well.

 

SB 3.29.26 - As the blazing fire of death, I cause great fear to whoever makes the least discrimination between himself and other living entities because of a differential outlook.

 

SB 3.29.27 - Therefore, through charitable gifts and attention, as well as through friendly behavior and by viewing all to be alike, one should propitiate Me, who abide in all creatures as their very Self.

 

Nice post Theistji,

 

The same is confirmed by Shree Krishna in Srimad Bhagavad Gita also.

 

 

This is the true knowledge.Such a self realised being is very rare.

 

Pranaam

[theist]

 

This could be interesting to you, what do you think?

 

To be honest Svarupa I avoid hearing from this person. His latest fiasco was suggesting Iskcon should accept homo-marriages. He is an intelligent person and I am sure he has many correct and interesting things to say but he comes to some seriously flawed conclusions, like thinking he was appointed one of the 11 guru 's etc.

 

Anyway all that is needed to concentrate on the abundance of transcendental truths that he gave us in his books, like his translations of Kapila's teachings above.

 

What do you get from those verses? What do you thnk it is specifically that prevents us from seeing Krsna in the hearts of others?

[theist]

Aditya,

 

Yes it a basic realization. Sometimes we assume we can just ignore Paramatma in others and become Manjaris or Gopis instead. We try to find Krishna in Vrndavan while ignoring Him in our immediate neighbors.

 

Is this not a form of sahajism?

 

Sorry I cannot read devanagari. Please share that verse from the Gita in English for us westerners.

[Svarupa]

 

What do you get from those verses? What do you thnk it is specifically that prevents us from seeing Krsna in the hearts of others?.

 

The answer a far as I'm concerned is personal realization, if we can understand we are not the material body and the dreaded mind, then we can understand that others are not their bodies and mind and see that Vishnu is in the hearts of ALL living beings, not just humans. This cannot be imitated, there must be personal realization of Krsna in the heart

 

 

SB 3.29.22 - One who worships the Deity of Godhead in the temples but does not know that the Supreme Lord, as Paramätmä, is situated in every living entity's heart, must be in ignorance and is compared to one who offers oblations into ashes.

.

[theist]

 

The answer a far as I'm concerned is personal realization, if we can understand we are not the material body and the dreaded mind, then we can understand that others are not their bodies and mind and see that Vishnu is in the hearts of ALL living beings, not just humans. This cannot be imitated, there must be personal realization of Krsna in the heart

 

I agree. What I see is that this personal realization is based on desire. Krishna wants us to be conscious of Him and Krishna is within the heart fulfilling the desires of everyone so the fact that I am not recognizing Him must mean that I don't really want to, I have a separate agenda...I am still a separatist at heart.

 

While maintaining a desire separate from Krishna's no one can enter or remain in Krishna consciousness.

 

We are either motivated to serve the Lord or exploit His energy for personal sense gratification. I have noticed something quite often. I may watching people walk by and be thinking of the Lord and how He inhabits everyone and everything. Usually this is inspired by just having read a verse stating as much.

 

While contemplating in this way an attractive female will come into view and immediately all the high thinking goes straight out the window and is replaced with lust. No way can I maintain the thought of Krishna residing in her heart and at the same time feel lust for her form. The fact that lust remains in the dominant position means that my taste for it overrides any so-call Krishna consciousness that I may have developed.

 

The desire to exploit others and Krishna consciousness go ill together.

[Svarupa]

 

While contemplating in this way an attractive female will come into view and immediately all the high thinking goes straight out the window .

 

No offense prabhu, I had a hearty laugh over your prose, but in all seriousness, yes. it is Maya's duty to test everyone to make sure no one disturbs Krsna.

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by theist

SB 3.29.23 - 'One who offers Me respect but is envious of the bodies of others and is therefore a separatist never attains peace of mind, because of his inimical behavior towards other living entities'.

 

While maintaining a desire separate from Krishna's no one can enter or remain in Krishna consciousness. We are either motivated to serve the Lord or exploit His energy for personal sense gratification.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

Somehow, by the mercy of the lord and devotees we trust, to see Krsna in the heart of all, we must pass Maya's tests of being foolishly attracted by the outer material body of female, male, opulance, power, fame, worship, profit, adaratione distinction tc etc. HOW DO WE DO THIS?

 

Also, just because one wears tilak, dhoti, sannyas dress and repeats or immitates the philosophy like a peacock, as I rescently experience with one 'swami', CERTAINLY does not nessessary make him realized.

 

Some of these 'so-called' sannyasi's in any of the movements out there, are in it for the adaration, followers, worship and often don't even realize this themselves. I found that some so called sannyasi's cleverly working from the 'dreaded mental platform' that stops ALL OF THEM from seeing Krsna in the heart others.

 

Such an advanced level of taking sannyas should only be taken when they can see this. Even Prabhupada in the 1920's was very careful dealing with the 'many sannysis' who ere not spiritually advanced.

 

In the same way, It is obvious to me that their called advancement is just a show.

 

As the saying goes, '"if I am sincere, then Krsna will send a 'genuin devotee' to me"

 

After my experience with some sannyasis in and out of ISKCON, I will be very alert and careful who to trust and associate with. It's not that they are not sincere and committed, it is rather they are still operating from the mental platform and are therefor not really advanced.

 

Their outward clothing is only a show of 'advancement'. I will now tread very carefully around many like this and frankly, I don't trust most of them.

 

Anyway, it's all a test, somehow I also have to see Krsna in the heart

"If I am sincere, then Krsna will send a 'genuin devotee' to help me, maybe that's you theist "

 

One thing I have learnt over the years, don't just think 'devotees' are only found in a Temple because in many cases, it is even difficult there to find a genuin selfless, prideless devotee '"above the mental platform".

 

Sorry but I can't put up with people pretending to be a sannyasi and guru, it's not being critical, it is being realistic after the 11 chosen guru fiasco.

[Svarupa]

 

. Sometimes we assume we can just ignore Paramatma in others and become Manjaris or Gopis instead. We try to find Krishna in Vrndavan while ignoring Him in our immediate neighbors.

 

Excellent realisation

[theist]

 

Anyway, it's all a test, somehow I also have to see Krsna in the heart

"If I am sincere, then Krsna will send a 'genuin devotee' to help me, maybe that's you theist "

 

Now that belongs on the joke board bro.

 

You are wise to be cautious. We have all let ourselves be burned to many times.

[guliaditya]

 

Aditya,

 

Yes it a basic realization. Sometimes we assume we can just ignore Paramatma in others and become Manjaris or Gopis instead. We try to find Krishna in Vrndavan while ignoring Him in our immediate neighbors.

 

Is this not a form of sahajism?

 

Sorry I cannot read devanagari. Please share that verse from the Gita in English for us westerners.

 

The verse is from chapter 7, sloka no 19.

[Svarupa]

 

Now that belongs on the joke board bro.

 

You are wise to be cautious. We have all let ourselves be burned to many times.

Serious Prabhu, since I have come to this website, your wisdom and occasional critizism has helped me put things in perspective. I don't know if Jahnava Nitai prabhu sees how his website has helped many people like myself, I think you would be a good moderator on this thread and maybe a few others as a service. Of course with rules.

 

Somehow someway EVERYONE has to brought back to Krishna, and this is only the begining of the computor age.

 

It is NEVER time to stop preaching, just sit down and nut out a more practical way for everyone. Even the Gaudiya math should have their own thread to discuss the pastimes of Lord Caitanya

[Vigraha]

 

Lord Kapila said:

 

SB 3.29.22 - One who worships the Deity of Godhead in the temples but does not know that the Supreme Lord, as Paramätmä, is situated in every living entity's heart, must be in ignorance and is compared to one who offers oblations into ashes.

 

SB 3.29.23 - One who offers Me respect but is envious of the bodies of others and is therefore a separatist never attains peace of mind, because of his inimical behavior towards other living entities.

 

SB 3.29.24 - My dear Mother, even if he worships with proper rituals and paraphernalia, a person who is ignorant of My presence in all living entities never pleases Me by the worship of My Deities in the temple.

 

SB 3.29.25 - Performing his prescribed duties, one should worship the Deity of the Supreme Personality of Godhead until one realizes My presence in his own heart and in the hearts of other living entities as well.

 

SB 3.29.26 - As the blazing fire of death, I cause great fear to whoever makes the least discrimination between himself and other living entities because of a differential outlook.

 

SB 3.29.27 - Therefore, through charitable gifts and attention, as well as through friendly behavior and by viewing all to be alike, one should propitiate Me, who abide in all creatures as their very Self.

[theist]

 

SB 3.29.24 - My dear Mother, even if he worships with proper rituals and paraphernalia, a person who is ignorant of My presence in all living entities never pleases Me by the worship of My Deities in the temple.

One angle of vision tells us the temple altar is representative of the hearts of the living beings. As we learn to recognize the Lord standing in the Deity form of the temple we must also learn to recognize Him standing within ourselves and all others without discrimination.

 

Our consciousness of God must be ever-expanding.

 

Every living being is a temple housing the Supreme Lord and thus worthy of respect.

 

[theist]

 

SB 3.29.26 - As the blazing fire of death, I cause great fear to whoever makes the least discrimination between himself and other living entities because of a differential outlook.

 

 

Isn't this truth. When we make discrimination between ourselves and others due to conceiving ourselves and others according to material designations such as black & white, friend & foe etc. (differental outlook) then that means we are conceiving of ourselves and others as various beings all under the grip of eternal time which have a begining and an end (death).

 

The thought, the very idea of death is foreign and frightening to the eternal self.

 

The only liberation from this fear is to rise to the platform of vision where all living beings are seen as eternal parts of Krishna. And when we consider that we all share a oneness with Krishna that also directly implies a oneness with all others.

[Ashvatama]

 

Isn't this truth. When we make discrimination between ourselves and others due to conceiving ourselves and others according to material designations such as black & white, friend & foe etc. (differental outlook) then that means we are conceiving of ourselves and others as various beings all under the grip of eternal time which have a begining and an end (death).

 

The thought, the very idea of death is foreign and frightening to the eternal self.

 

The only liberation from this fear is to rise to the platform of vision where all living beings are seen as eternal parts of Krishna. And when we consider that we all share a oneness with Krishna that also directly implies a oneness with all others.

 

Wow, this goes straight to the heart.

[bloominglotus_harekrishna]

I'm so glad I read this, what a wonderful reminder - Thank You for helping me to put things into perspective!! As a new devotee, this takes constant training...Well I guess we all are constantly "training", some need more than others

 

I was having trouble with this as my family are non-devotees and I live with very hostile people, one of whom abuses alcohol and drugs and is a very mean person. Sometimes this makes the concept of Paramatma a little tough to grasp at times.....

But the other day, I gazed at this person(the alcoholic/addict) trying to find the Krsna there within them...The person was having a tough day as they didn't have enough money for alcohol. I saw them let out a sigh, looking quite exhausted, and I thought about how the Paramatma within them is fighting to get out - Even in a sigh of exhaustion, it was palpable...At that moment the normally hostile, angry person who is normally very loud and proud was, in a way, seeing the impermanence of body and the pleasures of the senses...Frustrated in withdrawal, that person was forced to yield to the truth that is the impermanence of this body and its senses...Thereby dropping their ego for a moment. Though they weren't in prayer or anything...Though that person was frustrated...It was a sort of submission....I looked at that person for the first time ever for their Paramatma, and respected them despite their usual cruel behaviour towards me...Because underneath it all, they are a spiritsoul just trying to get back home - A morsel of Krsna, trapped on Earth....But their physical body and mind are polluted and thus, currently unable to assist them as a vehicle. I felt a love for this person, for the first time in a long time, and tried for the rest of the day to make that person smile...Haha...And I succeeded! It helped that the person was sober. But it helped keep me from being blinded by the effects of drugs on this person - The effect of alcohol and drugs were merely a facade, keeping me from seeing the Truth of Krsna in them as well.

 

In doing everything we can to keep Krsna in our thoughts at all times, and pulling ourselves back towards thoughts of him when they stray, understanding this concept is so very crucial - The importance of seeing Paramatma in all ensures that our view isn't skewed by a differential outlook which is the main boundary, the main thing that stops us from thinking about Krsna to begin with. And seeing Krsna in everything means you don't "try" to remember Him, it enables one to be in the state of seeing the Truth constantly...Because in this state one can see that is He IS everything and everything IS Him...Understanding the concept of Paramatma residing in all, is so essential for attaining and maintaining a true state of Krsna-consciousness.....I need to hold strong to this, as we all should.

 

Again, thank you for the reminder. The more we understand this, the more we will see the world for its Truth, and it's very important to remember

 

HARE KRSNA

[theist]

bloominglotus,

 

We are all beginners here. That was great work on your part fighting through the conditioned response of repulsion to see the Lord in that person's heart. I grew up in a family environment plauged by alcoholism and no how hard that is.

 

I myself was 2cm's away from becoming a heroin addict in 1969. Christ mercifully handled my intervention and pointed me to Krishna consciousness. Who can say what dark lands (idenities) we all have walked through in our past lives. I have come to assume I have done about every evil deed imaginable at some point and now I struggle with self-righteousness. I wonder which is worse, being a drug addict or a self-righteous religious man? I think I know.

 

Here is a wonderful and apropo verse from Sri Gita that we must always take inspiration from.

 

 

He is a perfect yogi who, by comparison to his own self, sees the true equality of all beings, in both their happiness and their distress, O Arjuna! Gita 6.32

[Mahatma Dasa]

Haribol Theist, thanks for your post!

 

These verses make me think how important it is to be vegetarian. Most people shy away from hurting other people, but won't hesitate to feast with great joy on the pain and suffering of living entities who have had the misfortune to be born in animal bodies.

 

We should have compassion for all and not see any differences due to bodily coverings. Pain is pain whatever sort of body you have.

 

Being the supersoul in all bodies Lord Krishna is aware of the pain and distress of all living entities. So are we not inflicting suffering on God when we inflict suffering on others, and through karma, on ourselves too?

 

Forgive me for my simplistic views

Hare Krishna

Mahatma Das

[theist]

 

Being the supersoul in all bodies Lord Krishna is aware of the pain and distress of all living entities. So are we not inflicting suffering on God when we inflict suffering on others, and through karma, on ourselves too?

 

 

I agree completely. Christ said: "Whatever you do to the lest of these (others) you do to me." We can offend the Lord by offending others and we can serve the Lord by serving others.

 

Everything is connected. The silk cloth came from silk worm. If my obtaining the nice silk cloth came at the expense of increased suffering from the silk worm then do I really need it or even should I offer it to the Lord considering He is the same Supersoul who witnessed the suffering of the silk worm?

 

Forgive me for my simplistic views

 

Why should I forgive you for "simplistic views"? I can only view simple things in simple ways myself. Fortunately for us Krishna is the most simple as well as the most complex.

[Sarva gattah]

 

We can offend the Lord by offending others and we can serve the Lord by serving others.

Everything is connected.

 

 

 

 

You are having some pretty amazing realizations theist, sure I've heard it before but reading it the way you have explained penetrates deeper into the heart.

You have got me looking at every living creature now thinking Vishnu is there within that material body who is accompanying the covered jiva soul who foolishly thinks they are the material body.

Furthermore, I am now 'thinking' EVERY jiva soul in those material bodies is potentially a devotee of Krsna however, they are unfortunately too busy playing out their role of the 'material body' they are in, that restricts them from seeing Krsna right next to themselves.

And further restricts them from realizing Vishnu is accompanying ALL the other jiva souls trapped in other material bodies that number 8,400,000 life forms or vessels in the material world

I say 'thinking' because I haven't realized this yet

Thanks for posting you aspiring realizations theist

[theist]

 

I say 'thinking' because I haven't realized this yet

 

Nor have I. But even some glimpses from our mental plane perspective is helpful and it gives us inspiration to continue on.

 

One thing is for sure and that is we cannot realize this knowledge while our hearts are inclined to exploit others. How can we maintain a vision of the Lord in someone's heart and simultaneously see them as objects of exploitation?

 

"No man can serve two masters."

[Sarva gattah]

 

How can we maintain a vision of the Lord in someone's heart and simultaneously see them as objects of exploitation?

 

"No man can serve two masters."

 

There is also the otherside of this to, being obseesed with hating the exploiter as explained as follows -

 

Once, near the peaceful village of Vrndavana, the transcendental place where Krsna manifested His pastimes on earth, there lived a scholarly brahmana (priest) and servant of Krsna. Opposite his home, there lived a prostitute.

As a daily observance, the brahmana would sit in his doorway and recite the Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, then cook offering for the Deities in the Temple, his cooking abilities were famous throughout the land. Meanwhile, across the street, the

prostitute would tend to her business.

As the years passed, the brahmana grew ever more disturbed by the prostitute.

‘Just see how lowly and disgusting she is, how can such a low life who takes pleasure in exploiting others ever leave her disgraceful body near the beautiful land of Vrndavana.’ He would proudly and arrogantly think to himself, then continued with his recitation while cooking various preparations.

It so happened that both the brahmana and the prostitute died at the same time. To the brahmana’s surprise, the Vishnuduttas (the Lord of Vaikuntha’s messengers) came to deliver the prostitute while the Yamadutas (the Lord of Death’s messengers) came for him.

‘What is this’? he protested to the Yamadutas.

‘There must be some mistake!’

The Yamadutas replied,

‘My dear brahmana, there is no mistake. While you were busy meditating on the lowly activities of the prostitute, she listened to you recite the Gita and prayed that she could one day elevate herself to your position.

In this way the prostitute achieved liberation while you only degraded yourself to take birth on a planet of prostitutes.’

[theist]

That is a very instructive story. Exploitation though is different from revulsion. Exploitation refers to how we automatically size up someone to see if we can derive some sense gratification from using them.

 

The problem for us is the soul proper is beyond the reach of our attempts to exploit it. Krishna however is so liberal that allows us to think we are exploiting a real person by providing an illusory image for us to dream of exploiting...a false Sita.

 

The spirtsoul proper is meant to be enjoyed by Krishna only. Ravanna never touched the real Sita. Ravanna represents to the exploitive mentality that is characteristic of all the inmates of the material world... we want to directly enjoy the energy of Rama apart from Rama.

 

As long as we want to exploit Krishna's energy apart from Krishna it is only common sense to know that we must be in a state of forgetfullness of Krishna to attempt it.

 

We cannot serve Reality and illusion at the same time. These are the two masters.

Many of us are still sitting on the fence. I've been up here for decades now. I have to admit though my butt is getting mighty sore... gotta make a choice.