The material world has NO ‘present time’;only past, future, decay, and impermanence.

weallshineon · September 8, 2008

A thought provoking read -

“The material world actually has NO ‘present time’ at all; there is only past, future time, that has the effect of decay, and impermanence.

The creation of the Dreaming Universes, known as the mahat-tattva or material creation, is for those few Dreaming souls (less than 10% of all jivas) who choose to leave Gods Kingdom Goloka and do their own thing

This is the fact according to Srila Prabhupada who rejects the nonsense 'impersonal Brahmajyoti origin theory

Yogis impersonally describe the impersonal Brahmajyoti to be our original state that is on the border, in-between the land and the ocean (meaning Goloka and the material world) This understanding is completely wrong and rejected by Srila Prabhupada

They do not understand the concept of the 'eternal present', where the full possible bodily expression and potential of the jiva is eternally found within the perpetual ‘present’ of Goloka that has no past or future - only the eternal 'NOW' exists there in endless devotion to Krsna.

We, the Jiva tatastha (tatastha simply meaning we, the soul have the free will to choose) are expressed there as who we really are without the concept of past or future, that makes us imperishable in our endless body, ALWAYS within that realm of the perpetual ‘presents’.

The eternal present or the forever 'now' found only in Goloka. What is there, is ALWAYS there, meaning we are in Goloka now even though we are dreaming we are in the material creation of past and future that is devoid of any 'present'.

It is there in Goloka or Krsnaloka our perpetual identity, personality and individuality is endlessly serving beautiful Krishna as our perpetual ‘svarupa’ body (nitya siddha), even if we sometimes forget that fact and 'dream' or 'think' we are in the material world.

The paradox here is no one never really leaves Goloka, they only dream, think and imagine they do by falling out of sync with the 'eternal present' and enter the dreams of Maha-Vishnu within His mahat-tattva creation.

The only thing that has changed is the ones awareness of 'eternal time' in relation to 'divided time' - hence it is not a division of consciousness, but rather a division of time, just like when the concept of mundane time changes while one is dreaming.

Actually when one again becomes aware of their eternal nitya-siddha body in Goloka and the eternal relationship they have with Krishna, it will be as if their baddha-jiva dream state, that has entered the dreams of the sleeping Maha-Vishnu in His mahat-tattva material creation, taking on a bogus identity of one of His material bodily creations, never existed.

On return to the 'eternal present’, or simply waking up from dreaming in the mahat-tattva, it will be as if they never left because nothing has changed in Goloka.

It is important to REALIZE that Goloka is a pure devotional place where perpetual loving service to Krsna, happens within the 'eternal present', devoid of past, future, decay and bodily absentees – every living entity is represented there by their permanent ‘svarupa’ body (Also known as the Siddha-jiva) of whom is them without beginning or end

The material world, on the other hand, actually has NO ‘present’ at all; there is only past, future, decay, and impermanence.

The mahat-tattva is where the living entities can ‘sub-consciously’ project themselves and experience their own dreamed-up manifestation, created by their own thoughts and dreams.

This secondary consciousness, which cannot exist or be expressed in bodily form in Goloka, is called the baddha-jiva.

Entering the material world therefore, is not a change of bodies, but rather a change of consciousness where the baddha-jiva is given bodily form by Maha-Vishnu in the restricted realm of past and future where the repercussions is a universe that is perishable and temporary resulting in the cycle of birth and death..

On the other hand, the ‘eternal present’ means exactly that ones body, service and position in Goloka, IS ETERNAL. This means ones ‘svarupa’ body is always in Goloka even if one is dreaming they are in the mahat-tattva.

Further more, the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Impersonal Brahman is not a place where one goes; it is not some empty place or void, it is rather, a dormant state of bodiless consciousness the marginal living entities or souls, in the baddha-jiva condition, go. That is, after they have freed themselves from the ethereal and biological material bodies, provided by Maha-Vishnu FROM within his mahat-tattva creation.

However, this place is also just a further dream state separate from the mahat-tattva the marginal living entity enters (as baddha-jiva dream manifestation) and is also a temporary state of consciousness one enters.

This motionless individual inactive dreamless baddha-jiva consciousness within the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, can also be active or energetic in the mahat-tattva (material creation)

This nitya-baddha inferior self, or the secondary dreaming state of the marginal living entity, is actually a bodiless condition of the jiva until it is provided bodily form or a vessel for expressing their desires, provided by Maha Vishnu within his dream creation.

This nitya-baddha bodiless consciousness is the inferior dreaming condition that all marginal living entities can activate if they choose to use their free will to ‘dream’ of self importance and indulgence.

Srila Prabhupada- "There are many energies, but they have been divided into three principal ones: the external energy, the internal energy, and the marginal energy. We living entities are the marginal energy. Marginal means that we may remain under the influence of the external energy or we may remain under the influence of the internal energy, as we like". From "The Journey of Self Discovery - His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

In other words, the marginal living entities secondary conscious projection is known as the baddha-jiva soul within the maha-tattva.

The marginal living entity actually has two aspects of consciousness; one is 'eternal form' of sat, cit, ananda, Vigraha or ones perpetual Krishna Conscious bodily form known as nitya-siddha, while the other is a non-Krishna conscious dreaming bodiless state called the nitya-baddha

The nitya siddha body is imperishable and never fades away, due to being eternally established within the 'eternal present' of Goloka, while the other is a dreaming bodiless state that enters the mahat tattva and is given form according to desires of self interest.

The living entities, as their nitya-siddha body, are properly situated within the Lord’s internal energy as a perpetual bodily servant that is known as ones perpetual 'Svarupa'.

When the marginal living entity misuses their independence and tries to act as enjoyers or lords; they are transferred to the material energy or mahat-tattva, not as their nitya siddha body, but rather, as a secondary dreaming consciousness called nitya-baddha.

Tatastha

The Lord has three basic energies: internal, external, and marginal.

The living entities do not only belong to the marginal energy, they ARE the marginal energy or tatastha sakti that is embodied in their original full constitutional foundation, which is expressed as nitya-siddha in their innovative perpetual position.

Tatastha is another name for jiva tattva, marginal living entity, or jiva soul soul that also incorporates the jiva souls ability to choice the land or Goloka and the mahat-tattva or the ocean. The marginal living entity is therefore known as "tatastha sakti"

The nitya-baddha consciousness is the result of the jiva executing and projecting its free will to ignore Krsna and chase their own plans of existence in the maha-tattva.

When the baddha-jiva becomes frustrated with the mahat-tattva, and still denies their eternal existence with Krsna as nitya-siddha, he enters into a dormant inactive state of his own dreaming consciousness, that is known as the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti. This state of dormant consciousness is ONLY achieved after being liberated from the mahat-tattva, which is really and factually the Impersonal aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti, or their own individual consciousness.

That means, although we are properly situated within the Lord’s internal energy in our ‘svarupa’ body eternally beyond mundane time and space, we always have the propensity to misuse our independence.

This means we may choose to try and act as enjoyers or lords of all we purvey that immediately disqualifies us from being aware of our ‘svarupa’ body, and instead try to lord it over Krishna’s material energy that is under the jurisdiction of the sleeping and dreaming Maha-Vishnu.

Srila Prabhupada- "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. ". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971

Srila Prabhupada - "You are ever-liberated (nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, Actually, you are NOT conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to God or Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Homburg, Germany, June 22, 1974”

By Gauragopala dasa

primate · September 8, 2008

These are fascinating ideas.

Regards

Virakrsna · September 9, 2008

These are fascinating ideas.

Regards

Agree, this is even difficult to understand without realization. Even my local Temple president says now is the present but actually there is no present in the material world, it's always the past, what you reading is always in the past. Wow, the Goloka realm of the eternal present tiime of love and devotion is inconievable while we are trapped in this material body and mind.

Sunds · September 9, 2008

Good article...

Ananta Sesa · September 21, 2008

But why do then Srila Prabhupada say in his books that there is past, present and future here in the material world?

suchandra · September 22, 2008

But why do then Srila Prabhupada say in his books that there is past, present and future here in the material world?

If there would be no present the jivas could not create new karmas. For the conditioned souls future karmic reactions are created now, in present. It might appear that the present instantly turns into past but still, when someone performs a sinful activity he does it in the present.

Above past, present and future is only transcendental activity.

Sarva gattah · September 22, 2008

But why do then Srila Prabhupada say in his books that there is past, present and future here in the material world?

The way I understand this from reading Srila Prabhupada's books is that the eternal present means exactly that. In Vaikuntha there is no past or future

Where as in the material world the present instantly turns into past. This is the point Gauragopala dasa is trying to make

He is comparing the 'eternal present' of the Krsnaloka with the so called present of the material world.

In this comparison, there is no present in the material world because the present in the material world is actually the past. Isn't this a fact? What is the NOW, the present, is now the past.

Hence, there is only the reality of past and future in the material creation because the present is always slipping into and becoming the past

Srimad Bhagavatam 11.22

"The mind, bound to the reactions of fruitive work, always meditates on the objects of the senses, both those that are seen in this world and those that are heard about from Vedic authority. Consequently, the mind appears to come into being and to suffer annihilation along with its objects of perception, and thus its ability to distinguish past and future is lost".

Notice the missing of the word present. The purport does not explain this

Suchandra's explanation is also correct. There is present but it is instantly the past in the material world.

This is the point Gauragopala is making.

Srila Bhaktivenode Thakur explains futher

Paramahamsa babaji - "The three divisions of time are: 1. past, 2. present and 3. future. These divisions refer to material time, time within the realm of the illusory potency maya. In the spiritual world the present exists eternally.

In the spiritual world the past and future do not exist.

Lord Krsna and the individual spirit soul exist in that eternal present. In this way the individual soul is eternal and his original nature, which is his pure love for Lord Krsna, is also eternal.

Talk of the individual soul's being 'created' or 'fashioned' is a misconception, mistakenly imposing the time patterns of the inanimate material world on a spiritual entity.

The atomic individual soul is spiritual and eternal. He existed before his entrance into the material world. Because in the spiritual world there is no past or future, whatever exists there exists in an eternal present.

Therefore the soul and its nature are both eternal. They exist in that eternal present.

I am only describing this in words. Your understanding will depend on your ability to understand the pure spiritual world. I can only give a hint here.

In spiritual trance you will be able to see all this directly. The logic and argument of this material world will not help you to understand it. Your ability to directly perceive the spiritual world beyond the realm of matter will depend on how much you can loosen the shackles of material bondage.

In the beginning you will see your own pure spiritual form. By again and again chanting the spiritual and holy names of Lord Hari, you will come to understand the nature of the soul.

By practicing astanga-yoga or following the path of the impersonalists you will not be able to see the pure spiritual nature. By directly serving Lord Krsna you will be able to understand the eternal nature of the soul.

Therefore you should chant the holy names of Lord Hari always and with enthusiasm. Only by chanting the names of Lord Hari will you make advancement in spiritual life". From Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Sri Jaiva-dharma Chapter Two The Soul's Eternal Nature is Pure and Everlasting

What is the nature of material time?

The material world is for ever changing, so which events are future, which present, and which past?

Future events become present, present events become past, and past events sink further and further into the past.

Hare Krishna

gauragopala dasa · September 22, 2008

past, present and future is only transcendental activity.

Which means there is no past or future in Vaikuntha because that transcendental service is eternally present. This is a paradox to our materially conditioned mind

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>The way I understand this from reading Srila Prabhupada's books is that the eternal present means exactly that. In Vaikuntha there is no past or future

Where as in the material world the present instantly turns into past. This is the point Gauragopala dasa is trying to make

He is comparing the 'eternal present' of the Krsnaloka with the so called present of the material world.

In this comparison, there is no present in the material world because the present in the material world is actually the past. Isn't this a fact? What is the NOW, the present, is now the past.

Hence, there is only the reality of past and future in the material creation because the present is always slipping into and becoming the past

What is the nature of material time?

The material world is for ever changing, so which events are future, which present, and which past?

Future events become present, present events become past, and past events sink further and further into the past.

Hare Krishna

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Srila Bhaktivenode Thakur "Because in the spiritual world there is no past or future, whatever exists there exists in an eternal present". Jaiva-dharma

That eternal present does not exist in the material world because what ever we experience at present immediately becomes the past therefore, technically, on one hand, there is no present in the material world. Whatever act we perform now is immediately a past event. However, theoretically on the other hand, for us to perform self-centred actions, be it good or bad, there is that flickering passing moment of the present. Hence on this platform in the Jaiva-dharma, material time is explained as past present and future