When I chant Hare Krishna, I keep thinking of Siva. Anything wrong with this?

[Milly]

Well I am trying out different Mantras right now. When I chant Hare Krishna (I have been doing it in the last three days), all my focus keeps going to Siva. Is there anything wrong with this? I can't help it.

 

And sorry if I'm getting on your nerves by asking so many questions

[Amlesh]

You are more blessed than us.

[Milly]

 

You are more blessed than us.

I don't know if I'm more blessed. I just feel very, very confused! I feel like when I try to focus my energy on Krishna, it keeps going back to Siva. So its as if I am calling Siva while I'm chanting to Krishna.

[RamanaDasi]

I agree you are more blessed than me if you naturally feel the presence of Shiva.

[Amlesh]

 

I don't know if I'm more blessed. I just feel very, very confused! I feel like when I try to focus my energy on Krishna, it keeps going back to Siva. So its as if I am calling Siva while I'm chanting to Krishna.

Bhagwatam: Krishna himself says this secret, I cannot be won till love for Shiva is not matured.

 

Ramcharitramanas: Rama says, If someone says He loves me and still he does not love Shiva; he does not love me and vice versa.

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Milly,

It simply means that your mind is in siva and are cut out for Siva bakti. You must do sadana on which your mind naturally gets absorbed for complete benifit. No harm in experimenting and trying different things , but in duecourse settle on one mantra and stabilise in it. There is a reason for it. Every time you change your mantra you are changing the subtle formation that the mantra forms at a spiritual level. Every mantra has a consciousness associated with it. It is called its devada. The devada does not get formed if you keep changing the mantra. Mantra sastra prescribes chanting one mantra for millions of time for it's siddhi. Some mantras are prescribed for a life time even with out change.

 

Do experiment initially, to discover what suits you the most. But then do settle down with one.

 

Your other post on your strange experience with the garba dance on the wall as well as your dream of your mother as goddess confirmes that you are deeply attracted siva and Parvati from the depth of your mind. (Garba dance is gurga's dance) There is no point in fighting with your mind. Follow its intution and inclination in the mater of spiritual sadana. You will be richly rewarded. Everey one is uniquely cut out for a unique davada and mantra, according to mantra sastra and that devada and mantra will manifest in dreem, in visions and in reality as omens.

 

I think Siva is calling you. His mantra camme to you isint it? And he is not leaving you. Listern to him. He is a very great god. He is a grand teacher. In case you need some other mantra he himself will instruct you that. For the time being Just surrender to him and follow him. He is truely truely wonderful teacher. You are very lucky and in safe hands,spiritually.

 

I am talking from my direct experience.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[RamanaDasi]

Ravindran that is very good advice you have given.

[Milly]

 

Dear Milly,

It simply means that your mind is in siva and are cut out for Siva bakti. You must do sadana on which your mind naturally gets absorbed for complete benifit. No harm in experimenting and trying different things , but in duecourse settle on one mantra and stabilise in it. There is a reason for it. Every time you change your mantra you are changing the subtle formation that the mantra forms at a spiritual level. Every mantra has a consciousness associated with it. It is called its devada. The devada does not get formed if you keep changing the mantra. Mantra sastra prescribes chanting one mantra for millions of time for it's siddhi. Some mantras are prescribed for a life time even with out change.

 

Do experiment initially, to discover what suits you the most. But then do settle down with one.

 

Your other post on your strange experience with the garba dance on the wall as well as your dream of your mother as goddess confirmes that you are deeply attracted siva and Parvati from the depth of your mind. (Garba dance is gurga's dance) There is no point in fighting with your mind. Follow its intution and inclination in the mater of spiritual sadana. You will be richly rewarded. Everey one is uniquely cut out for a unique davada and mantra, according to mantra sastra and that devada and mantra will manifest in dreem, in visions and in reality as omens.

 

I think Siva is calling you. His mantra camme to you isint it? And he is not leaving you. Listern to him. He is a very great god. He is a grand teacher. In case you need some other mantra he himself will instruct you that. For the time being Just surrender to him and follow him. He is truely truely wonderful teacher. You are very lucky and in safe hands,spiritually.

 

I am talking from my direct experience.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

 

Thank you Ravindran.

 

I didn't know garba dance had anything to do with Siva. I know about Siva and Krishna but I know very little. I have only recently started chanting mantras. Its the only thing I know how to do because I'm not familiar with all the traditions of Hinduism. I come from a Oshwal Jain family who worship Hindu gods but they are also unfamiliar with all Hindu traditions. So I hope that only chanting is accepted by Siva/Krishna.

[vedicnotes]

Hi Milly,

 

The divine play of the Lord is difficult for us to comprehend. When we experience something like this, we should try to remain calm and let Him complete his explanation (this may take some time). All we can do is -- surrender our spiritual path to Shiva/ Krishna for further guidance. Advice from fellow beings can partially help but only Brahman knows what he wants to teach you. The real answer will come from Him.

 

Your experience may create some extra worry if Radha-Krishna and Shakti-Shiva are two different “individuals” in your mind. Though many Hindu scriptures portray them as being separate (one superior than the other), Brahman, in his form as Shiva, may be teaching you His actual relationship of Oneness with Krishna (or His being “Krishna’s Heart” if he has chosen Vaishnavism for you).

 

By the way, your question reminds me of Rishi Markandeya, who, in spite of being very spiritually advanced, was once surprised when Shiva showed up in his mind without a formal invitation (Srimad Bhagavat Purana; Canto 12; Chapter 10). Shiva suddenly appeared in the sage’s mind while he was meditating only to give him a few blessings. Though this story may not answer your question, it can be an interesting read. And if you decide to read this, do remember that the Srimad Bhagavat presents Hindu spirituality through a Vaishnava lens.

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Milly,

 

Garba dance has notking to do with Siva. It is the dance related to Shakti Durga who is of course the wife of Siva. The experiences you narated points out that you have deep spiritual connection with godess Durga.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[Milly]

 

Dear Milly,

 

Garba dance has notking to go with Siva. It is the dance related to Shakti Gurga who is of course the wife of Siva The experiences you narated points out that you have deep spiritual connection with godess Durga.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

 

Shiva and Parvati are one so the dance is still connecting to him in someway. This is what I meant. I didn't realise there was even the slightest connection.

[bija]

Maybe Amma is calling you Milly;). I could feel her calling the week before.

 

(Lord Harihara)

 

 

The experiences you narated points out that you have deep spiritual connection with godess Durga. by ravindran

Amma experiences Devi bhava...and occasionaly has manifested Durga. In the biography I recommended you there is one story when Durga took charge of Amma...frightening for some. Fortunately for me she just manifested a big hug !

[Milly]

 

Maybe Amma is calling you Milly;). I could feel her calling the week before.

 

(Lord Harihara)

 

 

Amma experiences Devi bhava...and occasionaly has manifested Durga. In the biography I recommended you there is one story when Durga took charge of Amma...frightening for some. Fortunately for me she just manifested a big hug !

 

Lol, maybe . I saw a lady get possessed by mataji when I was at a goini (you know the thing where 9 young girls are called for puja) and yes it was frightening. I thought something else awful was happening to her.

[bhaktajan]

Here's a blast from the past common reply: "Keep chanting and those things will go away".

 

Sincerely, my opinion is you are preceiving shadows of past life penances & austerities you have performed.

 

You who has come to the point of chanting the Hare Krishna Maha-mantra have performed all the Vedic rituals in past lives.

 

.................................................................................

Here are sastric references to what I have said:

SB 3.7.20: Persons whose austerity is meager can hardly obtain the service of the pure devotees who are progressing on the path back to the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comkingdom of <ST1:PGodhead</st1:place>, the Vaikuëöhas. Pure devotees engage one hundred percent in glorifying the Supreme Lord, who is the Lord of the demigods and the controller of all living entities.

Bg 2.52P . . . The Vedic rites and rituals are imperative for neophytes: comprehending all kinds of prayer three times a day, taking a bath early in the morning, offering respects to the forefathers, etc.

But when one is fully in Kåñëa consciousness and is engaged in His transcendental loving service, one becomes indifferent to all these regulative principles because he has already attained perfection.

If one can reach the platform of understanding by service to the Supreme Lord Kåñëa, he has no longer to execute different types of penances and sacrifices as recommended in revealed scriptures.

And, similarly, if one has not understood that the purpose of the Vedas is to reach Kåñëa and simply engages in the rituals, etc., then he is uselessly wasting time in such engagements. Persons in Kåñëa consciousness transcend the limit of çabda-brahma, or the range of the Vedas and Upaniñads.

Bg 2.46 P . . . Çrémad-Bhägavatam (3.33.7) as follows:

 

 

 

aho bata çva-paco ’to garéyän

 

yaj-jihvägre vartate näma tubhyam

tepus tapas te juhuvuù sasnur äryä

brahmänücur näma gåëanti ye te

 

 

 

“O my Lord, a person who is chanting Your holy name, although born of a low family like that of a caëòäla [dog-eater], is situated on the highest platform of self-realization.

Such a person must have performed all kinds of penances and sacrifices according to Vedic rituals and studied the Vedic literatures many, many times after taking his bath in all the holy places of pilgrimage. Such a person is considered to be the best of the Äryan family.

So one must be intelligent enough to understand the purpose of the Vedas, without being attached to the rituals only, and must not desire to be elevated to the heavenly kingdoms for a better quality of sense gratification.

It is not possible for the common man in this age to follow all the rules and regulations of the Vedic rituals, nor is it possible to study all of the Vedänta and the Upaniñads thoroughly.

It requires much time, energy, knowledge and resources to execute the purposes of the Vedas. This is hardly possible in this age. The best purpose of Vedic culture is served, however, by chanting the holy name of the Lord, as recommended by Lord Caitanya, the deliverer of all fallen souls.

When Lord Caitanya was asked by a great Vedic scholar, Prakäçänanda Sarasvaté, why He, the Lord, was chanting the holy name of the Lord like a sentimentalist instead of studying Vedänta philosophy, the Lord replied that His spiritual master had found Him to be a great fool and thus asked Him to chant the holy name of Lord Kåñëa. He did so, and became ecstatic like a madman.

In this Age of Kali, most of the population is foolish and not adequately educated to understand Vedänta philosophy; the best purpose of Vedänta philosophy is served by inoffensively chanting the holy name of the Lord.

Vedänta is the last word in Vedic wisdom, and the author and knower of the Vedänta philosophy is Lord Kåñëa; and the highest Vedäntist is the great soul who takes pleasure in chanting the holy name of the Lord. That is the ultimate purpose of all Vedic mysticism.

[Shivaduta]

 

Username: Milly 'When I chant Hare Krishna, I keep thinking of Siva. Anything wrong with this?'

 

Nothing wrong with what u are doing ... in fact you have unknowingly hit upon a rule encased within a little known part of an episode.

 

In the story of sati being insulted and consequently immolating herself in the yagna made by her father daksha and shiva later destroying the sacrifice. There is a episode of curses and countercurses to shiva's and vishnu's followers.

 

when the peace was finally made the rishis agreed that only those who prayed to both shiva and vishnu would find emancipation.

 

vishnu avtaars have been known to pray to shiva (and so have enlightened shiv bhakts been known to worship vishnu)... parshuram was shiva's shishya. ram establishes the shivalinga at rameshwaram. Arjuna under krishna's guidance sought the pashupaat astra from mahadev before getting all divine weapons from the gods.

 

The legends may have their basis in the fact that one cannot pray to one aspect of the force while running down the other aspect... and yet expect to gain that which they seek.

true knowledge and emancipation means praying to every aspect of the supreme divine power.

 

so continue with what is happenign naturally as u pray. everything will fall in place.

[Shivaduta]

 

I didn't know garba dance had anything to do with Siva.

 

The raas and garba are often confused as one because of the circular pattern of the dancing perimeter as also the period when the event is organised.

 

krishna was the master of raas leela generally done with dandias.

 

garba is a form of dance done by female members of the gujarati community with the clapping of hands alone wherein the mother goddess AMBA is invoked for happiness and progeny. garbo as it is colloquially called is a by product of the sanskrit word garbha or womb. there is a ghatastapana where the mother goddess is invoked and every night a different aspect of the goddess is invoked. the moment devi is invoked shiva isnt far away

the period of the garbo is the navratri the nine nights for worshipping the mother goddess.

 

nowadays generally the two dances are mixed as "raas garba" or even "disco raas garba"

[Milly]

 

The raas and garba are often confused as one because of the circular pattern of the dancing perimeter as also the period when the event is organised.

 

krishna was the master of raas leela generally done with dandias.

 

garba is a form of dance done by female members of the gujarati community with the clapping of hands alone wherein the mother goddess AMBA is invoked for happiness and progeny. garbo as it is colloquially called is a by product of the sanskrit word garbha or womb. there is a ghatastapana where the mother goddess is invoked and every night a different aspect of the goddess is invoked. the moment devi is invoked shiva isnt far away

the period of the garbo is the navratri the nine nights for worshipping the mother goddess.

 

nowadays generally the two dances are mixed as "raas garba" or even "disco raas garba"

In that case it wasn't dandia because I didn’t see any men. All I saw were females in their dresses twirling and whirling in a circular formation. I thought for a long time that maybe it was shadows of the leaves outside. But at the time I was convinced it was what it was. I saw it for two days straight and then the next night when I looked it wasn't there.

[bgita67]

Milly

 

Namaste

 

Apparently I had the same experience that you did concerning Shiva and the Hare Krishna mantra. Last month (or the month before) I was chanting the mantra on a mala and when my eyes were closed I kept having clear images come to my mind of Shiva. This happened on other days too.

 

A similiar experience occured one night while doing japa of the name Rama. It was going on for a while and when my eyes were closed I saw a clear image of the Buddha's head twice.

 

I wonder if anyone else sees Shiva when they chant Hari's names!

[Shivaduta]

 

I saw it for two days straight and then the next night when I looked it wasn't there.

 

 

 

vivid dreams and visions are generally a way of your inner consciousness trying to tell you something.

 

if you look and at the time, place and circumstances under which u had the vision you will know why u had the vision...

 

sometimes the vision of a garba implies a new brother, sister or child being added to the family. like a vision of tandava is a portent of imminent destruction

 

only you will have to look deep within keeping your self and ego aside... look within and you will know.

[Milly]

 

Milly

 

Namaste

 

Apparently I had the same experience that you did concerning Shiva and the Hare Krishna mantra. Last month (or the month before) I was chanting the mantra on a mala and when my eyes were closed I kept having clear images come to my mind of Shiva. This happened on other days too.

 

A similiar experience occured one night while doing japa of the name Rama. It was going on for a while and when my eyes were closed I saw a clear image of the Buddha's head twice.

 

I wonder if anyone else sees Shiva when they chant Hari's names!

 

You are lucky to have seen clear visions of him . For me it was my mind which kept getting diverted to him. So for now now I'll continue with both mantras. I'm not really sure where I'm going right now.

 

 

vivid dreams and visions are generally a way of your inner consciousness trying to tell you something.

 

if you look and at the time, place and circumstances under which u had the vision you will know why u had the vision...

 

sometimes the vision of a garba implies a new brother, sister or child being added to the family. like a vision of tandava is a portent of imminent destruction

 

only you will have to look deep within keeping your self and ego aside... look within and you will know.

 

It was so long ago that I cannot remember. But the thing you said about a new addition to the family, well it may have been the case. But I can't really remember exactly how old I was when I had the vision.

[suchandra]

 

Well I am trying out different Mantras right now. When I chant Hare Krishna (I have been doing it in the last three days), all my focus keeps going to Siva. Is there anything wrong with this? I can't help it.

 

And sorry if I'm getting on your nerves by asking so many questions

I would say if this is your spontaneous mood this is very nice, Lord Siva, who is neither avatara nor avesa nor in between them, possesses almost eighty-four percent of the attributes of Lord Krsna.

 

ksiram yatha dadhi vikara-visesa-yogat

sanjayate na tu tatah prthag asti hetoh

yah sambhutam api tatha samupaiti karyad

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

 

"‘Milk changes into yogurt when mixed with a yogurt culture, but actually it is constitutionally nothing but milk. Similarly, Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, assumes the form of Lord Siva [sambhu] for the special purpose of material transactions. I offer my obeisances at His lotus feet.’

 

What has to be understood is vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh: Lord Siva is the best of all devotees. Therefore all devotees of Lord Krsna are also devotees of Lord Siva. In Vrndavana there is Lord Siva's temple called Gopisvara. The gopis used to worship not only Lord Siva but Katyayani, or Durga, as well, but their aim was to attain the favor of Lord Krsna. A devotee of Lord Krsna does not disrespect Lord Siva, but worships Lord Siva as the most exalted devotee of Lord Krsna. Consequently whenever a devotee worships Lord Siva, he prays to Lord Siva to achieve the favor of Krsna, and he does not request material profit. In Bhagavad-gita (7.20) it is said that generally people worship demigods for some material profit. Kamais tais tair hrta jnanah. Driven by material lust, they worship demigods, but a devotee never does so, for he is never driven by material lust. That is the difference between a devotee's respect for Lord Siva and a non-Vaishnava's respect for Lord Siva.

The non-Vaishnava worships Lord Siva, takes some benediction from him and becomes more and more materially attached. This attitude is rejected by the Vaishnavas. Because Lord Siva is a great devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he loves all the devotees of the Supreme Lord. Lord Siva told the Pracetas that because they were devotees of the Lord, he loved them very much. Lord Siva was not kind and merciful only to the Pracetas; anyone who is a devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is very dear to Lord Siva.

[Milly]

 

What has to be understood is vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh: Lord Siva is the best of all devotees. Therefore all devotees of Lord Krsna are also devotees of Lord Siva. In Vrndavana there is Lord Siva's temple called Gopisvara. The gopis used to worship not only Lord Siva but Katyayani, or Durga, as well, but their aim was to attain the favor of Lord Krsna. A devotee of Lord Krsna does not disrespect Lord Siva, but worships Lord Siva as the most exalted devotee of Lord Krsna. Consequently whenever a devotee worships Lord Siva, he prays to Lord Siva to achieve the favor of Krsna, and he does not request material profit. In Bhagavad-gita (7.20) it is said that generally people worship demigods for some material profit. Kamais tais tair hrta jnanah. Driven by material lust, they worship demigods, but a devotee never does so, for he is never driven by material lust. That is the difference between a devotee's respect for Lord Siva and a non-Vaishnava's respect for Lord Siva.

 

I did not meditate on them for material benefit but for mental peace. I cannot decide which mantra to settle on so I am wondering if I can chant both. Is this possible? I heard that one must settle on one mantra.

[suchandra]

 

I did not meditate on them for material benefit but for mental peace. I cannot decide which mantra to settle on so I am wondering if I can chant both. Is this possible? I heard that one must settle on one mantra.

 

It seems that the yuga-avatar, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, says, one hasn't necessarily settle on one mantra, He rather says, "no hard and fast rules for chanting the Holy Names".

 

Text 2

namnam akari bahudha nija-sarva-shaktis

tatrarpita niyamitah smarane na kalah

etadrishi tava kripa bhagavan mamapi

durdaivam idrisham ihajani nanuragaha

 

(Sri Siksastakam)

 

O my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds and millions of names like Krishna and Govinda. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness You enable us to easily approach You by Your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them.

[PureIndian]

 

Lol, maybe . I saw a lady get possessed by mataji when I was at a goini (you know the thing where 9 young girls are called for puja) and yes it was frightening. I thought something else awful was happening to her.

 

Hi, please do not used the word "possessed", its as if it implies that mataji is a devil, which she is clearly not, instead of this word, use "manifested", as mataji manifests into people.

[bgita67]

 

I would say if this is your spontaneous mood this is very nice, Lord Siva, who is neither avatara nor avesa nor in between them, possesses almost eighty-four percent of the attributes of Lord Krsna.

 

ksiram yatha dadhi vikara-visesa-yogat

sanjayate na tu tatah prthag asti hetoh

yah sambhutam api tatha samupaiti karyad

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

 

"‘Milk changes into yogurt when mixed with a yogurt culture, but actually it is constitutionally nothing but milk. Similarly, Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, assumes the form of Lord Siva [sambhu] for the special purpose of material transactions. I offer my obeisances at His lotus feet.’

 

What has to be understood is vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh: Lord Siva is the best of all devotees. Therefore all devotees of Lord Krsna are also devotees of Lord Siva. In Vrndavana there is Lord Siva's temple called Gopisvara. The gopis used to worship not only Lord Siva but Katyayani, or Durga, as well, but their aim was to attain the favor of Lord Krsna. A devotee of Lord Krsna does not disrespect Lord Siva, but worships Lord Siva as the most exalted devotee of Lord Krsna. Consequently whenever a devotee worships Lord Siva, he prays to Lord Siva to achieve the favor of Krsna, and he does not request material profit. In Bhagavad-gita (7.20) it is said that generally people worship demigods for some material profit. Kamais tais tair hrta jnanah. Driven by material lust, they worship demigods, but a devotee never does so, for he is never driven by material lust. That is the difference between a devotee's respect for Lord Siva and a non-Vaishnava's respect for Lord Siva.

The non-Vaishnava worships Lord Siva, takes some benediction from him and becomes more and more materially attached. This attitude is rejected by the Vaishnavas. Because Lord Siva is a great devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he loves all the devotees of the Supreme Lord. Lord Siva told the Pracetas that because they were devotees of the Lord, he loved them very much. Lord Siva was not kind and merciful only to the Pracetas; anyone who is a devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is very dear to Lord Siva.

 

Suchandra

 

Namaste

 

What text is that passage from that you quoted in Sanskrit?

 

It makes absolutely no sense to me that Shiva's special purpose has to do only with material transations rather than anything else. You say that a non-Vaishnava who worships Shiva becomes more and more materially attached. Ask a Shaiva if Shiva has made him/her less attached over time. Shiva has the appearance of an ascetic (someone who is not attached). With his third eye he disintegrated Kama (sensuality, pleasure) which happens to represent our most primal desire. I'm not seeing this "Shiva makes us attached" idea and I'm not buying it.

 

One of Shiva's 108 names is Aumkara. This means that he is the form of Aum. That means he is Brahman. Another one of his 108 names is Sanatana (Eternal) and this is also one of Krishna's 108 names.

 

Take a look at what's in the Shwetashwatara Upanishad about Shiva:

 

Passage 4:15 says that we are all one in Shiva. Passage 4:16 says that Shiva is the Supreme One, hidden in the hearts of all, encompassing the universe, and frees us from bondage.

 

Please do not think that I believe Shiva is the supreme personality of godhead or anything like that. The Rigveda equates Agni with what we now call Brahman. The Ganapati Upanishad says that Ganesha is Creator, Preserver, Destroyer, Brahman, and Sat-Chit-Ananda. Also in the Rigveda it says that there is one true reality (ekam sat) and that the sages explain it in many ways. I believe that Brahman, as the Upanishads claim, is actually without form, names, and attributes. Just as the Self takes the shape of the body it is in, I believe that also Brahman takes on the name, form, pasttimes, significances, etc of the god or goddess that the individual perceives it as. They're all valid and all the same. None is superior to any other. Mythology should not be taken so seriously; it is here so that we can understand the more significant meanings of it and so that we can reflect on and thus love Brahman in any form we want to perceive it to be.

 

Touching dollar bills, kissing them, and desiring more and more of them will keep a person attached to wealth. But looking within your heart and filling your mind with Lord Shiva will help free you from attachment.

 

No disrespect for you as a devoted Vaishnava is intended at all.

 

I do naman-smaranam of Shiva's names and Krishna's names. It's all the same thing.

 

Om Shanti Shanti Shanti