Chanting In Front Of Tulasi

[suchandra]

 

Since there are lately many articles on japa workshops - chanting Hare Krsna mantra in front of Tulasi Devi. To take care of Tulasi Devi and to chant in front of Tulasi Devi seems the traditional system of Gaudiya Vaishnavas how to chant attentively - Tulasi Devi grabs your attention.

It is said that chanting in front of Tulasi plant magnifies the power of the mantra 1000 times. Srila Haridasa Thakura constructed a cottage in a solitary forest. There he planted a Tulasi, and in front of Tulasi Devi he would chant the holy name of the Lord 300,000 times daily. Since Srila Haridasa Thakura is by the way namacarya for this yuga, why not give it a try?

 

When Narada Muni made the hunter a disciple, so he dragged him to the riverside, Ganges, and gave him a Tulasi plant, that: “You sit down here and chant Hare Krsna mantra. And the Tulasi plant is here. You offer obeisances.”

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.8.40

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Māyāpura, October 20, 1974

 

Narada Muni gave them one Tulasi plant, and they sat down near the Tulasi plant, and he advised that “Go on chanting Hare Krsna mantra.”

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.9

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Nellore, January 7, 1976

 

For instance, we are worshiping this plant, Tulasi. We are not worshiping all plants, but because this Tulasi has a very intimate connection with Krsna, Visnu, we are therefore worshiping her.

 

Deciding for the Future

New York—July 4, 1972

 

Offering Tulasi leaves and Ganges water, He cried for the Lord s appearance. The Lord, being satisfied by His pure devotees, descends to satisfy them.

 

Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - Adi-lila - 3

 

Vivekananda said, “What is the use of pouring water in Tulasi? Better pour water in a eggplant saka. You’ll get some eggplant.” This is…. Vivekananda said. Eggplant is also a small tree, and Tulasi… So if somebody is pouring water on a Tulasi leaf for bhakti, he condemns him, “Why you are wasting time? Pour water on this eggplant. Tomorrow you’ll get two.” This is karmi. “God is fictitious. God’s service is another sentiment. Do something practical.”

 

Room Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

January 8, 1977, Bombay

[RadhaMukunda]

I have always hated Vivekananda, what an idiot. He was pretending to follow advaita vedanta, but Shri Shankaracharya respected the Shalagrama Vigraha, Swami Vivekananda is making fun of it. What a clown.

[sambya]

haribol radha mukunda. before you comment on anyone as illustrious as vivekananda, ask how much u actually know of him? if you are a western national then u know nothing,for knowledge cannot be gathered second hand through someone else(say prabhupada).it was vivekananda who saved hinduism from extinction.at a time when entire west thought of hindus as a savage,idol worshipping,uncivilized heathen with all sorts of witchcraft, widow burning ,snake charming etc,it was he who dared to cross across the ocean(for it was a hindu sacrilegeous act)and spread the first words of hindu supremacy and its glorious culture.thus the western perspective changed for the first time about indian religion and thought.it was upon this solid foundation that all the later yogis and swamis founded their hindu empire in west.apart from anything else why cant you give him this much credit?do you know the list of the people who followed his teachings?max mueller(the scholar for who resurrected the vedas.its fpr him dat you can buy and read a veda today,which would have been otherwise lost)romain rolland, aldous huxley,rabindranath tagore,mahatma gandhi,indian freedom fighter subhas chandra bose,first indian president radhakrishnan,cristopher isherwood,scopenhuer,first indian prime minister nehru,tolstoy,indira gandhi etc to name a few. its so sad that your guru prabhupad failed to see anything in him.as to the eggplant thing i say that one must understand the context ,time and place in which it was spoken.obviously you would agree that isolating one comment from the rest of the speech would completely change its meaning .he said that at a time when religious but blind hypocritical indians used to feed the crows to gather merit instead of giving a tiny morsel to the fellow dying indians ,at a time when millions used to die in india due to famine when government slept and wealthy landlords squandered away the wealth in lavish durga pujas,at a time when a every indian was made to feel that they are professing wrong faith and jesus is their saviour.my father has personally seen the condition of these religious fanatics.a train passenger was dying for water and another co passenger having a bottlte of pure ganga water refused to give him one drop lest he finishes of the bottle.this is india of 1950's.imagine then the period of 1880.to liberate the masses from this slumber and to envigorate them with new life he said such weird things.when india's starving for one bowl of rice,thes religious hypogrites are busy offering bhoga to tulsi and on reminding them to do some charity they say"oh! its in their karma to suffer.thats why vivekananda said such things. evrything happens as per almighty's wishes,right?then ever wondered why vivekananda and his institution is so sturdy even after 110 years of foundation,whereas your iskcon is riddled with holes and cracks in just 40 years, if not for gods will?

[RadhaMukunda]

First of all I am not an ISCKON follower. You are only assuming that. Second, learn to write in paragraphs. It's a torture to read through your mumblings.

 

You are only pointing out how ashamed you are of Indian culture. Everything has to measured through western standards for you. It's very common among "reformer" worshipers to exaggerate how much influence their cult leader had on cultural changes. Not only the RamaKrishna mission, but also the Arya Samaja cult makes these ungrounded claims.

 

The west and India had met, cultural change was inevitable. Cultural growth is nothing new to India and these so called reformers had nothing to do with it. Muslims and Hindus have been living in harmony for centuries in India. Only at the time these cultural reformers came, things really started to get bad. Swami Dayananda was notorious for setting up fights between Hindus and Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims, Vaishnavas and Shaivas. He had a good time doing that. Poor guy never got laid in his life.

 

Swami Vivekanda basically was just ashamed of Hinduism. I am not judging him for that. He was free to convert to another religion or turn into an atheist. But what he did, he brainwashed India into thinking that they were inferior. Oh yes, he might have used different words. Explicitely he might have said how great India and Hinduism is. But his message was for Indians to become ashamed of Idol worship, Tulsi worship, rituals for gods, reverence for cows. Why? Because, the westeners considered this primitive culture! Christians considered this Satanic black magic!

 

Now, if you like to pretent to be liked in western society, go ahead and respect these swamis. You might want to try out chakra medition or transedental meditation or whatever. It's popular nowadays and it isn't considered primitive like the worship of Tulsi Devi. I do not wish to read one word from you putting down those who worship with bhoga and tulasi. You are the hypocrite.

[bija]

 

max mueller(the scholar for who resurrected the vedas.its fpr him dat you can buy and read a veda today,which would have been otherwise lost)romain rolland, aldous huxley,rabindranath tagore,mahatma gandhi,indian freedom fighter subhas chandra bose,first indian president radhakrishnan,cristopher isherwood,scopenhuer,first indian prime minister nehru,tolstoy,indira gandhi etc to name a few. posted by sambya

That is a grand list of souls who have been touched.

 

Firstly I am an admirer of Iskcon (but not a functioning member). Iskcon is a wonderful contribution to the ongoing Vedic culture.

 

The diversity and complexity in this world is vast, and I agree with your point fully, that these saintly men may say things for a particular reason. Because their minds are seeing something bigger, a necessity, not seen by others. Their words are always open to reform by great thinkers to come after them.

 

In that regard I guess we are fortunate, that God, in manifold kindness...can re-instate Tulsi worship in a pure way. Srila Prabhupada contributed to this in the western world. I recall many years ago the devotion encountered in my first visit to a temple. The devotion to Tulsi was so pure at that temple, that I encountered a mystical experience, revealing such things I will never forget.

 

Only years later did I understand the meaning of Tulsi arati song, that Srila Prabhupada instituted. It is soft, it is gentle, it is beautiful...it is a wonderful contribution to this sometimes mad world of intolerance (division) and aggression. Just as Devi herself is soft and delicate.

 

We can see in scripture such as Srimad Bhagavatam, how all phenomenon is personalized. From the earth, the rivers, the mountains...even the all-devouring shadow Rahu!

 

As a westerner, the vedic culture has healed my soul. As a teen I recall feeling affection for books, written by Vivekananda, Yogananda...and eventually Srila Prabhupada (my eternal siksa guru). So it is evident to me that there is a progression of development involved for each of us. So it also is with the world and its unfoldment.

 

Thank you for your post I appreciate your perspectives.

 

Here is a beautiful poem from Rabindranatha Tagore for your pleasure. Taken from the intro to 'Vidyapati's Padyavali', translated by Ananda K. Coomaraswamy.

 

 

Not my way of salvation, to surrender the world!

Rather for me the taste of Infinite Freedom,

While yet I am bound by a thousand bonds to the wheel:

In each glory of sight and sound and smell

I shall find thy infinite joy abiding:

My passion shall burn as the flame of Salvation,

The flower of my love shall become the ripe fruit of Devotion.

[suchandra]

 

That is a grand list of souls who have been touched.

 

Firstly I am an admirer of Iskcon (but not a functioning member). Iskcon is a wonderful contribution to the ongoing Vedic culture.

 

The diversity and complexity in this world is vast, and I agree with your point fully, that these saintly men may say things for a particular reason. Because their minds are seeing something bigger, a necessity, not seen by others. Their words are always open to reform by great thinkers to come after them.

 

In that regard I guess we are fortunate, that God, in manifold kindness...can re-instate Tulsi worship in a pure way. Srila Prabhupada contributed to this in the western world. I recall many years ago the devotion encountered in my first visit to a temple. The devotion to Tulsi was so pure at that temple, that I encountered a mystical experience, revealing such things I will never forget.

 

Only years later did I understand the meaning of Tulsi arati song, that Srila Prabhupada instituted. It is soft, it is gentle, it is beautiful...it is a wonderful contribution to this sometimes mad world of intolerance (division) and aggression. Just as Devi herself is soft and delicate.

 

We can see in scripture such as Srimad Bhagavatam, how all phenomenon is personalized. From the earth, the rivers, the mountains...even the all-devouring shadow Rahu!

 

As a westerner, the vedic culture has healed my soul. As a teen I recall feeling affection for books, written by Vivekananda, Yogananda...and eventually Srila Prabhupada (my eternal siksa guru). So it is evident to me that there is a progression of development involved for each of us. So it also is with the world and its unfoldment.

 

Thank you for your post I appreciate your perspectives.

 

Here is a beautiful poem from Rabindranatha Tagore for your pleasure. Taken from the intro to 'Vidyapati's Padyavali', translated by Ananda K. Coomaraswamy.

 

Thanks Bija, Just read through an article at the American Chronicle and the author tries to highlight a similar point to see things in a holistic approach - everything has to be seen as a combined effort.

 

 

Swami Viveknanda introduced yoga to the west during the Parliament of Religions held in Chicago in 1893. Around 1920, Paramhansa Yogananda, author of ´Autobiography of a Yogi´, established his self-realization fellowship in Los Angeles. In the early 1930´s, J. Krishnamurthy and his expositions on jnana yoga became popular in the west. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, famed for his famous disciples, The Beatles, entered the picture in the 1960´s and introduced Transcendental Meditation. Around the same time another famous yoga guru, Swami Sivananda who is credited with modernizing yoga, opened ashrams in America and Europe. He propagated his modified Five Principles of Yoga that consisted of savasana or proper relaxation; asanas or proper exercise; pranayama or proper breathing; proper diet, and dhayana or positive thinking/meditation. He was blessed with some outstanding disciples. Disciples like Swami Satchinanda who initiated yoga chanting during Woodstock, Swami Sivananda Radha who investigated the relationship between psychology and yoga, and Yogi Bhajan who, in the 1970´s, introduced Kundalini Yoga. Another famous disciple, Swami Vishnudevananada wrote the book, ´Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga´. In 1965, Shrila Prabhupada founded the International Society of Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) in the US and popularized Bhakti Yoga (yoga of devotion). In the 1970´s, Osho Rajneesh became one of the most illustrious yoga gurus the world over. Sathya Sai Baba too is said to be one of the best-known living yoga gurus today. Another is of course, Swami Baba Ramdev, who is certainly the one most in the limelight at the moment.

 

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/74945

 

[ARJ]

 

But his message was for Indians to become ashamed of Idol worship, Tulsi worship, rituals for gods, reverence for cows. Why? Because, the westeners considered this primitive culture! Christians considered this Satanic black magic!

 

Swami Vivekananda on Polytheism, Pantheism & Idol Worship

 

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[bija]

Thx ARJ (enjoyed that), that is very helpful for understanding. Especially good advice to not offend others, we are all learning about ourselves and God. Timely reminder, thank you!

 

Here is something similar:

 

 

The Worship of Shri Murti

By Seventh Goswami Shrila Sacchidananda Bhaktivinoda Thakura

There are some who startle at the theory of worshiping Shrimurti “Oh”, they say, “it is idolatry to worship Shrimurti! Shrimurti is an idol framed by an artist and introduced by no other than Beelzebub himself. Worshiping such an object would rouse the jealousy of God and limit His omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence!”

 

We would tell them, “Brethren, candidly understand the question and do not allow yourself to be misled by sectarian dogmas. God is not jealous, as he is without a second. Beelzebub or Satan is no other than an object of imagination or the subject of an allegory. An allegorical or imaginary being should not be allowed to act as an obstacle to Bhakti. Those who believe God to

be impersonal, simply identify Him with some power or attribute in Nature, though in fact He is above Nature, her laws and rules. His holy wish is law and it will be sacrilege to confine His unlimited excellence by identifying Him with such attributes as omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience - attributes which may exist in created objects such as time and space, etc. His excellence consists in having in Him mutually contradicting powers and attributes ruled by His supernatural Self. He is identical with His all-beautiful person having such powers as omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence, the like of which cannot be found elsewhere. His holy and perfect person exists eternally in the spiritual world and is at the same time existing in every created object and place in all its fullness. This idea excels all other ideas of the Deity.

Mahaprabhu rejects idolatry as well, but considers Shrimurti worship to be the only unexceptional means of spiritual culture. It has been shown that God is personal and all-beautiful. Sages like Vyasa and others have seen that beauty in their soul’s eye. They have left us descriptions. Of course word carries grossness of matter. But Truth still is perceivable in those descriptions. According to those descriptions one delineates a Shrimurti and sees the great God of our heart there with intense pleasure! Brethren, is that wrong or sinful ? Those who say that God has no form either material or spiritual and again imagine a false form of worship are certainly idolatrous. But those who, seeing the spiritual form of the Deity in their soul’s eyes, carry that impression as far as possible to the mind and then frame an emblem for the satisfaction of the material eye all meant for continual study of the higher feeling, are by no means idolatrous. While seeing a Shrimurti do not even see the image itself but see the spiritual model of the image and you are a pure theist. Idolatry and Shrimurti worship are two different things, but my brethren, you simply confound one with the other out of hastiness. To tell you the truth, Shrimurti worship is the only true form of worship of the Deity, without which you cannot sufficiently cultivate your religious feelings. The world attracts you through your senses and as long as you do not see God in the objects of your senses, you live in an awkward position which scarcely helps you in securing your spiritual elevation. Place a Shrimurti in your house.

Think that God almighty is the guardian of the house, the food that you take is His prasad, and the flowers and scents

are also His prasad. The eye, the ear, the nose, the touch and the tongue all have a spiritual culture. You do it with a holy heart and God will know it and judge you by your sincerity. Satan and Beelzebub will have nothing to do with you in that matter! All sorts of worship are based on the principle of Shrimurti. Look into the history of religion and you will come to this noble truth. The Semitic idea of a patriarchal God both in the pre-Christian period of Judaism and the post-Christian period of Mohamedanism is nothing but a limited idea of Shrimurti. The monarchic idea of a Jove amongst the Greeks and of an lndra amongst the Aryan karmakandis is also a distinct view of the same principle. The idea of a force and Jyotirmaya brahma of the meditators and a formless energy of the shaktas is also a very faint view of the Shrimurti. In fact the principle of Shrimurti is the Truth itself differently exhibited in different people according to their different phases of thought. Even Jaimini and Comte who are not prepared to accept a creating God, have prescribed certain phases of the Shrimurti, simply because they have been impelled by some inward action from the soul! Then again we meet with people who have adopted the cross, the shaligram shila, the lingam and such like emblems as indicators of the inward ideas of Shrimurti. Furthermore, if the Divine compassion, love and justice could be portrayed by the pencil and expressed by the chisel, why should not the personal beauty of the Deity embracing all other attributes be portrayed in poetry or in picture expressed by the chisel for the benefit of man? If words could impress thoughts, the watch could indicate time and sign could tell us a history, why should not the picture or figure bring associations of higher thoughts and feelings with regard to the transcendental beauty of the divine Personage?

[Astro102]

Thanks

[sambya]

haribol radha mukunda!!! its true that two cultures interact and evolve when in touch with each other for long.but in that matter its ovibous that there must be some humans who contributed to this change(just like chaitanya mahaprabhu did with bengal).it simply cannot start auomatically. also your comment that hindus and muslims have been living in peace shows your ignorance of indian history.to assume that desruction of sommnath temple,aurangazebs policy,forcefull conversions on non payment of taxes,jizya tax,etc as being signs of harmony is ridicoulous.the fact is that as the ruling goverment was islamic in nature no one dared to voice a protest.dont you know how powerfull even an ordinary qazi was in those days?the later clashes arose not due to the reformers but the fanatical attitude of jinnah-the muslim league president. and who gave you this idea that he derogated idol worship,worship of cows etc just to appease western minds.?why would he then worship the durga idol in belur?or even install a ramkrishna statue?why would belur math run a huge goshala??the slight alterations that he did bring in the fold of hinduism was to fit it with changing times.whenever he condemmed something it was a later period unothourised custom, not a originalvedic concept. one must read through the teachings before criticising him.how much and exactly what books have you read about vivekananda?? most indians accept his teachings,whereas most westeners adapted to vaishnav thought dont.why is that?obviously hindus themeselves cannot be so mislead about heir own faith that they can be brainwashed so easily?or is the western vishnavs being brainwashed and mislead if you dont follow someone its fine.all you need is to have unflinching faith in your path.but why 'hate' others?why can u be silent on such issues??

[RadhaMukunda]

Why can't you write in simple paragraphs? I know about the wars and fights between Muslims and Hindus, destructions of temples, burning of libraries, murders etc. But there were also Muslims and Hindus who were peaceful together, even before mahatma gandhi. My story was on the Swami Dayananda from the Arya Samaja, the so called savior of Indian culture. He used to spread hate between Sikhs and Hindus in Punjab.

 

I do not deny that some people had effect on change in society. What I was saying is that the effect Vivekananda had on positive cultural changes is exaggerated. His words may sound beautiful and inspiring. That only swept away a lot of people. But I am very critical of his teachings. All right, he does worship Durga. But he doesn't believe in Durga. It's just a mental image to him. He even doesn't recognize the sacred Shalagrama stones which Sri Adi Shankaracharya identified as Vishnu himself in his Brahma Sutra Bhasya. On top of that, in his flowerly words, he advices India to stop worshiping all the devis and devatas that India is rich, to leave them alone and even forget about them. Instead to start worshiping Mother India. Indians, I'll tell you this, are overly proud of their nation. No nation in the world is so full of itself. No, not even the Americans of the United States.

 

You ask me to keep silent. I would like to ask you not to offend the holy Godess Tulsi Devi or the rituals involving worship with bhoga and the leaves of Tulsi Mata. I have already told you that I am not some western ISCKONite follower. Still you keep assuming. I should not have said I hate Vivekananda. I disagree with him and dislike him for being such a snob.

[bija]

 

obviously hindus themeselves cannot be so mislead about heir own faith that they can be brainwashed so easily?or is the western vishnavs being brainwashed and mislead by sambhya

 

You keep assuming I am some western ISCKONite which I had already denied. by RadhaMukunda

If you look at RadhaMukunda prabhu's posts on this forum you will see that he is not a supporter of Iskcon (or so called western vaisnavism). What is really tiring is the slur against western vaisnavas. Sambhya, not all western born followers of Sri Caitanya are quick to criticize. We do have intelligence, and can see points you are bringing out in regards to the bigger picture of things. We also have staunch faith in Srila Prabhupada (which is no flaw).

 

What do you call being mislead? Offering bhoga, taking prasadam, jaap and kirtan...offering respects to others. Theses things are surely not an inferior brainwashed spirituality. Any discrepancy in behaviour is just a lingering past habit of a previous way.

 

y.s.

[sambya]

Even i recognize srila prabhupad's contribution towards popularising hinduism.But what i dislike is this persistent derogation of other paths,advaitabad,other dieties etc. And in fact i have full reveration for tulsi devi and salagrams,lord has given me the oppurtunity to serve him as 12 salagrams in my home.I sincerely belive the usefulness of bhakti and that it is the easiest path to self realization.

 

Im not against the westeners or something and appericiate bija's standpoint on beliving in ones own guru,and also respecting others.

Its really good to see so many western idividuals striving so hard in spiritual path.In fact one of the highest devotees that i have seen is a westerner.I cant simply forget his premashru's(ecststic tears) while glorifying prabhupad.

 

Offering bhoga etc are not inferior spirituality by any chance.but fault finding with others beliefs and ways surely is.before condemming other paths one should tread it and fail to reach the truth in attempt.otherwise without even venturing into that other path how can a person call it wrong.did he travel through it and find no result?

 

My point in saying 'mislead' is not that their path is wrong.A way shown by mahaprabhu can naver be wrong.But as to moulding their veiws on Vivekananda,Sanracharya,Ramkrishna,Aurobindo,Gandhi etc,they surely are.

[sambya]

EXTENSION TO MY PREVIOUS POST:Question may arise as to why then chaitanya mahabrabhu criticise advaita? I believe that no avatar ever condemms any original vedic ritual.What they attempt at doing is to remove the prevailing adharma and misconceptions. When he descended the condition of India(specially Bengal) was very bad . Most of the common folks had no conception of dharma or religion, and the pundits and brahmins busied themselves in endless arguments,scriptural debates and supressing the common folk.They totally forgot that shastras are for realizing god,not for debates and dry mental speculation.Most of these pundits adhered to advaitic faith,without any realizations.

 

In advaita one is not suppossed to say aham brahmasmi(im brahman) untill reaching the perfectional state. For as long as u are on the dualistic or dvaita plain you are never brahman.but those pundits led a perfectlly material life and when challenged,said "its not we who are doing it,its brahman".this was the condition of advaita in those days.

 

In order to eradicate the deep rooted ills that have penetrated into the society through advaita it was obviously essential tocondem it.

[RadhaMukunda]

Every discussion on this forum seems to go towards Advaita vs Gaudiya Vaishnavism. I am glad to hear you also have the honors to take care of tulasi devi. Tulasi is worshiped by all Hindus, not only in ISCKON. We should be proud of the presence of Tulasi and should never consider it primitive to worship this specific plant.

 

There are practices in Hinduism/ Buddhism that are adored by westerners, like yoga and meditation. Other practices are frowned upon and considered primitive. Like the worship of Idols, cows and Tulasi Devi. Let us be firm in our believe and not ashamed of our religion. Unlike the ass kissing neo vedantins and new ageists who basically follow everything that has become popular in western society.

[sambya]

namaste radha mukunda,

 

i do not disrespect tulsi.i believe that even materiallists should not disrespect tulsi owing to its medicinal properties.i have 15 tusi devi's in my home for salagram archan,and this year i toured muktinath(to see the abode of salagrams).

 

and its perfectly true that indians are overtly proud of their nation.and why shouldnt they?its the oldest surviviung culture in the world which survived every possible attacks(greeks ,macedonians,buddisht revolution,tartars,persian raids,muslim autocracy,christian missionaries,portugese colonisation,dutch attacks,french imperialism,british raj etc etc) and still survives unscathed.there's no denying that indian thought is most near to perfection than other thought systems,its religion most mystical and wide than any other.

 

its obvious that indians are more proud of their culture with 6000 years of heritage than americans with only 500 years of heritage. im not derogating america but justifying our pride in our heritage.

 

and there was certain definite reason so as to why vivekananda promoted nationalism along with spirituallity.one must remember that the period in which he was born there was hardly any self respect left in any indians mind.600 years of muslim domination and ongoing british missions completely degenerated them. few handfull indians who got western education became so inclined towards western thought that they broke away from hinduism.brahmo movement etc are all proof of this.

 

in a time when indians were third class citizens in their own land and could not rise above a clerical post in public service (inspite of having required degrees) one cannot expect them to love their culture.they totally lost faith in themselves,to top it all numerous sects and samprdayas had split up hinduism and all of them were busy ascertaining thier own beliefs and were fighting among themselves.meanwhile the missionaries took advantage of the situation and began their conversion process by thousands(specially in south).

 

is it possible for such a dying race to take pride in themselves or even feel that their religion is true?obviously no!! and without being convinced of ones religion can anybody pursue it?

 

at this crucial juncture vivekanda wanted to show the spiritual supremacy of indians.but the greatest obstacle in that path was the incredibly low self esteem of the indians themselves.that is precisely why vivekananda started an agressive nationalistic and spiritual campaign.without a minimum moral upliftment no race can believe in themselves,which is the first step in spirituality.vivekananda and his teachings have to be analyzed from a 19th century perspective.

 

without him where would hinduism and india stand today?western people would still think them to be half tribal fakirs with opulent maharajas,snake charmers,tigers,elephants,lost temples and terrible gods.india coould have never attained political freedom(almost all nationaists derived their inspiration from him).hinduism would have collapsed under the intellectual brahmo and suchlike movements(remember almost all educated and intellectual heads joined such movements) and state sponsored christian missionary activities.hindus would have been reduced to the status of primitive nature worshipping race.

[Amlesh]

& the one to blame about the present condition of India is Indians only.

Indians forgot their rudimentary principles... if they could just restore back just 50% of their lost treasure; then no country in this world can stand side by side with the Eternal Country.

 

America is actually considered as the Universal Home for Justice... but I don't find it much effective.

 

If we get back the ancient India and that India will definitely become that center for Justice...

 

The effect of it would be really beautiful.

 

Sounds like a Utopian Dream...

[sambya]

proper hinduism does not have anything that can be termed as primitive.it may appear as primitive to a few overly rationalistic people,but it does have a far greater underlying truth to it.even the catholics kiss their crosses and kneal in front of mary,only they are afraid to admit it.we hindus are not hypocrites and admit our idolatry.in fact it is not idolatry at all. hinduism is a vast religion having enough space for everyones beliefs.it has within its fold all kinds of worship-worship with form.formless woship,theist philosophies,agnostic doctrines.no religion ever provides such a varied option of faith.this is not a negative point of hinduism, its a positive virtue.it understands that no two persons can worship the same god.everyones conceptions about god vary according to their natures.

[janardana1234]

Nomenclature of Shaligram Silas

Hare Krishna ,

My Friends , I returned from my trip to India recently . What a trip it was at the feet of my Lord at Mathura in Vrindavan ! This time had chance to Pick up Sacred Shaligram Silas from Haridwar . Then to identify them I was glancing through information on web . I discovered various shocking facts . There are now couple of websites selling these Silas at sky rocketing prices . But is more surprising is that there is absolutely no limit as to how these suppliers have stretched imagination to the naming the Lord . There are Shaligrams called the names below which is incorrect naming seemingly to give them a big names attributing several properties and thus to charge high amounts

Sacred Adwaitya Shweta Netradhari Laxmi Vishvaksena Maha Ganesha

Sacred Adwaitya Shweta Laxmi hayagriva Kalki Maha Vishnu

Sacred Adwaitya Shweta Shashidhara Chandramauli Kalp Laxmi Vishvaksena Ganesha

Sarvottam Golden Laxmi Shesha Golden Kamal Chaturbhuj Chakradhari Maha Vishnu

Sarvottam Jenyudhari Shweta Hayagriva Varaha Dev

Adwaitya Golden Kamal Chaturbhuj Chakradhari Mahavishnu Kalki Mahadev

Sacred double Golden Kamal Santan Gopal Matsya Chaturbhuj Chakradhari Bhur Bhuvas

. According to the Prapanchasaara (quoted in Praanatoshanitantra page 373.) Lord Vishnu has his fifty different form each of which may be worsipped in a Shalagram Stone. His forms are given below: Keshav , Narayana, Maahava, Govinda, Madhusudana, Trivikrama, Vamana, Shridhar, Hrishikesha, Padmanabha, Damodara, Vaasudeva, Sankarshana, Pradyumna, Aniruddha ,Chakrin, Gadin, Sharngin, khadgin, Shankin, Halin, Musalin, Soolin, Paashin, Ankushin, Mukunda, Nandaja, Nandin, Nara, Narakajit, Hari, Krishna, Satya, Saatvata, Shauri, Shuri, Janaradana, Bhudhaarin, Vishvamurthi, Vaikuntha, Purushottama, Balin, Balaanuja, Bala, Vrishagnha, Vrisha, Hamsa, Varaha, Vimala, Nrisimha.

We learn from different puranas that in former days Shalagrams were divided into 24 varieties, their names according to the Skandapurana being as follows: Keshava, Madhusudana, Shankarshan , Daamodara, Vaasudeva, Pradyumna, Vishnu, Maadhava, Ananta, Purushottama, Adhokshaja, Janaardan , Govinda, Trivikrama, Shridhar, Hrishikesha, Nrisimha, Vishvayoni, Vaamana, Naaraayana, Pundarikaaksh, Upendra, Hari, Krishna. (Skanda Purana, Nagarckhanda, 244. 3-9)

In the Brahmavaivarattapurana (Prakrtikhanda, chapter21.) we get the following description of the different varieties of Shaligrams:

1) Lakshminarayana : In colour he resembles a new cloud and has a single opening marked with four circular prints. A linear mark resembling a vanamala (a particular kind of garland held by Lord Vishnu, or series of forests) is also printed on his body.

2) Lakshmijanaardan: The above type without the mark of vanamala.

3) Raghunatha: He has two openings with any mark of vanamala. his body also is marked with the footprint of a cow, but not with any mark of vanamala.

4) Dadhivamana: Very small in size with two circular marks, and having the colour of a new cloud.

5) Shridhar : The above type with an additional mark of vanamala.

6) Daamodara : Big in size with a round shape and two circular marks, but not having the mark of vanamala.

7) Ranarama : round and middle in shape with prints of arrows all over hid body. He must have two circular marks and prints of a quiver with arrows on his body.

8) Rajarajeshwara : Middle in size, having seven circular marks and also the marks of an umbrella and grass (or quiver) on his body.

9) Ananta : Big in size with the colour of a new cloud and having 14 circular marks on his body.

10) Madhusudhan : Round in shape, middle in size and charming to look at. He has two circular marks and a footprint of a cow on his body.

11) Sudarshan : With single circular mark.

12) Gadadhara: With a hidden circular mark.

13) Hayagriva : with two circular marks and having the shape of the face of a horse.

14) Narsimha : having a large opening with two circular marks, and glittering to look at.

15) Laxminarsimha : Having a big opening with two circular marks, and also marked with a vanamala.

16) Vaasudeva : Evenly shaped and charming to look at, having two circular marks at the front of his opening.

17) Pradyumna : with the colour of a new cloud, and having a small circular mark and several small holes on his body.

18) Shankarshan : He has two circular marks joined with each other on the top side o his body.

19) Aniriddha: Round in shape, glaced and charming to look at, and having the yellowish or black colour.

 

There are more forms of Lord including the Dasavatara form in the other texts , which I cannot mention due to space constraint and you may read in salagram.net . However these commercial websites are using their own nomenclature which is quite against the information in these scriptures . Now Bhur Bhuvas Gayatri cannot be a form of the Lord .. Similarly Sacred Adwaitya Shweta Netradhari Laxmi Vishvaksena Maha Ganesha , or Sacred Adwaitya Shweta Laxmi hayagriva Kalki Maha Vishnu, or Sacred Adwaitya Shweta Shashidhara Chandramauli Kalp Laxmi Vishvaksena Ganesha or Sacred double Golden Kamal Santan Gopal Matsya Chaturbhuj Chakradhari Bhur Bhuvas cannot be one single form of a Sila . The buyers need to Wake up and not trust the words of the suppliers blindly . Also there is absolutely no relation with the description of the Shaligram Sila as noted in the Scriptures with what these suppliers are selling . For eg:- please see the description of Silas above and match with the pictures they are selling . Sila Ananta needs to be “Big in size with the colour of a new cloud and having 14 circular marks on his body, “ , Pradyumna : with the colour of a new cloud, and having a small circular mark and several small holes on his body, Daamodara : Big in size with a round shape and two circular marks, but not having the mark of vanamala. The Silas are identified by these suppliers in any random way , befooling the people . So dear Friends , wake up . Do not merely read the website words and follow blindly . Do not pay such sky rocketing prices . You cannot “Buy” the Lord . Worship the Lord with Sheer devotion and pure love . He is everywhere . Take any Shaligram Sila and see Him in that . He is formless , the absolute .

[stonehearted]

It seems a shame that Suchandra started such a nice thread for discussing the glories of Tulasi-devi, but it has, as often happens, veered off course rather quickly.