is preaching good?

[sambya]

i feel that the idea of preaching is actually a idea of hatred.for you cannot 'preach' unless you hate all other paths and convince yourself that yours is the only path.one should sing praises of his lord or glorify him,but why 'preaching'?? isn't it very similar to those colonial christian missionaries who came to india to deliver the infidels?isnt it all about showing absolute disrespect about all other beliefs?one should expose his beliefs before everyone,so that anyone interested might follow,but why impose it??

[primate]

I think there’s a profound difference between preaching intended to convert, and teaching intended to share idea’s and collectively learn.

[kaisersose]

 

I think there’s a profound difference between preaching intended to convert, and teaching intended to share idea’s and collectively learn.

 

Hmm...do you know any preacher, who went out to preach with the possiblity in his open mind that he may encounter a belief that may convert himself? I have not seen any. Preacher are sure of their own beliefs and are doubly sure there is nothing out there that can replace their current affiliation. In fact, that smugness, is the primary motivating factor.

 

How does this align with your "intending to share ideas" and "collectively learn"? Christian preachers are sure people who do not change over to their view are hellbound. Hare Krishnas think and believe that they found the holy grail in iskcon and everyone else is a second class citizen for not changing over to their view. Since I have not found over-zealous preachers in other beliefs, I do not have a third example.

 

In short, the whole concept of preaching is to convert the other to my own point of view. Otherwise, there is absolutely no reason to preach at all.

 

Cheers

[bija]

 

I think there’s a profound difference between preaching intended to convert, and teaching intended to share idea’s and collectively learn. by primate

I think that is a good point. In a higher state of realization one can see Guru has many forms.

 

On a gross level we may only see conflicting words, as kaisersose is pointing out. Which shows neophyte mentality, which causes so much conflict in the name of religion. But, if we can see Guru correctly, we will look inward, and see treasure coming from many places (to help us grow internally)...most definately that teaching may come from the enlightened of other religions. Or even from the non-religious, nature etc. If others had not shared their views, convictions, and beliefs we would never have learned as a collective organism. This ongoing sharing seems to be creating a highly developed organism, but as always nature has its virus (for the human collective that may be ignorance).

 

 

one should sing praises of his lord or glorify him,but why 'preaching'?? by sambhya

Yes indeed, the glorification is the key. As primate has pointed out, if that glorification can be combined with an upliftment of the environment and conscious evolvement of man's thinking, it is good.

 

Throughout history, preachers who have forced their dogma, and made atrocity...have a mixed religion. Economic gain etc etc. These mixed religions agenda for power, is far from the truth of transcedental love and enlightenment. And yes kaisersose, some in vaisnava tradition have made great mistakes in their dealings with others (through ulterior motive and ignorance).

[ARJ]

 

I think there’s a profound difference between preaching intended to convert, and teaching intended to share idea’s and collectively learn.

Buddha preached with the intent to convert.

 

Do you know why there's only one Hindu nation in the entire world ?

[sambya]

There is only one hindu nation because hindus never undertook to preach or convert.The first missionary activities started with budhism,which spread even to alexandria and china.

 

Hindus always belived that spirituality is for a chosen few(truth seekers) while commoners were advised to follow dharma and merit gaining rituals(punya karma).They also had this broad universal outlook which made them realise that all paths ,if properly adhered to, is essentially true.That is why hindus accepted budda as god,even though he criticised vedas,wheras jews killed jesus just because he said something new!!That is why the original persians(zorastrianism by faith)found home only in india.Its due to same cause that the tormented jews were left untouched in this country .Even now,in modern times india has shown its broadness by accepting tibetan buddhists in their soceity.

 

It is indeed a miracle that the hindus have survived such various onslaughts without a preaching mechanism.

 

It is testimony to the truth that they are indeed lords chosen ones.

[RamanaDasi]

 

Christian preachers are sure people who do not change over to their view are hellbound. Hare Krishnas think and believe that they found the holy grail in iskcon and everyone else is a second class citizen for not changing over to their view. Since I have not found over-zealous preachers in other beliefs, I do not have a third example.

 

You are very funny. Well said!

 

You did forget Islam, by the way.

 

Islamic fundamentalism (Quran), Christian fundamentalism (Testaments), Iskcon fundamentalism (Prabhupada's books).

 

There are these three groups of zealot preachers.

[RamanaDasi]

 

There is only one hindu nation because hindus never undertook to preach or convert.The first missionary activities started with budhism,which spread even to alexandria and china.

 

Hindus always belived that spirituality is for a chosen few(truth seekers) while commoners were advised to follow dharma and merit gaining rituals(punya karma).They also had this broad universal outlook which made them realise that all paths ,if properly adhered to, is essentially true.That is why hindus accepted budda as god,even though he criticised vedas,wheras jews killed jesus just because he said something new!!That is why the original persians(zorastrianism by faith)found home only in india.Its due to same cause that the tormented jews were left untouched in this country .Even now,in modern times india has shown its broadness by accepting tibetan buddhists in their soceity.

 

It is indeed a miracle that the hindus have survived such various onslaughts without a preaching mechanism.

 

It is testimony to the truth that they are indeed lords chosen ones.

 

This is beautiful. Thanks.

[bhaktajan]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by kaisersose

Christian preachers are sure people who do not change over to their view are hellbound. Hare Krishnas think and believe that they found the holy grail in iskcon and everyone else is a second class citizen for not changing over to their view. Since I have not found over-zealous preachers in other beliefs, I do not have a third example.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

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You are very funny. Well said!

 

You did forget Islam, by the way.

 

Islamic fundamentalism (Quran), Christian fundamentalism (Testaments), Iskcon fundamentalism (Prabhupada's books).

 

There are these three groups of zealot preachers.

 

.................................................................................

#1 -- You are speaking about the 5 or 6 Hare Krishna Devotees that you have met in the past 20 years.

 

#2 -- You are preaching the ideas of a chorus of one person, yourself.

We are fortunate to read your accessment of world religions and people.

 

#3 -- Iskcon is a monastic entity meant to be filled by those with seniority in Bhakti-yoga. You can live with you own people who will reciprocate with you without botheration from all the crowds of ISKCON people that beckon you to take prasadam --Have it your way, town cryer.

 

 

 

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[RamanaDasi]

 

#3 -- Iskcon is a monastic entity meant to be filled by those with seniority in Bhakti-yoga.

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I have never seen any Iskcon like that. In the Iskcon I saw the seniority is gained by material activity. Material activity you do with your body or brain. Like memorizing cliches and speaking cliches. Even a lifeless computer can repeat words - that memorizing is not bhakti if you are doing it just so you can progress "up the ladder" in Iskcon. I have seen the swamis criticizing non-Iskcon people who are called karmis or mayavadis. I have been told I should do the copy-cat dancing, where you imitate the leg-swing dancing style you see the other Iskcon people doing. I have seen men with tilok making loud noises with squeeze box noise machines and imitating the sound of bhajans by singing in opera-style with your voice. That iskcon I have seen.

 

What sort of bhakti yoga is being practiced when the Iskcon men are preaching to the guests? I have seen the temple leaders preaching and then coming to the conclusion of their lecture which is that they start talking about money. They start asking for money and taking money. People come to the temple to give a donation and get some good karma and it is just like worship of some demigod - you make an offering and get good luck for yourself and Iskcon is promoting that belief. The givers and the takers are all thinking about their own benefit and I don't see any bhakti there at all. Only a reflection of bhakti like a backwards image in a mirror.

 

I have seen how the temple devotees get together in the morning and cheer "Jaya" for each other for collecting so many points (dollars) when they were doing scam-kirtan the day before. Thanks for your sales-pitch and your positive impression of the Iskcon corporation. But no thanks I'm not someone who will ever be involved as a contributor to that guru franchise system.

[celina12]

 

i feel that the idea of preaching is actually a idea of hatred.for you cannot 'preach' unless you hate all other paths and convince yourself that yours is the only path.one should sing praises of his lord or glorify him,but why 'preaching'?? isn't it very similar to those colonial christian missionaries who came to india to deliver the infidels?isnt it all about showing absolute disrespect about all other beliefs?one should expose his beliefs before everyone,so that anyone interested might follow,but why impose it??

 

I think hindus should preach, their are some who do. And they have every right too. Who gives a crap, what the purposes of non-hindus are when preaching. If you believe in your faith as the truth, then you want to spread the truth to others. Hindus believe the same. It's only indian exclusivism, that keeps use from genuinely spreading our faith. So indians think that non-indians wouldn't know how to practice hinduism. That it's better left to indians, which is false.

 

I think the Swaminarayan faith is very different in that reguard, we have an obligation to spread the name of Lord Swaminarayan far and wide and we take pride in that, if it's the truth then you shouldn't be afraid to tell it. There's nothing wrong with seeking converts to Hinduism, arguing about what "infidels" do is meaningless and a waste of time. We should be focusing on our mission. Some hindus are too introverted to the point of self-destruction. There's no crime in spreading our faith, we have the right and obligation upon us.

[celina12]

 

Hmm...do you know any preacher, who went out to preach with the possiblity in his open mind that he may encounter a belief that may convert himself? I have not seen any. Preacher are sure of their own beliefs and are doubly sure there is nothing out there that can replace their current affiliation. In fact, that smugness, is the primary motivating factor.

 

How does this align with your "intending to share ideas" and "collectively learn"? Christian preachers are sure people who do not change over to their view are hellbound. Hare Krishnas think and believe that they found the holy grail in iskcon and everyone else is a second class citizen for not changing over to their view. Since I have not found over-zealous preachers in other beliefs, I do not have a third example.

 

In short, the whole concept of preaching is to convert the other to my own point of view. Otherwise, there is absolutely no reason to preach at all.

 

Cheers

 

so? and they have every right to? If you believe what you have is the ultimate truth, then why not share it? Hindus should do the same. people have have right to preach their beliefs, if you don't believe your faith is worth preaching and teaching to others, then maybe you should find something stronger to believe in.

[celina12]

 

There is only one hindu nation because hindus never undertook to preach or convert.The first missionary activities started with budhism,which spread even to alexandria and china.

 

Hindus always belived that spirituality is for a chosen few(truth seekers) while commoners were advised to follow dharma and merit gaining rituals(punya karma).They also had this broad universal outlook which made them realise that all paths ,if properly adhered to, is essentially true.

It is indeed a miracle that the hindus have survived such various onslaughts without a preaching mechanism.

 

It is testimony to the truth that they are indeed lords chosen ones.

 

Sorry but who are you to speak to all of Hindu Dharma? Hinduism is not only for a chosen few! The reason why there is only one Hindu country in the world is because of Indian exclusivisim and collectivist mindset. Unwilling to spread dharma in an unrighteous would. Remember Lord Krishna's conversation with Arjuna? Sometimes you just have to fight....for your beliefs, country etc.... Indians are just a passive people and we've paid for it by having various rulers....the moghuls, the british etc... Even our Lord told us there's a time to fight for our beliefs in this world. Although some are content with being a slave. Our faith is valuable and has something to contribute to the world and that's why I actively spread Hindu dharma by preaching Lord Swaminarayan's word.

[celina12]

 

Buddha preached with the intent to convert.

 

Do you know why there's only one Hindu nation in the entire world ?

 

true, but there are more and more hindus who preach the dharma, there are many swaminarayan sects that do missions. I think there are certain branches of hinduism that have a bright future throughout the world.

[sambya]

Celina ,I think you didnt catch my meaning.I am not speaking about the exclusivism and collectivist mindset of hindus.Every individual has the right to profess hinduism or sanatan dharma.In fact its the duty of every man to follow dharma.But what i mean to say is that spiritual knowledge or enlightment is not for the masses. Only very elevated soul nearing their liberation actually recieves that knowledge.While the rest speculate and try to practise religion.Hindu doctrines recognized this and so it is said that brahma jignyasa(inquiry into the nature of the self) indeed strikes a few persons.Rest are contended in merely practising their faith.This is also mentioned in gita.

 

Sanatan dharma recognised that not all people are eligible to tread the spiritual path.So for them numerous yagnas and rituals were suggested which would increase their merits(punya) and so that eventually all of them comes to the point of brahma jignyasa,if not in this birth,maybe in future ones.

 

And as reguards my opinions and veiwsIi must say im largely influenced by vivekananda.So my views are largely expansions of his ideas reguarding hinduism.

 

By the way,i respect your strong unflinching devotion to your belief.

[Bee]

 

i feel that the idea of preaching is actually a idea of hatred.for you cannot 'preach' unless you hate all other paths and convince yourself that yours is the only path.one should sing praises of his lord or glorify him,but why 'preaching'?? isn't it very similar to those colonial christian missionaries who came to india to deliver the infidels?isnt it all about showing absolute disrespect about all other beliefs?one should expose his beliefs before everyone,so that anyone interested might follow,but why impose it??

 

Yes, I do not really like it when Hindus preach. I was in central London three months ago, and a few Hare Krishna people were outside preaching. And I could see people walking past who didn't like it. There was an air of tension and I was not comfortable walking down there. I know their intentions were good, but if preaching to non-believers causes tension then it is better not to do it. Only preach to those who asked to be preached at.

[ARJ]

 

Yes, I do not really like it when Hindus preach. I was in central London three months ago, and a few Hare Krishna people were outside preaching. And I could see people walking past who didn't like it. There was an air of tension and I was not comfortable walking down there. I know their intentions were good, but if preaching to non-believers causes tension then it is better not to do it. Only preach to those who asked to be preached at.

& you'd also find such a thread at a hindu forum only.

[suchandra]

 

i feel that the idea of preaching is actually a idea of hatred.for you cannot 'preach' unless you hate all other paths and convince yourself that yours is the only path.one should sing praises of his lord or glorify him,but why 'preaching'?? isn't it very similar to those colonial christian missionaries who came to india to deliver the infidels?isnt it all about showing absolute disrespect about all other beliefs?one should expose his beliefs before everyone,so that anyone interested might follow,but why impose it??

Preaching can be also seen as teaching, trying to help by providing knowledge.

People surely need help and are confused about what is the goal of life.

 

Today I read a religious magazine and was astounded what they say how the spiritual world looks like, see pics below.

 

This looks rather like vedic farming and not like the spiritual world. But how can people get the right description if nobody is telling them?

 

 

[bgita67]

 

i feel that the idea of preaching is actually a idea of hatred.for you cannot 'preach' unless you hate all other paths and convince yourself that yours is the only path.one should sing praises of his lord or glorify him,but why 'preaching'?? isn't it very similar to those colonial christian missionaries who came to india to deliver the infidels?isnt it all about showing absolute disrespect about all other beliefs?one should expose his beliefs before everyone,so that anyone interested might follow,but why impose it??

 

To claim that the idea of preaching is rooted in hatred is a sign that you have not considered the different points of view on preaching. Some people preach or share their religion with others just because it's a required duty. Others preach because they absolutely love their god and wish that others could experience the same joy. Then there are those who believe their religion is the truth and they want to preach because of their compassion for the blind or those who do not know their religion. And of course, there are those who preach because they want to make a living from it or because they really do think that their way is morally and spiritually superior to all others.

 

I have come to think that even though some religions and sects are into preaching, one of them just might happen to actually have the truth. Salafi Muslims can preach all they want to and anyone who converts will only enter into a religion that is demanding and puts limits on everything. Eventually that convert will be reborn into another body so that they have another chance to experience god-realization. Christians can preach all they want to as well and anyone who converts has only entered a religion with the "wait until you die to experience God" mentality. Buddhists can preach all they want to like the Christian or Muslim and anyone who converts has only entered into an atheistic religion which may help their soul, that really does exist by the way, take millions of years or aeons to free itself. Gaudiya Vaishnavas can preach all they want to and then someone who converts has entered a religion with very simple practices (like eating and chanting) and they are able to directly experience God... 'cuz he's a particular person, ya know.

[AncientMariner]

 

i feel that the idea of preaching is actually a idea of hatred.for you cannot 'preach' unless you hate all other paths and convince yourself that yours is the only path.one should sing praises of his lord or glorify him,but why 'preaching'?? isn't it very similar to those colonial christian missionaries who came to india to deliver the infidels?isnt it all about showing absolute disrespect about all other beliefs?one should expose his beliefs before everyone,so that anyone interested might follow,but why impose it??

 

 

I do not like preaching at all. I can respect someone like Srila Prabhupada for what he did. It takes a lot of courage to go out to the public and share your beliefs but preaching is not my cup of tea even though it seems like it is a necessary part of being considered an actual Hare Krishna. I don't see myself ever getting to that point in this lifetime so the best I can do is have some level of appreciation for Krishna Consciousness as an outside observer.

[suchandra]

 

I do not like preaching at all. I can respect someone like Srila Prabhupada for what he did. It takes a lot of courage to go out to the public and share your beliefs but preaching is not my cup of tea even though it seems like it is a necessary part of being considered an actual Hare Krishna. I don't see myself ever getting to that point in this lifetime so the best I can do is have some level of appreciation for Krishna Consciousness as an outside observer.

 

Thanks AncientMariner, but you just preached when explaining that Prabhupada did a great job.

In fact since this can be read by 6 bio people, you're a world preacher, no more waiting for another lifetime.

[Amlesh]

 

I do not like preaching at all. I can respect someone like Srila Prabhupada for what he did. It takes a lot of courage to go out to the public and share your beliefs but preaching is not my cup of tea even though it seems like it is a necessary part of being considered an actual Hare Krishna. I don't see myself ever getting to that point in this lifetime so the best I can do is have some level of appreciation for Krishna Consciousness as an outside observer.

Preaching is meant for Brahmanas...

In Iskcon everyone preaches... everyone is a Brahmana.

They are not at all adhering to the Varnasrama Principles and I've perceived many went to preach without having substantial knowledge. It is doing more harm than good.

 

In the Battlefield, Arjuna was not preaching.

He was doing Bhakti in his style... sorry, according to his Nature.

Me too, I'm not preachy.

 

If Hare Krsnas can understand at least that part then many things can change for the good.

 

PS: My opinion, can be ignored.

[Bee]

 

& you'd also find such a thread at a hindu forum only.

 

But it is true. They were outside with their drums and selling books. They were very loud about it as well. They may have helped several people on that day but at the cost of aggravating how many people? Why give anyone the chance to throw insults.

[ARJ]

 

But it is true. They were outside with their drums and selling books. They were very loud about it as well. They may have helped several people on that day but at the cost of aggravating how many people? Why give anyone the chance to throw insults.

 

You missed the point, anyway in my personal opinion the Hare-Krishnas or Swami Narayans are not hindus, I'm saying this coz I personally know some HKs & SNs & I know what they believe in. I'm born Hindu & in India & I still donno who or what's Swami Narayan & on this forum some people claim he's the Supreme being, as for Hare-Krishnas they've really made an Abrahamic tyrannic god out of Krishna.

 

what this lady (celina12) say's here "If you believe in your faith as the truth, then you want to spread the truth to others." & "There's no crime in spreading our faith, we have the right and obligation upon us" is definitely Abrahamic, than Vedic.

[bhaktajan]

what this lady (celina12) say's here "If you believe in your faith as the truth, then you want to spread the truth to others." & "There's no crime in spreading our faith, we have the right and obligation upon us" is definitely Abrahamic, than Vedic.

 

What a mashugana goyam (yiddish).

 

I pay 50 pence for the tabloid newspaper

and its always filled with sports

and advertisments--why must I pay a fee to read

a paper filled with paid adverts

to "propagandise" something,

other than the "Good News"--

and I definitely do not mean ""Man Bites Dog"" type of news.

 

But don't let me thread on your right to express your Opinion --Thank God and Infantry and the magna carta etc etc etc.

 

Please pass the salt babuji.