Ever wondered who the real Kurma dasa ACBSP is?

Sarva gattah · September 24, 2008

(By Kurma dasa, the well known devotee cook from Australia)

Dear Revered Devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

This is Kurma dasa, disciple of Srila Prabhupada, cookbook writer.

Is there more than one, you ask? Yes! There are a few Kurma dasas around. There is myself, there is Kurma dasa in Mayapur, and of course there is Kurma Rupa. There may be more. I often get sent letters meant for Kurma Rupa, and maybe he gets a few of mine.

Why am I telling you this? The reason is that for some time now I have been tolerating a certain other devotee called ‘Kurma dasa’ who has has been posting salacious, Ritvik-inspired criticisms on some other websites.

This ‘other Kurma dasa’ is Ken McCleod, who, some years ago, apparently visited New Vrindavan, took initiation from Kirtanananda Swami and received the name “Kurma dasa”. He now lives in Melbourne. I know him well, he knows me, and he writes a lot of critical articles for these fault-finding websites. To avoid confusion as to the author’s identity, I have asked him humbly to stop writing these articles under the name “Kurma dasa”, but he declined. Maybe he figured he could get some mileage with that name, a bit like ’smoking ganja with someone else’s hand’, as Srila Prabhupada so aptly put it.

To make it worse (for me) ‘the other Kurma dasa’ often mentions Australia in his critiques, and this has further convinced a number of people that it is indeed Australia-based Kurma dasa the cook who is writing those articles.

I had approached the editor of one of those other websites and asked him to rectify the misunderstanding by mentioning, in the ‘by-line’ that the author was not me, Kurma dasa ACBSP. He appeared less than enthusiastic but graciously agreed, finally, to add, way down at the end of Ken’s articles “Kurma das (not the chef)”. However, many readers stop reading before they get to the end of Ken’s stuff, perhaps thinking “boy that Kurma’s really gone off the deep end…!”.

Dear readers, recently some of these articles have been quoted and discussed on more mainstream, respectable (and respectful) websites, prompting a few of my friends to question me about my allegiances. They thought it was way out of character for me to criticise devotees in print, and I explained to them exactly what I am explaining to you here: I am not the author.

So dear worshipable devotees, please let it be known that I am not a follower of so-called ‘Ritvik’ doctrine, and I am not an envious fault-finder; I love the devotees. I am a loyal member of Iskcon. I aspire for the mercy and good wishes of all the disciples, grand-disciples and grand-grand-disciples of Srila Prabhupada, ad infinitum, and beg you to not think of me as an offender of the Vaisnavas.

At your service,

Kurma dasa

website: http://www.kurma.net/

blog: http://www.iskcon.net.au/kurma/

#1 Comment By NityanandaChandra On September 21, 2008 @ 5:34 pm

Haribol,

The same scenario also happened Madhudvisa Prabhu. I would not accept that such a great servant and cook as Kurma Prabhu could author anything anything against Srila Prabhupada’s institution. Just look at that smile, .

Your humble servant,

Nityananda Chandra Das

#2 Comment By Akruranatha On September 21, 2008 @ 5:55 pm

It is easy to understand your concern. Thanks for warning us.

I never saw any of the Ken McCleod “Kurma das” material, but a number of years ago (maybe 10 or so ago?) I was seeing a lot of anti-ISKCON material on the internet by one “Madhudvisa,” who of course is not our (ACBSP) Madhudvisa, but he talked about Australia and it made me do one or two double takes before I figured out what was going on.

A lot of us have the same spiritual names and we just have to learn to be alert when we read something and stay aware that it might not be the same “___ das” or “___ dasi” we think it is (and if it really doesn’t sound like them, that’s probably because it isn’t)

#3 Comment By Danavir Goswami On September 22, 2008 @ 3:09 am

Kurma dasa Prabhu has nicely expressed his desire to be known as a faithful ISKCON devotee. There is merit in this, he is not boasting but just distinguishing.

#4 Comment By Sikhi Mahiti das acbsp On September 24, 2008 @ 12:49 am

There was a period of a two years or so that I would receive a lot of emails intended for a devotee with my spiritual name. So, I began adding “acbsp” at the end of my signature. The errant emails have slowed to a trickle. This seems like a good practice for the devotee online community. Maybe there are some other suggestions.

#5 Comment posted by Gauragopala dasa on September 24th, 2008

Just adding to Kurma Prabhu’s concerned comments from above, who I first met just after he joined in 1971, as well as the other inspiring comments from the devotees.

It should be noted that on Srila Prabhupada’s disciple database, there is only ONE Kurma dasa ACBSP (Kurma dasa Sydney 5/1971) and ONE Madhudvisa dasa ACBSP (San Francisco 8/1968)

If anyone wants to verify who is a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, then you can visit

www.prabhupada.com/disciple.php

It’s an interesting read

suchandra · September 24, 2008

Finally I get it, Sarva = Kurma dasa ACBSP. :rolleyes:

Sarva gattah · September 24, 2008

Clearly I said - By Kurma dasa, the well known devotee cook from Australia

Suchandra, your an idiot. Kurma Prabhu ACBSP is below and I am in the next photo

Kurma dasa on his way to jail in 1974 for Krsna

j

Thats me (rather, the body I am trapped in) holding the BTG Magazine 1979 Hare Krsna, have a good day.

Although Kurma dasa ACBSP and myself spent four days in jail together in 1972 for chanting Hare Krsna on the streets

suchandra · September 24, 2008

Clearly I said - By Kurma dasa, the well known devotee cook from Australia

Suchandra, your an idiot.

Using such harsh profanity when someone misunderstood a post is not Vaishnava.

Vaishnava is something else, but not this.

Sarva gattah · September 24, 2008

Using such harsh profanity when someone misunderstood a post is not Vaishnava.
Vaishnava is something else, but not this.

I'm no Vaishnava; I'm trying to be one. Being Vaishnava in not cheap. I just remember your last attack on me when I criticized Kurma (not the chef) for his silly comments about Melbourne Temple.

However, you can see Kurma dasa ACBSP is not happy with him either.

If you genuinly made a mistake, then I apologise.

suchandra · September 24, 2008

I'm no Vaishnava; I'm trying to be one. Being Vaishnava in not cheap. I just remember your last attack on me when I criticized Kurma (not the chef) for his silly comments about Melbourne Temple.

However, you can see Kurma dasa ACBSP is not happy with him either.

If you genuinly made a mistake, then I apologise.

May be you go and get some lessons from the TP of ISKCON Melbourne, HG Sri Sriman Sitapati Prabhu, he writes at his website, http://atmayogi.com/node/538

"Last time I was in Melbourne I met up with Kurma das (not the chef), a regular Sun contributor and a nice guy, and we had a good time together. He is a god brother of my wife, so I guess that makes him my "godbrother-in-law"."

HG Sitapati Prabhu, editor of www.planetiskcon.com

Sarva gattah · September 24, 2008

May be you go and get some lessons from the TP of ISKCON Melbourne

I do, Aniruddha Prabhu is doing a great service there in Melbourne. I just sent him an email an hour ago.

As far as Kurma (not the chef) is concerned, it seems everyone has their own opinion. I'm no saint, I get disillusioned sometimes and fault find as well. But gradually I am learning that only constructive words can help, not destructive

Calling you an idiot was foolish and childish. On the same note, help ISKCON, don’t hinder Prabhupada’s Movement with our bitchy frustrations. Actually I thank you for helping me realize WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF WE HUMBLY, SINCERELY AND GENUINELY TRY.

gHari · September 25, 2008

Not guilty

For getting in your way

While you're trying to steal the day

Not guilty

And I'm not here for the rest

I'm not trying to steal your vest.

I am not trying to be smart

I only want what I can get

I'm really sorry for your ageing head

But like you heard me said

Not guilty.

Not guilty

For being on your street

Getting underneath your feet

Not guilty

No use handing me a writ

While I'm trying to do my bit.

I don't expect to take your heart . . .

I only want what I can get

I'm really sorry that you're underfed . . .

But like you heard me said . . .

Not guilty.

Not guilty

For looking like a freak

Making friends with every Sikh

Not guilty

For leading you astray

On the road to Mandalay.

I won't upset the apple cart

I only want what I can get

I'm really sorry that you've been misled . . .

But like you heard me said . . .

Not guilty.

Virakrsna · October 1, 2008

:deal:

Where does Kurma the Famous Chef Stand?

BY: KURMA DASA

Sep 30, AUSTRALIA (SUN) — Recently I became slightly famous when I got a mention on Dandavats by the "Famous Chef, Kurma Dasa", who in his article claimed that he had been, "tolerating a certain devotee for some time now" (me), and that he had also asked me to "please stop writing my articles." He also inferred by reference to himself that somehow, I had gone off the deep end for writing articles about cheating gurus and ISKCON's rogue elements.

To all and sundry who may have happened to read this article I would like to point out some lies that Kurma dasa the famous chef has told in his article. First of all, Kurma the famous chef made the claim that he had approached me and asked me to stop writing my articles. This is a lie! He has never approached me in this matter at all!

Second, he may well have approached the editors of the website, as he claims, however he is once again telling a lie in making the claim that it was he who added the (not the chef) to the end of my articles. I did this myself because my initial thoughts were that I didn't want readers to confuse me with him, because of the very important points I am making about deviations within ISKCON, which are a far cry from what the famous chef writes about. In fact, as far as I know, he supports all of the deviations.

He also claimed that I write critical articles on other websites, but the fact is most items that I write only appear on the Sampradaya Sun. I do know for a fact that whilst Kurma the famous chef and many of his buddies were building and conquering their Australian Empire, there were a lot of devotees they oppressed, kicked out, and abused, so we can guess that I am not the only person in Australia writing critical articles.

Just like Kurma dasa the famous chef has claimed to tolerate me, I (not the famous chef), like many others in Australia, have tolerated Kurma dasa's silence over the years in matters of great significance that are affecting Srila Prabhupada's Movement. Kurma prabhu did play a big part in assisting Bhavananda in his attempt to accrue his homosexual empire in this part of the world. Kurma prabhu, being a senior devotee, had a duty to take care of those who came to ISKCON in those days, but rather than do this he kicked people out who refused to view Bhavananda as a maha-bhagavat.

Instead of writing critical articles about my criticisms, I would like to see Kurma dasa write some articles about where he stands in relation to some of the serious issues facing ISKCON. For example, what is his stance about the 2/3rd majority bogus voting-in guru system? Considering that it is a farce sastrically, and has never been part of Vaisnava tradition, what does he say about that?

He was quick to brand me as a Ritvik, which many of his counterparts claim is not being part of tradition. So what is the difference between Ritvik and 2/3rd majority when considering tradition?

What does he say about gurus with shady pasts? We believe Kurma prabhu has made good friends with Devamrita Swami, so what are his thoughts about Devamrita Swami's quick conversion from Hare Christian in Australia, to voted-in ISKCON guru?

On the scale of things, these are of utmost importance for ISKCON -- far more important than how much cumin should be added to a ten pound pot of subji. But I doubt very much whether we will hear any commentary about these things from Kurma the famous chef. Such subjects are taboo when you're part of the gopi bhava club!

Kurma Dasa (not the famous chef)

suchandra · October 1, 2008

He was quick to brand me as a Ritvik, which many of his counterparts claim is not being part of tradition. So what is the difference between Ritvik and 2/3rd majority when considering tradition?

Thanks Virakrsna, yes, we have to insist upon that point that officiating Vaishnavas are reminded to be consistent. ISKCON's education headmaster, Krishna Kshetra dasa published yesterday at his blog, http://www.krishnakshetra.info/archives/51

The Song of God as Journey of Discipleship: Bhagavad-gita and Christian Perspectives
Last Modified : September 30th, 2008

© Kenneth Valpey (Krishna Kshetra Das)

This is an essay I wrote for a seminar, “Christ in Light of Hindu Theology” at the Graduate Theological Union in 1997. Professor Francis X. Clooney, S.J., who later became my doctoral supervisor, led the seminar. This is an exploratory essay, preliminary thoughts on a theme that could be developed further.

Krsna Kshetra das deeply dives into Christian mysticism and to utilize parallels of the teachings of Lord Jesus to compare with Bhagavad-gita and Vedic siddhanta.

When it comes to the position of Lord Jesus being worshiped by priests=ritviks, Krishna Kshetra Das classifies this worship as useless waste of time since Lord Jesus is dead and gone and not physically among us.

In other words, there're huge essays being written about parallels between the teachings of Christ and the Vedas but in fact Christ is considered as dead and gone and no relationship possible.

De facto what does this mean, the whole Christian religion is considered as bogus humbug. But why not being honest to say it, what is the problem to say, this whole thing should be rejected?

Instead we find lengthy articles about comparative religious study of Bible/Vedas, and, "preliminary thoughts on a theme that could be developed further."

When it comes to followers of Prabhupada who consider Prabhupada should be worshiped like Jesus, there's no essay being written. This is even classified as poison, demoniac and members of ISKCON have to sign that they won't indulge into the "ritvik doctrine", otherwise they will be banned from ISKCON.

This is rather diplomacy, people are afraid to announce that Christianity is also nothing but ritvik poison and rather write books about parallels between the Old Testament and Vedic knowledge, but in fact totally rejecting Christ as dead and gone.

What makes me raise this question, how someone can possibly have any vital force in view of carrying around all day such a heavy load of antagonism within his head?

Sarva gattah · October 1, 2008

Where does Kurma the Famous Chef Stand?

BY: KURMA DASA

Sep 30, AUSTRALIA (SUN) — Recently I became slightly famous when I got a mention on Dandavats by the "Famous Chef, Kurma Dasa", who in his article claimed that he had been, "tolerating a certain devotee for some time now" (me), and that he had also asked me to "please stop writing my articles." He also inferred by reference to himself that somehow, I had gone off the deep end for writing articles about cheating gurus and ISKCON's rogue elements.

To all and sundry who may have happened to read this article I would like to point out some lies that Kurma dasa the famous chef has told in his article. First of all, Kurma the famous chef made the claim that he had approached me and asked me to stop writing my articles. This is a lie! He has never approached me in this matter at all!

Second, he may well have approached the editors of the website, as he claims, however he is once again telling a lie in making the claim that it was he who added the (not the chef) to the end of my articles. I did this myself because my initial thoughts were that I didn't want readers to confuse me with him, because of the very important points I am making about deviations within ISKCON, which are a far cry from what the famous chef writes about. In fact, as far as I know, he supports all of the deviations.

He also claimed that I write critical articles on other websites, but the fact is most items that I write only appear on the Sampradaya Sun. I do know for a fact that whilst Kurma the famous chef and many of his buddies were building and conquering their Australian Empire, there were a lot of devotees they oppressed, kicked out, and abused, so we can guess that I am not the only person in Australia writing critical articles.

Just like Kurma dasa the famous chef has claimed to tolerate me, I (not the famous chef), like many others in Australia, have tolerated Kurma dasa's silence over the years in matters of great significance that are affecting Srila Prabhupada's Movement. Kurma prabhu did play a big part in assisting Bhavananda in his attempt to accrue his homosexual empire in this part of the world. Kurma prabhu, being a senior devotee, had a duty to take care of those who came to ISKCON in those days, but rather than do this he kicked people out who refused to view Bhavananda as a maha-bhagavat.

Instead of writing critical articles about my criticisms, I would like to see Kurma dasa write some articles about where he stands in relation to some of the serious issues facing ISKCON. For example, what is his stance about the 2/3rd majority bogus voting-in guru system? Considering that it is a farce sastrically, and has never been part of Vaisnava tradition, what does he say about that?

He was quick to brand me as a Ritvik, which many of his counterparts claim is not being part of tradition. So what is the difference between Ritvik and 2/3rd majority when considering tradition?

What does he say about gurus with shady pasts? We believe Kurma prabhu has made good friends with Devamrita Swami, so what are his thoughts about Devamrita Swami's quick conversion from Hare Christian in Australia, to voted-in ISKCON guru?

On the scale of things, these are of utmost importance for ISKCON -- far more important than how much cumin should be added to a ten pound pot of subji. But I doubt very much whether we will hear any commentary about these things from Kurma the famous chef. Such subjects are taboo when you're part of the gopi bhava club!

Kurma Dasa (not the famous chef)

An interesting read and some valid points to consider.

Kurma prabhu' date=' being a senior devotee, had a duty to take care of those who came to ISKCON in those days, but rather than do this he kicked people out who refused to view Bhavananda as a maha-bhagavat. [/quote']

Ramai 'sWAMI' used to tell us how Bhavananda came specially from Vaikuntha to save the world. I always got the mood on impersonalism aroynd arrogent puffed up devotees like Ramai Swami

Sarva gattah · October 1, 2008

The dogs may bark but the caravan continues on

suchandra · October 2, 2008

The dogs may bark but the caravan continues on

They shouldn't bark but just explain their idea that "Krishna's guru successors" are "2/3 show of hands voted in" - by a panel of people very prone to making mistakes, if not sometimes even engaging in sinful activity.

How could a guru be first of all be voted in by such a panel and then "monitored, chastised, censured, and excommunicated" by said, -- since isn't it stated on every page of sastra that the guru is taking direct dictation from Krishna?

And why would that panel have the authority to over-ride the direct dictation of God to censure GOD's direct guru successors?

All this creates the result that they have lost people's faith in this kind of spirituality. After all, isn't this the core of a spiritual movement, how the parampara system is perfectly continued?

And therefore you find them so busy trying to impress the public with buildings, erecting hollow façades to cover up the antagonism. In other words, they are fully conscious about their mistake but try to hide it.

Sarva gattah · October 3, 2008

There is a lot of good points in the following - yes, we have to be fair and honest in our critizisms and not emotional

Kesava Krsna dasa writes:

There is something unsettling about faultfinders who claim to have Iskcon and Srila Prabhupada’s interest at heart, but who use cunning behaviour to tell the whole world how devious and wicked the honest devotees are. Unfortunately, innocent, happy-faced devotees can turn into cold judgemental characters after being exposed to words said to be highly beneficial for the devotee community.

There exists an enormous market in the genre of gossip and rumour, which explains the great popularity of TV soap operas the world over. Repetitive themes of spiritual scandal, heresy, and deviation make for indulgent absorption, especially for one experiencing a dreary devotional continuation.

Such curious excitement about the who’s who in spiritual circles issuing from suspect forums can be the stuff that kills the cat of the devotional creeper without even knowing it.

Exercising the right for free speech and discrimination and disguising all manner of invectives and negativity with polished philosophy and zealous concern, these expressions are intended to destroy tender faith, and help harden the heart to repeat the abusive cycle of fault-finding in others.

Faultfinders are fond of using various tactics to impose their superiority in argument, but when pitted against proper adherence to vaisnava culture these same tactics become their downfall.

The use of certain types of logic though appealing to many, in fact lay bare the inner workings of a distressed condition, much like seeing an ugly tortoise without it’s shell.

“I am still healthy and chanting”

Historical vaisnava literature records how certain offenders to vaisnavas succumbed to devastating reactions such as leprosy and other disasters. Bearing in mind these afflictions came after insulting exalted souls like Srila Haridasa Thakur, the question arises; do these reactions fit the severity of the crime? Or to put it into today’s context, after the passing of Srila Prabhupada who naturally exuded a maha-bhagavat stature, will the offending of all those less than him, including the gurus and other honest devotees, mete out far lesser reactions, or none at all?

Some faultfinders proudly proclaim to have been dredging up the dirt of faults in their adversarial God brothers and sisters, and grand disciples for years, yet they are still healthy and chanting Hare Krishna too. Without compunction, they obviously feel that with no ill effects befalling them they are doing the correct thing. Is this really the case? Are they truly free from any serious consequences?

In reality, there is one outstanding feature of punishment evident for all to see, day after day, year after year. While the physical reactions may not be discernable, the body still does the bidding of higher faculties. So when the mind and intelligence are deeply absorbed in thinking and planning what next abusive article to write for the destruction of devotee’s faith while chanting Hare Krishna, this in itself is serious punishment given by the Lord.

In other words, the bodily appendages may not be melting away with leprosy, but the attraction to delightfully zoom in to the festering sores, boils, and wounds of honest but sometimes-faulty spiritual endeavour is a joyous perversion of bliss.

Such a state of mind will admire the stench of rotting potatoes to be the heavenly fragrance of the blue lotus flower, and a pineapple to taste like mouldy broccoli. This is unfortunate.

Indiscriminat discrimination

“I am using my powers of discrimination, oh dasa”. While the objects of their lampooning are referred to as dasa and guys, the faultfinders reverently call each other prabhus. “We are allowed to discriminate aren’t we? Trouble is, we don’t discriminate enough…you see, a spade is a spade…” Are copious amounts of discrimination good for all of us? Let us see.

In normal vaisnava dealings, it would be most foolhardy and reckless to disparage a guru in good standing in front of a disciple, or group of disciples. This would certainly be a doomed case of so-called discrimination. Such a person would hardly tell a garden pea from a cannon ball. Yet on certain forums, the use of incorrect discrimination can at once ruin the spiritual lives of many unsuspecting devotees.

Striding under the banner of good old hard-nosed journalistic dedication combined with discrimination, the publishing of tales often based on rumour and second-guessing about honest devotees and spiritual masters, are actually indiscriminate doses of toxic sludge that have no value for the devotional creeper. Rather than uplift the readers these ‘highly beneficial’ tales plunge the consciousness down into ignorance.

If after reading such material a devotee begins to lose respect and faith in other honest devotees then we know the work of the indiscriminator has cast the evil spell of aparadha into the heart, to replicate the same with a new recruit. The dangers posed by these faultfinders often go unnoticed because the injection of ignorance will cloud the ability to know. Is there any wonder why they think they are always right?

Unfair debaters

Because illusion and ignorance has stolen their sense of decency and happiness, the need to rise to the position of guru almighty helps to insulate against fair and dignified debate. If, for instance a disciple legitimately defends his or her guru, the predictable retort will be; “Stop being sentimental, oh dasa or dasi”.

Not realising that human sentiments have their place in matters of devotion, just as the Pandavas seethed on hearing Sisupala’s blasphemous tirade against Krishna, the faultfinders have lost their finer sentiments having been eroded by punishment.

A proud ignorant stance has a reputation to keep and to ensure victory means to argue in a way that the opponent be “damned if they do, and damned if they don’t”. A generous quantity of dirty tricks like speculation, second-guessing the object of envy, dredging up the past, casting aspersions, are just some of their artillery.

In order to be noticed on certain forums the use of eye-catching scandalous headlines hope to invite responses and challenges from honest devotees. The faultfinders lament when honest devotees do not respond to their victory cries, for swan like mentalities care not for crow-like places.

Then the faultfinders proclaim again that they are victorious simply because nobody cared to debate with them - hollow victory indeed. If there is no scriptural basis, on which to find fault or unnecessarily correct others without being a father or guru, this alone defeats their purpose.

Bewildered about who a vaisnava is

The punishment of being attracted to the morose destruction of faith is combined with a worrying inability to tell a vaisnava from a non-vaisnava. The craving to belittle the vaisnavas in good standing obviously means they do not consider them vaisnavas, unless of course they are someone like Sri Srivasa Thakur.

Those in knowledge cannot condone the gratuitous wholesale nature of their ‘discriminate’ ramblings aimed at weakening the faith of readers in certain vaisnavas. To have one’s knowledge stolen by illusion is a certain cause of bewilderment in ascertaining who is favoured by Krishna, and who is not.

This consideration alone in conjecturing who is dear to Krishna, and who is not, from the distance of uninformed guesswork does not fit within the purview of sanity. Discretion dictates the utmost in respect, and confidentiality in matters of deep personal doubt; not displaying it as a leverage to settle scores, or to gather support against those disliked on a personal level.

Depleted finer sentiments

Posturing as a devotee yet demeaning another reveals the erosion of positive sentiments like appreciation, gratitude, gratefulness, encouragement and so on, which do not feature very much in their analyses; we do see more negative wording reflecting distress and allied emotions.

Can a distressed state of mind speak or write sound philosophy?

When Lord Krishna was about to engage in battle against Jarasandha, and during the initial beating of the chest verbal exchanges, He had this to say: “We do not care to hear from you any more, because it is useless to hear the words of a person who is going to die or one who is very distressed”. (Krishna book ch. 50)

“The passion for honour” (BG. 16.1) at the expense of another devotee will usually be obtained through being “expert in insulting others” (BG.18.28). As it is normal for any happily situated devotee to admire the efforts of fellow devotees, in spite of learning curves and mistakes, these do not register for one in a distressed state of mind.

Even a reasonable person will reflect: “Devotional service is such a rare, rare thing. How astonishing it is that all these devotees are trying, yes, trying to please their spiritual masters and Krishna”. To be devoid of this simple sentiment indicates something is wrong, and to publish hollowed out under-sentimental words meant for devotees is a great disservice.

I know that

To impress with their learning the faultfinders will presume to already know about certain realisations of assured devotees when passing judgement on their work. Many of them distanced themselves from Iskcon years ago and are ensnared in a time and space quite far removed from the progress made in terms of devotee learning, and general maturation within Iskcon.

When they analyse something it is often reactive to the subject matter at hand, and will introduce repetitions of times gone by without genuine insight. The urge to communicate inner conflicts and unhappiness heavily influences their ongoing desire to have the world take them seriously, but the realisations will be limited to these constraints.

Fault finding the fault-finders

Another typical response to an honest devotee trying to defend other vaisnavas is, “you are fault finding yourself…so how can your words have any value?”

To this, we should see who stands upon firmer territory sastrically, the faultfinder, or the one who is defending honest devotees. Remembering how cunning a person with no sastric backing can be and how he will turn around an honest argument, the simple answer is, the defender has moral authority.

Even so, to get into an argument with a seasoned faultfinder will not produce a satisfactory outcome. The tendency to add more criticism and unfounded personal attacks to match some normal responses by the defender will bring the encounter down to an undignified level.

Better to keep a distance, and if they wallow in an acclaimed victory that never was, let them have it, for they have their punishment to contend with without any chance of victory, unless they change. The attempts of the defender are more an ornament, but the climate in which good advice is unheeded is rife with ignorance.

Curiosity hacks the creeper

When some rumour mongering stokes the fire of curiosity and directs us towards the source, be it verbal or written, knowing full well the story may be false or plain downright vengeful, should we be worried? We should if we accept the information as factual, when later it turned out to be untrue, by which time some faith and respect has been hacked.

Now the global village enables news to whiz into our e-mail boxes in an instance, the need for information is easily granted, but so is the lurking devil of our curiosity, which requires upward direction. Whatever feeds our information requirements it is worth noting in the event of a headline sensation, the often-repeated warnings of Srila Prabhupada.

Just one typical example should suffice to curb our risky curiosity: “Even if you find some fault in him. Because sadhu is sadhu-bhusanah. You cannot find fault in him. Cannot find fault, but even though if you find some fault, but if you find that he is strictly, he is engaged in the service of the Lord, Krishna says, he is sadhu”. (BG. 4.8 class, Bombay, March 28, 1974)

Sarva gattah · October 3, 2008

Comments •

1 you are absolutely right.. but i think that the most important thing is to see the problems and to find a remedy.. especially when the problems are many …

in the verse of Krsna Book that you have brought, it is Krishna who judges that jarasanda is not to be allowed to talk..

we have not such power…

so it is possible that who we call an offender (that it can be an offense in itself), is not an offender but a sincere devotee..

but.. the most important thing remains the problem… if you criticize me or my situation, i have to take it in consideration and i have to think about it, even if you were recognizable as the biggest demon..

(sorry for my bad english… )

HARE KRISHNA !!!

Comment posted by yasodanandana on September 27th, 2008

2 Yashodanandana Prabhu,

While it is true many issues need to be dealt with, and sincere devotees will no doubt raise their concerns in the proper way, there is a difference of approach in how faultfinders and sincere devotees face such problems.

A sincere devotee will more likely tackle the issues at hand without going for the man as it were - to heap scorn on a personal level. Sincere devotees will observe vaisnava protocols and communicate concerns behind the scenes. Such discreet communication will help ease the pressure for forced disclosure and minimise the personal fallout, considering the hurt caused.

Faultfinders will sieze the same opportunity and publicise the issue and gloat in the credit of hurting the feelings of others. The pride of righteousness will also aim for the man and personalise the issue. Even honest devotees in good standing are unable to escape indiscriminate corrections.

The difference of approach is the difference between goodness and ignorance tinged with passion; mature or immature, civilized or corrosive. Even materailistic people acknowledge the need for civilized conduct when resolving faulty issues. Of course, serious matters will surface sooner or later, naming and all, and there is no exception within the devotee community either, and in some cases this is warranted.

So the behaviour of a sincere devotee and how he or she reacts in certain situations will be different to how a seething faultfinder reacts. If we are unable too see the difference we can very easily side with the faultfinding mentality and think to ourselves: “What’s the harm? There only pointing out defects.”

It should come to notice that a display of indifference, or mild approval, can grab one into the net of faultfinding and eventually erode the sensitivity to finer vaisnava sentiments. For this reason a desensitised mind feels less guilt about harsh judgements.

Ys, Kesava Krsna dasa.

Comment posted by Kesava Krsna dasa on September 28th, 2008

3

Hare Krishna. One example of how Srila Prabhupada (”Abhaya Caranaravinda Prabhu”) responded to deviations in the Gaudiya Matha after the disappearance of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada is described in Our Srila Prabhupada, A Friend to All, Early Contemporaries Remember Him. This part told by Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Goswami Maharaja:

“…Later Abhaya Caranaravinda Prabhu wrote another dramatic article — this time about some of the leaders in the Gaudiya Matha. The article explained how the institution was coming apart after Srila [bhaktisiddhanta] Prabhupada’s departure. Grihasthas were giving up their wives and loving others’ wives, and in the name of developing the mission, some were putting all the money collected into their own pockets. S

annyasis, even those who had been with their Prabhupada, were making buildings and sending all the money to their sons in their former homes to go to high school and university, or to go to England and America to study law and other things. He wrote about this situation and the first part was published in our Bhagavata-patrika and Gaudiya-patrika. At once a big storm broke out in the whole Gaudiya Mission.

Although only about three pages were printed, letters began to come from many Gaudiya Mathas.

“It was like a revolution. Our guru maharaja and Abhaya Caranaravinda Prabhu were talking and smiling very secretly together. Prabhu said, ‘We should publish more of it. Why not?’ Guru Maharaja was also in favor of publishing it. However many of the godbrothers exclaimed, ‘Oh, Kesava Maharaja, what are you doing, printing this? Then everyone will know and will criticize the Gaudiya Matha.

These are our private family matters.’ Even Pujyapada Srila Sridhara Maharaja, who was highly respected by all, was consulted. Many godbrothers came to Mathura at that time and Abhaya Caranaravinda Prabhu was residing here in our matha.

Srila Tirtha Maharaja andother devotees asked, ‘What are you going to do? If you print this then our present institution will be smashed.’ Guru Maharaja and Abhaya Caranaravinda Prabhu were smiling and asking each other, ‘Oh, what to do?’ But when requested by so many godbrothers they decided, ‘Later on we may publish the articles, but for now we should obey their orders.’”

Comment posted by Pandu das on September 29th, 2008

4

I find it that it would be very hard for me personally, if only I was a devotee, to find faults with other vaishnavas. In fact I think it should be a role of non-devotees who should do it instead of devotees… Vaishnavas are so exalted, it is impossible to see faults without being faulty.

It is the age of kali and naturally everyone is affected, but hardly a reason to minimize the power of devotional service, as if even visible faults are counteracted by the fire of devotional service to Krishna. Why would anyone be a fault finder to devotees?

I know that some may disagree with me, but it is better for a devotee to exaggerate the faults one see in ones own heart then to blow out of proportion faults of others. I would advise to follow the example of Srivasa Thakura - who was framed for worshiping devi, and he admitted to this ‘fall-down’, even he was not at fault. Jaya Srivasa Thakura ki? Jaya… Of course some say ‘do not apologize, it is the sign of weakness’, but vaishnavas want to be weak to attract mercy of Gauranga…

Comment posted by ccd on September 29th, 2008

5 Pandu Prabhu,

Certain aficianados of faultfinding also like to pick up on Srila Prabhupada’s less than glowing reports of the demise of the Gaudiya Math which failed to heed the call for a GBC body. Excerpts of historical accounts and pages of Chaitanya Charitamrta attest to these. However, Srila Prabhupada warned us: “I can criticise my Godbrothers; you cannot.”

If we wish to use the above material as something to follow, still we would be in contravention of the Godly quality of being, “averse to faultfinding,” (BG 16.1) which is expanded upon in the purport to include unneccessary correction of others.

If the above material is displayed to infer that Iskcon is experiencing the same dramatic storm that flattened the Gaudiya Math, with an excuse to let loose acrid vitriol on it’s members, then the results are already there on the web.

But why would Srila Prabhupada himself warn his followers of criticising, as if to contradict himself, or be inconsistent in philosophical values, as this material infers? Why did Srila Prabhupada beg for forgiveness from his Godbrothers in his last days? Does anyone think he wanted us to be at war with each other by leaving aside Godly qualities and assuming tamasic ones?

This type of material needs to be balanced against the far greater aggregate of his teachings, which are to help us elevate ourselves. We often see how certain devious thought patterns plough all their weight in gold on obscure statements or traits of behaviour, and build it into a deviant dead branch passing as the real thing.

Any intelligent devotee will not use the above material as a license to be a faultfinder, claiming to follow in Srila Prabhupada’s footsteps. If we read his books carefully, listen to his lectures and so on, while chanting Hare Krishna sincerely, the way forward is as clear as the Godly path.

When the sensitivity has waned and one looks for ‘excitement’ by way of faultfinding, one will discover any old pretext to barge in and assent, and the above material will add to the same battle worn artillery. In fact, it is a way of telling everyone: “Srila Prabhupada was a faultfinder. Let me be one too.” This is not cryptic language, just blatant misuse of the intelligence influenced by ignorance. Some would see this as an offence in itself.

Ys, Kesava Krsna dasa.

Sarva gattah · October 3, 2008

Comment posted by Kesava Krsna dasa on September 29th, 2008

6 I think Pandu Prabhu’s point (please correct me if I am wrong Prabhu), is that even when Srila Prabhupada had some good grounds for exposing some very serious problems within Gaudiya Matha, he and B.P. Kesava Maharaja agreed to abide by the orders of the other senior devotees who asked them not to.

Calling a thief a thief is not faultfinding (sometimes it has to be done), but people who are addicted to faultfinding will not hesitate to call honest devotees theives as well.

Such faultfinding is very dangerous for spiritual life, as we all know, and such addicted faultfinders are obviously the ones Kesava Krishna Prabhu is talking about. (Right Kesava Krishna Prabhu? I think we all know the kind of statements you mean.)

CCd’s proposal is the best policy. As far as possible, we should not listen to a Vaisnava be vilified, let alone participate in such personal attacks. Why is it so important to these folks to do that? It won’t be good for them, nor will it be good for anyone to listen to them.

[Yet they seem to fancy themselves as muckraking heroes. It only makes them feel like bigger heroes if we react and try to muzzle them. We should as far as possible adopt the policy of “pouring in more milk”, so as not to get our own hands inky. Their half-truths and outright lies and slanders will shrivel up when exposed to the sunshine of real Krishna consciousness.]

ISKCON of today is not suffering from the kind of problems the Gaudiya Math experienced in Pandu’s example.

There were some serious problems in the 1980s, and again when Harikesa fell in 1998, but today I see a lot of depth of maturity and realization among ISKCON’s leaders, and a breadth of many talented devotee-leaders who are helping ISKCON push forward.

Prabhupada apparently agreed to suppress his own “revolutionary” writings at the behest of senior Gaudiya Math leaders. “Let us obey their orders.” And he was legitimately calling attention to real derelictions of duty, malfeasance, embezzlement and worse. Those who want to expose some perceived wrongdoings should probably learn from the example cited by Pandu, and consult with trusted leaders first.

We do not need to create Stalinist regimes of enforced official worship and suppression of dissent. The real light of Prabhupada’s enlightened disciples will drive away (or convert) all the angry, faultfinding discontents. Many are just misguided, weak devotees who need to be befriended and enlightened.

Comment posted by Akruranatha on September 30th, 2008

7

But aside from the Sisupal-like blasphemers that I think Kesava Krishna is writing about, there is a more subtle kind of fault-finding that holds us back, when we start worrying about how other devotees are doing their service, and start criticizing it, or trying to change their ways.

Unless it is really our responsibility to train or direct the way someone else is preaching, why should we worry so much about how they are doing it?

If we think it can be done better another way, we should just set a good example ourselves. Or we might make a humble suggestion in private to express our concerns directly, but be prepared to accept that the other devotee may have another view.

[After all, we are individuals and do not lose our individuality as we advance in Krishna consciousness. We want “independent thoughtful men.” We should renounce our desire to bring other devotees under our own control. It may get us in trouble.]

It is not our duty to be the “critic” of what is the best way to serve Krishna. We might not know how some other plan or strategy is going to work. The internal energy may be dictating different methods to different devotees. Let’s hope they surprise us with their success.

I am sorry I am being so abstract, rather than giving concrete examples. If I started giving concrete examples it might sound like I was criticizing and faultfinding those involved in the examples, which is not my intention.

Mainly I am just pointing to the general principle that different devotees are inspired in different ways, and they should gravitate naturally toward others with whom they can work favorably, and focus on doing something positive for preaching, rather than spend their energy trying to stop other devotees from doing things differently.

We could benefit from more of a “live and let live” attitude. Not that we should be unconcerned about each other’s spiritual well being, but even then, if we want to instruct someone, we have to be smart about how we do it so it will likely be effective. It can be another kind of sense gratification to instruct someone carelessly.

Sometimes divisive politics and personality conflicts unnecessarily arise in the society of devotees, due to our mistaken idea that it has become our duty (or we have earned the “right”) to criticize other devotees. We should be open to the idea that we might be wrong, they might be right, and it might be none of our business.

Comment posted by Akruranatha on September 30th, 2008

8

The reason I responded to the Gaudiya Math example is because Srila Prabhupada’s God brothers often bare the brunt of our comparisons between the relative stability within Iskcon and that of the gaudiya Matha. And this example is frequently used by proponents of lower taste devotee shaming.

Yes, Akruranatha Prabhu, I have noticed how in recent comments to other articles even, where some devotees express misunderstanding of my intentions, you come to the rescue to put matters into perspective. There is no exception here either. Your legal mind can gauge the direction and yet make it inclusive too, to encourage others. So I appreciate your comments, however much you have to say.

CCD prabhu’s way forward is the ideal, but how many will agree? How many agree to what I am saying? How many agree with vaisnava behaviour in the real world? “Come on oh dasa…get real…it’s Kali-yuga…a crook can be named and shamed,” but where does the identification of the crook and honest devotee begin and end?

An honest devotee is a crook to some, yet it feeds a very hostile environment in which there seems to be no clear cut ideology in terms of criticism and the rest. While we strive to uplift and integrate finer aspects of vaisnava culture into our lives, the challenges put forth by those advocating some hard-nosed realism causes ideological dissent.

But however wide the gap is between devotees of differing shades of interpretation of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, whatever anybody does in one quarter will be acutely judged by another, and it continues. Srila Prabhupada distanced himself from the ruins of the then Gaudiya Math to go it alone and begin a new chapter in vaisnava history.

In spite of the varied differences between devotees, we do not have the luxury of distancing ourselves, but rather stay to unite, which is more luxurious. But come rain or hail, fire and brimstone, only the sincere chanting of Hare Krishna will set our own unique paths towards perfection. At least along the way, perhaps it was a worthwhile cause to alert of the dangers of publicly hounding the honest devotees. Other than that, we have to be resigned to our fate determined by our innermost desires. Perhaps someone more qualified can take up the cause.

Ys, Kesava Krsna dasa.

Comment posted by Kesava Krsna dasa on September 30th, 2008

9

Dear Prabhus,

The one point I especially want to make in supporting your concerns is this: those who have either written books or placed comments on the internet that are uncomplementary have done the greatest disservice.

My daughter, doing some research on a paper for college, looked up Arotika & Srila Prabhupad and was mortified to see what trash come up on the internet. So damned you are if you have been contributors to harsh comments of a crow-like nature. Whatever one’s self-righteous purposes are in placing those comments in print or on the internet, you cannot retract those. They are “out there” and the venom cannot be extracted from the media.

So, be thoughful and kind. Krishna is in your heart and is witnessing your every thought and choice. He will sanction if you become qualified to enter Goloka Vrindaban, or if you prefer, if you wish to journey into hellish conditions of existence.

I therefore caution those with critical hearts and minds to restrict your activities with discussions in “conversation only”. Once you spew hurtful arguments into the internet or in print, you earn a degree you may wish you never had, however clever it sounds to some.

I know the heart of Srila Prabhupad. He expressed it to me. He criticized me when I was wrong. I can tell you this: Srila Prabhupad overlooked karma to engage his disciples in bhakti. If you follow this example, you will be counted amongst the swan-like devotees who will welcome you into their company in the higher planes of existence, even as we also must be welcomed into Goloka by such well-wishers.

Travel carefully, thoughtfully, and let negative thoughts go. That is discrimination. Srila Rupa Goswami recommends that we accept everything positive for the service of the Lord and His devotees, and reject that which is unfavorable. I hope this helps some. If someone wants to criticize someone, let them criticize me…I shall appeal to Krishna that you have insulted a non-devotee and that He might therefore forgive you.

Pusta Krishna das

Comment posted by pustakrishna on September 30th, 2008

10

Pusta Krishna Prabhu,

my ignorant self does not understand this point:

“Srila Prabhupad overlooked karma to engage his disciples in bhakti.”

Please, can you explain?

Sorry for my ignorance.

Thank you.

Comment posted by Namacarya das on October 1st, 2008

11

“Yes, Akruranatha Prabhu, I have noticed how in recent comments to other articles even, where some devotees express misunderstanding of my intentions, you come to the rescue to put matters into perspective. . . So I appreciate your comments, however much you have to say.”

Thanks for this warm expression. It means a lot to me. I appreciate your comments and articles, too, Kesava Krishna Prabhu. Please keep them coming.

And all of you readers and writers. Please keep it up. I really appreciate all the devotees who comment here, and the editors who make this site possible.

I don’t know what it is, but I have this itch to talk on the internet with devotees. It is like I am a columnist on deadline and I have to say something on Dandavats every day. [And, contrary to popular belief, they do not always publish everything I say. Thank God!] :-)

But mainly, I want to interact with what other devotees are writing and saying, to focus in on what they write, try to appreciate what they mean, and show that I have understood by giving some (hopefully coherent) response.

Communication is a normal human drive. Communication in writing can be more rewarding, sometimes, than just talking (where people can be prone to interrupt, misunderstand, or change the subject before the point has been satisfactorily made.)

I spend my days communicating with opposing counsel and with judges, mostly striving to “win” for my clients (there is so much hypocrisy and double-talk involved), and also with clients who are often in anxiety (litigation can be hell). I would rather have nice, favorable communication with Krishna’s beloved devotees, and dovetail this communication impulse into something positive.

I think part of why the internet is full of such foul, offensive material is that we devotees have not been very good at communicating with one another. Maybe I am being naive, but I think some of the schisms and ignorant finger-pointing and counter-cursing could have been avoided through careful, deliberate communication between honest, well-wishing, friendly devotees.

Those who have gone off the deep end into outlandish, vituperative slander are hard for me to understand. How did they get that way? What made them so bitter? Did we somehow participate, like Dr. Frankenstein, in creating this monster? How did we lose their friendship? Can we win it back? They mostly seem like crude, coarse people, but do we have a duty to them, at least to try?

Comment posted by Akruranatha on October 1st, 2008

12

As Pusta Krishna Prabhu correctly says, there is so much bad stuff infiltrating the internet that thousands of hapless souls can be put off from taking genuine steps forward towards Krishna. If a vaisnava is one who instils Krishna consciousness in others, can all those negative diatribes aimed at honest devotees be the work of vaisnavas? It is a great disservice indeed.

But with a twist of logic many will assert that this appeal to avoid faultfinding is the doing of a special kind of paranoia; a ploy to keep all traces of dissent well hidden within the minds of complainants, which is an abuse of power. While it is true, a megalomaniacal leader can thrive in a climate of fear, these types of leadership models are not in vogue within Iskcon. Besides, there is ample recourse for complaints within proper structures; we have our checks and balance systems in place.

So the need to avoid faultfinding is rather an inbuilt self defence mechanism if you like. At least for most spiritual practitioners the training in vaisnava etiquette and self-discipline are required to ensure steady progress. Once a certain level of affection has developed towards fellow devotees in true friendship, and appreciating all devotees, then to hear or to engage in faultfinding, becomes a very distasteful proposition. A hearty measure of humility is the basis for such healthy respect.

Having reached this level does not mean the faculty of discrimination has vanished. Rather it is heightened to the degree that no spiritual gain is derived from baseless indiscrimination, and so the needs for cultured resolutions to problems are the order of the day.

Still, having said all this, some attempted smart retorting will fill the gaps of certain web pages with howls of, “This is paranoia gone despotic! Even Caligula would make a tame alternative…anything but!” It is sad to say that such proliferation is quite widespread, as if to reduce the honest devotees to a minority. Yes, this is very sad.

Ys, Kesava Krsna dasa.

Comment posted by Kesava Krsna dasa on October 1st, 2008

suchandra · October 3, 2008

Comment posted by Kesava Krsna dasa on September 29th, 2008


6

Well although Kesava Krsna Prabhu looks like a really young man, he should know that it is mainly the GBC who reports about falldowns and suspended gurus. In case of Dhanurdhar Swami and Umapati Swami it was also the GBC who made different postings. In case of HH Satsvarupa Swami, it is he himself who is posting his thoughts if he is a bonafide spiritual master or not http://www.sdgonline.org/news.html .

In sum it is the GBC who causes all this faultfinding, who otherwise would know about all this without the GBC reporting it?

suchandra · October 3, 2008

Btw, let's pray for SDG!

September 16, 4:04 P.M.

I made out a Living Will and a Medical Power of Attorney, which are required by the hospital for my operation. In the Living Will, I said I would like my body cremated and the ashes buried in Mayapura. I would like to have one of those little monuments like the other sannyasis have and be buried alongside TKG, Sridhara Swami, Bhaktitirtha Maharaja, Gour Govinda Maharaja, and the rest. For the purposes of being specific, I said I would like to die in Vrndavana, but I’m really not sure of that. Maybe I could pass away in Bhaktitirtha Swami’s quarters in Gita-nagari. I’ll see how I feel if I get a good warning of the end. The Will also says that I “request that I be allowed to die and not be kept alive by artificial means... including cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR), etc., etc..... Death is as much a reality as birth, growth, maturity and old age — it is the one certainty. I do not fear death as much as I fear the indignity of deterioration and hopeless pain... I ask that a tape playing the holy names of Lord Krishna, sung or spoken by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, be played close to my ear constantly, or transcendental sound vibrations such as Srimad-Bhagavatam be mercifully administered to me without cessation up till the moment of my death. It is most essential that I be surrounded by Vaisnava-devotees of Lord Krishna as much as possible.” I appointed two devotees to make decisions to administer or refuse medical treatment, food or liquid should I become incapable of making a decision.

The lady who notorized the documents for us said, “I hope you never have to use them.”

Bhaktitirtha Swami’s passing away lasted for months. He gave lectures, wrote emails on the Internet, had lots of personal meetings with visitors — came closer to Krishna — and suffered. He had Radhanatha Swami as a special friend staying with him at Gita-nagari and visiting him every day. His personal attendants went through roller coasters of emotions as they watched his body wasting away, cancer with a partly amputed leg, broken collar bone... I spoke to him on the phone on a weekly basis. We restored our intimate friendship. He said he prayed to become purified and to take on the karma of others, and then his cancer began. He died in good surroundings, as indicated in my living will.

My operation tomorrow is not a serious thing. But I have to fast from midnight until about 3:00 or 4:00 P.M. the next day. Fasting isn’t recommended for migraineurs. I have to go into the hospital at 11:15 A.M., and the procedure won’t begin until 1:00 P.M. They have to take x-rays (to make sure the kidney stone is still there), and I have go to through other pre-op steps. It will be an inconvenient day, but they say I won’t feel pain until it’s over (unless I get a headache).

7:32 P.M.

It was a long day in the hospital. We arrived there at 11:15 A.M. and didn’t get out until 4:00 or 5:00 P.M. The first thing I had to do was get x-rays to make sure that the large kidney stone was still there. Then I went immediately into a small compartment, where I lay down in a bed on wheels. First I was told to take off all my clothes except my socks and put on a operating gown. Then I lay down, and three nurses came in the room and busied themselves with preparations for my procedure. They asked me various questions. I was repeatedly asked whether this was the first time I had undergone this procedure, and they asked other questions that I had answered before. Then they stuck the IV needle into a vein in the back of my right hand. After some more preliminaries, they all left me to lie there for forty-five minutes alone with Baladeva. He read to me for awhile and we talked. Finally it was past 1:00 and time for me to go into the operating room. When we went through the swinging doors, Baladeva had to stay behind. Then I was asked more questions and told that as soon as my doctor arrived, we would go into the operating room and the procedure would begin. I waited some more in the bed, and finally the doctor showed up. She told me what to expect, and we rolled into the large operating room. There I had to get out of my bed and lie down on a platform, which was next to the machine that pulverizes the kidney stone. They told me they had taken more x-rays and had crosshairs for an exact location of the target. They said the machine would pound it three thousand times and smash it into smithereens. They said I might experience black and blue bruises, and even bleeding as a result of it, so I should expect that. Then they put the “medicine” or sedative into the IV, and I don’t remember anything after that .

The procedure lasted over an hour and consisted of loud poundings, none of which I heard. The next thing I remember was I woke up, and I thought I was waking up from an afternoon nap in the yellow submarine. “It’s over,” they said, and I was wheeled out into another room, where I had to go through “phase 2,” which was recuperation from the operation and the sedative. I felt wide awake and felt great. I had no pain in my back and felt ready to go home. But they said I had to wait. A nurse gave me a cup of apple juice to drink — the first food or liquid I had taken since 6:30 the previous night. It tasted delicious. After I underwent phase 2, they wheeled me back to the original compartment where I had undressed. I was allowed to dress, but there we discovered a disastrous event. Baladeva had misplaced my dentures. They had a closet to put them in, but I thought it would be safer to give them to Baladeva to hold. He had put them in his book bag and had somehow lost them. He retraced his steps to the cafeteria, the gift shop, looked through trash cans, our car parked outside, but could not find them. The nurse checked a few places also and commisserated with us.

I said to Baladeva, “I am very angry at you. Do you know what this means?” He looked very forlorn and was determined to keep searching. He said there was one place left, and that was a Latino bodega where he had done some shopping while I was in the operation room. He bought some plantains there. He said if it wasn’t there, he would bring me home and then come back to the hospital and make a more thorough search. The box the dentures were in had my name and phone number on it, so there was some hope there. With little hope, he entered the bodega and in a few minutes came out smiling and holding the box. He said that they didn’t speak English in there but when he walked in, their faces brightened, and the man flapped his hands to indicate a set of teeth. I told Baladeva that he had been on the s_ _ _t list in my mind for doing this, but now he was forgiven. During the car ride home, I punched him several times on the arm to vent my anger and pleasure at recovering the dentures. The denture loss overwhelmed the success of the operation. They gave us a lot of prescriptions for pain, nausea, antibiotics, and other things to get us through the next few days. We don’t know for sure if the whole stone was broken up, but we will discover that as I urinate over the next few days. But from my point of view, it seemed to be an easy thing to go through, except for the long waits and the suspense at the end of the day whether we would recover the dentures. Now I’m back home with orders to drink two full glasses of liquid every hour. Of course I finished chanting my rounds on returning and said my gayatri.

September 17, 8:58 A.M.

We’ve quit reading The Sun Also Rises, by Ernest Hemingway, at mealtimes. Baladeva dubbed it, “The Diary of a Barfly.” It’s about a group of American expatriates who are always drinking liquor in the Parisian cafes and then wandering down to Spain to see the bullfights, and all of them enamored by a floozy named Lady Brett Ashley. The characters and action are superficial. It’s amazing that the literary critics say, “The Sun Also Rises is one of Ernest Hemingway’s masterpieces... and helped to establish Hemingway as one of the greatest writers of the twentieth century.” We’ve switched to Charles Dickens’ Hard Times and find it much more rewarding. From the Introduction by Karen Odden: “Set amid smokestacks and factories, Charles Dickens’ Hard Times is a blistering portrait of Victorian England as it struggles with the massive economic turmoil brought on by the Industrial Revolution.... Full of suspense, humor and tenderness, Hard Times is a brilliant defense of art in an age of mechanism.” The whole treatment is more civil and moral than Hemingway, and Dickens is a master of English prose.

9:05 A.M.

Free Write

My japa at the beach this morning was good. I have been feeling too tired to vibrate the mantra from my chest, but today I was hearty, and they were coming out loud and clear. I was moving toward attention to the mahamantra. I don’t know if this was just a matter of physical strength, but I hope it keeps up. When I’m fatigued, I tend to think vigorous chanting will bring on exertion headaches. When I am chanting strong, it’s like another person is with me, pushing out the prayers. Nine rounds streamed out in this fashion, and then it was time to feed the seagulls and return to the house. I’ll see if I can keep it up for the remainder.

Good health is so important for bhajana. You can read attentively and study what you read. And partly it’s determination, moral concentration. I want to finish my rounds and prepare sections of the Bhagavad-gita for Italy.

I need to undergo more x-rays to see if the operation was successful in destroying the kidney stone and then go to a postoperation appointment with the doctor on Octobert 6. My urine is red now, and a few pieces or sand are coming out, but no pain. It seems I was lucky. Last night, in saying goodnight to Baladeva, I sarcastically said, “Thanks for finding my dentures.” He replied, “It proves once again that Krishna is God.” Dattatreya just told me that the whole thing shook Baladeva up so much he couldn’t sleep last night. He said it put the fear of God into him when I looked at him and told him I was angry with him.

A disciple of mine wrote to me last January and told me her relationship with me was no longer the same. She had lost the “innocence” of the guru-disciple bond. She was hurt and disappointed that I fell and that I waited for years to tell the full, unvarnished truth about it. Yesterday she wrote me a more comforting letter. She says she still thinks of me with affection on a human and personal level and reads my online journal and thinks of me often. I wrote her back that perhaps with time, she will find more forgiveness and our relationship will become closer. But the letter was sweet and a relief. I wish all the disaffected disciples would respond as she did.

I continue reading and enjoying Resting at Mendocino. I’m probably the most favorable reader of my own books. They take you on a ride, and I’m surprised on rereading them how Krishna conscious they are. I only wish more people read them. The ISKCON world prefers the books I used to write, before my more free style. But I can’t turn back and write the way I used to. I have to write what interests me and gives me more juice, although all within the parampara.

The people at Millford Hospital were all so nice and friendly, even the janitors said “hello” in greeting. The whole place has a homely atmosphere, with all the doctors and nurses displaying excellent and genuine bedside manner. I couldn’t help but feel these were good people, even though they are not devotees of Krishna. There is a lot of goodness in the world, and “good” people. We should not be fanatical and dislike them, even though in ignorance they have bad habits. My day at the hospital could have been an ordeal but was made pleasant by contact with all the friendly people, who made every effort to make me comfortable.

September 18, 11:16 A.M.

Maitreya Muni said to Vidura that because of his attempt by inquiries, the transcendental pastimes of the Lord were becoming newer and newer at every moment. He considered the company of Vidura most desirable because his association accelerated dormant propensities for devotional service. Maitreya said, “Let me now begin speaking on the Bhagavata Purana, which was directly spoken to the great sages by the Personality of Godhead for the benefit of those who are entangled in extreme miseries for the sake of very little pleasure.” Sri Maitreya Muni, out of compassion for the suffering people in the world, proposed to speak on the Srimad-Bhagavatam. He said that some time ago, Sanat-kumara, accompanied by other great sages, inquired exactly like you about the truths regarding Vasudeva, the Supreme, from Lord Sankarsana, who is seated at the bottom of the universe. The boy sages had come down from the highest planets to the lowest, on the water of the Ganges, and therefore the hair on their heads was wet. The Ganges is the only celestial river which flows throughout the universe, and great sages travel all over the universe via this sacred river. The four Kumaras, headed by Sanat-kumara, glorified the Lord with selected words full of affection and love. At that time, Lord Sankarsana, with His thousands of raised hoods, began to radiate an effulgence from the glowing stones on His head. (SB 3.8.6.) Lord Sankarsana there spoke the meaing of Srimad-Bhagavatam to Sanat-kumara, and Sanat-kumara in his turn, when inquired of by Sankhyayana Muni, explained Srimad-Bhagavatam as he had heard it from Sankarsana. When Sankhyayana was describing the glories of the Lord in terms of Srimad-Bhagavatam, it so happened that Maitreya’s spiritual master, Parasara, and Brhaspati both heard him. And so Maitreya, having heard Srimad-Bhagavatam from Parasara, decided to describe it to Vidura. So Srimad-Bhagavatam was being narrated from time immemorial through the disciplic succession, even before the time of Vyasadeva. The so-called historians calculate the Puranas to be only a few hundred years old, but factually, the Puranas existed from time immemorial, before all historical calculations by the mundaners and speculators.

“At that time, when the three worlds were submerged in water, Garbhodakasaya Visnu was alone, lying on His bedstead, the great snake Ananta, and although He appeared to be in slumber in His own internal potency, free from the action of the external energy, His eyes were not completely closed” (SB 3.8.10). The subtle matter of creation, on which the Lord’s attention was fixed, was agitated by the material mode of passion, and thus the subtle form of creation pierced through His abdomen. This took the shape of the bud of a lotus flower generated from the Personality of Visnu, and it illuminated everything, like the sun and dried up the vast waters of devastation. Into that universal lotus flower Lord Visnu personally entered as the Supersoul, and when it was thus impregnated with all the modes of material nature, Lord Brahma appeared. Born out of the lotus flower, Lord Brahma could not see the world, although he was situated in the whorl. He therefore circumambulated all of space and achieved four heads, but he could not perfectly understand the creation, the lotus, or himself. A human being, or even a demigod, is so limited in his capacity that without the help of the Supreme he can hardly understand the mystery of the will of the Lord in terms of creation. In his ignorance, Lord Brahma contemplated as to who he was and why he was situated on the top of this lotus and why it had sprouted. He thought there must be something downwards, and so he entered the water through the channel of the stem of the lotus. But in spite of entering the stem and going nearer to the navel of Visnu, he could not trace out the root. Being unable to achieve the desired destination, he stopped his searching and came back again to the top of the lotus. Then, controlling his mind, he concentrated his mind on the Supreme Lord. In the purport, Prabhupada writes, “Samadhi involves concentrating the mind upon the supreme cause of all, even if one is unaware of whether His actual nature is personal, impersonal or localized. Concentration of the mind on the Supreme is certainly a form of devotional service” (SB 3.8.21, purport). At the end of Brahma’s one hundred years, when his meditation was complete, he developed the required knowledge and could see the Supreme within himself. He saw on the water the gigantic lotuslike white bedstead, the body of Sesa-naga, on which the Personality of Godhead was lying alone. In a purport, Prabhupada writes, “The panoramic beauty of nature, which strikes one with wonder, may be taken as a perverted reflection of the transcendental body of the Lord. One who is therefore attracted by the beauty of the Lord is no longer attracted by the beauty of material nature, although he does not minimize its beauty” (SB 3.8.24, purport). The Lord’s transcendental body was unlimited in length and breadth and occupied the three planetary systems. His body was self-illuminated by unparalleled dress and was properly ornamented. “He also acknowledged the service of the devotees and vanquished their distress by His beautiful smile” (SB 3.8.27). There is continuous transcendental competition between the Lord and His devotees by such reciprocation of service and acknowledgement. Lord Brahma was overwhelmed by the beauty of Lord Visnu, and he simultaneously glanced over the creation. He saw the lake in Lord Visnu’s navel, the lotus flower, as well as the devastating water, the drying air and the sky. Being surcharged with the mode of passion, Lord Brahma became inclined to create, and he offered his respectful prayers on the path of the creative mentality.

suchandra · October 4, 2008

Since this is all about Kurma das (ACBSP),  Kurma snafu update

There's More Than One Kurma dasa

1,015 Views / EMail This Post / Print This Post / Home » There's More Than One Kurma dasa

.. --> end .post-top -->.. --> the main section of the post goes here --> By Kurma dasa, the well known devotee cook from Australia

Dear Revered Devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

This is Kurma dasa, disciple of Srila Prabhupada, cookbook writer.

Is there more than one, you ask? Yes! There are a few Kurma dasas around. There is myself, there is Kurma dasa in Mayapur, and of course there is Kurma Rupa. There may be more. I often get sent letters meant for Kurma Rupa, and maybe he gets a few of mine.

Why am I telling you this? The reason is that for some time now I have been tolerating a certain other devotee called 'Kurma dasa' who has has been posting salacious, Ritvik-inspired criticisms on some other websites.

This 'other Kurma dasa' is Ken McCleod, who, some years ago, apparently visited New Vrindavan, took initiation from Kirtanananda Swami and received the name "Kurma dasa". He now lives in Melbourne. I know him well, he knows me, and he writes a lot of critical articles for these fault-finding websites. To avoid confusion as to the author's identity, I have asked him humbly to stop writing these articles under the name "Kurma dasa", but he declined. Maybe he figured he could get some mileage with that name, a bit like 'smoking ganja with someone else's hand', as Srila Prabhupada so aptly put it.

To make it worse (for me) 'the other Kurma dasa' often mentions Australia in his critiques, and this has further convinced a number of people that it is indeed Australia-based Kurma dasa the cook who is writing those articles.

I had approached the editor of one of those other websites and asked him to rectify the misunderstanding by mentioning, in the 'by-line' that the author was not me, Kurma dasa ACBSP. He appeared less than enthusiastic but graciously agreed, finally, to add, way down at the end of Ken's articles "Kurma das (not the chef)". However, many readers stop reading before they get to the end of Ken's stuff, perhaps thinking "boy that Kurma's really gone off the deep end…!".

Dear readers, recently some of these articles have been quoted and discussed on more mainstream, respectable (and respectful) websites, prompting a few of my friends to question me about my allegiances. They thought it was way out of character for me to criticise devotees in print, and I explained to them exactly what I am explaining to you here: I am not the author.

So dear worshipable devotees, please let it be known that I am not a follower of so-called 'Ritvik' doctrine, and I am not an envious fault-finder; I love the devotees. I am a loyal member of Iskcon. I aspire for the mercy and good wishes of all the disciples, grand-disciples and grand-grand-disciples of Srila Prabhupada, ad infinitum, and beg you to not think of me as an offender of the Vaisnavas.

At your service,

Kurma dasa

website: http://www.kurma.net/

blog: http://www.iskcon.net.au/kurma/

)

Ever wondered who the real Kurma dasa ACBSP is?

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