Is the Earth spinning around its axis, or not?

[Ananta Sesa]

I read in the book "Vedic Cosmology" by Danavir Goswami that the Earth actually is not spinning around its axis!

 

 

But if not, how then to explain all the satellites orbiting the Earth, which are programmed according to the Earths supposed spinning...?

 

And also astronauts who have gone to spaceflight missions, they all say that they could see the Earth spinning around its axis...

 

 

If the Earth is NOT spinning around its axis, it would mean that all the stars in the universe are circling around the Earth ones EVERY DAY...sounds really far out!!

 

 

I am a little bit in doubt, somebody who could clear this out?

 

I have no difficulty believing in the geocentric model, that the Earth actually is in the middle of the universe, and the Sun and the planets are circling around the Earth, but that the stars are circling around the Earth each and every day...

 

ANY COMMENTS?

[RamanaDasi]

Your point about satellites is perfectly reasonable.

 

But don't think that the geocentric model is the real model of the universe.

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Ananta Sesa,

 

It is well known now that Scientific cosmology is more correct than mythological cosmology. Many of the Scientific theories and facts are established beyong doubt,though many still remains to be proved. It is not wise to reject the established Scientific truths in favour of mythological views. Geocentric cosmology of the ancient age is proved to be wrong beyong doubt, just like flat earth is not true. Yet there are strong followers of the belief even now in Uk who believe eatrh is flat. They are called 'Flatners' Periodically they have seminors and discussions and the like

on this theme.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[theist]

LOL! Yes, of course the Earth is flat.

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Theist,

That is interesting . Are you a flatner? If you are not joking or talking metaphorically, can you give the reason for your conviction that earth is flat? I am curious to know what could be the reasoning for a flat earth doctrine.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[Amlesh]

 

Dear Ananta Sesa,

 

It is well known now that Scientific cosmology is more correct than mythological cosmology. Many of the Scientific theories and facts are established beyong doubt,though many still remains to be proved. It is not wise to reject the established Scientific truths in favour of mythological views. Geocentric cosmology of the ancient age is proved to be wrong beyong doubt, just like flat earth is not true. Yet there are strong followers of the belief even now in Uk who believe eatrh is flat. They are called 'Flatners' Periodically they have seminors and discussions and the like

on this theme.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

 

Vedas could not be moved by even 1 mm by so-called modern scientists for the past 5000 years.

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Amlesh,

 

I aggree on that with you. But I should qualify my agreement. Vedas , one should remember is not a book dealing with material world. It's domain is spiritual truth. And on that it is suprub. Science does not and cannot deal with spiritual realm and hence has not moved not even 1 nanometer ( forget of milimeter).

 

If we Keep in mind that Vedas are spiritual texts and words and discriptions of vedas have symbolic spiritual connotation and not to be interpreted literally in a material sense, there is no problem. But if we take words and description literally and impute material interpretation we go astry. If we are dealing with material world then veda is not to be consulted and Science should be resorted. If we are dealing with spiritual truths then Science text is not the appropriate one but Veda is appropriate. If we want to know god Science texts are useless. Vedic texts must be consulted But if we want to know the composition of water,(H2-O) then Science must be resorted Vedic description of Jala will not give us this material knowledge.

 

Vedic cosmology is not to be confused with material universe . Veda doesnot deal with matter at all. Everything has a spiritual hidden connotation. For example Fire in veda is not the physical fire. It's esoteric meaning is Prana . Sun of the gayatri mantra is not the physical sun (Hydrogen converting to Helium). That sun of veda is the spiritual sun The splender of God .

 

If we forget this fundamental principle and mix up the issues we go astry.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[Amlesh]

Sorry Kesavan, I did not read carefully the thread before sprouting my rubbish.

 

Anyways; it proved out to be fruitful for me. Actually I'm not from the science background; I've failed in all science subjects when I was a Kid... I had to choose the Commerce Side.

 

Now I'm a software engineer... it is the only thing scientific I have, but not much of a help when I read conversations between you and Bart.

 

But that has often arouse my quest to know more about modern science cocktail-ed with spirituality.

[Kulapavana]

 

I read in the book "Vedic Cosmology" by Danavir Goswami that the Earth actually is not spinning around its axis!

 

 

The movement of two objects can be described in many ways, depending on the reference point we chose. However, it is completely false to claim that heliocentric description is incorrect (Earth is spinning around its axis while spinning around the Sun) and that only Earth centred descriptions (Sun rotates around Earth) are true.

 

Danavir swami has no formal science training and most of what he writes is just a faith based religious propaganda.

[Ananta Sesa]

 

The movement of two objects can be described in many ways, depending on the reference point we chose. However, it is completely false to claim that heliocentric description is incorrect (Earth is spinning around its axis while spinning around the Sun) and that only Earth centred descriptions (Sun rotates around Earth) are true.

 

Danavir swami has no formal science training and most of what he writes is just a faith based religious propaganda.

But here is scientific proof, from the new book "Galileo was Wrong", that we in fact live in a geocentric world:

 

 

http://www.geocentrism.com/possible.htm

 

http://www.geocentrism.com/assumptions.htm

 

http://www.geocentrism.com/observations.htm

 

http://catholicintl.com/products/books/gwwprint.htm

 

http://reformation.org/stationary-earth.html

 

 

 

VIDEO: "Mysteries of the sacred Universe": (48 min)

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-538297875584368796

 

 

 

 

Heliocentrism is in fact only built on assumptions:

 

http://www.fixedearth.com/Assumptions.htm

 

 

 

 

Scientific reviews of the book "Galileo was Wrong":

 

 

"There exists no better exposition of the history and science of geocentrism. Very highly recommended and a must for all those interested in the issues surrounding geocentrism today"

 

- Gerardus Bouw, Ph.D., Astronomy

 

"In their over 700-page book, Drs. Sungenis and Bennett make a convincing case for the special and central position of the earth in the cosmos"

 

- Vincent Schmithorst, Ph.D., Physics

 

"Galileo Was Wrong is a work of monumental proportion which ranks, in my opinion, on a par with the meticulous observations of the Danish astronomer, Tycho Brahe, and the tireless efforts of Walter van der Kamp"

 

- Neville Jones, Ph.D., Physics

 

"In their new book, Sungenis and Bennett take no prisoners...Now that the Enlightenment is over, it was inevitable that the system upon which it was based should come in for the powerful critique which Sungenis and Bennett provide. Not inevitable, however, was the brilliant way they provide it"

 

- E. Michael Jones, Ph.D., ed. Culture Wars

 

"Sungenis and Bennett examine the anomalies that arise from the Copernican model...A must read for those who can set aside prejudices and a priori assumptions"

 

- Joseph Strada, Ph.D. Aerospace Engineering

 

"The book Galileo Was Wrong forcefully addresses the history, science, theological, philosophical, and worldview implications of our place in the universe"

 

- Russell T. Arndts, Ph.D., Chemistry, LSU

 

"It is with pleasure that I remand this volume into the hands of the reader"

 

- Martin Selbrede, Chief Scientist, Unipixel

 

"Robert Sungenis and Robert Bennett have done a great service to science and to men of good will. Those who see the universe as the handiwork of the benevolent God need no longer be subservient to fairy tales"

 

- Anonymous, Ph.D., MIT

 

"Galileo Was Wrong is a model for the kind of scholarship we need today -- intellectual understanding not as an end in itself, but as a commitment to reality, infused with moral passion, love for the earth, common sense and philosophical sensitivity"

 

- Caryl Johnston, M. Ed., Jefferson Medical College

[Ananta Sesa]

.

Btw, anybody who knows the REASON why all the planets (maybe with the exception of the Earth) and stars are spinning around their axis?

[theist]

 

Dear Theist,

That is interesting . Are you a flatner? If you are not joking or talking metaphorically, can you give the reason for your conviction that earth is flat? I am curious to know what could be the reasoning for a flat earth doctrine.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

 

No no I am defintely not a Flatner. I was being sarcastic. This is the smiley that signifies sarcasm.

 

There was a time in history when everyone thought the Earth was the center of the universe and everything revolved around the Earth. That has been proven false so convincingly that only the blindest of misplaced faith would cause someone to speak otherwise.

 

Those that rely on blind faith usually insist that others adopt the same blind faith method as they as the only way to approach scripture. IMO this only results in the blind leading the blind and both falling into the ditch.

 

Becoming God conscious does not mean one has to put aside his intelligence rather intelligence applied properly helps one advance in the realization of the truth.

 

I call this 'sighted faith'.

[bhaktajan]

So many beautiful women--Superb beauty whose magnificant beauty rivals the majesty of Cosmic affairs to the point where even the Superintendents of Universal Management are bewitched by the very thought and potential for a meeting of the minds and bodies with such Demigodesses of Beauty incarnate [and maybe other femine opulences into the bargain?]

 

--I Wager you have not a chance in this life time to make the intimate association of such Symbols of Splendour except through what we have read and been told by so-called authorities of dubious origins and motives.

 

If you can not verify something as True with your own two eyes and empiric senses then you can only speculate and dream about it theoretically.

 

You can only sail the seas and cross the mountains along the safe paths lest pirates of obsurity commendere your liberties.

 

At least we can reflect on the vastness of space and agree that the planets are like dust whirling around like a tornado around a central axis and that we denizens on this speck-of-dust-of-a-planet are small and limited that almost all science and the cosmos is beyond our ordinary mundane need(s).

 

My advise is get back to work before the Boss sees that you're posting stuff on Audarya, oh oh! speak of the devil ...

[AncientMariner]

I believe the earth is simultaneously flat and round but I don't know for sure.

[Sarva gattah]

 

Dear Ananta Sesa,

 

It is well known now that Scientific cosmology is more correct than mythological cosmology. Many of the Scientific theories and facts are established beyong doubt,though many still remains to be proved. It is not wise to reject the established Scientific truths in favour of mythological views. Geocentric cosmology of the ancient age is proved to be wrong beyong doubt, just like flat earth is not true. Yet there are strong followers of the belief even now in Uk who believe eatrh is flat. They are called 'Flatners' Periodically they have seminors and discussions and the like

on this theme.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

Excellent understanding. The "Vedic Cosmology" that claims that the Earth actually is not spinning around its axis, is misunderstood and based on a the immature ISKCON pioneering endevours to understand this material creation, which is more sentiment (blind faith) than FULL scientific regarding the Earth axis, Moon and Sun issues.

ISKCON will have to face these facts in a very clear scientific way sooner or later BEFORE THEY BUILD THE vEDIC PLANETARIUN. Man also went to the moon in 1969 however, they never entered the ethereal world of that heavenly planet.

It is also nonsense to believe that the Moon we see is further away from the earth than the Sun, such superstitious nonsense only keeps man under the thumb of dictatorial religious leaders.

It's all a crazy selfish material dream anyway, maybe there are unlimited parallel universe with every possible scenario happening simultaneously, for example, in one universe, a bus hit you, and in this universe, the bus missed you. Maybe the Vedas were written in a parallel universe where the Sun IS closer than the moon.

Wow, it’s so easy to brainwash people.

[Sarva gattah]

So the conclusion is we are presently not seeing the planet for how it really looks

What would this world look like if we could see the subtle material world of ethereal bodies as well, where the souls in that sub-space dimension are contained in ethereal material vessels, that takes up more of the mahat-tattva than our secular gross world of biological bodies?

Even though there is still a lot to learn, the following gives some insight into how the universe really looks. I believe there is still a lot of work to be 'discovered' within the Vedas on this subject and the author, Sadaputa Dasa (Richard L. Thompson) has still not been able to clearly explain to those who just do not naively or blindly accept his explanation of the Universe. For example, many will rightly say, there is no way that the Sun we see in the sky, is closer than the moon, at least on the secular level that our biological senses are on and can only comprehend, perceive and tune into.

Now that’s where the problem is, are we seeing the full picture of the universe? Even the material scientists say the majority of the universe is made up of dark matter that they have no idea what it is.

When Srila Prabhupada was discussing the fifth canto in Vrndavana with his disciples the verse spoke about 10,000 mile high mountains. Srila Prabhupada said,

“Yes, I have seen once when we were flying over the mountains of Europe.”

The devotees asked

“You mean the Alps?”

Srila Prabhupada said

“Yes”

The devotees started to repeatedly deny that such a mountain could exist because by now the scientists would certainly have found such a thing.

Finally Srila Prabhupada forcefully laid his hand down upon the table and roared “I HAVE SEEN! AND YOU CANNOT SEE!”

This is an important point, only the perfected realized soul can see the secular and subtle material realities simultaneously, and can also can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Sri Radha Krishna, the source of everyone and everything at every moment. Only advanced souls, who understand this, can see the multidimensional aspects of the universe like a 10,000-mile high mountain

We perceive with our biological bodies and its extended instrumentation of telescopic, radar and microwave instruments, to view the universe ‘we only can perceive’ that is made out of secular gross matter however, we are unable to see, feel, touch, with our gross biological senses, the rest of the multi dimensional universe that overlaps the same space.

Frankly, our material science is primitive because, like the old black and white TVs we could only view in Australia in the 1960s, we only could see part of the picture, we were not able to tune into the picture as it really is in colour, similarly we are only presently seeing the secular or gross material energy of biological species of life and are unable to see the material creation as it really is with where the living entity is housed in ethereal bodies within a subtle world.

The only way to really have a correct understanding of the material universe, or understand our position in the mahat-tattva, is to see the bigger picture of ALL THE material creation with its subtle and gross realities (heavenly planets, middle planets and hellish worlds and ghostly realms) THAT ARE ALL AROUND US. To do that, one must become a great devotee of the Lord. Only through devotional piety can such things be realized and not by material gross instruments.

Presently on this planet there is close to a billion mobile phones or cell phones as they call them in the US, with camera facilities. Such gross material devices will never tune into the subtle world of any kind. At John Lennon’s Mansion in England in 1970, Srila Prabhupada began waving his came around, non of the devotee new what was happening because they could not see what Prabhupada was seeing, which was annoying ghosts.

So the conclusion is we are presently not seeing the planet for what it really looks like, with its multidimensional and subtle realities as well as the biological level we perceive.

The following is an attempt to describe the material universe by Sadaputa Prabhu as it really looks, if we could see the subtle aspect of the material creation as well.

_

http://www.unitedindia.com/cosmology.htm

[Sarva gattah]

<CENTER>Ancient India's Contribution to Cosmology

 

The Cosmology of the Bhagavata Purana

By: Richard L. Thompson

An Overview

</CENTER>The inquisitive human mind naturally yearns to understand the universe and man’s place within it. Today scientists rely on powerful telescopes and sophisticated computers to formulate cosmological theories. In former times, people got their information from traditional books of wisdom. Followers of India’s ancient culture, for example, learned about the cosmos from scriptures like the Srimad-Bhagavatam, or Bhagavata Purana. But the Bhagavatam’s descriptions of the universe often baffle modern students of Vedic literature. Here Bhaktivedanta Institute scientist Dr. Richard Thompson suggests a framework for understanding the Bhagavatam’s descriptions that squares with our experience and modern discoveries.

Jambudvipa: The Srimad-Bhagavatam describes that the universe lies within a series of spherical shells which is divided in two by an earth plane called Bhu-mandala. A series of dvipas, or ‘islands,’ and oceans make up Bhu-mandala. In the center of Bhu-mandala is the circular ‘island’ of Jambudvipa (inset), whose most prominent feature is the cone-shaped Mount Meru. The main illustration here shows a closer view of Jambudvipa and the base of Mount Meru.

The Srimad-Bhagavatam presents an earth-centered conception of the cosmos. At first glance the cosmology seems foreign, but a closer look reveals that not only does the cosmology of the Bhagavatam describe the world of our experience, but it also presents a much larger and more complete cosmological picture. I’ll explain.

The Srimad-Bhagavatam’s mode of presentation is very different from the familiar modern approach. Although the Bhagavatam’s "Earth" (disk-shaped Bhu-mandala) may look unrealistic, careful study shows that the Bhagavatam uses Bhu-mandala to represent at least four reasonable and consistent models: (1) a polar-projection map of the Earth globe, (2) a map of the solar system, (3) a topographical map of south-central Asia, and (4) a map of the celestial realm of the demigods.

Caitanya Mahaprabhu remarked, "In every verse of Srimad-Bhagavatam and in every syllable, there are various meanings." (Caitanya-caritamrita, Madhya 24.318) This appears to be true, in particular, of the cosmological section of the Bhagavatam, and it is interesting to see how we can bring out and clarify some of the meanings with reference to modern astronomy.

Figure 1

 

 

When one structure is used to represent several things in a composite map, there are bound to be contradictions. But these do not cause a problem if we understand the underlying intent. We can draw a parallel with medieval paintings portraying several parts of a story in one composition. For example, Masaccio’s painting "The Tribute Money" (Figure 1) shows Saint Peter in three parts of a Biblical story. We see him taking a coin from a fish, speaking to Jesus, and paying a tax collector. From a literal standpoint it is contradictory to have Saint Peter doing three things at once, yet each phase of the Biblical story makes sense in its own context.

A similar painting from India (Figure 2) shows three parts of a story about Krishna. Such paintings contain apparent contradictions, such as images of one character in different places, but a person who understands the story line will not be disturbed by this. The same is true of the Bhagavatam, which uses one model to represent

 

different features of the cosmos.

Figure 2

 

The Bhagavatam Picture at First Glance

 

 

 

The Fifth Canto of the Srimad-Bhagavatam tells of innumerable universes. Each one is contained in a spherical shell surrounded by layers of elemental matter that mark the boundary between mundane space and the unlimited spiritual world.

The region within the shell (Figure 3) is called the Brahmanda, or "Brahma egg." It contains an earth disk or plane—called Bhu-mandala—that divides it into an upper, heavenly half and a subterranean half, filled with water. Bhu-mandala is divided into a series of geographic features, traditionally called dvipas, or "islands," varshas, or "regions," and oceans.

In the center of Bhu-mandala (Figure 4) is the circular "island" of Jambudvipa, with nine varsha subdivisions. These include Bharata-varsha, which can be understood in one sense as India and in another as the total area inhabited by human beings. In the center of Jambudvipa stands the cone-shaped Sumeru Mountain, which represents the world axis and is surmounted by the city of Brahma, the universal creator.

To any modern, educated person, this sounds like science fiction. But is it? Let’s consider the four ways of seeing the Bhagavatam’s descriptions of the Bhu-mandala.

 

 

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Figure 3

 

 

 

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Figure 4

 

 

 

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We begin by discussing the interpretation of Bhu-mandala as a planisphere, or a polar-projection map of the Earth globe. This is the first model given by the Bhagavatam. A stereographic projection is an ancient method of mapping points on the surface of a sphere to points on a plane. We can use this method to map a modern Earth globe onto a plane, and the resulting flat projection is called a planisphere (Figure 5). We can likewise view Bhu-mandala as a stereographic projection of a globe (Figure 6).

 

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</TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>Figure 5</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>Figure 6</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

In India such globes exist. In the example shown here (Figure 7), the land area between the equator and the mountain arc is Bharata-varsha, corresponding to greater India. India is well represented, but apart from a few references to neighboring places, this globe does not give a realistic map of the Earth. Its purpose was astronomical, rather than geographical.

 

<CENTER>

Figure 7</CENTER>Although the Bhagavatam doesn’t explicitly describe the Earth as a globe, it does so indirectly. For example, it points out that night prevails diametrically opposite to a point where it is day. Likewise, the sun sets at a point opposite where it rises. Therefore, the Bhagavatam does not present the naive view that the Earth is flat.

We can compare Bhu-mandala with an astronomical instrument called an astrolabe, popular in the Middle Ages. On the astrolabe, an off-centered circle represents the orbit of the sun—the ecliptic. The Earth is represented in stereographic projection on a flat plate, called the mater. The ecliptic circle and important stars are represented on another plate, called the rete. Different planetary orbits could likewise be represented by different plates, and these would be seen projected onto the Earth plate when one looks down on the instrument.

The Bhagavatam similarly presents the orbits of the sun, the moon, planets, and important stars on a series of planes parallel to Bhu-mandala.

Seeing Bhu-mandala as a polar projection is one example of how it doesn’t represent a flat Earth.

Bhu-mandala as a Map of the Solar System

Here’s another way to look at Bhu-mandala that also shows that it’s not a flat-Earth model.

Descriptions of Bhu-mandala have features that identify it as a model of the solar system. In the previous section I interpreted Bhu-mandala as a planisphere map. But now, we’ll take it as a literal plane. When we do this, it looks at first like we’re back to the naive flat Earth, with the bowl of the sky above and the underworld below.

The scholars Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechend carried out an intensive study of myths and traditions and concluded that the so-called flat Earth of ancient times originally represented the plane of the ecliptic (the orbit of the sun) and not the Earth on which we stand. Later on, according to de Santillana and von Dechend, the original cosmic understanding of the earth was apparently lost, and the Earth beneath our feet was taken literally as a flat plate. In India, the earth of the Puranas has often been taken as literally flat. But the details given in the Bhagavatam show that its cosmology is much more sophisticated.

Not only does the Bhagavatam use the ecliptic model, but it turns out that the disk of Bhu-mandala corresponds in some detail to the solar system (Figure 8). The solar system is nearly flat. The sun, the moon, and the five traditionally known planets—Mercury through Saturn—all orbit nearly in the ecliptic plane. Thus Bhu-mandala does refer to something flat, but it’s not the Earth.

<CENTER>

Figure 8</CENTER>One striking feature of the Bhagavatam’s descriptions has to do with size. If we compare Bhu-mandala with the Earth, the solar system out to Saturn, and the Milky Way galaxy, Bhu-mandala matches the solar system closely, while radically differing in size from Earth and the galaxy.

Furthermore, the structures of Bhu-mandala correspond with the planetary orbits of the solar system (Figure 9).

<CENTER>

Figure 9</CENTER>Figure 10

If we compare the rings of Bhu-mandala with the orbits of Mercury, Venus (Figure 10), Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, we find several close alignments that give weight to the hypothesis that Bhu-mandala was deliberately designed as a map of the solar system.

Until recent times, astronomers generally underestimated the distance from the earth to the sun. In particular, Claudius Ptolemy, the greatest astronomer of classical antiquity, seriously underestimated the Earth-sun distance and the size of the solar system. It is remarkable, therefore, that the dimensions of Bhu-mandala in the Bhagavatam are consistent with modern data on the size of the sun’s orbit and the solar system as a whole.

[see BTG, Nov./Dec. 1997.]

 

Jambudvipa as a Topographical Map of South-Central Asia

Jambudvipa, the central hub of Bhu-mandala, can be understood as a local topographical map of part of south-central Asia. This is the third of the four interpretations of Bhu-mandala. In the planisphere interpretation, Jambudvipa represents the northern hemisphere of the Earth globe. But the detailed geographic features of Jambudvipa do not match the geography of the northern hemisphere. They do, however, match part of the Earth.

Figure 11

Six horizontal and two vertical mountain chains divide Jambudvipa into nine regions, or varshas (Figure 11). The southernmost region is called Bharata-varsha. Careful study shows that this map corresponds to India plus adjoining areas of south-central Asia. The first step in making this identification is to observe that the Bhagavatam assigns many rivers in India to Bharata-varsha. Thus Bharata-varsha represents India. The same can be said of many mountains in Bharata-varsha. In particular, the Bhagavatam places the Himalayas to the north of Bharata-varsha in Jambudvipa (Figure 11).

A detailed study of Puranic accounts allows the other mountain ranges of Jambudvipa to be identified with mountain ranges in the region north of India. Although this region includes some of the most desolate and mountainous country in the world, it was nonetheless important in ancient times. For example, the famous Silk Road passes through this region. The Pamir mountains can be identified with Mount Meru and Ilavrita-varsha, the square region in the center of Jambudvipa. (Note that Mount Meru does not represent the polar axis in this interpretation.)

Other Puranas give more geographical details that support this interpretation.

Bhu-mandala as a Map of the Celestial Realm of the Devas

We can also understand Bhu-mandala as a map of the celestial realm of the demigods, or devas. One curious feature of Jambudvipa is that the Bhagavatam describes all of the varshas other than Bharata-varsha as heavenly realms, where the inhabitants live for ten thousand years without suffering. This has led some scholars to suppose that Indians used to imagine foreign lands as celestial paradises. But the Bhagavatam does refer to barbaric peoples outside India, such as Huns, Greeks, Turks, and Mongolians, who were hardly thought to live in paradise. One way around this is to suppose that Bharata-varsha includes the entire Earth globe, while the other eight varshas refer to celestial realms outside the Earth. This is a common understanding in India.

But the simplest explanation for the heavenly features of Jambudvipa is that Bhu-mandala was also intended to represent the realm of the devas. Like the other interpretations we have considered, this one is based on a group of mutually consistent points in the cosmology of the Bhagavatam.

First of all, consider the very large sizes of mountains and land areas in Jambudvipa. For example, India is said to be 72,000 miles (9,000 yojanas) from north to south, or nearly three times the circumference of the Earth. Likewise, the Himalayas are said to be 80,000 miles high.

 

 

<CENTER>

Figure 12</CENTER>People in India in ancient times used to go in pilgrimage on foot from one end of India to the other, so they knew how large India is. Why does the Bhagavatam give such unrealistic distances? The answer is that Jambudvipa doubles as a model of the heavenly realm, in which everything is on a superhuman scale. The Bhagavatam portrays the demigods and other divine beings that inhabit this realm to be correspondingly large. Figure 12 shows Lord Siva in comparison with Europe, according to one text of the Bhagavatam.

Figure 13

Why would the Bhagavatam describe Jambudvipa as both part of the earth and part of the celestial realm? Because there’s a connection between the two. To understand, let’s consider the idea of parallel worlds. By siddhis, or mystic perfections, one can take shortcuts across space. This is illustrated by a story from the Bhagavatam in which the mystic yogini Citralekha abducts Aniruddha from his bed in Dvaraka and transports him mystically to a distant city (Figure 13).

Besides moving from one place to another in ordinary space, the mystic siddhis enable one to travel in the all-pervading ether or to enter another continuum. The classical example of a parallel continuum is Krishna’s transcendental realm of Vrindavana, said to be unlimitedly expansive and to exist in parallel to the finite, earthly Vrindavana in India.

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Figure 14

 

 

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The Sanskrit literature abounds with stories of parallel worlds. For example, the Mahabharata tells the story of how the Naga princess Ulupi abducted Arjuna while he was bathing in the Ganges River (Figure 14). Ulupi pulled Arjuna down not to the riverbed, as we would expect, but into the kingdom of the Nagas (celestial snakelike beings), which exists in another dimension.

Mystical travel explains how the worlds of the devas are connected with our world. In particular, it explains how Jambudvipa, as a celestial realm of devas, is connected with Jambudvipa as the Earth or part of the Earth. Thus the double model of Jambudvipa makes sense in terms of the Puranic understanding of the siddhis.

 

 

Concluding Observations:

The Vertical Dimension in Bhagavata Cosmology

 

For centuries the cosmology of the Bhagavatam has seemed incomprehensible to most observers, encouraging many people either to summarily reject it or to accept it literally with unquestioning faith. If we take it literally, the cosmology of the Bhagavatam not only differs from modern astronomy, but, more important, it also suffers from internal contradictions and violations of common sense. These very contradictions, however, point the way to a different understanding of Bhagavata cosmology in which it emerges as a deep and scientifically sophisticated system of thought. The contradictions show that they are caused by overlapping self-consistent interpretations that use the same textual elements to expound different ideas.

Each of the four interpretations I’ve presented deserves to be taken seriously because each is supported by many points in the text that are consistent with one another while agreeing with modern astronomy. I’ve applied the context-sensitive or multiple-aspect approach, in which the same subject has different meanings in different contexts. This approach allows for the greatest amount of information to be stored in a picture or text, reducing the work required by the artist or writer. At the same time, it means that the work cannot be taken literally as a one-to-one model of reality, and it requires the viewer or reader to understand the different relevant contexts. This can be difficult when knowledge of context is lost over long periods of time.

In the Bhavagatam, the context-sensitive approach was rendered particularly appropriate by the conviction that reality, in the ultimate issue, is avak-manasam, or beyond the reach of the mundane mind or words. This implies that a literal, one-to-one model of reality is unattainable, and so one may as well pack as much meaning as possible into a necessarily incomplete description of the universe. The cosmology of the Bhagavata Purana is a sophisticated system of thought, with multiple layers of meaning, both physical and metaphysical. It combines practical understanding of astronomy with spiritual conceptions to produce a meaningful picture of the universe and reality.

Richard L. Thompson earned his Ph.D. in mathematics from Cornell University. He is the author of several books, of which Mysteries of the Sacred Universe is the most recent.

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[bhaktajan]

It is also nonsense to believe that the Moon we see is further believe that the Moon we see is further away from the earth than the Sun, such superstitious nonsense only keeps man under the under the thumb of dictatorial religious leaders ...

 

Like 700 Billion's Worth of dictatorships?

 

Since which World War and natural or Man-made catastrophe or congressional hearing have you come to believe that we can trust so-called learned men of Science?

 

Cheaters and the cheated with plenty of time to teach ettiquette to the labor classes.

[Kulapavana]

 

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Btw, anybody who knows the REASON why all the planets (maybe with the exception of the Earth) and stars are spinning around their axis?

 

movement of objects through space generates movement around their axis as well, primarily through gravitational and centrifugal forces. In space nothing is truly static and objects interact with one another through various forces: gravitational, electric, and magnetic. once an object is in general motion (has momentum) even minor outside forces will cause it to spin around it's axis.

[Sarva gattah]

 

It is also nonsense to believe that the Moon we see is further away from the earth than the Sun, such superstitious nonsense only keeps man under the under the thumb of dictatorial religious leaders ...

 

Like 700 Billion's Worth of dictatorships?

 

Since which World War and natural or Man-made catastrophe or congressional hearing have you come to believe that we can trust so-called learned men of Science?

 

Cheaters and the cheated with plenty of time to teach ettiquette to the labor classes.

 

Fully agree bhaktajan, material science is atheistic however, I cannot deny what I have experienced with technology, like when I visted the Parks radio telescope in central NSW, I saw for myself how a beacon placed on the moon during the moon landings of 1970 and recent unmaned moon landings, messurd the distance from the earth to the moon.

 

Did you know when the Wright Brothers first experienced flight in 1903, the headlines in the Catholic Newspaper condemned such a flight claiming if God meant for us to fly, he would of created us with wings.

 

We should seek answers and not just follow blindly

 

Both material and spiritual processess in this material world can be cleverly manipulated by the cheaters and cheated

[Kulapavana]

ANYBODY can see that the Moon is closer to Earth than Sun. Just observe the time when Sun and Moon are both simoultanously visible from Earth. Look at the pattern of light and shade on the Moon. You will see the part of the Moon illuminated by the Sun as well as the shaded area. If Moon was further away than Sun we would always see a full, or close to full, Moon. Simple geometric fact. Make an experiment with a light bulb and a ball to observe it directly. All ancient astronomers knew that, including those in India.