spreading lord shiva awareness across world

[balachandranv]

hi guys,

My name is v.balachandran who is one of the great bhakta of lord shiva.I am currently working.At the age of 12, i started learning vedas.I have gone to several temples like tiruvannamalai,sri kalahasti,tiruvanaikkaval,<wbr>kanchipuram etc... and much more to chant vedas.I want to create an awareness of lord shiva across the world.thats my dream.I thought of opening lord shiva madam like kanchi madam every where.generally,all the lord shiva bhaktas and people can come and chant vedas,have bhajans etc.v can even prepare food and give it to the public.But i need some help from you guys.please send ur opinion.finally that should be a awareness of lord shiva.if u guys have already planned for such things,please inform me so that i can do the required help.Expecting your positive reply at the most.

[bhaktajan]

My Dear tata Bala,

There are eleven Rudras, of whom Çaìkara, Lord Çiva, is predominant. He is the incarnation of the Supreme Lord in charge of the mode of ignorance in the universe.

. . . but . . .

Your post prompts me to ask you, Why propagate Shiva's Fame? As the chief of Annihilation, darkness and ignorance why would anyone be interested in Shiva's Devotees' preaching?

We want democracy and liberty and civility and work. Lord Shiva is an ascetic lest he becomes a botheration to made kind— Lord Shiva's Father Lord Brahma maha-pita-ma told him to do so at the beginning of creation.

Even Arjuna is more famous: Arjuna was a famous fighter, and he attained fame by fighting many great demigods, including even Lord Çiva. After fighting and defeating Lord Çiva in the dress of a hunter, Arjuna pleased the lord and received as a reward a weapon called päçupata-astra. Everyone knew that he was a great warrior.

Even Droëäcärya gave him benedictions and awarded him the special weapon by which he could kill even his teacher. So he was credited with so many military certificates from many authorities, including his adopted father Indra, the heavenly king.

Arjuna also thought that it was fitting that all the perfect living entities and powerful demigods offer their respectful obeisances unto Him, because no one is greater than Him. Arjuna especially mentions that Kåñëa is greater than Brahmä because Brahmä is created by Him.

Brahmä is born out of the lotus stem grown from the navel abdomen of Garbhodakaçäyé Viñëu, who is Kåñëa’s plenary expansion; therefore Brahmä and Lord Çiva, who is born of Brahmä, and all other demigods must offer their respectful obeisances.

One must follow in the footsteps of great authorities like Brahmä, Çiva, Närada, Manu, the Kumäras, Kapila, Prahläda, Bhéñma, Çukadeva Gosvämé, Yamaräja, Janaka, and Bali Maharaja.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viñëu, resides within the material world as the sattva-guëa-avatära. Lord Çiva is the tamo-guëa-avatära, and Lord Brahmä is the rajo-guëa-avatära, but although Lord Viñëu is among them, He is not in the same category. Lord Viñëu is deva-deva, the chief of all the demigods. Since Lord Çiva is in this material world, the energy of the Supreme Lord, Viñëu, includes Lord Çiva.

Lord Viñëu is therefore called jagad-vyäpé, “the all-pervading Lord.” Lord Çiva is sometimes called Maheçvara, and so people think that Lord Çiva is everything. But here Lord Çiva addresses Lord Viñëu as Jagad-éça, “the master of the universe.”

Lord Çiva is sometimes called Viçveçvara, but here he addresses Lord Viñëu as Jagan-maya, indicating that even Viçveçvara is under Lord Viñëu’s control. Lord Viñëu is the master of the spiritual world, yet He controls the material world also, as stated in Bhagavad-gétä (mayädhyakñeëa prakåtiù süyate sacaräcaram [bg. 9.10]).

Lord Brahmä and Lord Çiva are also sometimes called éçvara, but the supreme éçvara is Lord Viñëu, Lord Kåñëa. As stated in Brahma-saàhitä, éçvaraù paramaù kåñëaù: [bs. 5.1] the Supreme Lord is Kåñëa, Lord Viñëu. Everything in existence works in proper order because of Lord Viñëu. Aëòäntara-stha-paramäëu-cayäntara-stham. Even paramäëu, the small atoms, work because of Lord Viñëu’s presence within them.

One may be able to see the universal form of Kåñëa by adding a little tinge of devotional service to various activities like penances, Vedic study and philosophical speculation. It may be possible, but without a tinge of bhakti one cannot see; that has already been explained.

Beware: One who is not Kåñëa conscious is subjected to material desires while contemplating the objects of the senses. The senses require real engagements, and if they are not engaged in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, they will certainly seek engagement in the service of materialism.

In the material world everyone, including Lord Çiva and Lord Brahmä—to say nothing of other demigods in the heavenly planets—is subjected to the influence of sense objects, and the only method to get out of this puzzle of material existence is to become Kåñëa conscious.

Who has said why you should propagate Shiva name, fame, personality, paraphernalia and pastimes? And what good is it to do so?

The words mäm eva are also significant. Mäm means unto Kåñëa (Viñëu) only, and not Brahmä or Çiva. Although Brahmä and Çiva are greatly elevated and are almost on the level of Viñëu, it is not possible for such incarnations of rajo-guëa (passion) and tamo-guëa (ignorance) to release the conditioned soul from the clutches of mäyä.

In other words, both Brahmä and Çiva are also under the influence of mäyä. Only Viñëu is the master of mäyä; therefore He alone can give release to the conditioned soul.

The Vedas (Çvetäçvatara Upaniñad 3.8) confirm this in the phrase tam eva viditvä. or “Freedom is possible only by understanding Kåñëa.” Even Lord Çiva affirms that liberation can be achieved only by the mercy of Viñëu.

Lord Çiva says, mukti-pradätä sarveñäà viñëur eva na saàçayaù: “There is no doubt that Viñëu is the deliverer of liberation for everyone.”

Anyone who thinks that God and the demigods are on the same level is called an atheist, or päñaëòé. Even the great demigods like Brahmä and Çiva cannot be compared to the Supreme Lord. In fact, the Lord is worshiped by demigods such as Brahmä and Çiva (çiva-viriïci-nutam).

Since Lord Çiva is the greatest soul among the living entities within this material world, his name, Çiva, is very auspicious for persons who identify the body with the soul. If such persons take shelter of Lord Çiva, gradually they will understand that they are not the material body but are spirit soul. Çiva means maìgala, or auspicious. Within the body the soul is auspicious. Ahaà brahmäsmi: “I am Brahman.” This realization is auspicious.

As long as one does not realize his identity as the soul, whatever he does is inauspicious. Çiva means “auspicious,” and devotees of Lord Çiva gradually come to the platform of spiritual identification, but that is not all. Auspicious life begins from the point of spiritual identification.

But there are still more duties—one has to understand one’s relationship with the Supreme Soul. If one is actually a devotee of Lord Çiva, he comes to the platform of spiritual realization, but if he is not intelligent enough, then he stops at that point, only realizing that he is spirit soul (ahaà brahmäsmi).

If he is intelligent enough, however, he should continue to act in the way of Lord Çiva, for Lord Çiva is always absorbed in the thought of Väsudeva. As previously explained, sattvaà viçuddhaà vasudeva-çabditam: Lord Çiva is always in meditation on the lotus feet of Väsudeva, Çré Kåñëa.

Thus the auspicious position of Lord Çiva is realized if one takes to the worship of Viñëu, because Lord Çiva says in the Çiva Puräëa that the topmost worship is worship of Lord Viñëu. Lord Çiva is worshiped because he is the greatest devotee of Lord Viñëu.

One should not, however, make the mistake of considering Lord Çiva and Lord Viñëu to be on the same level. That is also an atheistic idea. It is also enjoined in the Vaiñëavéya Puräëa that Viñëu, or Näräyaëa, is the exalted Supreme Personality of Godhead, and no one should be compared to Him as equal, even Lord Çiva or Lord Brahmä, not to speak of other demigods.

It has been said: harià vinä na såtià taranti. Without taking shelter of the lotus feet of the Personality of Godhead, one cannot attain relief from the clutches of mäyä, the repetition of birth, old age, disease and death.

The Pracetäs received the shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead by the grace of Lord Çiva. Lord Çiva is the supreme devotee of Lord Viñëu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Vaiñëavänäà yathä çambhuù: the most exalted Vaiñëava is Lord Çiva, and those who are actually devotees of Lord Çiva follow Lord Çiva’s advice and take shelter at the lotus feet of Lord Viñëu.

The so-called devotees of Lord Çiva, who are simply after material prosperity, are in a way deceived by Lord Çiva. He does not actually deceive them, because Lord Çiva has no business deceiving people, but because the so-called devotees of Lord Çiva want to be deceived, Lord Çiva, who is very easily pleased, allows them all kinds of material benedictions. These benedictions might ironically result in the destruction of the so-called devotees.

For instance, Rävaëa took all material benediction from Lord Çiva, but the result was that he was ultimately destroyed with his family, kingdom and everything else because he misused Lord Çiva’s benediction. Because of his material power, he became very proud and puffed up so that he dared kidnap the wife of Lord Rämacandra.

In this way he was ruined. To get material benedictions from Lord Çiva is not difficult, but actually these are not benedictions. The Pracetäs received benediction from Lord Çiva, and as a result they attained the shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Viñëu.

This is real benediction. The gopés also worshiped Lord Çiva in Våndävana, and the lord is still staying there as Gopéçvara. The gopés, however, prayed that Lord Çiva bless them by giving them Lord Kåñëa as their husband.

There is no harm in worshiping the demigods, provided that one’s aim is to return home, back to Godhead.

Generally people go to the demigods for material benefit, as indicated in Bhagavad-gétä 7.20:

“Those whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.” One enamored by material benefits is called håta jïäna (“one who has lost his intelligence”).

In this connection it is to be noted that sometimes in revealed scriptures Lord Çiva is described as being nondifferent from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The point is that Lord Çiva and Lord Viñëu are so intimately connected that there is no difference in opinion.

The actual fact is kåñëa, ära saba bhåtya: “The only supreme master is Kåñëa, and all others are His devotees or servants.” (Cc. Ädi 5.142) This is the real fact, and there is no difference of opinion between Lord Çiva and Lord Viñëu in this connection.

Nowhere in revealed scripture does Lord Çiva claim to be equal to Lord Viñëu. This is simply the creation of the so-called devotees of Lord Çiva, who claim that Lord Çiva and Lord Viñëu are one.

This is strictly forbidden in the Vaiñëava-tantra: yas tu näräyaëaà devam. Lord Viñëu, Lord Çiva and Lord Brahmä are intimately connected as master and servants.

Çiva-viriïci-nutam. Viñëu is honored and offered obeisances by Lord Çiva and Lord Brahmä. To consider that they are all equal is a great offense.

They are all equal in the sense that Lord Viñëu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and all others are His eternal servants.

The Sanskrit word bhagavän is explained by the great authority Paräçara Muni, the father of Vyäsadeva. The Supreme Personality who possesses all riches, all strength, all fame, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation is called Bhagavän.

There are many persons who are very rich, very powerful, very beautiful, very famous, very learned, and very much detached, but no one can claim that he possesses all riches, all strength, etc., entirely. Only Kåñëa can claim this because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

No living entity, including Brahmä, Lord Çiva, or Näräyaëa, can possess opulences as fully as Kåñëa. Therefore it is concluded in the Brahma-saàhitä by Lord Brahmä himself that Lord Kåñëa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No one is equal to or above Him. He is the primeval Lord, or Bhagavän, known as Govinda, and He is the supreme cause of all causes.

All Vedic literature agrees that Kåñëa is the source of Brahmä, Çiva and all other demigods.

In the Atharva Veda (Gopäla-täpané Upaniñad 1.24) it is said, yo brahmäëaà vidadhäti pürvaà yo vai vedäàç ca gäpayati sma kåñëaù: “It was Kåñëa who in the beginning instructed Brahmä in Vedic knowledge and who disseminated Vedic knowledge in the past.”

Then again the Näräyaëa Upaniñad (1) says, atha puruño ha vai näräyaëo ’kämayata prajäù såjeyeti: “Then the Supreme Personality Näräyaëa desired to create living entities.”

The Upaniñad continues, näräyaëäd brahmä jäyate, näräyaëäd prajäpatiù prajäyate, näräyaëäd indro jäyate, näräyaëäd añöau vasavo jäyante, näräyaëäd ekädaça rudrä jäyante, näräyaëäd dvädaçädityäù: “From Näräyaëa, Brahmä is born, and from Näräyaëa the patriarchs are also born.

From Näräyaëa, Indra is born, from Näräyaëa the eight Vasus are born, from Näräyaëa the eleven Rudras are born, from Näräyaëa the twelve Ädityas are born.” This Näräyaëa is an expansion of Kåñëa.

It is said in the same Vedas, brahmaëyo devaké-putraù: “The son of Devaké, Kåñëa, is the Supreme Personality.”

Näräyaëa Upaniñad 4) Then it is said, eko vai näräyaëa äsén na brahmä na éçäno näpo nägni-samau neme dyäv-äpåthivé na nakñaträëi na süryaù: “In the beginning of the creation there was only the Supreme Personality Näräyaëa. There was no Brahmä, no Çiva, no water, no fire, no moon, no stars in the sky, no sun.”

Mahä Upaniñad 1) In the Mahä Upaniñad it is also said that Lord Çiva was born from the forehead of the Supreme Lord. Thus the Vedas say that it is the Supreme Lord, the creator of Brahmä and Çiva, who is to be worshiped.

In the Mokña-dharma Kåñëa also says,

 

 

 

prajäpatià ca rudraà cäpy

 

 

 

 

aham eva såjämi vai

 

 

 

 

tau hi mäà na vijänéto

 

 

 

 

mama mäyä-vimohitau

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“The patriarchs, Çiva and others are created by Me, though they do not know that they are created by Me because they are deluded by My illusory energy.”

In the Varäha Puräëa it is also said,

 

 

 

näräyaëaù paro devas

 

 

 

 

tasmäj jätaç caturmukhaù

 

 

 

 

tasmäd rudro ’bhavad devaù

 

 

 

 

sa ca sarva-jïatäà gataù

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“Näräyaëa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and from Him Brahmä was born, from whom Çiva was born.”

You do not know me but I solemnly swear that I am an Honest person who has prepared for many years and lifetimes to deliver this amrita to you,

Bhaktajan

 

[bgita67]

 

You do not know me but I solemnly swear that I am an Honest person who has prepared for many years and lifetimes to deliver this amrita to you,

Bhaktajan

 

 

:rofl:

 

Bhaktajan, I really really enjoy reading your posts because they make me smile, laugh, cry a little, and overall they brighten up my day and improve my mental, physical, and spiritual health. I can tell that in real life you are a man in his 50s or 60s who is real laid back, has a wonderful sense of humor, and never finds a problem with much of anything.

 

May Lord Kåñëa guide us all.

 

To balachandranv,

Can you say that you honestly feel like this is what Lord Shiva wants for you to do? Or is it just to be known by others? Think on it and be honest.

[balachandranv]

hi guys,

i think u guys would have read bhagavat Geetha and other things.may be u would have been a vishnu bhaktha.it doesnt matter.first read shivapuranam and then reply me.how did lord vishnu get his sudharshana chakra and who gave powers to lord ram to kill ravana.lord shiva gives powers to all the villans but the same shiva gives powers to the lord vishnu to kill them.he knows everything.also there was one incident where lord shiva in the form of fire proved that he is the most powerful and dominant god than lord vishnu and lord brahma.thats why still people lit up a fire on the top of the tiruvannamalai mountain.i dont have to prove that he is everything.i dont want anybody to tell wrong things about lord shiva.if u r interested in my idea,please reply else leave it.

[balachandranv]

hi bhaktajan,

what is there is to laugh? do u think spreading devotion is fun?

what is there to lie? i dont want ur personal comments .if u r interested in my opinion,reply me else leave it.i dont need any popularity.since u r a lord krishna bhaktha,u guys will hate lord shiva.coz u guys were told to hate lord shiva. if u would have learned vedas,then u will feel that there is no fun in spreading devotion.in rudram and chamagam he says that he is governing whole universe.if u cant help me its alright. but please dont post these kind of funny replies.one more thing i am not a old guy.my age is 24 and i am working in a IT company.

[bhaktajan]

Laughing? Who is laughing? You hear Laughing?

 

24 years old? [minus 8 years of sleeping minus 5 years before entering school = 11 years to study IT and ABC's and adolescent angst and the way of the world -- you have acheived so much in so little time].

 

I am quoting to you what the same conclusion of great authorities like Brahmä, Çiva, Närada, Manu, the Kumäras, Kapila, Prahläda, Bhéñma, Çukadeva Gosvämé, Yamaräja, Janaka, and Bali Maharaja.

 

My questions, for you, as stated above, are re-printed here below:

1) Why propagate Shiva's Fame? As the chief of Annihilation, darkness and ignorance why would anyone be interested in Shiva's Devotees' preaching?

 

2) Who has said why you should propagate Shiva name, fame, personality, paraphernalia and pastimes? And what good is it to do so?

 

PS: We are taught what it says in the Vedas!

We Vaishnavas do not worship Shiva --we are Shiva's servants none the less. So, how can you neglect us Vaishnavas as your own object of adoration and yet think you will approach The Greastest Vaishnava and direct his attention to yourself?.

Shiva is our great great Uncle--there is "Hate" for Lord Shiva by Vaishnavas [Where would you get that Idea?].

You want to direct his attention to get Him angry?

We have Shiva, the greatest Vaishnava, to protect us Krishna Bhaktas --or we fallen Vaishnavas at least repose ourselves in Shiva's lap.

 

Do you not except the MahaBharata's version of Pre-Western History?

If you do then, Krishna's position has been revealed to you, Dvija-bandhus, sudras, and women folk everywhere in this age of Kali-yuga.

 

It is by the grace of Great Vaishnavas that all common folks can know the All-Atractive Personality of Godhead Bhagavan Sri Krishna.

 

Spreading Krishna's Fame is Sanatana-tattva everyone else is in the chorus and the lead Dancer in the Chorus is Lord Shiva clearing the way for proper sadhana.

The Maha-Mantra is:

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna

Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama

Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

It is called the Maha-Mantra because Great Vaishnavas confirm it as so --why ignore the most obvious Sanatana Dharma?

 

It is an insult to me that you ask "what is there is to laugh? do u think spreading devotion is fun?" --I have made NO attempt to make fun!!!!!!!!!

 

"dont post these kind of funny replies"---WHAT FUNNY REPLIES?????

{Yes, Comedy is derived by compromising another person. But such compromise is actually the 'suffering' of that other person--so we would CRY not laugh.}

 

 

Read the Mahabharata and learn the most basic first.

Learn from the Parampara that starts with Brahma--that is all.

 

There is no harm in worshiping the demigods, provided that one’s aim is to return home, back to Godhead.

[bgita67]

 

hi bhaktajan,

what is there is to laugh? do u think spreading devotion is fun?

what is there to lie? i dont want ur personal comments .if u r interested in my opinion,reply me else leave it.i dont need any popularity.since u r a lord krishna bhaktha,u guys will hate lord shiva.coz u guys were told to hate lord shiva. if u would have learned vedas,then u will feel that there is no fun in spreading devotion.in rudram and chamagam he says that he is governing whole universe.if u cant help me its alright. but please dont post these kind of funny replies.one more thing i am not a old guy.my age is 24 and i am working in a IT company.

 

Hate, as they say, is a very strong word and it truly is. Anyone who actually "hates" Lord Shiva, Indra, Rudra, Parvati, Mahavidyas, Ganesha, and so on is certainly not an adherent of Sanatana Dharma and therefore cannot be a Vaisnava, Saiva, Sakta, Smarta... especially the first three (eh, why not the last?).

 

I have some some of the three orthodox Vedas, not the original Samskritam, but translated to English. According to the Vedic writings (which to me simply means Rig, Yajur, and Sama Vedas as well as the Upanishads), Indra is the omnipresent supreme being and so is Agni and Vishnu. 1:164:46 of the Rigveda says ekam sat or "One Truth" or "One Reality" and then it goes on to say that the sages explain it to us in many ways; they call it Agni, Indra, Yama, and so on. I'm not a Vaisnava but Lord Vishnu and his Avataras are always grabbing my attention and adoration. I believe Shiva, Vishnu, Kali, Ganesha, Agni, Indra, Rama, and all of these 'deities' are the same Being. And I don't care what anyone thinks of me about that.

 

As far as your age, I think you confused my previous post with yourself. I was pointing out that I think user Bhaktajan is in his 50s or 60s and that he must have a good sense of humor. No disrespect intended toward you (or anyone else).

[RadhaMukunda]

I guess on that picture you are the kid smiling in the back, bhaktajan?

[ARJ]

 

hi bhaktajan,

what is there is to laugh? do u think spreading devotion is fun?

what is there to lie? i dont want ur personal comments .if u r interested in my opinion,reply me else leave it.i dont need any popularity.since u r a lord krishna bhaktha,u guys will hate lord shiva.coz u guys were told to hate lord shiva. if u would have learned vedas,then u will feel that there is no fun in spreading devotion.in rudram and chamagam he says that he is governing whole universe.if u cant help me its alright. but please dont post these kind of funny replies.one more thing i am not a old guy.my age is 24 and i am working in a IT company.

Hello Bala

 

All you need is a strong repellent for these Hare Krishna bugs

 

[bija]

 

All you need is a strong repellent for these Hare Krishna bugs

 

Hare Krishna is a sacred name of God.

 

 

Anyone who actually "hates" Lord Shiva, Indra, Rudra, Parvati, Mahavidyas, Ganesha, and so on is certainly not an adherent of Sanatana Dharma and therefore cannot be a Vaisnava, Saiva, Sakta, Smarta

Well said.

[balachandranv]

hi bhaktajan,

understand onething.i am not sending these messages for arguing with u guys.but u guys all know is bhagavat gita and some quotations.ISCON guys always wanted to hurt others feelings.i also know about ISCON,with which they always disrespect other gods.Ive even seen them.ill ask u the same question.did lord krishna asked anyone to spread his fame? then how could they have done this.first understand onething.no god works against dharma.vaishanavas always wanted to hurt lord shiva bhaktas.god doesnt expect anything from us.its up to us.understand one more thing.lord krishna cant do everything.if then why do other gods exist? if lord vishnu or lord krishna could do everything then do u think the other gods r just eating and playing cricket.also i know about what vaishanavas think about lord shiva.u dont have to tell me.nobody could c a lord shiva's idol in lord vishnu temples.but anyone can lord vishnu in lord shiva's temple.thats the attitude v shiva bhaktas have.its not that with out lord vishnu,lord shiva cant exist.its the way that v show respect to lord vishnu.lord vishnu and lord brahma both accepted that lord shiva is the greatest god as i told u before in tiruvannamalai incident where still the jyothi is lit up in annamalai mountain.again i am telling u,i dont need any arguments or comments from u else this will go into a different way.i dont agree with what u have said.coz ive never seen vaishnavas praying to lord shiva.they never do that.even they told me.coz they were told that lord shiva is demi god.they even never pray to lord ganesha or all the lord shiva ganas.its ur attitude.its not the problem with god.its ur attitude problem.i am not a small child taking ur comments into account.i am not even bothered abiut that.

[balachandranv]

finally i say 3 words which r ruling the world

 

"OM NAMA SHIVAYA"

[bhaktajan]

The Family Tree of all the personalities of the Veda

In the Bhagavata-purana

There is an actual family tree described in approximately 563 Slokas.

These Slokas delineate the family lineages starting with Brahma [including all the Prajapatis, Manus, the Soma & the Surya Dynasties] up until the 11th Century C.E..

Approximately 2,500 names [including wives are listed]

Avataras and their family lineage is included too—which brings us to the Puranas and before that to the various Vedic Books that re-tell ancient events among the Devas in their youth.

In the Bhagavata-purana the family tree Starts with & proceeds as follows:

1) Brahma's Birth [155 Trillion B.C.] — Brahma's children — Brahma's Daughter-in-law & Son-in-laws — Brahma's grandchildren — Brahma's great-grandchildren

2) Brahma's first 50 years of his life have already passed —

3) Brahma's awakes afresh at the start of the Present Day (kalpa) — the first Manu (svayambhuva) is born — Kasyapa & his cousins re-populate the Universe (prajapatis)

4) The first to 6<SUP>th</SUP> Manus born, live and pass.

5) The 7<SUP>th</SUP> Manu is born

3) At the end of the 1<SUP>st</SUP> Maha-yuga of the 7<SUP>th</SUP> Manu— Mother Revati leaves to seek Husband (and 27 Maha-yuga later arrives to marry Balarama).

4) We are here now in the 28th Maha-yuga epoch [out of 71] of the present 7<SUP>th</SUP> Manu.

5) The family tree continues until the 11<SUP>th</SUP> Century CE.

The watch word for being given this data from Vyasadeva, IMO, is a matter of "Orientation" —as in finding our way in and around a forest and knowing where our cousins and Uncles homes are to be found.

.....................................................................................................................

Bhaktajan's point in posting the above:

The reason for various seemingly contradictory statements in the Vedas, and also, in seemingly contradictory statements in the Puranas about pastimes of persons mentioned in different puranas etc is:

The events happened in vastly different epochs and vastly different places —attended by a few most famous personalities and also attended by mutitudes of Sadhus, rishis and celestial near-do-wells —therefore the re-counting of Vedic events of antiquity contain points-of-view from sources that witnessed the same events from different vantage points.

Also, the Demigods are prone to mistakes, bad-manners, momentary lapses of judgment, lust pursuits etc —so eventhough their behavior is exemplary it contains all the variety of Celestial Soap-Operas [novellas] that spring from the Human-condition [Demigod-condition].

Remember, Daksha, Durvasa and what to speak of Big-Big Asuras who made mistakes when they could have enjoyed the good life into their dotage years.

Why would Indra not recognize the advent of Vishnu's origin incarnatation,

Because of supreme conceit. But the Devas are not self-hating soul killers —they live a polished life of opulence with their duties to perform for the good of all sentient beings and also for the maintenance of the physical structure of the cosmos.

Getting oriented,

Bhaktajan

 

[balachandranv]

hi bhaktajan,

i know that u would be quoting B.Geetha and non other else.what ever u say, with out lord shiva there is no meaning of vedas. lord shiva is veda.u can ask anyone.lord shiva gave the power of destruction to lord vishnu(i mean sudharshana chakra).i know lord shiva gave wishes to all ravan,mahishsuran etc.but remember onething.the same lord shiva gave power to destroy them.when lord shiva gave such powers to ravan etc.he also sets a week point for them.coz he knows that they r gonna misuse their powers.the main point is that he doesnt directly involve in destroying them.he gives such powers to lord vishnu to destroy them.i am reading b.geetha every day.but u try to read SHIVAPURANAM.lord shiva created brahma,vishnu and rudran.all the 3 evolved from him.also c the picture sent my ARJ.u first know about the paramparas.

[balachandranv]

hi ARJ,

thank u for sending the picture and supporting my point.

[balachandranv]

hi bhakthajan,

do u think that life is not possible with out praying lord vishnu.shall i quote the names who have worshipped lord shiva and went to heaven.

if u r an south indian u can come to know these characters

 

Tirugynanasambandhar,tirunavukkarasar,sundarar,appar and much more.

through out their life time they prayed to lord shiva and went to heaven.there r some idiots who say only if u pray lord vishnu u r sent to heaven.thats obsolutely wrong............

[bhaktajan]

yes, I am a fool and thus I must quote from the authorty of an Acarya (bonefide Guru spiritual master) --so any opinion of mine that I have shared with you comes from the Brahma-Madhva-Chaitanya-Sampradaya.

 

Academically I must seek to know who translated [from the sanskrit, tamil etc] the sastra that You are quoting?

 

Our knowledge is based upon whom did we recieve it from?

 

In the Mahabharata we receive the History of the Royal court of the emperor of the World before western history came into being.

 

There in one chapter Krishna speaks--that is all I need to know.

 

What did Krishna really say? How can we read the exact sanskrit words?

 

How can anyone understand the mysterious statements of the Vedas [Rg, atharva etc] without knowing the pastimes of all the great personalities of the Raghu and Indu Dynasties since Brahma's birth?

 

An interpreter of the cyptic verses of the Rg Veda are meant for artha, Kama & Dharma only.

 

Mukunda's face is Krishna's face--and even in Krishna's pastimes the world stage was eager to fight with him directly--so we are in training for our part in future advents when sides will be drawn and amrita-Rasa will rain hard upon all equally-- yet some will take shelter while other will run like mad.

[thehat]

Hey I think go ahead and build a Lord Shiva temple if you wish to.

Better a Lord Shiva temple than a cinema house or liqour store or something like that.

 

Though it would be nicer if you built a Lord Krishna or Lord Rama temple as Lord Shiva did request of the people that they worshipped only Lord Govinda.

 

Good luck with your endeavour. You must be quite a rich 24 year old to be able to build temples all over the world

[brahma kumar]

om shanti,

Just look at the number of divisions in present day india.

Hindu/muslim/christian.

upper caste /dalit.

hindi/kannada/tamil/telugu....

pro sez/no sez

north/south/east/ west

Is there anything more

Shiv bhakth/vishnu bakth

 

God was,is and will always be one it's the human body consciousness and belief's which make him many.

[bija]

It is evident that Gaudiya Vaisnavas worship of Lord Shiva is different than the Shaivite devotee. But it is incorrect what has been suggested in this thread that the Vaisnava devotee disrespects Lord Shiva.

 

Here is evidence from Gaudiya Sashtra. What the followers of that sashtra due in error has nothing to do with the siddhanta:

 

**********************************************************************************************

 

 

 

 

(2) Shri Shivashtakam

 

(Shri Shivashtakam composed by the Supreme Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu Himself should be recited on Shivaratri to glorify Lord Shiva):

namo namas te tri-dasesvaraya, bhutadi-nathaya mridaya nityam

ganga-tarangotthita-bala-candra-cudaya gauri-nayanotsavaya 13

nama nama - repeated obeisances; te - to you; tri-dasa-isvaraya - to the lord of the 30 principal demigods; bhuta - of all beings; adi-nathaya - unto the primeval lord; mdaya - to the gracious one; nityam - perpetually; ganga-taranga - the waves of the Ganga; utthita - arises; bala-candra - by the new moon; cudaya - crested; gauri - for the goddess Gauri (the fairest of women); nayana-utsavaya - to the festival for the eyes.

"I perpetually offer obeisances unto you, the lord of the thirty primal devas, who are the original father of created beings, whose character is gracious, upon whose head, which is crested by the sickle moon, the Ganga springs, and who are a festival for the eyes of Gauri, the fair goddess.

su-tapta-camikara-candra-nila-padma-pravalambuda-kanti-vastraih

suntya-rangeta-vara-pradaya, kaivalya-nathaya va-dhvajaya 14

su-tapta - molten; camikara - gold; candra - moon; nila-padma - blue lotus; pravala - budding; ambuda - cloud; kanti - luster; vastraih - with garments; sa - he; ntya-ranga - of pleasure-dancing; ita - desired; vara-pradaya - to you who bestow the boon; kaivalya-nathaya - to the lord of the monists; va-dhvajaya - to he whose flag bears a bull.

"I offer my obeisances to you who resemble a moon of molten gold, who are dressed in garments colored like a group of budding blue lotuses or lustrous rainclouds, who bestow the most desirable boon to your devotees by your delightful dancing, who offer shelter to those who seek to become one with the transcendental effulgence of Godhead, and whose flag bears the image of the bull.

sudhasu-suryagni-vilocanena, tamo-bhide te jagatah sivaya

sahasra-subhrasu-sahasra-rasmi-sahasra-sanjittvara-tejase 'stu 15

sudha-asu - nectar-rayed (moon); surya - sun; agni - fire; vilocanena - by your eyes; tamo-bhide - the dissipater of darkness; te - to you; jagatah - of the cosmos; sivaya - for auspiciousness; sahasra - a thousand; subhra-asu - white-rayed (moon) sahasra-rasmi - the thousand-rayed sun; sahasra - a thousand; sanjit - completely defeated; tvara - swift; tejase - to you whose power; astu - let it be.

"I offer my obeisances to you who dispel darkness with your three eyes - the moon, the sun, and fire - and thus cause auspiciousness for all the living entities of the universe, and whose potency easily defeats thousands of moons and suns.

nagesa-ratnojjvala-vigrahaya, sarddula-carmasuka-divya-tejase

sahasra-patropari sasthitaya, varangadamukta-bhuja-dvayaya 16

naga-isa - the king of snakes; ratna - gems; ujjvala - luminous; vigrahaya - to you whose form; sardula-carma - skins of tigers; asuka - garments; divya-tejase - to you of divine potency; sahasra-patra-upari - upon a thousand-petalled lotus; sasthitaya - to you who stand; vara-angada - with beautiful bangles; amukta - dressed; bhuja-dvayaya - to you whose two arms are such.

"I offer my obeisances to you, whose form is brilliantly illuminated by the jewels of Ananta-deva, the king of snakes, who possess divine potencies and are clothed in a tiger-skin, who stands in the midst of a thousand-petalled lotus, and whose two arms are adorned by lustrous bangles.

su-nupuraranjita-pada-padma-karat-sudha-bhtya-sukha-pradaya

vicitra-ratnaugha-vibhuitaya, premanam evadya harau vidhehi 17

su-nupura - fine anklebells; aranjita - reddish; pada-padma - lotus feet; karat - flowing; sudha - nectar; bhtya - to your servants; sukha-pradaya - to you who give joy; vicitra - wonderful; ratna-ogha - a multitude of jewels; vibhuitaya - to you who are adorned; premanam - love; eva - certainly; adya - today; harau - for Hari; vidhehi - You should endow.

"I offer my obeisances to you who bestow happiness to your servitors as you pour upon them the liquid nectar flowing from your reddish lotus feet, upon which charming anklebells ring. Obeisances unto you who are adorned by an abundance of gems. Please endow Me today with pure love for Shri Hari.

shri-rama govinda mukunda saure, shri-kna narayana vasudeva

ity adi-namamta-pana-matta-bhngadhipayakhila-duhkha-hantre 18

shri-rama - O splendid reservoir of pleasure!; govinda - O awarder of delight to the cows, the senses and the land!; mukunda - O giver of liberation!; saure - O hero!; shri-kna - O all-attractive!; nara-ayana - O shelter of mankind!; vasudeva - O all-pervading Lord, son of Vasudeva!; iti - thus; adi - headed by; nama-amta - nectarean names; pana - drinking; matta - intoxicated; bhnga - bee; adhipaya - unto the monarch; akhila - all; duhkha-hantre - unto the slayer of grief.

"`O Shri Rama! O Govinda! O Mukunda! O Sauri! O Shri Krishna! O Narayana! O Vasudeva!' I offer my obeisances unto you, Shri Siva, who are the monarch ruling over all the bee-like devotees who are mad to drink the nectar of these and other innumerable names of Hari, and who thus destroys all grief.

shri-naradadyaih satata sugopya-jijnasitayasu vara-pradaya

tebhyo harer bhakti-sukha-pradaya, sivaya sarvva-gurave namah 19

shri-narada-adyaih - by those headed by Narada Muni; satatam - always; su-gopya - very confidential; jijnasitaya - to you who are inquired of; asu - easily; vara-pradaya - to you who give boons; tebhya - to them; hare - of Lord Hari; bhakti-sukha-pradaya - to you who give the joy of devotional service; sivaya - to the auspicious; sarva-gurave - to the guru of all; namah - obeisances.

"I offer my respectful obeisances to you, Shri Siva, who are forever inquired of confidentially by Shri Narada and other great sages, who very easily bestow boons on them, who bestow the happiness of Hari-bhakti to those who seek boons of you, who thereby create auspiciousness and are thus the guru of everyone.

shri-gauri-netrotsava-mangalaya, tat-prana-nathaya rasa-pradaya

sada samutkantha-govinda-lila-gana-pravinaya namo 'stu tubhyam 20

shri-gauri-netra - for the eyes of Shri Gauri; utsava-mangalaya - to you who are an auspicious festival; tat-prana-nathaya - to the lord of Gauri's life breath; rasa-pradaya - to the giver of rasa; sada - always; samutkantha - with great longing; govinda-lila - of the pastimes of Govinda; gana-pravinaya - to the expert singer; nama - obeisances; astu - let there be; tubhyam - to you.

"I offer my obeisances to you who are a festival of auspiciousness for the eyes of Gauri, who are the lord of her life-energy, who bestow rasa and are expert in forever singing songs with eagerness of the pastimes of Govinda."

[bija]

.

 

[bija]

shri-narada-adyaih - by those headed by Narada Muni; satatam - always; su-gopya - very confidential; jijnasitaya - to you who are inquired of; asu - easily; vara-pradaya - to you who give boons; tebhya - to them; hare - of Lord Hari; bhakti-sukha-pradaya - to you who give the joy of devotional service; sivaya - to the auspicious; sarva-gurave - to the guru of all; namah - obeisances.

"I offer my respectful obeisances to you, Shri Siva, who are forever inquired of confidentially by Shri Narada and other great sages, who very easily bestow boons on them, who bestow the happiness of Hari-bhakti to those who seek boons of you, who thereby create auspiciousness and are thus the guru of everyone.

 

**************************************************************************************

 

Thus we can see (with scriptural evidence) the exalted position of Lord Shiva, in the eyes of the pure devotee of Krsna, as exemplified by Sri Caitanya in the above quote. Here is Srila Prabhupada's verdict:

 

Devotee: Shrila Prabhupada, in Winnipeg there is one very pious east Indian man who for many years has been worshiping somewhat, worshiping Lord Siva. And his wife is also a very quite chaste woman and sincere follower—and so were her parents—of Lord Siva. And he is reading your Bhagavad-gita. He visits our

temple. And I have given him the first volume of Canto Four which discusses Lord Siva a great deal. And he has read in one of your purports that Krishna is more pleased when you worship His devotee than when you worship Him directly. And Lord Siva is a very great devotee of Krishna. So he has now interpreted that

to mean that if he worships Lord Siva so nicely, then actually he is pleasing Krishna more. So he is experiencing some difficulty because of this and I'm not quite sure how to instruct him that actually...

Prabhupada: Difficulty?

Brahmananda: That... Our Godbrother has difficulty in replying to this interpretation that Krishna says, "You can please Me by worshiping My devotee," and Lord Siva is the devotee of Krishna. So therefore this man says, "Then I shall worship Lord Siva. In that way I shall please Krishna."

Prabhupada: But if he accepts Lord Siva is devotee of Krishna, then by worshiping Lord Siva he will be benefited. If he thinks Lord Siva is independent, then he will not be benefited.

Devotee (3): I've got him to accept that Lord Siva is devotee of Krishna, but there's no practical instruction in his worldly activities coming.

Prabhupada: No, vaishnavanam yatha sambhuh: "Amongst the Vaishnavas, Sambhu, Lord Siva, is the greatest Vaishnava." So we worship Lord Siva as Vaishnava. We gives respect to Vaishnavas. So why not Lord Siva? Lord Siva is a big Vaishnava. But generally, the devotees of Lord Siva, they take Lord Siva is independent God. That is offensive. If you know that Lord Siva is also a devotee, you can give more respect to Lord Siva. Krishna will be pleased.

Devotee (3): Shrila Prabhupada, he does not chant Hare Krishna, he chants om sivaya namah.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

Devotee (3): It's all right?

Prabhupada: He will gradually become devotee. When God, Lord Siva, will be pleased upon him, he will advise to worship.

Devotee (3): He is already trying to tell him to follow in your footsteps surely, so just before I left he said he will try once again to chant sixteen rounds of japa, Hare Krishna. He has tried already. He has a taste for...

Prabhupada: If he simply understands that Lord Siva is a Vaishnava and if he worships Lord Siva, then he will get the benefit. (ROOM CONVERSTATION, CHICAGO, 9TH JULY 1975)

[bija]

 

if u r interested in my idea,please reply else leave it. by balachandranv

This is an honest and fair request! May your desires to serve Lord Shiva be fulfilled, day by day.

 

 

since u r a lord krishna bhaktha,u guys will hate lord shiva.coz u guys were told to hate lord shiva. posted by balachandrannv

I hope my posts have clarified this discrepancy, by no means do I mean to be contentious in spirit. I am sorry for the reaction to your simple hearted posts.

 

y.s.

[srikanthdk71]

 

yes, I am a fool and thus I must quote from the authorty of an Acarya (bonefide Guru spiritual master) --so any opinion of mine that I have shared with you comes from the Brahma-Madhva-Chaitanya-Sampradaya.

 

Thanks for keeping your routine work going. It would have been better if you would have told 'Authority of an Acharya who doesnt respect Advaita, Doesnt respect Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma but know only how to hate the non-ISKCONites and non Vaishnavas'.

 

 

Academically I must seek to know who translated [from the sanskrit, tamil etc] the sastra that You are quoting?

 

It was Agastya Muni who was the founder of Tamil Language who is reveredly called Agastyar by revered Tamilians.

 

 

Our knowledge is based upon whom did we recieve it from?

 

Now you know from whom did the Tamilians received the Rudra/Shiva Gyan. Not from SP. But his great great grand guru.

 

 

How can anyone understand the mysterious statements of the Vedas [Rg, atharva etc] without knowing the pastimes of all the great personalities of the Raghu and Indu Dynasties since Brahma's birth?

 

Pastimes and playtimes are for kids and for those who think with the Mind. The pastimes and playtimes are intended 'Always' to pacify the mind.

 

 

An interpreter of the cyptic verses of the Rg Veda are meant for artha, Kama & Dharma only.

 

That was a lovely quote. Thanks.

 

 

Mukunda's face is Krishna's face--and even in Krishna's pastimes the world stage was eager to fight with him directly--so we are in training for our part in future advents when sides will be drawn and amrita-Rasa will rain hard upon all equally-- yet some will take shelter while other will run like mad.

 

Your Krishna bhakti is indeed unquestionable. The only questionable aspect is your attitude to question the Shiva Bhakti. At some point, you devoted your life of Sri Krishna Bhakti, the same way, the others have a choice to be devoted to Shiva. When you search in the Vedas for the meaning of Atma, the only definition of Atma is 'Shivam Shantam Advaitam Chathurtam Manyante Sa Atma Sabigyeyah'. If you believe that you have an Atma, you are indeed Shiva himself. That is the reason why you believe that you are a staunch Vaishnava.

[bija]

Shri Bhagavatamrita Kanika - click here

 

...The gross body of Brahma, consisting of the total material substance (the aggregate of the universal form of material nature, extending from Patala up to Satyaloka), is also known as Brahma. Hiranyagarbha, Who is manifested within that gross body as subtle living entities, is also known as Brahma. The indwelling soul therein, the second purusha, Garbhodasayi, is Iswar, the Supreme Controller. He Who is the destroyer, by the action of the mode of ignorance is Lord Siva. The indwelling purusha within the Universal Form as well as the subtle form of the Creator, Hiranyagarbha, Who is the super excellent controller born of the lotus flower, have both been referred to as Brahma. This Brahma also accepts the form of Siva for the purpose of destruction. During some kalpas very pious jivas attain this position whereas in others, Lord Vishnu Himself accepts the position of Lord Siva. However, the personality of Sadasiva, is a plenary portion (vilas-vigraha: as distinct from svamsa expansions which are endowed with a smaller degree of potency from the original Godhead) of the self-same form of the Supreme Lord, Shri Krishna, and He is transcendental to the three modes of material nature. It is from Him that the gunavatar of Siva is expanded. Therefore He should be understood to be superior to Brahma, equal to Lord Vishnu, and entirely separate from jivas, who are influenced by the material modes of nature....