spreading lord shiva awareness across world

[bhaktajan]

Oh Strong & Handsome Baby boy Balaji,

Thank you for your wellwishes.

 

Apparently your words are prophetic!

 

Lord Shiva has bless you by bringing him to his ultimate Godbrothers, The Vaishnavas--now accept the mercy that Lord Shiva has lead you to.

 

Bala, I repeat your wise insightful words to you. Read my refrain of your advise to me:

 

 

 

Bala, Your advice has come full circle. Please follow my advise as I state as follows:

--its the human nature of asking everything to god

--when u ask anything he will give u.

--when u dont ask anything,he will give us a priceless gift which v wouldn't even expect.u dint understand

--u r disrespecting ur own god.

--u r disrespecting vaishnavas.

--and were taught the wrong meaning of god.

--please read other books [sastra] also.

--lord shiva is born to destroy

--only he is gonna take away our ashes.

--he is gonna guide u depending up on our punya and sins.

--teach u the real knowlegde

 

These are Lord Shiva's glories, Jai!

 

Now, Bala, your ignorance has now been removed --so re-read my post above [#45] again and again so that Lord Shiva will be pleased with you and thus Lord Shiva will never become angry with you.

 

Here is more amrita from Lord Shiva --who removes all obsticles on the path toward Home, back to Godhead:

 

According to the Vedänta-sütra, 'sambhüta' is the source of birth and sustenance, as well as the reservoir that remains after annihilation (janmädy asya yataù [sB 1.1.1]).

The Çrémad-Bhägavatam, the natural commentary on the Vedänta-sütra by the same author, maintains that the source of all emanations is not like a dead stone but is abhijïa, or fully conscious.

The primeval Lord, Çré Kåñëa, also says in the Bhagavad-gétä (7.26) that He is fully conscious of past, present and future and that no one, including demigods such as Çiva and Brahmä, knows Him fully.

Certainly half-educated “spiritual leaders” who are disturbed by the tides of material existence cannot know Him fully.

They try to make some compromise by making the mass of humanity the object of worship, but they do not know that such worship is only a myth because the masses are imperfect.

The attempt by these so-called spiritual leaders is something like pouring water on the leaves of a tree instead of the root. The natural process is to pour water on the root, but such disturbed leaders are more attracted to the leaves than the root.

Despite their perpetually watering the leaves, however, everything dries up for want of nourishment.

 

1—The living being is perpetually suffering in different types of bodies from the material miseries of birth, old age, disease and death.

2—The human form of life offers one a chance to get out of this entanglement simply by reestablishing the lost relationship between the living entity and the Supreme Lord.

3—The Lord comes personally to teach this philosophy of surrender unto the Supreme, the sambhüta.

4—Real service to humanity is rendered when one teaches surrender to and worship of the Supreme Lord with full love and energy. That is the instruction of Lord Lord Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

........................................................................................................

In the Atharva Veda (Gopäla-täpané Upaniñad 1.24) it is similarly said:

“He who existed before the creation of Brahmä and who enlightened Brahmä with Vedic knowledge is Lord Çré Kåñëa.”

Similarly, the Näräyaëa Upaniñad (1) states: “Then the Supreme Person, Näräyaëa, desired to create all living beings. Thus from Näräyaëa, Brahmä was born. Näräyaëa created all the Prajäpatis. Näräyaëa created Indra. Näräyaëa created the eight Vasus. Näräyaëa created the eleven Rudras. Näräyaëa created the twelve Ädityas.”

Since Näräyaëa is a plenary manifestation of Lord Kåñëa, Näräyaëa and Kåñëa are one and the same.

The Näräyaëa Upaniñad (4) also states: “Devaké’s son [Kåñëa] is the Supreme Lord.”

The identity of Näräyaëa with the supreme cause has also been accepted and confirmed by Çrépäda Çaìkaräcärya, even though Çaìkara does not belong to the Vaiñëava, or personalist, cult.

The Atharva Veda (Mahä Upaniñad 1) also states: “Only Näräyaëa existed in the beginning, when neither Brahmä, nor Çiva, nor fire, nor water, nor stars, nor sun, nor moon existed. The Lord does not remain alone but creates as He desires.”

 

Kåñëa Himself states in the Mokña-dharma, “I created the Prajäpatis and the Rudras. They do not have complete knowledge of Me because they are covered by My illusory energy.”

It is also stated in the Varäha Puräëa: “Näräyaëa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and from Him the four-headed Brahmä was manifested, as well as Rudra, who later became omniscient.”

 

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Dear Baktajan,

 

Why are you trying to convert a Siva bakta to your system? Is there any real need? Hindus are wise and all gods are great forms and can deliver all goods. It is the bakti which matters not the form of god. If you dont learn this spiritual lession you will be no different from Fanatic Cristians and Muslimes. There was nothing wrong with our hindu gods - we dint need new gods from the invaders isint it?

 

The more and more you try to do your preaching the more and more you will encounter resistence and people will hate you . This is the story of all convertants. Because all idea of convertion is based on intolerance hatred and spiritual ignorance. Christians and Muslimes were like that and commited sin and crime against Spiritually advanced hindus. Now you are doing the same within Hindu sect.

 

People will appreciate you and even follow you much better if you simply be an example of bhaki, love, tollerance, liberalism and show reverance to all gods. They are true spiritual quality. Prejudice hatred and parochialism (my god and your god ) are anti-spiritual qualities. When people see these things in any one intitutively they know you that person is not spiritual and not worth to be followed in spiritual matters.

 

I dont mean to give advise because unsolicited advice creats anger. I only mean to share my views, on this issue. You can practically see what happens in this forum discussion itself isint it? Have You succeeded in converting anybody to youir view (except the ones who were already inclined to tha same view as your's right from the begining)?

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[hindustani]

Dear Ravindra Kesavanji

I fully agree on all points you have mentioned here,there was one member called dark warrior here few days back,now he is not seen perhaps,bhaktajan using same terms (but in a polished way)and each time he tries to prove that what he worship(his God)is superior to others,these chaps infect don't know ABCD of Hindu Dharma atall,Since childhood we have been taught to respect others,Hindu religion is the most divine and flexible one but people like this try to mislead others,funny thing is most of time their posts are nothing but a copy paste work and not their own vichars,anyway since long I stopped arguing with them,one day they will realise what they did in past.I seldom love God Shiv but that does not mean that I am biased towards our other Gods,for me Ram and Krishna are one and same,Lord Rudra is dear to Lord Vishnu and Lord Vishnu is dear to Lord Rudra,99% of people don't know the difference between Lord Rudra and God Shiv,Lord Rudra=Lord Shankara,Shiv is param GOD and GOD Shiv=Lord Brahma who is Generator+Lord Vishnu who is Organiser+Lord Mahesh who is Destroyer(Lord Rudra OR Lord Shankara).

 

Dear Baktajan,

 

Why are you trying to convert a Siva bakta to your system? Is there any real need? Hindus are wise and all gods are great forms and can deliver all goods. It is the bakti which matters not the form of god. If you dont learn this spiritual lession you will be no different from Fanatic Cristians and Muslimes. There was nothing wrong with our hindu gods - we dint need new gods from the invaders isint it?

 

The more and more you try to do your preaching the more and more you will encounter resistence and people will hate you . This is the story of all convertants. Because all idea of convertion is based on intolerance hatred and spiritual ignorance. Christians and Muslimes were like that and commited sin and crime against Spiritually advanced hindus. Now you are doing the same within Hindu sect.

 

People will appreciate you and even follow you much better if you simply be an example of bhaki, love, tollerance, liberalism and show reverance to all gods. They are true spiritual quality. Prejudice hatred and parochialism (my god and your god ) are anti-spiritual qualities. When people see these things in any one intitutively they know you that person is not spiritual and not worth to be followed in spiritual matters.

 

I dont mean to give advise because unsolicited advice creats anger. I only mean to share my views, on this issue. You can practically see what happens in this forum discussion itself isint it? Have You succeeded in converting anybody to youir view (except the ones who were already inclined to tha same view as your's right from the begining)?

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[ARJ]

<center> How can the god of destruction be the Supreme ?

 

</center> Destruction is one among the three activities that is undertaken by the Three Holy Manifestations of sanAtana dharma respectively. That being the case how could one say Lord Shiva who gets associated with the destruction be the Supreme God ?

 

braHma, viShNu, rudra, often referred to collectively as trimUrti, play the role of masters of creation, protection and destruction respectively. If we take this world as an example it is an easy task for almost everybody to involve in the acts of creation. (This is not to say that the Universal creation is a trivial task. All due respects to Lord braHma). Whereas as for as protection is concerned it is only few good hearted people, who have the strength and inclination to help for the cause of goodness do the protection deeds. But... not everybody is provided with the power of destruction. When anybody starts doing the destruction then there would be chaos which they call the law and order problem. There is normally one authority called government is given the authority to destroy and not others. This would show how difficult is the action of destruction and how carefully it has to be dealt with. This is the reason the act of destruction (to be correct this word should be actually "reduction", as things are not getting destroyed but only a change of state happens odukkam in thamiz and pralayam in saMskR^itam) is handled by a form of Lord shiva Itself, Who is called rudra. Since rudra is a form of the Lord, rudra is considered as Lord shiva Itself.

 

Ok, so far only one part of the question is answered. Agreed, the importance of the act of reduction (destruction). But when this Lord being one among the Trinity, how can this Lord be considered the Supreme ?

Let us take an example of a small shop. The owner employs a few skilled people to do the regular work and at peak hours or at critical periods, he/she also takes some important work and executes it. Now that individual wears two caps. One as the owner of the shop and other as the worker in the shop, but the individual is the same irrespective of whether he /she is acting as the owner or as a worker. Nobody questions his/her ownership because he/she shares the work load with the others in the shop. The same way though the Supreme Lord shiva is beyond the five deeds, It also takes roles in the critical deeds assuming a form specific to that role. So though Lord shiva gets associated with one of the three in the Trinity, He is the Supreme Itself.

 

A point to note here is that it is not just these three actions, but there are totally five deeds which are the acts of/on behalf of the Supreme. These five activities referred to as panycha kR^ityam are creation, sustenance, reduction, illusioning and blessing. The holy masters for these five activities are braHma, viShNu, rudra, maheshwara, sadAshiva respectively. Of these the later three are nothing but the forms of the Supreme shiva (called parashivA). So to conclude Lord Shiva is the Supreme, Who assumes various critical roles and assumes appropriate names and forms, and also stands transcending all these.

[rajasanthi]

GOD is one.......Who is Shiva....Who is Vishnu......Who is Brahma.......They are all one and the same.......

 

 

" Eka eva dvithiyam.......

Eko devaha sarva bhoothantharathma.......

Eka bhasha bhootha kaarunya roopa......

Ekam lakshyam saamarasyam samesha.....

Ekam sarvam chittamanandha poornam........."

Regards,

RajaSanthi.

[kaisersose]

 

Dear Baktajan,

 

Why are you trying to convert a Siva bakta to your system? Is there any real need?

 

I know why.

 

Bhaktajan et al., are Westerners mostly born and raised in Christian families. The same attitude has been carried over into their chosen belief system - the Hare Krishna cult. It is extremely important to them - to the extent of paranoia - that their belief system is superior to everything else. If it did not come with the "superior" tag, they would not have bothered to become Hare Krishnas at all.

 

Add to this, the preaching mindset conditioned into them by the founder of ISKCON. They simply cannot accept the idea of different beliefs coexisting. From what I have heard several times, inside ISKCON, the value of a devotee is measured by the number of people he converts and/or the $$$ he is able to bring in. If that is true, this organization is no less materialistic than a law firm or any corporate sales division.

 

This is why.

 

 

You can practically see what happens in this forum discussion itself isint it? Have You succeeded in converting anybody to youir view (except the ones who were already inclined to tha same view as your's right from the begining)?

 

Well said. I read somewhere recently that the best targets for conversion into cults are angry adolescents who are generally looking to rebel and position themselves differently from the mainstream. Otherwise, preachy systems do not generally have much luck with conversions in today's world where chances of being misled are lesser than what they were just 25 years ago.

 

Cheers

[Trivedi]

 

I know why.

 

Bhaktajan et al., are Westerners mostly born and raised in Christian families. The same attitude has been carried over into their chosen belief system - the Hare Krishna cult.

 

Cheers

 

Converts from Christ to Krishna? What is gained by such substitution of Christ by Krishna, withot the change of Christian mind set to broad minded Hindu spiritualism ? Convertion to Hinduism is not just the change of name of a god with rest of christian attitude remaining cork tight. There is no merit in it. They could as well remain Christian in that case.

 

True convertion to Hinduism comes with the adoption of the true Hindu Spiritual attitude which is truely broad minded Spirituality. If that is not achieved nothing is achieved and there is no need of convertion - of course unless for other material purposes.

 

Trivedi

[bhaktajan]

True convertion to Hinduism comes with:

1 No meat eating

2 No Gambling

3 No Intoxication

4 No illict sex.

 

Yes, you may un-able to follow such brahminical regulations --but you can accept the "standard" that such regulations represent.

 

Just accept the disciplines and yogic-regulations and yogic-observances as the highest standard (Sattvic) even if it is beyond your intestinal fortitudinal gumption --just think, prime-minister-style-of-pillar-of-society-ethos, you'll be fine. And when you are conscripted for military service you'll find it easier to follow orders from our Sikh Brothers.

[Hiranyagarpa]

 

True convertion to Hinduism comes with:

1 No meat eating

2 No Gambling

3 No Intoxication

4 No illict sex.

 

 

Let me answer in Sukha Style. (Sukha was born enlightened and wanted to renounce the world and go to forest When his father Vyas told him that liberation is obtained by following the Orthodex rules. Sukha the born enlightened counters them radically. Though the following response is not exactly Sukhas, as your list is not exactly same as Vyas perscribes for his son, the response matches closely the Sukhas answer to his father).

 

If not eating meat could liberate being ( or whetever equilant you have for liberatioin as ultimate spiritual goal - like Goloka Heven perhaps) , then all the Goaes and fruit wormes would have been liberated ( or attained heaven) by now. If By not gambling one could be liberated then all the animals and mentally retarded would have been liberated. If by not intoxicating one could gain spiritual merit then again most of the animals would gain somuch of spiritual merit. And by not engaging in illict sex if liberation is gained then all the immpotent people would be liberated.

 

No my friend You dont undersetand anything of Hindu spirituality. By just following certain orthodex moral code of the society you dont become spiritual . By not eating onion by not betting in horse race, by not drinking soma rasa (which Vedic rishis themself drank) and by restriting your sex activity with only those licenced by society you dont become spiritual or Hindu.

 

Hiranyagarpa.

[Trivedi 3]

 

I know why.

 

Bhaktajan et al., are Westerners mostly born and raised in Christian families. The same attitude has been carried over into their chosen belief system - the Hare Krishna cult. It is extremely important to them - to the extent of paranoia - that their belief system is superior to everything else. If it did not come with the "superior" tag, they would not have bothered to become Hare Krishnas at all.

 

Add to this, the preaching mindset conditioned into them by the founder of ISKCON. They simply cannot accept the idea of different beliefs coexisting. From what I have heard several times, inside ISKCON, the value of a devotee is measured by the number of people he converts and/or the $$$ he is able to bring in. If that is true, this organization is no less materialistic than a law firm or any corporate sales division.

 

This is why.

 

Cheers

 

I am in the habit of collecting puranas, I have different versions of the same pruanas. Many of the puranas have two versions. I have two versions of Padma purana. In one version (supposed to be authentic original older version) I have the following story.

It is predicted Kali will come and Spirituality will diminish from the world. Lord Vishnu will come at the end as Kalki to distrioy Kali to establish Satya Yuga.

But there was a problem in fulfilling this prophesy . Lord Siva has been spoiling the whole order.

Lord Siva gives Bogha as well as Moksha easily to any creature just by worship of him, even accidentally. He graced a spider which build it’s web over a Siva linga in a forest treating it to have built a temple for Siva, He graced an elephant for accidentally poring water from its trunk on the linga, He granted ruler ship of entire world to a mouse which is in the habit of eating ghee ardently kindled the flame of the ghee lamp in a Siva shrine. (This rat born as Mahabali ruled the world just and fair even Indra was jelous of and sort Vishnu’s healp to put an end to his rulership .Vishnu took the Vamana avadar and took away the kingdom of Mahabali and sent him to underworld. ) Asduras human and even animals are elevated by Siva worship so easily, just by worshipping Sivalinga. This method of easily gaining spiritual merit spread widely in three worlds and many human and Asuras easily gained entry to heaven.

Indra could not tolerate all this and complained to Vishnu. Vishnu being a protector of deva’s interest on the one hand as well from his own side realizing that the Kali could never strengthen at this rate as long as people in masses practiced Siva bhakti and as a result the prediction of Kali age would fail and his Kalki avadar will have no purpose. Realising all this he promised Indra that in Kali before his own Kalki avadar, he will send Narada to earth and spread false doctrine to dissuade people from the worship of Siva. Narada would establish an order and spread this false doctrine far beyond the borders of Bharada (<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region></st1:place>) and many Milechas (foreigners) will become followers of this order and spread false doctrine, discourage people from worship Siva. They will preach a form of religion without worship of Ganesa first there by make worship ineffective (As no religious worship could bear fruit with out Ganesa worship first), and discourage people from Siva worship there by completely misguide being from the real and easy path of gaining both Bogha (Heavenly Enjoyment) and Moksha. (Liberation)

I guess this prophesy, of the spread of Narata’s false religion, is being fulfilled in this age of Kali by this Milecha Hindus: Christina Conscious guys. They are working for strengthening of Kali age, I guess.

 

Veda trivedi

[bija]

 

I guess this prophesy, of the spread of Narata’s false religion, is being fulfilled in this age of Kali by this Milecha Hindus: Christina Conscious guys. They are working for strengthening of Kali age, I guess.

 

Veda trivedi

I was walking today and one Seventh Day Adventist christian man, approached me (he knows I am a Krsna devotee).

 

Trying to convert me each time he sees me.

 

When this man could not succeed in swaying my mind today, he became aggressive. Such aggressiveness is a sure sign a man is not realized in what he preaches. He was a poor representative of his truth, just a bunch of self obsessed words.

 

He said, all hindus in India are fighting and oppossed to each other. And the Hindus killing christians in Orissa is proof of how evil hinduisim is. On that note I took his leave.

 

I have realized ignorance is simply seeing others as objects (for one's own gratification). The pitfall for many ignorant preachers.

 

We need to face facts, we are all in this illusory world together, deeply conditioned. An extremely selfish place often times.

 

Western born Krsna devotees are not agents of kali, but it seems any religious bent person (including these devotees), with dominating mood, will be kali's agent in future times (history has proven that).

 

We all know that since september 11th, dont we!

 

Pardon me in saying this, mlecha hindu, what a racial body minded comment that is.

 

Trivedi, the more I am realizing my falleness, the less I wish to say. I just pray for mercy. Otherwise I simply deepen my bondage for future lives. Please forgive me.

 

 

your servant.... the Mlecha!

[hindustani]

Shri Trivediji

In which chapter the said contents are there in Shri Padma Purana?

[Trivedi 3]

Respected Bija ji,

 

I am sorry iif I have hurt you inadvertently. I have no prejudice towards forigners. I know of forgniers who are much more seroiously and genuinly spiritual than my Indial folks. And by your postings I know you are one of them. I once again seek your pardon if I invoked hurt in such a fine krishna devotee and fine person like you.

 

My postings should be seen in a context. While I have no prejudice of forigners I should admit I am very weary of forigners as well as Indians who has no idea of Hindu spirituality and try to impose their narrow minded foolish and dangerous religious doctrines up on others. that too using Vedas and Hinduism. I personally view it as dangerous consequences. Besides they dont know the depth of fine Hindu spiritual values, they are trying to instrigate us and divide our unity which we have achieved long back in religious amity. Present Hindus no more fight against ourselves on religious issues, (once up on a time they were). And we dont want to regress to that primitive religious blood shetting stage. ( And I or any true hindu will not approve of the Orrisa insidences either. For true Hindu Krist is God and Christianity is a valied religion. And this is the point that i am making any way)

 

And I see most of the ISKON guys are trying to drag us to that primitive age by instrigating a Saiva - Vaishnava conflight, which we have solved long back. I simply do not tollerate this guys. No Hindu should, as this is not the Vedic and hense Hindu conception of religion. Vedic Religion is megnanimous. Unity is the central truth . Veda is Anti-parochial and conceives the whole world as one family. "All concepts of Mine and thyne is but parochila thinking For truely wise the whole world is one single family. (Vasudeva kudumbakam)" Declartes an Upanisad. I believe in this strongly and hense no prejudice against 'Mlechas'.

But I will contem any attempt from anybody who try to divide this unity and distroy the grand spiritual vision of Vedic path. Sanadhana darma is like a tree providing shade to all, including to the evil minded wood cutter who taking rest undershade to cut it down. But we cannot allow that . If we do that then by our refusal to fight against adharma support adarma .

 

I hope you see the context of posting and my appologies again if I have hurt your feeling. I appreciate yopur deep Krishna bhakti.

 

With deep respect,

Veda trivedi

[Trivedi 3]

 

Shri Trivediji

In which chapter the said contents are there in Shri Padma Purana?

 

Shri Hindustani,

 

I have read it long ago. My collection of puranas are all in Lucknow. I will get back to you as soon as I get back to Luknow and locate the source material. Even I am very much geared up to find this material now after reading all this puranic stuff stuff in this forum. I will post the exact sanscrit verses. Please wait till december , when I am planing to go home on my vacation.

 

Veda Trivedi

[hindustani]

Ok I shall wait for your feedback Shri Trivediji.

 

Please wait till december , when I am planing to go home on my vacation

[kaisersose]

 

Let me answer in Sukha Style. (Sukha was born enlightened and wanted to renounce the world and go to forest When his father Vyas told him that liberation is obtained by following the Orthodex rules. Sukha the born enlightened counters them radically. Though the following response is not exactly Sukhas, as your list is not exactly same as Vyas perscribes for his son, the response matches closely the Sukhas answer to his father).

 

If not eating meat could liberate being ( or whetever equilant you have for liberatioin as ultimate spiritual goal - like Goloka Heven perhaps) , then all the Goaes and fruit wormes would have been liberated ( or attained heaven) by now. If By not gambling one could be liberated then all the animals and mentally retarded would have been liberated. If by not intoxicating one could gain spiritual merit then again most of the animals would gain somuch of spiritual merit. And by not engaging in illict sex if liberation is gained then all the immpotent people would be liberated.

 

No my friend You dont undersetand anything of Hindu spirituality. By just following certain orthodex moral code of the society you dont become spiritual . By not eating onion by not betting in horse race, by not drinking soma rasa (which Vedic rishis themself drank) and by restriting your sex activity with only those licenced by society you dont become spiritual or Hindu.

 

Hiranyagarpa.

 

Well said. Yo took the words right out my mouth.

 

Bhaktajan's position is born out of confusing social "evils" and mixing them up with religion. The two are not related at all. Being religious/spiritual and being a model citizen are two different things.

 

Cheers

[bhaktajan]

"... If not eating meat could liberate being ( or whetever equilant you have for liberatioin as ultimate spiritual goal - like Goloka Heven perhaps) , then all the Goaes and fruit wormes would have been liberated ( or attained heaven) by now. ... "

 

[This shows you are bereft of Vedanta & Jnana & Dhayana & Sankhya aka knowledgable of elementary workings of material nature aka Hindu metaphysics]

 

" ... born out of confusing social "evils" and mixing them up with religion. ..."

 

.......................................................

Bhaktajan:

"confusing social "evils" are the anti-theisis of religion!

You are making this stuff up [bogus/insincere musings/pontifications extraordinaire/First Class Mis-direction. 'Pleseebo Comrade' for the false front you display is up for grabs.]

 

"All wellwishes posted on this Audarya Forum" site will be in vain only when "Cow-Protection" is legistated via a 'change-in-heart' --then love, peace, and mutual respect for our fellow man on this planet will accrue.

 

India and Asia etc have been pawns in corporate overlords--but that was for the greater good, No?

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

"... and mixing them up with religion. ..."

.......................................................

Bhaktajan:

Only when "Cow-Protection" is legislated via a 'change-in-heart' --then love, peace, and mutual respect for our fellow man on this planet will accrue.

 

Earn your self a "Nobel Peace Prize" --by plagerizing everything A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada has instructed --then you will be

recognized as a high thinking fellow.

 

The pressing Issue of Humanity's . . . Manifest Destiny:

 

Only when "Cow-Protection" is legislated via a 'change-in-heart' --then love, peace, and mutual respect for our fellow man on this planet will accrue.

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

[bija]

Thank you for sharing more of your perspective tri-vedi. I appreciate very much your stance to defend harmony, which has been a great foundation for your nation and its spirituality.

 

It is indeed deeply sad to see Kali's mark now touching all places in this world, including your homeland. To be honest, this sense of harmony is what has drawn many a westerner to this great spiritual heritage. Much different than the western sectarian views and its salvation. This harmony is worth defending.

 

Saying that, I take a lowly position, and foolishly dare to say Iskcon (and other associations) need to train their young followers with great wisdom, preparing them to spread the high teaching of Sri Caitanya. If their methods are creating disharmony (which has been proven), then things need to be re-evaluated.

 

Why? Simply because Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's message is profound and beautiful. We must remember, the neophyte devotees ways, do not always represent the purity of Guru's heart. Guru may let be, because he knows he cannot control the world, but only guide it - Isvara being the supreme. Guru has great faith in God in the final outcome - simple devotion.

 

 

y.s.

[bija]

 

From what I have heard several times, inside ISKCON, the value of a devotee is measured by the number of people he converts and/or the $$$ he is able to bring in. If that is true, this organization is no less materialistic than a law firm or any corporate sales division. by kaisersose

Firstly Kaisersose I would like to suggest this aggressive tactic by Iskcon booksellers may be a distortion of the founder acaryas original keeness to see books distributed.

 

I would base this suggestion on some key observations, and also the motivating force behind intense selling.

 

For example, I am the only Hare Krsna devotee here in town, and only person wearing kunti mala. Devotees from Iskcon come to town on pass through blitzs, to distribute. With an aim to distribute as many books as possible.

 

Two weeks ago two young devotees walked passed me on the street. I acknowledged them with a hello. They acknowldged they saw the kunti mala, but it was evident they had no intention to stop. This is the first proof of their intent.

 

As always I offered to buy a book, handing over a $20 bill. Infact it was my last money until the following payday. The devotee charged me the top price for the book. Which they are trained to do. I have no problem with this.

 

But I do have a problem with their strategies, which includes no follow up to the people they sell to. Several times a year they come to town and make good money, but I have not seen one devotee manifest here from there efforts. It makes me wonder what these men are actually being trained up for. Sure they have great philosophy to share (which should be the key motivation - not book numbers and money), but if book numbers and dollars become the essence of intention...I see this as a false idol, lacking personal touch (within a philosophy that is based on personalism!).

 

Last year I sat back and watched two devotees selling here in town, using their strategies and techniques. I can see things on a very subtle level due to a siddhi. Many of the customers were bewildered and pressured, walking away with as many books as the devotees could offload. They were also offending many by their pressure techniques.

 

Ofcourse all this behaviour is justified as the way. Such preaching actually bares very little fruit in the heart of the recipients. It is most unfortunate that book points is justified by sastra and Guru siksa.

[Amlesh]

I somewhat agree with Kaisersose... i've heard and seen about the merciless, cut throat, competitive, merciless world with its value for money.

Can't say less about Iskcon [done with great diplomacy].

But I understand even the CEO of Iskcon has to report.

[Amlesh]

Thanks Bija, for your sharing. You see things AS IT IS.

Your experience and evaluation is an eye opener to many neophyte devotees.

[bija]

It is not pleasing to my heart to fault-find Amlesh (still sorting the mess of my own life of ignorance). But maybe kaisersose is correct when he says times have changed in 2008. In general there seems to be an evolution in spiritual/psychic sensitivity (even if unaware)...that calls for deeper respect of others. This is a global natural organic phenomenon, not just individual maturation, in my opinion. This sick global organism is one, and it will self heal out of necessity. Nature and its crashes will take good care of that.

 

If that respect is honored, then Sri Caitanya's movement will flourish under his order, otherwise kaisersose's bleak predicition of an impotent movement may happen.

 

What does humble as a blade of grass mean? and tolerant as a tree? Nothing but showing deepest respect to all others. All siddhas would fall in dandavats to any entity. They are the perfect examples.

 

The last few days I have been very sick with a virus. A day before that one traveller (sadhu) hippie came through town. I set him up for a night stay with shower and prasadam. Ironically he had just come from the city and devotees had offended him with pressure. After he took refreshment he thanked me for restoring his faith in Sri Krsna. He was fortunate, I was grateful. Two healed souls. The sickness that came upon me produced fever...a purgative (and hankering).

 

Some thoughts.

 

y.s.

 

Hari! Hari!

[balachandranv]

bhaktajan,

dont think that u r intelligent than others.i knew that u dont know anything other than bhagvat geetha.the way u send photos of the small childrens laughing,do u think it is the right way to spread ur spirituality? i am repeatedly telling u.i appreciate ur bhakthi towards lord krishna.u have the rights to speak about lord krishna but u dont have rights to speak about any other god.u r discouraging every one's bhakthi.u r adding ur sins by sending these kind of messages.there is no mercy for that.u will learn it in future.i know about ISCON.they have a separate session to speak wrong things about other god's especially lord shiva.if this is gonna continue,even lord krishna cant help u guys.it is very easy to irritate others.all the gods work for dharma.if u dont understand this simple conept,u r not even fit to be a spiritual guy.i am repeatedly tellng u,its ur attitude.i mean ISCON's attitude.but remember one thing.dont think that v r fools to listen to ur words and get converted.v r more intelligent then u.

[vivek.gms]

Hinduism: Time for reforms and expansion

The more I read about Hinduism, the more I love it. I can’t differentiate growth of Hinduism and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region>. One nurtured other and we enjoyed great civilization for thousands of years and will enjoy it for unlimited years ahead. But, the time has come to go beyond <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> once again.

Hinduism evolved over thousands of years. Our great ancestors did research and found many ways to reach God. They said the universal reality is the same (God); different people call it by different names. Through those great efforts we produced concepts like,

 

• Vasudaika Kutumbam –one universal family.
  
• Vedanta- Dwaita & Adwaita dharma.
  
• Concept of Atma.
  
• Bakti, Karma, Jnana and Raja yogas.

It preached equality of all human beings (Hindu or non-Hindu). Like every ancient society we had our Gods. But, at higher levels of realization all of them represented one absolute God.

Apart from concept of God, Hindus also developed defense systems, meditation, yoga, martial arts, astrology, mathematics, medicine and other arts and sciences. In the process <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> became rich, affluent and powerful. A lot of people from across the world migrated to <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region>.

To accommodate expanding society and for convenience, various systems were developed. But, over a period of time some of these systems become out dated. They don’t change with time.

There are mainly two things we need to handle at this stage:

 

• Caste System.
  
• Rituals and number of Gods we have.

We should take steps to make all hindus are equal in society (not just in writings). We should establish systems to make every one equal. Encouraging inter-caste marriages and teaching vedic literature to every hindu are initial steps we can take to move towards our goal of social equality.

Some of our rituals really unnecessary and some of them are incorporated to give benefits to certain sections. We have a lot of Gods. Why? The answer I got after search is every sect that entered <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> bought its own Gods (All ancient societies had separate set of their own Gods). In some places in Andhra Pradesh, village Gods in adjacent villages is different. Now we need to rationalize Gods. It’s for our unity, to remove confusion, making people get red of false assumption/beliefs and for realization of God. Please remember, Hinduism teaches us that at higher levels of consciousness there is only one absolute God. All other Gods, deities, sages, gurus are showing us a way to reach God. Idol worship facilitates this process and it gives a lot of satisfaction. Idols are like keeping photographs of gods with us.

I thought about a few points to make transition or to bring much needed change or rejuvenate the great religion:

 

• Caste system reforms.
  
• Reducing no. of Gods. 10-15 is the ideal number. Every hindu prays to all or any one of these Gods: Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Durga, Ganesh and Hanuman. One thing is clear “cow is not a God”.
  
• Martial arts schools. Power listens to power only. We need to strengthen our brothers to fight if necessary.
  
• Schools for Vedanta literature and handling rituals.
  
• Uniting Hindus all over world.
  
• Establishing centre to discuss about God and social systems.
  
• Establishing panel for rewriting some of our religious books.
  
• Expanding Hinduism all over the world. Because it’s the only answer for world peace and the way to realize God.

Please remember Sri Adi Shankaracharya and Swami Vivekananda preached change during their period, opposed some of the systems in Hinduism and united all hindus.

Thanks for reading this article. Discuss your views with me. Please exchange this article with many of your friends, family and discuss this.

[atanu]

 

1) Originally Posted by Bhaktajan

Vaishnavas, such as Lord Shiva-ji are also seeking Moksha at the end of his life time so that he can retire to repose himself in Govinda's embrace.

 

2) Originally Posted by Smiley

Bhaktajan, could you please elaborate on this statement?

I had not heard this idea before.

3) Originally Posted by Trivedi

Obviously You could not have heard this idea before - no one heard it before -

........................................................................................................

Here is what I learnt from the most historically impressive Holyman that ever hailed from India, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada:

 

Bhagavata-Purana 1.2.26:

"Those who are serious about liberation are certainly nonenvious, and they respect all. Yet they reject the horrible and ghastly forms of the demigods and worship only the all-blissful forms of Lord Vishnu and His plenary portions."

 

 

 

Bhakta,

 

After reading through your seemingly masterful;) responses (which actually reveal 'I know all' pomposity) to Lord Shiva bhaktas, I feel that you are not doing full justice to Swami Prabhupada. Can't you support your contentions from some valid scripture to validate your purports?

 

C'mon. You should be able to do it -- . C'mon. If you cannot do it, then accept that.

 

Om