spreading lord shiva awareness across world

[kaisersose]

 

Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

 

You do know that the mission (of life) is to spread Krishna Bhakti.

 

 

 

No. we do not.

 

Only Hare Krishnas would see that as a life mission because that is what they have been told by their Gurus. And Hks are a small percentage of the world's population. How does the mission of this tiny group become a unversal mission that applies to everyone, past, present and future?

 

Get off your high horse, my friend. Billions of people lived & died on this planet without hearing ever the name Krishna. Billions of pople are living and will live in future, who will never hear Krishna's name. Billions of unfulfilled missions by your logic. This is like your colleague theist saying the mother of all religions in the thousands of years of religious history of the world is the 400 year Bengali Gaudiya Vaishnavism!

 

Taking one' personal beliefs - adopted by a small set of people - and attaching unviersal status to them is just plain arrogance and mind-numbingly stupid.

 

Cheers

[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by Kaisersose

"Taking one' personal beliefs - adopted by a small set of people - and attaching unviersal status to them is just plain arrogance and mind-numbingly stupid.

Cheers"

..........................................................

 

Kaisersose--admitted numb skull?

 

"People" --What do you know about people?

Billions of wars are fought and only the leaders are required to win by statergy.

Only the winners will atone for their sins by the end of the day.

Only the Heads of Society are afforded high learning and knowledge.

 

Get off you high horse and accept that you are a sudra --not that there is any thing wrong with that-- many sudras earn more wealth than Doctors [they just circulate in different stratums of Society].

 

You seemed worried that your ambitions will be annihilated by so-called insignificant HKs--get used to the idea!

 

Beware "frog-in-the-well" satisfaction in life. Beware of seing meager subsistance as the goal of life--not that there is any thing wrong with that.

 

The history of The Making of Civilization is built upon military grave site after grave site--you are not the solution.

 

You are confusing your opinions of the HKs with the lonely existential denizens of your eastern european foothill relatives--that is certainly the center of the worlds missed-opportunities.

 

This tiny group is a unversal mission that applies to everyone--Your welcomed!

 

I am on a high horse and that is the story!

 

You are free to cut off your offending bits--as you pursue your own motives.

My colleagues are correct--your colleagues are invaribly going to be conscripted into military service.

 

Taking SANATANA-DHARMA beliefs and waiting out the storm is what you can't handle.

 

But at least the petty pleasures of life is what fullfills you--as you equate it a void in space to the void in your heart.

 

I would like to demean your very existance and your short lifespan using the most high-brow condescention--but you know perfectly my beliefs, not.

 

So be happy and prosper while you flash in the pan,

Bhaktajan

 

PS: take my advise and do not pursue a career in "Advertising" or "Govermental Prapaganda"--you have no clue how to brain-wash people.

 

Just be a consumer living blissfully eating, sleeping, mating and defending--and call a doctor if it persists for more than 4 hours at a pop.

[Ravindran Kesavan]

 

Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

 

You do know that the mission (of life) is to spread Krishna Bhakti.

 

So Lord Shiva's devotion to Vishnu has bloomed--and you are learning about Krishna Bhakti through Lord Shiva's mercy.

 

Lord Shiva protects vaishnavas or isconites like me.

So it is my aim to please Lord Shiva by wishing you to receive Krishna brahmana-shabda (Krishna's Words).

 

You will learn that service to Vishnu is what Lord Shiva is meditating on.

Lord Shiva expects you to serve Krishna.

 

When you distribute Bhaktivedanta Svami's Translations you will see the expansions of Durga/Shakti & Rudha in the faces and lives of those who contribute donations in exchange for Bhaktivedanta Svami's Translations --this type of work can only be done who are highly renounced--because such tapasya speaks to Paramatma within in the stranger's heart and the Maya of that stranger (who accepts copies of Bhaktivedanta Svami's Translations) flees upon contact with a humble Krishna-Bhakta.

 

The Bhakta learns who to "avoid" the sympathetic tormoil that arises when a neophyte/stranger relises that all of their life's trappings are about seeking only one person's darshan--this is what Shiva's one-pointed tapasya has taught me.

otherwise one

 

Dear Bhaktajan,

 

It is nice to see the change and development in your spiritual stance from your original position. You have graduated from thinking Siva as being destructive and unworthy of worship and all that stuff (c.f. your first response post ) to Lord Siva being the protecter of Vaishnavas and you. That is good spiritual progress.

 

There is a few more steps ahead for you to be fully metured spiritually. You still think that Balachandran has been send to you by Siva to learn from you. That may not be the case. For all I know from my experience Lord Siva is a grand and ultimate teacher in spiritual deciplines and he teaches all that is there to learn in spirituality - he does not need any one to teach spiritual knowledge. He is the original and universal guru and a Siva bhakta doesnot require to go to any other gurus.

 

On the otherhand the purpose of Blachandran's reaching you might be to teach you certain spiritual lession that you need to learn in your Vaishnava achara. Lord siva has sent him to be your teacher and not the otherway round - and you are already learning spiritually from his interaction, as I can see it. Now only one more step is required. You need to realise that Lord Siva - your protecter - wants you to do Vaishnava bhakti properly and has sent his Bakta to teach you as your Guru. You need to leave your ego - that you are his teacher - and surrender to his holy feet as your spiritual Siva guru, serve him and learen from him. Lord Siva's grace has fallen on you now. This is the way you should take it.

 

I mean this sincerly knowing Lord Siva's ways. His deciples must be taken as his representatives, and I have learned it the hard way in my spiritual life. They can teach you mega lessions even if they look very ordinary, because it is Lord Siva who function through them. You are lucky my friend, that Lord Siva is instructing you and dont miss the opportunity to serve Him and learn from Him.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[bija]

 

Lord siva has sent him to be your teacher and not the otherway round - and you are already learning spiritually from his interaction, as I can see it.

you are a wise ol' fella I say...guru 'is' everywhere.

[Radhe_Shyam]

Pranam Bhaktajan Ji .

I am a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> bhakta , And I want to share my spiritual experience with you. What follows is a true life story of mine.

It is very true that Lord Siva is a grand Guru for all – even to Vaishnavas.- and a Siva bhakta is Siva himself and should be treated as our Guru. I did not know this before as I was stupid Bhakta. But my life experience made me realize this.

I have been a Krishna bhakta since my child hood and wanted to see <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> directly. In this craving I went to ISKCON and got initiated to the Hare Krishna Mahamantra. In spite of chanting it for 32 lakhs of times (As many lakhs as there are letters in the mahamantra) I did not see <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. But <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> was kind enough to appear in my dream and advised me to find a Siddha guru and get initiated - to succeed in the mantra sdadana.

I did not know where to find a Siddha guru when even ISKCON, is not qualified to be a place of siddhas of the mantra. Then a pious man advised that Lord Siva is the guru for all mantras. Then I fasted and prayed to Lord Siva on a Sivaratri, to be my guru. Then a few days latter a Siva monk from Himalaya who was on his way back to <st1:place w:st="on">Himalaya</st1:place> after his visit of Kumbamela at Triambakeswar landed to my house asking for a days stay. I gladly offered him my house. But I was arrogant enough to preach him that <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> bhakti is supreme and he should follow that path, leaving his Siva asceticism. He appreciated me for my deep <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> bhakti . When he was leaving offered me a small Krishna Idol saying that he cannot take care of Krishna as I could, and hence from now onwards I should take care of Krishna, and initiated me with a one syllable Krishna mantra , and the method of ritualistic worship of the Krishna idol and left.

When I started to meditate on the mantra silently with closed eyes almost with in a few minutes <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> appeared in my heart very clear and very charming. Then he told me to take care of him in the external world and jumped out of my heart to the Idol. When I opened my eyes I found real <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> in front of me. Though I got jittered initially that I am going mad or that the monk has done some black magic, <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> cleared all that doubt and I knew in due course it is a genuine spiritual vision.

I asked <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> why he dint come before when I was chanted so much of Mahamantra. <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> told me that the mantra was not a siddhamantra – I did not get it from a siddha guru. Now the mantra I am meditating came from a Siddha guru that it bears fruits immediately. I asked him how come that a Siva monk is a siddha guru of a Krishna mantra, and a guru from <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> bhakti tradition like ISKCON itself is not a Siddha guru. <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> told me that Lord Siva is the guru for all the Vidyas and initiated by him all the mantras will bear fruit. All vidyas are his, including Vaishnava vidyas and with out his grace no vidya will bear fruit. Krishna declared that A Siva guru is a Siddha guru .He advised me to treat the Siva guru are Siva himself and should not be treated as ordinary human being. I was ashamed of my arrogance that I ventured to teach and preach Krishna bhakti to Lord Siva when in actuality I am a worm in compared to Him, who in fact magnanimously came to full fill my desire of giving me <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> darsana. . I realized how stupid I was. Now I am more metrue. While I strill remain a strong Krishna bhakta , I treat all Siva bhaktas as Siva’s aspects and as my gurus as per <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>’s own advice and I should admit I have only gained tremendous spiritual virtue.

Radhe Shyam

[Radhe_Shyam]

 

 

 

On the otherhand the purpose of Blachandran's reaching you might be to teach you certain sapiritual lession that you need to learn in your Vaishnava achara. Lord siva has sent him to be your teacher and not the otherway round - and you are already learning spiritually from his interaction, as I can see it. Now only one more step is required. You neesd to realise that Lord Siva - your protecter - wants you to do Vaishnava bhakti properly and has sent his Bakta to teach you as your Guru. You need to leave your ego and surrender to his holy feet as your spiritual Siva guru Serve him and learen from him. Lord Siva's grace has fallen on you now. This is the way you should take it.

 

I mean this sincerly knowing Lord Siva's ways. His deciples must be taken as his representatives, and I have learned it the hard way in my spiritual life. They can teach you mega lessions even if they look very ordinary, because it is Lord Siva who function through them. You are lucky my friend, that Lord Siva is instructing you and dont miss the opportunity to serve Him and learn from Him.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

 

How true! What wise words!

My lifwe is an example for this.

 

Radhe Shyam

[Ravindran Kesavan]

 

you are a wise ol' fella I say...guru 'is' everywhere.

 

Well, to recognise the truth in it, you must be wise too Bija. There is a Zen saying : "A snake will know the legs of another Snake".

 

I have oftern received profound spiritual lessions and instructions from even children as young as three years of age . And they taught me in the form of (Disguise of) child's play .

 

God is every where. I worshipped god as my teacher and god taught me from anywhere and every where.

 

By the by I liked very much your dream that you shared elsewhere: to have an ecofriendly biodiverse zone and a house there, or something to that effect.

A spiritual man like you need also a spiritual environment - a sat sang - association with spiritually advanced souls. It is a nice idea to create a matt of this sort in an ecologically enriched biodiverse locality.

 

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

[srikanthdk71]

 

"People" --What do you know about people?

Billions of wars are fought and only the leaders are required to win by statergy.

 

You admit that you are fighting a war with a leader in SP.

 

 

Only the winners will atone for their sins by the end of the day.

 

This looks like a Jehadis words.

 

 

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Hi Srikanth , welcome back. How was your vacation?

 

K.Ravindran

[bhaktajan]

Srikanth,

 

Um Pah Loom Pha!

 

Ya gotta watch "Little Britain" [brit Television Comedy] --the new Monty Python.

 

I envy you mate, ya must have the best stash of primo contraband --it shows, yes I mean it does shows--wink wink say no more, say no more. Know what I mean? Know what I mean?.

 

You're sooo cute Sri Sri ji! When your tripping.

 

Too bad about your problem handling the Truth and how you don't except Vyasadeva's recitations & Ganapati's handwritting compilation of the history of the great ancestry of Bharata going back to Maha-Pita-ma Prajapati Sri Brahma Deva-ji, replete with an extensive family lineage of both the Raghu & Soma Vamshas.

...........................................................................

 

1)--HEY EVERYBODY,

I HAVE NOT SAID A SINGLE BAD THING ABOUT LORD SHIVA, NEVER!!!

 

I CHALLENDGE YOU TO FIND A SUCH A STATEMENT ANYWHERE ON THIS FORUM!!!

 

2)--Post Lord Shiva's Glories!

Show me the Nectar!

Where's the nectar?

If you don't --you again leave it to me to share Lord Shiva's Glories with my Fellow Vaishnavas.

 

3)--Advaita is a word indicating the "the final Goal of Philosophical searchings".

 

But Advaita springs from the same philosophy spoken by Kapila to his mother Devahuti [wife of Kasyapa pajapati approx 2.16 Billions BC at the time of the 1st Manu, Svayambhuva]--this ABC's of metaphysics and analythical study of the nature of 'nature, et al' --was understood as the basis of Hindu Mysticism.

 

Hindu Mysticism is based of "Knowledge and Detachment"--speak of the pre-requisite terms and concepts that a real student of Advaita would use to discuss Advaita and what it signifies --you are all omitting to explain:

 

"the pre-requisite terms and concepts that a real student of Advaita would use to discuss Advaita".

 

Why should I not "string you along" --as long as possible as I covertly repeat Hari-nama in my postings and ask that a path be made visible that the Mysteries of the Ancient India's Scriptures can roll out Krishna's Ratha at the start of the day.

 

4)--"I can just say HKs to just shut the hell up talking of Sanatana Dharma. They have no moral right."[sriKanth rant] --yall is tripping. May your efforts be spared and may you find repose where it is best befitting your progressive values of life . . .

 

5)--"atone for their sins by the end of the day"[bhakatajan] --aka 'Prayas-citta' --look it up and you too can be as cool as I am and thus you too will exit through the preferable gate at quiting time, Know what I mean? Know what I mean?

 

6)--"Only the Heads of Society are afforded high learning and knowledge"[bhakatajan]. --If this is not available in your home country --don't worry! One day Democratic Rule of Law will be found even in the last vestiges of the "laws of the jungle" are converted into tourist safaris.

 

Surely a community College would be a step up for you! Don't think any body elses crap is more aromatic than your own--GO GET EM! Best Wishes in your pursuit of Higher Education of the ways of the greater world beyond your nanda-grham or personal go-shala.

[atanu]

 

Srikanth,

 

Um Pah Loom Pha!

 

Ya gotta watch "Little Britain" [brit Television Comedy] --the new Monty Python.

-

You're sooo cute Sri Sri ji! When your tripping.

 

1)--HEY EVERYBODY,

I HAVE NOT SAID A SINGLE BAD THING ABOUT LORD SHIVA, NEVER!!!

 

I CHALLENDGE YOU TO FIND A SUCH A STATEMENT ANYWHERE ON THIS FORUM!!!

 

 

 

The following were your original comments:

 

 

--Your post prompts me to ask you, Why propagate Shiva's Fame? As the chief of Annihilation, darkness and ignorance why would anyone be interested in Shiva's Devotees' preaching?

--We want democracy and liberty and civility and work. Lord Shiva is an ascetic lest he becomes a botheration ---.

---Even Arjuna is more famous: ---

 

Do you not understand what you write??

[hindustani]

Few people forget sometime or most of time in this case what they wrote or said,well said Atanu.

Do you not understand what you write??

[bhaktajan]

Q. -- Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

hindustani:

atanu:

srikanthdk71:

kaisersose:

Ans. -- No. we do not.

 

.......................................................................................

 

Q -- Do you not understand what you write??

Bhaktajan:

A -- I HAVE NOT SAID A SINGLE BAD [offensive] THING ABOUT LORD SHIVA, NEVER!!!

 

.......................................................................................

 

Lesson: The term, "Bogie-yogi" really refers to common men with an unmitigated habit of self-engrandisment --without actually saying anything.

 

the maxim is, "A Fool remains concealed until he opens his mouth" --show me the Sastra!!!

 

Opps, what sastra? Vyasadeva's?

 

Well maybe a small bit of it--but it's changed, it's not authentic, it's not Vedic, it's not valid, it's not we know in the foothills of my pradesha, it's not what keeps me puffed-up, it's not the revelation of Gabriel?

 

The Glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and his servants, are not good enough for some humans, correct?

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

I love this painting of Siva, the great expansion of Lord Krishna

 

[hindustani]

Mahashay Sarva Gattah

For below picture kindly search google for --

Shri Chakra/shri Yantra,Shri Tripura Sundari and you will get correct answers.

 

 

 

 

[srikanthdk71]

 

I envy you mate, ya must have the best stash of primo contraband --it shows, yes I mean it does shows--wink wink say no more, say no more. Know what I mean? Know what I mean?.

 

You're sooo cute Sri Sri ji! When your tripping.

 

Yeah, only we know each other better and contradict and follow one another so religiously almost in all threads.

 

 

Too bad about your problem handling the Truth and how you don't except Vyasadeva's recitations & Ganapati's handwritting compilation of the history of the great ancestry of Bharata going back to Maha-Pita-ma Prajapati Sri Brahma Deva-ji, replete with an extensive family lineage of both the Raghu & Soma Vamshas.

 

I have also given my reasons for not accepting in the thread 'Listening to the name of Lord in the lips of Mayavadis' and had a fair debate with DW. As a refresher for those who came in late, i said 'A single quote from Bhagavatam which is worshipped so dearly by the Vaishnavas finds no mention both in the works of Sri Adi Shankara and Sri Ramanujacharya. So, its existance in that period is questionable. But suddenly from nowhere it was all Bhagavatam in the period of Madhvacharya whose Dvaita philosophy finds respect only in parts of Karnataka confined mostly to the Kanara region.'

 

...........................................................................

 

 

1)--HEY EVERYBODY,

I HAVE NOT SAID A SINGLE BAD THING ABOUT LORD SHIVA, NEVER!!!

 

I CHALLENDGE YOU TO FIND A SUCH A STATEMENT ANYWHERE ON THIS FORUM!!!

 

Who started the thread 'This Shiva is a Bogus Demigod'

 

 

2)--Post Lord Shiva's Glories!

Show me the Nectar!

Where's the nectar?

If you don't --you again leave it to me to share Lord Shiva's Glories with my Fellow Vaishnavas.

 

Nectar is in the panchakshari 'Om Namah Shivayah'. I have shown it. Try it. Nectar is in your Atma. Find its definition. It says 'Shivam Shantam Advaitam Chaturtamanyante Sa Atma Sabigyeyah'. It means any being is not devoid of Shivam.

 

 

[ARJ]

 

I love this painting of Siva, the great expansion of Lord Krishna

 

why do you need Shiva as an expansion of Krishna ?

[balachandranv]

arj,

as ravindran and raje shyam told that shiva bhakthi is always important.lord shiva is the guru who enlightens the knowledge."guru" gives u the gyanam.he teaches us everything.remember onething,v cant preach god directly. there must a guru to guide us.that is the main reason.lord shiva gives everything.if u ask for moksha he can give u.if u ask for vishnu bhakthi,he will give u.he looks very simple,but he is very powerful.tapasya is very important.meditate towards lord shiva,so that even ur krishna bhakthi will be more as u expected.

[balachandranv]

bhaktajan,

in ur posts, uve sent

 

"Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

You do know that the mission (of life) is to spread Krishna Bhakti.

So Lord Shiva's devotion to Vishnu has bloomed--and you are learning about Krishna Bhakti through Lord Shiva's mercy.

Lord Shiva protects vaishnavas or isconites like me.

So it is my aim to please Lord Shiva by wishing you to receive Krishna brahmana-shabda (Krishna's Words).

You will learn that service to Vishnu is what Lord Shiva is meditating on.

Lord Shiva expects you to serve Krishna.

When you distribute Bhaktivedanta Svami's Translations you will see the expansions of Durga/Shakti & Rudha in the faces and lives of those who contribute donations in exchange for Bhaktivedanta Svami's Translations --this type of work can only be done who are highly renounced--because such tapasya speaks to Paramatma within in the stranger's heart and the Maya of that stranger (who accepts copies of Bhaktivedanta Svami's Translations) flees upon contact with a humble Krishna-Bhakta.

The Bhakta learns who to "avoid" the sympathetic tormoil that arises when a neophyte/stranger relises that all of their life's trappings are about seeking only one person's darshan--this is what Shiva's one-pointed tapasya has taught me.

otherwise one" --> bhaktajan

 

i told jai sri jagatguru adi sankaracharya spreaded b.geetha.lord shiva always does his duty (preserving vedas).i meant that only bcoz of guru adi sankaracharya,even b.geetha was spreaded all over india. lord shiva even protects lord vishnu's dharma.dont think that lord shiva is dependent upon lord krishna or ord vishnu.it doesnt mean that.he proved that he is not selfish.he invites everyone and what ever u ask,he will give u.if u need krishna bhakthi,he can give u that also.ofcourse he wants us to serve everyone.thats the mind set v have.thats what even v r doing.vaishnavas after making their prayers finally they meditate toward lord shiva.this is bcoz their bhakthi will increase tremondously.but many such wrong things r taught in ISCON.they even plan a seperate session for scolding lord shiva.is that a dharma? this is what lord krishna's dharma? v never do such mistakes.u know onething every time u called lord shiva as a demi god.i really felt so sad.then how do u think lord shiva has so many temples being a negative power.hows it possible? a thief who mistakenly dropped leaves on lord shiva linga from a tree for a time pass became one of the best bhaktas of lord shiva.lord shiva made him to realise his mistake then he then stopped stealing.there r many incidents which i can quote.unknowingly lord shiva gives them bhakthi and teaches them dharma.think about it.he even drank a poison which would have destroyed everyone,even lord vishnu would have been dead.send ur reply with out b.geetha quotes. i want explanations not slokas.

[suchandra]

 

why do you need Shiva as an expansion of Krishna ?

 

 

Good point, it is said, eko vai narayana asin na brahma na isano napo nagni-samau neme dyav-aprthivi na naksatrani na suryah: "In the beginning of the creation there was only the Supreme Personality Narayana. There was no Brahma, no Siva, no fire, no moon, no stars in the sky, no sun." (Maha Upanisad 1) In the Maha Upanisad it is also said that Lord Siva was born from the forehead of the Supreme Lord. Thus the Vedas say that it is the Supreme Lord, the creator of Brahma and Siva, who is to be worshiped.

 

In the Moksa-dharma Krsna also says,

 

prajapatim ca rudram capy

aham eva srjami vai

tau hi mam na vijanito

mama maya-vimohitau

 

 

"The patriarchs, Siva and others are created by Me, though they do not know that they are created by Me because they are deluded by My illusory energy." In the Varaha Purana it is also said,

 

narayanah paro devas

tasmaijatas caturmukhah

tasmad rudro 'bhavad devah

sa ca sarva-jnatam gatah

 

 

"Narayana is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and from Him Brahma was born, from whom Siva was born."

[hindustani]

Suchandra tell me how God Shiva BORN?

[bhaktajan]

Who started the thread 'This Shiva is a Bogus Demigod'?

--Not Bhaktajan {so says I, yours truely, Bhaktajan.}

--I do not think any one started a thread 'This Shiva is a Bogus Demigod'?

--nor hav I heard anyone say, 'Shiva is a Bogus Demigod'?

 

'Lord Shiva is one of the three-predominating Demigods'--the Hindu trinity that oversees all the Devas [& Devis too] whose sport is the stuff of the celestrial stratum, high above Dhruva-Loka and the tops of the Loka-Loka Mountains.

 

The Great White light (aka, brahmajyoti ) = <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comKrishna</st1:place>'s bodily glow.

The brahmajyoti is described in the Brahma-samhita as the rays emanating from that supreme spiritual planet, Goloka Våndavana, just as the sun’s rays emanate from the sun globe. Until one surpasses the glare of the brahmajyoti, one cannot receive information of the land of the Lord.

The impersonalist philosophers, blinded as they are by the dazzling brahmajyoti, can realize neither the factual abode of the Lord nor His transcendental form. Limited by their poor fund of knowledge, such impersonalist thinkers cannot understand the all-blissful transcendental form of Lord Kåñëa.

In this prayer, therefore, Sri Ishopaniñad petitions the Lord to remove the effulgent rays of the brahmajyoti so that the pure devotee can see His all-blissful transcendental form.

By realizing the impersonal brahmajyoti, one experiences the auspicious aspect of the Supreme, and by realizing the Paramatma, or all-pervading feature of the Supreme, one experiences an even more auspicious enlightenment. But by meeting the Personality of Godhead Himself face to face, the devotee experiences the most auspicious feature of the Supreme.

 

...........................................................................................

...........................................................................................

The Family Tree of all the personalities of the Veda

As found in the Bhagavata-purana

There is an actual family tree described in approximately 563 Slokas.

These Slokas delineate the family lineages starting with Brahma [including all the Prajapatis, Manus, the Soma & the Surya Dynasties] up until the 11th Century C.E..

Approximately 2,500 names [including wives are listed]

Avataras and their family lineage is included too—which brings us to the Puranas and before that to the various Vedic Books that re-tell ancient events among the Devas in their youth.

In the Bhagavata-purana the family tree Starts with & proceeds as follows:

1) Brahma's Birth [155 Trillion B.C.] — Brahma's children — Brahma's Daughter-in-law & Son-in-laws — Brahma's grandchildren — Brahma's great-grandchildren

2) Brahma's first 50 years of his life have already passed —

3) Brahma's awakes afresh at the start of the Present Day (kalpa) — the first Manu (svayambhuva) is born — Kasyapa & his cousins re-populate the Universe (prajapatis)

4) The first to 6<SUP>th</SUP> Manus born, live and pass.

5) The 7<SUP>th</SUP> Manu is born

3) At the end of the 1<SUP>st</SUP> Maha-yuga of the 7<SUP>th</SUP> Manu— Mother Revati leaves to seek Husband (and 27 Maha-yuga later arrives to marry Balarama).

4) We are here now in the 28th Maha-yuga epoch [out of 71] of the present 7<SUP>th</SUP> Manu.

5) The family tree continues until the 11<SUP>th</SUP> Century CE.

The watch word for being given this data from Vyasadeva, IMO, is a matter of "Orientation" —as in finding our way in and around a forest and knowing where our cousins and Uncles homes are to be found.

.....................................................................................................................

Bhaktajan's point in posting the above:

The reason for various seemingly contradictory statements in the Vedas, and also, in seemingly contradictory statements in the Puranas about pastimes of persons mentioned in different puranas etc is:

The events happened in vastly different epochs and vastly different places —attended by a few most famous personalities and also attended by mutitudes of Sadhus, rishis and celestial near-do-wells —therefore the re-counting of Vedic events of antiquity contain points-of-view from sources that witnessed the same events from different vantage points.

Also, the Demigods are prone to mistakes, bad-manners, momentary lapses of judgment, lust pursuits etc —so eventhough their behavior is exemplary it contains all the variety of Celestial Soap-Operas [novellas] that spring from the Human-condition [Demigod-condition].

Remember, Daksha, Durvasa and what to speak of Big-Big Asuras who made mistakes when they could have enjoyed the good life into their dotage years.

Why would Indra not recognize the advent of Vishnu's origin incarnate, <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>?

Because of supreme conceit. But the Devas are not self-hating soul killers —they live a polished life of opulence with their duties to perform for the good of all sentient beings and also for the maintenance of the physical structure of the cosmos.

Getting oriented,

Bhaktajan

[bhaktajan]

This is what I, Bhaktajan, posted:

"This Shiva is God Stuff is Bogus."

 

Lord Shiva is the Brother of the Kumaras & Narada etc.

When Lord Brahma passes away --so will all pass away by merging back into MAhaVisnu's Breathing.

The Hiarchy of the Descendants of Lord Brahma Maha-pita-ma [Great Grand Father] of the Celestial "Demi-gods" is known.

Shiva is Brahma's Son.

Shiva & Brahma are Jiva-atmas.

Visnu is a 'plenary expansion' of God in the Material Worlds.

But don't let me dissuade you from pursuing your passion.

Your evident devotion will bring you to the service of Mahesh's other more-seasoned servants in due time.

Since Lord Shiva is a Vaishnava without equal then we must invoke his protection from maya & her illusory spells and her servants too.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

There is a family tree of the Bhagavatam --Starting with Lord Brahma's First children and Grandpa is in charge.

PSSSSSS: Grandpa is Brahmaji. Plaese don't conflate your, maybe, dysfunctional family up-bringing with the Hierarchy of the 'First family'.

How many time must I repeat before you see the obvious relationship of the Devatas to eachother and the Supreme Soul/First Person/The Supreme Enjoyer????

Brahma is the First born person in the cosmos --he proceeded to populate the Brahmanda [universe] --the Family Tree of Personalities comprising the descendents of Brahma are enumerated thoroughly in the BHagavata-purana.

Vedic literatures are Histories of the act/dictums/experiences of ancient personalities of importance to the welfare of all living entities.

These Vedic literatures were compiled 5,000 years ago by Vyasadev

[the literary incarnation of God]

--but, these Vedic literatures relate stories/lessons/mantras/events of persons in vastly distant epochs;

ie: the span of time between Brahma's youth, offspring;

and then Prahlad Maharaj's life then Revati's Father's search for a husband

[vis, Balarama];

Lord Rama's pastimes are all examples of Famous events that occured in vastly different time eras, and so their 'story' came into existence in different epochs.

Many of these historical accounts where recounted by different Personages

[who witness or lived during or heard from someone related to the Pastime] in different Vedic literatures-- these different Personages recounted the various Vedic Histories from their vantage point.

Also, some of these pastimes in Sastra may have occured more then once-- in different Kalpas.

Also, many Sastras are found unabridged in the Heavenly planets in the celestrial realms high above the north star [Dhruva-Loka].

<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> has spoken and we should not be envious of our own selves in regards to the welfare of our own future birth.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

<st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> in Vraja-vrindavana is a kid in a transcendental kinder-garten! Yah?

Anyway there is only one father! It's the same father.

But someone insists on being an orphan who needs special attention.

If there is absolutely one father then he has his own absolute traits.

Polytheism is too much to campaign for during this era of Islamic terrorism.

We are in war time. Such mundane historical pastimes are repugnant, but that is after the fact.

We have a sales man on a mission chiming in with atonal song and dance while the Chorus is practicing.

Anyway why can't we be aggressive with out crying and going home.

<st1:place w:st="on">Rugby</st1:place> and Football are smash'em up sport--it's all par for the course.

Just keep trying harder, with more and more conclusive discussion, especially when challenged. No?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..

1) The souls of the Devas (ie: Shiva) are born from Lord Brahma & merged into the waters of devastation during the night of Brahma!

Yet,

2) [via other verses not include herein] The souls of the Devas (ie: Shiva) may be liberated personalities re-incarnating [within the Material world] to serve as Mahajans, Devas, etc, pursuant to assisting in the supervision of the material machinery of the universe and/or to engage in the entourage of Vishnu's avataras—when they at long last show up.

NOTE: Both the above items are addressed in the explaination below by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.

—————————————————————

Iso 14 P:

. . . The duration of life varies according to species. Lord Brahmä, the chief living being within this material universe, lives for millions and millions of years, while a minute germ lives for some hours only.

But no one in the material world can survive eternally. Things are born or created under certain conditions, they stay for some time, and, if they continue to live, they grow, procreate, gradually dwindle and finally vanish.

According to these laws, even the Brahmäs, of which there are millions in different universes, are all liable to death either today or tomorrow. Therefore the entire material universe is called Martyaloka, the place of death.

. . . Those living beings who reside on higher planets like the sun and the moon, as well as those on Martyaloka, this earth planet, and also those who live on lower planets—all are merged into the waters of devastation during the night of Brahmä.

During this time no living beings or species remain manifest, although spiritually they continue to exist. This unmanifested stage is called avyakta.

Again, when the entire universe is vanquished at the end of Brahmä’s lifetime, there is another avyakta state. But beyond these two unmanifested states is another unmanifested state, the spiritual atmosphere, or nature.

There are a great number of spiritual planets in this atmosphere, and these planets exist eternally, even when all the planets within this material universe are vanquished at the end of Brahmä’s life.

. . . On the material planets, everyone from Brahmä down to the ant is trying to lord it over material nature, and this is the material disease. As long as this material disease continues, the living entity has to undergo the process of bodily change.

Whether he takes the form of a man, demigod or animal, he ultimately has to endure an unmanifested condition during the two devastations—the devastation during the night of Brahmä and the devastation at the end of Brahmä’s life. . . .

[Amlesh]

The Shiva of Bhagvatam is infact Rudra... a form of Shiva.

According to Hinduism there are 3 Eternal beings who do not change bodies... Vishnu, Anant Shesh Naag and Shiva.

 

That very Shiva is known as Sada Shiva... The Eternal Shiva.

[bija]

 

That very Shiva is known as Sada Shiva... The Eternal Shiva. posted by Amlesh

 

Thank you Amlesh. Here is the scriptural support of your statement, from Gaudiya sastra:

 

 

...The gross body of Brahma, consisting of the total material substance (the aggregate of the universal form of material nature, extending from Patala up to Satyaloka), is also known as Brahma. Hiranyagarbha, Who is manifested within that gross body as subtle living entities, is also known as Brahma. The indwelling soul therein, the second purusha, Garbhodasayi, is Iswar, the Supreme Controller. He Who is the destroyer, by the action of the mode of ignorance is Lord Siva. The indwelling purusha within the Universal Form as well as the subtle form of the Creator, Hiranyagarbha, Who is the super excellent controller born of the lotus flower, have both been referred to as Brahma. This Brahma also accepts the form of Siva for the purpose of destruction. During some kalpas very pious jivas attain this position whereas in others, Lord Vishnu Himself accepts the position of Lord Siva. However, the personality of Sadasiva, is a plenary portion (vilas-vigraha: as distinct from svamsa expansions which are endowed with a smaller degree of potency from the original Godhead) of the self-same form of the Supreme Lord, Shri Krishna, and He is transcendental to the three modes of material nature. It is from Him that the gunavatar of Siva is expanded. Therefore He should be understood to be superior to Brahma, equal to Lord Vishnu, and entirely separate from jivas, who are influenced by the material modes of nature....

 

full Sri Bhagavatamrta Kanika by Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti click here