spreading lord shiva awareness across world

[Amlesh]

Thanks Bija.

[atanu]

 

-

 

the maxim is, "A Fool remains concealed until he opens his mouth" --show me the Sastra!!!

 

 

 

Apt.

[atanu]

 

The Shiva of Bhagvatam is infact Rudra... a form of Shiva.

According to Hinduism there are 3 Eternal beings who do not change bodies... Vishnu, Anant Shesh Naag and Shiva.

 

That very Shiva is known as Sada Shiva... The Eternal Shiva.

 

Namaskar Amlesh,

 

Thank you for your post. I however, wish to further clarify a few points. We do not take Gaudya purports as Shruti, though for Gaudiya Bhaktas those purports may be valid -- as per their requirement and predilections. No problem with that approach since for Christians by name God is different. Difference of naming does not change the Truth. But a few very immature devotees (mostly non-indian neo HK devotees perhaps) read some purports and apply that to Shiva as demi God and what not.

 

If the followers of Sanatana Dharma do not rectify that, it is a great misfortune for us and not for Shiva or sanatana Dharma.

 

Svetasvatara Upanishad

 

4.18. When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Shiva alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient wisdom proceeded thence.

 

Sadashiva is advaitaatma. There is no second being. Rudra, the revealed Pragnya of the Eternal Beneficient Sadashiva is described as below in Shruti and in Bhagavatam:

 

 

Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 3

 

2. For there is one Rudra only, they do not allow a second, who rules all the worlds by his powers. He stands behind all persons, and after having created all worlds he, the protector, rolls it up at the end of time.

3. That one god, having his eyes, his face, his arms, and his feet in every place, when producing heaven and earth, forges them together with his arms and his Wings.

4. He, the creator and supporter of the gods, Rudra, the great seer, the lord of all, he who formerly gave birth to Hiranyagarbha, may he endow us with good thoughts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bhagavatam (in Churning of the Ocean Chapter).

23. O lord, you are self-effulgent and supreme. You create this material world by your personal energy, and

you assume the names Brahma, Visnu and Mahesvara

when you act in creation, maintenance and annihilation.

 

24. You are the cause of all causes, the self-effulgent, inconceivable,

Supreme Brahman

. You manifest various potencies in this cosmic manifestation.

 

31. O Lord Girisa, since your Brahman effulgence is transcendental to the material modes of goodness, passion and ignorance, the various directors of this material world certainly cannot appreciate it or even know where it is.

It is not understandable even to Lord Brahma, Lord Visnu or the King of heaven, Mahendra.

 

 

--------------------------

 

 

Shruti clarifies that there is no difference in EKO (Advaita Atman Shiva) and the All Pervading. But those who see the differences based on their own guna make up (

hierarchial hang-ups

) should read the following:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Satapatha Brahmana,

THE PRAVARGYA.

14:1:1:1

. The gods Agni, Indra, Soma, Makha, Vishnu, and the Visve Devâh, except the two Asvins, performed a sacrificial session.

 

14:1:1:2

. Their place of divine worship was Kurukshetra.. Therefore people say that Kurukshetra is the gods’ place of divine worship: hence wherever in Kurukshetra one settles there one thinks, 'This is a place for divine worship;' for it was the gods’ place of divine worship.

 

14:1:1:3

. They entered upon the session thinking, 'May we attain excellence! may we become glorious! may we become eaters of food!' And in like manner do these (men) now enter upon the sacrificial session thinking, 'May we attain excellence! may we become glorious! may we become eaters of food!'

 

14:1:1:4

. They spake, 'Whoever of us, through austerity, fervour, faith, sacrifice, and oblations, shall first compass the end of the sacrifice, he shall be the most excellent of us, and shall then be in common to us all.' 'So be it,' they said.

 

14:1:1:5

. Vishnu first attained it, and he became the most excellent of the gods; whence people say, 'Vishnu is the most excellent of the gods.'

 

14:1:1:6

. Now he who is this Vishnu is the sacrifice; and he who is this sacrifice is yonder Âditya (the sun). But, indeed,

Vishnu was unable to control that (love of) glory of his;

and so even now not every one can control that (love of) glory of his.

 

14:1:1:7

. Taking his bow, together with three arrows, he stepped forth. He stood, resting his head on the end of the bow. Not daring to attack him, the gods sat themselves down all around him.

 

14:1:1:8

. Then the ants said--these ants (vamrî), doubtless, were that (kind called) 'upadîkâ '--'What would ye give to him who should gnaw the bowstring?'--'We would give him the (constant) enjoyment of food, and he would find water even in the desert: so we would give him every enjoyment of food.'--'So be it,' they said.

 

14:1:1:9

. Having gone nigh unto him,

they gnawed his bowstring. When it was cut, the ends of the bow, springing asunder, cut off Vishnu's head

.

 

14:1:1:10

0. It fell with (the sound) 'ghriṅ'; and on falling it became yonder sun. And the rest (of the body) lay stretched out (with the top part) towards the east. And inasmuch as it fell with (the sound) 'ghriṅ,' therefrom the Gharma (was called); and inasmuch as he was stretched out (pra-vrig,), therefrom the Pravargya (took its name).

 

14:1:1:11

. The gods spake, 'Verily, our great hero (mahân virah) has fallen:' therefrom the Mahâvîra pot (was named). And the vital sap which flowed from him they wiped up (sam-mrig) with their hands, whence the Samrâg.

 

 

---------

 

 

The non-dual God is ever the non-dual God. He can only be known as All Pervading from the perspectives of sensual perceptions of ignorant Jivas. Non-Dual God has never been and never will be non non dual.

 

 

 

Om Namah Shivaya

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Amlesh]

 

Namaskar Amlesh,

 

Thank you for your post. I however, wish to further clarify a few points. We do not take Gaudya purports as Shruti, though for Gaudiya Bhaktas those purports may be valid -- as per their requirement and predilections. No problem with that approach since for Christians by name God is different. Difference of naming does not change the Truth. But a few very immature devotees (mostly non-indian neo HK devotees perhaps) read some purports and apply that to Shiva as demi God and what not.

 

If the followers of Sanatana Dharma do not rectify that, it is a great misfortune for us and not for Shiva or sanatana Dharma.

 

Svetasvatara Upanishad

 

4.18. When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Shiva alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient wisdom proceeded thence.

 

Sadashiva is advaitaatma. There is no second being. Rudra, the revealed Pragnya of the Eternal Beneficient Sadashiva is described as below in Shruti and in Bhagavatam:

 

 

Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 3

 

2. For there is one Rudra only, they do not allow a second, who rules all the worlds by his powers. He stands behind all persons, and after having created all worlds he, the protector, rolls it up at the end of time.

3. That one god, having his eyes, his face, his arms, and his feet in every place, when producing heaven and earth, forges them together with his arms and his Wings.

4. He, the creator and supporter of the gods, Rudra, the great seer, the lord of all, he who formerly gave birth to Hiranyagarbha, may he endow us with good thoughts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bhagavatam (in Churning of the Ocean Chapter).

23. O lord, you are self-effulgent and supreme. You create this material world by your personal energy, and

you assume the names Brahma, Visnu and Mahesvara

when you act in creation, maintenance and annihilation.

 

24. You are the cause of all causes, the self-effulgent, inconceivable,

Supreme Brahman

. You manifest various potencies in this cosmic manifestation.

 

31. O Lord Girisa, since your Brahman effulgence is transcendental to the material modes of goodness, passion and ignorance, the various directors of this material world certainly cannot appreciate it or even know where it is.

It is not understandable even to Lord Brahma, Lord Visnu or the King of heaven, Mahendra.

 

 

--------------------------

 

 

Shruti clarifies that there is no difference in EKO (Advaita Atman Shiva) and the All Pervading. But those who see the differences based on their own guna make up (

hierarchial hang-ups

) should read the following:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Satapatha Brahmana,

THE PRAVARGYA.

14:1:1:1

. The gods Agni, Indra, Soma, Makha, Vishnu, and the Visve Devâh, except the two Asvins, performed a sacrificial session.

 

14:1:1:2

. Their place of divine worship was Kurukshetra.. Therefore people say that Kurukshetra is the gods’ place of divine worship: hence wherever in Kurukshetra one settles there one thinks, 'This is a place for divine worship;' for it was the gods’ place of divine worship.

 

14:1:1:3

. They entered upon the session thinking, 'May we attain excellence! may we become glorious! may we become eaters of food!' And in like manner do these (men) now enter upon the sacrificial session thinking, 'May we attain excellence! may we become glorious! may we become eaters of food!'

 

14:1:1:4

. They spake, 'Whoever of us, through austerity, fervour, faith, sacrifice, and oblations, shall first compass the end of the sacrifice, he shall be the most excellent of us, and shall then be in common to us all.' 'So be it,' they said.

 

14:1:1:5

. Vishnu first attained it, and he became the most excellent of the gods; whence people say, 'Vishnu is the most excellent of the gods.'

 

14:1:1:6

. Now he who is this Vishnu is the sacrifice; and he who is this sacrifice is yonder Âditya (the sun). But, indeed,

Vishnu was unable to control that (love of) glory of his;

and so even now not every one can control that (love of) glory of his.

 

14:1:1:7

. Taking his bow, together with three arrows, he stepped forth. He stood, resting his head on the end of the bow. Not daring to attack him, the gods sat themselves down all around him.

 

14:1:1:8

. Then the ants said--these ants (vamrî), doubtless, were that (kind called) 'upadîkâ '--'What would ye give to him who should gnaw the bowstring?'--'We would give him the (constant) enjoyment of food, and he would find water even in the desert: so we would give him every enjoyment of food.'--'So be it,' they said.

 

14:1:1:9

. Having gone nigh unto him,

they gnawed his bowstring. When it was cut, the ends of the bow, springing asunder, cut off Vishnu's head

.

 

14:1:1:10

0. It fell with (the sound) 'ghriṅ'; and on falling it became yonder sun. And the rest (of the body) lay stretched out (with the top part) towards the east. And inasmuch as it fell with (the sound) 'ghriṅ,' therefrom the Gharma (was called); and inasmuch as he was stretched out (pra-vrig,), therefrom the Pravargya (took its name).

 

14:1:1:11

. The gods spake, 'Verily, our great hero (mahân virah) has fallen:' therefrom the Mahâvîra pot (was named). And the vital sap which flowed from him they wiped up (sam-mrig) with their hands, whence the Samrâg.

 

 

---------

 

 

The non-dual God is ever the non-dual God. He can only be known as All Pervading from the perspectives of sensual perceptions of ignorant Jivas. Non-Dual God has never been and never will be non non dual.

 

 

 

Om Namah Shivaya

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pranaam Atanu,

 

I should first of all thank you for the clarifications. It was up to the point.

In addition to that, I should say, I do understand your purport about non-indians studying the Vedic Shastras.. but it is also true that for those who were born with that culture, it is easier to decipher as it should be. But I'm more happier when I see the endeavor of Westeners. I myself was not born in India, but my origin is from there... I was born and brought up in Mauritius.. in an orthodox family. I should say I'm the rare lucky guys to be born in such a family because most of the people out there have chosen the unorthodox path. In that respect, I see that many of the westeners are the real gems... cause I've seen many Indians as well as People of Indian Origin bereft of that knowlege.

 

Considering all that... whenever we get to hear or read sloka [i mean the purport... it is easier for us to decrypt].

 

In Audarya.... from Theist, Bhaktajan, cbrahma, Bija and many others.. even though not from India... they know much much much than many many so-called [indian] Vedic Scholars.

[atanu]

 

Pranaam Atanu,

 

I should first of all thank you for the clarifications. It was up to the point.

In addition to that, I should say, I do understand your purport about non-indians studying the Vedic Shastras.. but it is also true that for those who were born with that culture, it is easier to decipher as it should be. But I'm more happier when I see the endeavor of Westeners. I myself was not born in India, but my origin is from there... I was born and brought up in Mauritius.. in an orthodox family. I should say I'm the rare lucky guys to be born in such a family because most of the people out there have chosen the unorthodox path. In that respect, I see that many of the westeners are the real gems... cause I've seen many Indians as well as People of Indian Origin bereft of that knowlege.

 

Considering all that... whenever we get to hear or read sloka [i mean the purport... it is easier for us to decrypt].

 

In Audarya.... from Theist, Bhaktajan, cbrahma, Bija and many others.. even though not from India... they know much much much than many many so-called [indian] Vedic Scholars.

 

Namaskar Amlesh,

 

Thank you for your considered reply. You are correct. It is not my intention to generalise therefore I stated: But a few very immature devotees (mostly non-indian neo HK devotees perhaps) read some purports and apply that to Shiva as demi God and what not.

 

Om

[Amlesh]

 

Namaskar Amlesh,

 

Thank you for your considered reply. You are correct. It is not my intention to generalise therefore I stated: But a few very immature devotees (mostly non-indian neo HK devotees perhaps) read some purports and apply that to Shiva as demi God and what not.

 

Om

Pranaam Atanu,

Well, I know that you were not generalising and in that matter I agree with you. I had encountered so many for the past 5 years.

The best I can do is to remain silent... any argument will bring blasphemy to either Lord Shiva or Lord Vishnu or Both, which is the least desirable.

Even though I'm from Vaishnava school of thought, many times I took the side of Non-Vaishnavas... the reason is the same as you've said in your post.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji

Glad to see you are posting here again.

 

 

You are correct. It is not my intention to generalise therefore I stated: But a few very immature devotees (mostly non-indian neo HK devotees perhaps) read some purports and apply that to Shiva as demi God and what not.

 

Om

 

 

 

I like to think not only some purports but the very use of the word Demigod for devas as half or semi, is a recent concoction and has no place in sanatan dharma period.

 

And when you have a translation as below one has to wonder why such deliberate mistranslation.

 

antavat tu phalam tesam

tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam

devan deva-yajo yanti

mad-bhakta yanti mam api

 

"Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet."

(Bhagavad-Gita 7.23)

Now compare most other translation which most near to what Krishna is saying in Bhagvat Gita

 

 

 

Such (material) gains of these less intelligent human beings are temporary. The worshipers of Devas go to Devas, but My devotees come to Me. (7.23)

 

If you want to see the absurdity of the translation as given in so called as it is see what lord Krishna says

 

Nourish the Devas with Yajna, and the Devas will nourish you. Thus nourishing one another you shall attain the Supreme goal. (3.11)

 

Men in the mode of goodness worship the devas; those in the mode of passion worshipthe demons; and those in the mode of ignorance worship ghosts and spirits. (17.4)

 

The worship of Devas, Braahmana, guru, and the wise; purity, honesty, celibacy, and nonviolence; these are said to be the austerity of deed. (17.14)

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by atanu:

We do not take Gaudya purports as Shruti -- VAS!

 

....................................................................................................

 

So Vyasa's work is not as it is?

 

If you cannot see the Supreme Authority of A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami's Scholarly translations as definitive then you are claimimng your self as God-Guru-Sastra --VAS!

 

Propagating 1/2 truths while seeking self-validation is not good enough.

 

Differ with this declaration? [ "*&^%$#@^*"!!! ~ translated: "Deranged hyperbolic demagougic prattler"!!! ].

 

All that is important is for you to know what a Gaudiya Vaishnava preachs --everyone else is for tourist attractions.

 

The Glories of Worship of Lord Shiva as God-Supreme --leads to what?

 

Leads to what?

 

Tell us, Oh Leader, tell us un-learned, befooled, cult-brainwashed, untouchablesThe Glories of Worship of Lord Shiva as God-Supreme.

 

After many many spiritually bereft living being(s) persue the truth behind the mysteries of life, that are reconciled upon finding the ""Absolute Truth"", ---will ultimately come to Lord Shiva? What for? Rasa? Anartha? Kama? Moksha? What Moksha?

 

How do we get moksha, to where, why, and, how do we get past Parvati?

 

Where are the eternal associates of The Glories of Worship of Lord Shiva as God-Supreme? Where are Lord Shiva's eternal associates?

 

YOU DON"T BELIEVE IN LORD SHIVA --YOU ARE A CHARLETAN!

 

YOU DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT The Glories of Worship of Lord Shiva as God-Supreme .

 

YOU ARE PREACHING WITHOUT STATING ANY THING FROM SASTRA!

 

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THE RG VEDAS ET AL ARE INDECIPHERABLE --ESPECIALLY WITHOUT KNOWING:

 

THE HISTORY OF THE PERSONALITIES OF THE FAMILY TREE OF MAHARAJAS [OF THE RAGHU & SOMA DYNASTIES]

 

AND

 

BRAHMA'S LIFE-TIME TIME-LINE --ALL THROUGH THE PURPORTS OF ALL THE UPANISADS, PURANAS ETC.

 

IF YOU DO NOT EXCEPT VYASADEVA'S WRITTINGS AS PART OF THE VEDAS THEN YOU HAVE NO VEDAS AT ALL TO HOIST UP YOUR FLAG POLL.

[atanu]

 

Originally Posted by atanu:

-

IF YOU DO NOT EXCEPT VYASADEVA'S WRITTINGS AS PART OF THE VEDAS THEN YOU HAVE NO VEDAS AT ALL TO HOIST UP YOUR FLAG POLL.

 

Dear Bhaktajan,

 

 

Dear Bhakta there is no flag pole except in your hierarchial mind. God is beyond comparison and let us worship Him as incomparable.

 

Your bhakti is marvelous but so is bhakti of many others. Because you belong to a particular school of thought is no reason to run down other devotees. More mature devotees in this very thread have given their views. We do not ask you to accept those views but we request you to be a bit more mature.

 

You have not read anything other than purports given to you. Those purports may be suitable to you but that does not invaldate other purports and especially the Veda. Please read what has been written above of Shiva Rudra from Bhagavatam. And please also read the following very carefully.

 

Rig Veda

 

Shiv

1.187.01 I glorify Father, the great, the upholder, the strong, by whose invigorating power Trita (Indra) slew the mutilated Vr.tra.

 

1.187.02 Savoury Pita_; sweet pita_; we worship you; become our protector.

 

1.187.03 Come to us, Pita_, Shiv with auspicious aids; a source of delight; not unpalatable; a friend well respected, and having none but agreeable properties.

 

1.187.04 Your flavours, Pita_, are diffused through the regions, as the winds are spread through the sky.

 

1.187.05 Those (men), Pita_, (are the enjoyers of your bounty), who are your distributors, most sweet Pita_, (to others); they who are the relishers of your flavours, are as if they had stiff necks.

 

1.187.06 The thoughts of the mighty gods are fixed, Pita_, upon you; by your kind and intelligent assistance, (Indra) slew Ahi.

 

1.187.07 When, Pita_, this (product) of the water-wealthy clouds, (the rain), arrives; then do you, sweet Pita_, be at hand with sufficiency for our eating.

 

1.187.08 And since we enjoy the abundance of the waters and the plants; therefore, Body, do you grow fat.

 

1.187.09 And since we enjoy, Soma, your mixture with boiled milk or boiled barley; therefore, Body, do you grow fat.

 

1.187.10 Vegetable cake of fried meal, do you be substantial, wholesome, and invigorating; and, Body, do you grow fat.

 

1.187.11 We extract from you, Pita_, by our praises, (the sacrificial food), as cows yield butter for oblation; from you, who are exhilarating to the gods; exhilarating also to us.

 

 

------------------

 

Shiv is the invigorator, the intelligence, the guide, the protector, the upholder, the food by which you grow. And Shiv is the all pervading Vishnu, who is the good Shiv.

 

You may know your father by the name of Rama and I may know the name of your father by the name of Krishna, but that does not change anything of the Universal father, the Seer of the Hiraynagarbha.

 

He is all that is important in you. Rest is inert ash.

 

Shiv Shiv.

[Smiley]

"I am Lord Siva"

Sri Krishna

 

purport:

 

"He is the incarnation of the Supreme Lord"

Swami Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada

 

http://www.asitis.com/10/23.html

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by atanu:

We do not take Gaudya purports as Shruti -- VAS!

 

....................................................................................................

 

So Vyasa's work is not as it is?

 

If you cannot see the Supreme Authority of A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami's Scholarly translations as definitive then you are claimimng your self as God-Guru-Sastra --VAS!

 

Propagating 1/2 truths while seeking self-validation is not good enough.

 

Differ with this declaration? [ "*&^%$#@^*"!!! ~ translated: "Deranged hyperbolic demagougic prattler"!!! ].

 

All that is important is for you to know what a Gaudiya Vaishnava preachs --everyone else is for tourist attractions.

 

The Glories of Worship of Lord Shiva as God-Supreme --leads to what?

 

Leads to what?

 

Tell us, Oh Leader, tell us un-learned, befooled, cult-brainwashed, untouchablesThe Glories of Worship of Lord Shiva as God-Supreme.

 

After many many spiritually bereft living being(s) persue the truth behind the mysteries of life, that are reconciled upon finding the ""Absolute Truth"", ---will ultimately come to Lord Shiva? What for? Rasa? Anartha? Kama? Moksha? What Moksha?

 

How do we get moksha, to where, why, and, how do we get past Parvati?

 

Where are the eternal associates of The Glories of Worship of Lord Shiva as God-Supreme? Where are Lord Shiva's eternal associates?

 

YOU DON"T BELIEVE IN LORD SHIVA --YOU ARE A CHARLETAN!

 

YOU DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT The Glories of Worship of Lord Shiva as God-Supreme .

 

YOU ARE PREACHING WITHOUT STATING ANY THING FROM SASTRA!

 

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THE RG VEDAS ET AL ARE INDECIPHERABLE --ESPECIALLY WITHOUT KNOWING:

 

THE HISTORY OF THE PERSONALITIES OF THE FAMILY TREE OF MAHARAJAS [OF THE RAGHU & SOMA DYNASTIES]

 

AND

 

BRAHMA'S LIFE-TIME TIME-LINE --ALL THROUGH THE PURPORTS OF ALL THE UPANISADS, PURANAS ETC.

 

IF YOU DO NOT EXCEPT VYASADEVA'S WRITTINGS AS PART OF THE VEDAS THEN YOU HAVE NO VEDAS AT ALL TO HOIST UP YOUR FLAG POLL.

[bhaktajan]

Krishna Says:

Of all the Rudras I am Lord Siva; . . .

 

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Svami comments,

"There are eleven Rudras, of whom Sankara, Lord Siva, is predominant. He is the incarnation of the Supreme Lord in charge of the modes of ignorance in the universe. . . ."

 

But, Smilely, these Guys do not except the Puranas as Vedic!

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

What does their own choice of sastra teach us about, WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO TEACH US POOR DOLTS about:

 

the jiv-atma?

the false-ego?

The stopping of reincarnation?

The performance of Dharma?

The performance of samskaras?

the limiting of actions via the ways of Karma?

the destination of successful Yogis?

the spiritual dimensions of people-hood?

the spiritual dimensions of goverment?

the spiritual dimensions of prayascitta (attonement)?

the spiritual dimensions of taking prasadam?

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

It would seem that these posters are bereft of any knowledge [instead of understanding that Lord Shiva is a Vaishnava and that we are Vaishnava, and therefore they should see the path clearly shown by their own God Lord Shiva, to serve bonefide Vaishnavas--and thus, that that is the great realisation that all Shivites and Shaktas must confess exists at the end of their paths & spiritual quests] --instead they post their allegiance to what amounts to a "Pop-Idol" --trying so hard to be cool and original and new and fresh and/or maybe they are simply Muslim-Christian in sheep's clothing.

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

the maxim is, "A Fool remains concealed until he opens his mouth"

 

--show me the Sastra!!!

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

If this hurts your feelings--that is called "Growing pains".

 

But If you are going to quote sastra --get it right already --or else you'll repeat the class over and over until you must leave to pay your rent best you can.

[atanu]

 

Krishna Says:

Of all the Rudras I am Lord Siva; . . .

 

 

Yes, there are eleven Rudras in every being. These eleven Rudras are offsprings of one Aja Rudra.

 

Om

[atanu]

 

"I am Lord Siva"

Sri Krishna

 

 

 

Namaste Smiley,

 

 

 

Maha-Narayana Upanishad

 

XXI-1: May the Supreme who is the ruler of all knowledge, controller of all created beings, the preserver of the Vedas and the one overlord of Hiranyagarbha, be benign to me. I am the Sadasiva described thus and denoted by Pranava.

 

Yes. Every knower of Brahman knows that the "I" is Shiva alone, as the Sage who composed the Maha Narayana Upanishad teaches. Ignorant think "I" as something different from Sadashiva.

 

Yes. I am the Sadasiva described thus and denoted by Pranava.

 

 

Om Namah Shivaya

 

 

 

[srikanthdk71]

 

Namaste Smiley,

Yes. Every knower of Brahman knows that the "I" is Shiva alone, as the Sage who composed the Maha Narayana Upanishad teaches. Ignorant think "I" as something different from Sadashiva.

Yes. I am the Sadasiva described thus and denoted by Pranava.

Om Namah Shivaya

 

Dear Atanu, they are Materialistic people who see god as something material and hence the difference says that 'You' are different from 'Him'. You can never make them realize the Ultimate Truth that you are trying to tell. Eventhough you quote from any Upanishad, Brahma Sutra, they dont raise above their pancharatras/Vaishnava Upanishad quotes and over all the Biblographer of KC ie., SP who didnt know anything about Advaita. When you cant refute, you attack is their policy.

[chandu_69]

Bhagavadgita 10:23 Of all the Rudras I am Lord Siva; of the Yaksas and Raksasas I am the Lord of wealth [Kuvera]; of the Vasus I am fire [Agni], and of mountains I am Meru.

So people, stop crying that prabhupada was implying lord siva is demigod.

Krishna himself said he is SIVA.(As per prabhupada translation).

Thanks smiley for bringing that up.

[bhaktajan]

Shiva has said so much in the Gita --except that Shiva is not speaking in My Gita?

 

atanu's & chandu_69's statement:

"Krishna himself said he is SIVA"

is a mis-qoute-out-of-context mis-rendering of the Krishna's statement.

 

[this is a perfect example of how convoluted Kali-yuga makes straight logic almost un-attainable]

 

Of all opulent creations in the cosmos-- a Vaishnava may behold Krishna's presence in myraids of apex-par-excellance 'Stuff'.

 

Krishna certainly has ambassadors to minister to different material affairs-- so Shiva is made of Krishna's energy.

 

The facts of life are thus:

 

The father has said himself, I am 'my son' [Rudra].

 

not,

 

The son says, I am 'my father'.

 

but,

 

The father's opulence is beheld in the son's person [dharma--duties].

 

Do you not perform "Yoga"?

What would be the conclusion of a Shivite's "Yoga"?

It does not relate to the path of Vaishnava's meditations --but, where does the soul purportedly go?

 

A Shivite praises Shiva as God --but considers Godhead as bereft of personality.

 

It is my observation that loud preaching Shivites are actually voidists --thus mayavadi with a rock-and-roll Matinee Celebrity fixation.

 

The conclusions of vedic-yogic-puranic-jivatma sciences equate to:

"Persona Suprema de dio" --the Supreme Personality of Godhead --as recieved through one of the four sampradaya successions that start with Brahma.

 

That is all.

Bhaktajan

 

PS: It would be good for your spiritual growth to answer my earlier post list of questions; the questions that are pre-requesite for "Raja-yoga" studies.

.....................................................

Time for Change, right?

[chandu_69]

 

The father has said himself, I am 'my son' [Rudra]..[/unquote]

 

The father wont be angry if a humanbeing worships his son as his own manifestation.

 

Got it??????

[bhaktajan]

The father wont be angry if a humanbeing worships his son as his own manifestation.

 

Got it??????

................................................................

Yes, I get it, and, I accept your position.

 

To spread Lord SHiva's fame is to orient the world as to who God the Father is: Krishna.

 

Actually the world knows Shiva.

 

The Wiccans and Imams still need to be educated --you may have that turf all to yourself.

 

Krishna is for world leaders and their mentors.

 

Raja-yoga is for rajas and their dependents.

[ranjeetmore]

Lord Shiva is in fact a guna avatara of the supreme lord Govinda.

Sri Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakura has confirmed that Lord Shiva is NOT a jeeva tattva and that he possesses the three saktis viz. Jeeva,maya and SWARUPA shakti.

Further,It is confirmed when Sri Narada crosses the entire material manifestation of maha tattva and visits Shiva loka which is beyond maya.There Narada finds Lord Mahesvara worshipping the Supreme Expansion of the Supreme lord Govinda,Lord Shankarsana.

Lord Shiva becomes very restless and sad when Narada proclaims that"You are Lord Govinda Himself."

Lord Shiva covers his ears immediately and begs Narada not to say such things again.Further,Narada extols lord Shiva being the greatest devotee of the Supreme lord Shyamasundara,for uma-mahesvara had the power to grant liberation.

Lord shiva dismisses such praises humbly and proclaims,"The Supreme lord Krsna has granted me and my wife,the power to grant liberation.This is his special mercy towards me."

Further Shiva sends Narada to Prahlada Maharaja when Narada comes to know from lord Shiva himself that he is not the greatest devotee of Govinda.

He says,"Please,if you want to meet the greatest devotee,kindly proceed back to the MAterial manifestation where a king called Prahlad lives.When the Supreme lord incarnated as Lord Nrsimhadeva,He just growled at us.I,Brahma,Laxmi were standing at a distance,shivering in fear.Whereas,the Lord took Prahlada upon His lap and played with him just like a lioness plays with her cub.He licked his body in affection.Thus you must go to Prahlad maharaja"

[ranjeetmore]

Lord Shiva also mentions in this particular dialogue,when Srila Narada mentions how Lord Krsna had obtained the Sudarshana Cakra from Shiva.

Lord Shiva becomes very sad and quickly gives the explanation.

"The lord plays these pastimes all the time.Even before this,He acted that He was worshipping me.He always does this acting..sometimes to tease me and sometimes as a special mercy. "

Anyway,the sudarshana cakra is the eternal companion of the Supreme Lord.

Lord Narayana had used it from the beginning of creation,billions of years before and since then till the advent of Sri Krsna.There is no reason for a sane man to even believe that the Sudarshana was obtained From Lord Shiva originally.

 

And really,Lord Shiva is a guna avatara and so he is really not different from Lord Govinda Himself,except for the fact that Lord Govinda is original Godhead Himself,whereas when the same personality of Godhead VOLUNTARILY accepts to asscoiate with tamo guna of Maya,He is called as Shankara.

Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakura has warned that one who does not know the real postion of Shambhu and Govinda,should never meddle with these matters,for both parties can end up commiting offenses.

[bakth]

well here we are presenting all the possible reasons for the attrocities commited to hindus across the world , we have many reasons to fight..

 

i hope you guys know about RAMESHWARAM(shiv ji) which according to ram ji is RAM KE ISHWAR HAI JO.

and which according to shiv ji is ram hai ishwar jiske.

 

vishnu ji and shiv ji are both there to spread love among us and to make us realise that duties (karma) comes above everything.

[ranjeetmore]

I'm sorry,but karma DOESN"T come above EVERYTHING...Not Bhakti atleast.

Gauranga Mahaprabhu has cleared it Himself,

"Shastra Ved kahe sambandha(relationship),Abhideya(Sadhana or process) and Prayojana,Krsna,Krisna bhakti,prem,ye teen Mahadhon(the greatest treasure.)."

The sastras and Vedas only speak of three things: The relationship of the jeevatma with Sri Krsna(Paramatma);The process of Bhakti that leads us to the lord and Lastly,Prema bhakti...which is the supreme attainable spiritual condition.These three are the greatest of all treasures.

In Bhagvad Gita,The supreme Lord declares to Arjuna,"Think of Me alone.Forget everything else."

Remembering the Supreme lord alone is the most auspicious and fruitful activity.It is above all the so called 'sadhanas' and the precious 'dharma' that so many pple were led to believe by a old person clad in khadi.

Tulsidas had warned in his Ramayana: All this karma,jnana,yog,etc are all USELESS unless you surrender to my Master,Sri Ramacandra.

 

Gauranga Mahaprabhu has declared: Bhakti mahadevi is the merciful mother of Karma and Jnyana.They are completely dependent upon Her mercy and hence they have their faces turned towards Her,eager to obtain some grace.

A jnyani and Karmi can do crores of sadhanas and sacrifices,BUT all of this will be useless if he doesn't have some trace of affection for the Supreme Lord Hari.

Look at Ravana...He was a bhramana..chaturvedi...He wrote commentary on the veda...He performed so many sacrifices..He was a great Shiva devotee..But he had only contempt for the Supreme Lord..So he was snuffed...

consider this simple logic:

Who provides the fruit of Jnyana and Karma ?

The all pervading Bhram? Hardly.

Bhramn is inert and without kriya shakti.It Never was,never is and Never will be active.

The paramatma in the heart provides the fruits of all karma and Jnyana.Who is this paramatma.

Veda vyasa declares: There are three features of the Supreme Truth.Bhramn,Paramatma Bhagvan.Sri krsna is Himself all these features of Godhead maintaining their required identities,cognizance,opulence etc.

So this Parmatma is Sri krsna..You read in the sastras..

Tvameva mata,ca pita tvameve...tvameva sarvam,dravinam tvameva.

karo me yadnyat saklam parasmayi,

Narayana yati samarapa yami.

 

Lord Narayana is the Sole relative of the Jeevatma.He is the closest friend,Mother,Father,brother...evrything.He is all the devas.

These prayers indicate this parmatma feature of the Lord.

This paramatma decides your karma phala..Who else has the power? Who else can sit WITHIN the jeevatma ?

Yah aatma ni tishthati !

The parmatma sits within the jeevatma.

[ranjeetmore]

Lord Shiva says to parvati

"When someone says R-A ,I get very excited.My body convulses in eagerness and i await in all ecstasy that that person might further say M-A,eventhough the person is going to say V-A-N-A."

We come to know through the ramayana that Lord shiva leaves his wife,Sati,for she critisizes him for worshipping Lord Rama,Who according to her,is a mere human...thus indicating that a sane man should immediately give up the association of the person who is envious of the Supreme Lord,even though the person is one's wife.

Later however Lord shiva realises that to obtain the lord,he must please Uma herseldf,she being non-different from the 9 kinds of bhakti...but thats besides the point.

Lord Hanuman is an avatara of Lord Shankara himself....So go figure... who serves Whom for eternity.

[srikanthdk71]

 

I'm sorry,but karma DOESN"T come above EVERYTHING...Not Bhakti atleast.

 

Karma certainly is not above everything. But remember that it is the base of everything. Once you lay this Karma as your base, you cannot go back but bear its fruit in your generations to come.

 

 

The sastras and Vedas only speak of three things: The relationship of the jeevatma with Sri Krsna(Paramatma);

 

Yes. But do you know why? Coz Common Sense says Jeevatma and Paramatma are different.It is a Adhi-Bhautik truth. Its to prove that they are one and the same and realise the Adhyatmik Truth.

 

 

The process of Bhakti that leads us to the lord and Lastly,Prema bhakti...which is the supreme attainable spiritual condition.

 

Any form of Bhakti certainly takes to near the lord but you cannot experience him unless and until you have your Gnana-chakshu (eye of knowledge) open. That is the sole reason why Gyana Yoga comes just before the Vishvarupa Darshan.

 

In Bhagvad Gita,The supreme Lord declares to Arjuna,"Think of Me alone.Forget everything else."

 

Is that 'Me' not in Arjuna, Is that 'Me' not in You and Me? Me is always alone. Thinking only of it without any attributes leads to the truth. But if you again take it in the Adi-Bhautik truth which most of us like to do, then all the greatness go to one person 'Krishna' and he is eliviated to the Goddom and we understand ourself to be lesser beings. Yes. Krishna was far far ahead of a common person. His was a saintly character and his truth was sharp as a sword. He showed how to perfectly balance life with all spiritual attributes even after one has got married and has children ie., a grihasta. A perfect Grihasta indeed.

 

 

Remembering the Supreme lord alone is the most auspicious and fruitful activity.

 

How can you forget? He is always within you.

 

 

Tulsidas had warned in his Ramayana: All this karma,jnana,yog,etc are all USELESS unless you surrender to my Master,Sri Ramacandra.

 

Refer Valmiki Ramayan also which is the most authentic. In Tulsidas Ramayan, Rama is portrayed as a Hero from birth. Read Vamiki Ramayan. It is more realistic and not dramatic.

 

 

Bhramn is inert and without kriya shakti.It Never was,never is and Never will be active.

 

The most foolish quote I have read till date. What do you think Brahman means? The whole universe/cosmos. What you and I know and dont know. Now, tell me where is inertia in the cosmos? To understand Brahman, you will have to understand the Atman. Both are one and the same. The only definition of Atma you get in scriptures is,

Shivam Shantam Advaitam Chaturthamanyante Sa Atma Sabigyeyah

 

As your Atman is very silent but does all regulations of your body, in the same way the Brahman consciousness is regulating all the activities of the cosmos outside this body. It is Ajayamano Bahudaa Vijayate.

 

 

The paramatma in the heart provides the fruits of all karma and Jnyana.

 

There is nothing to provide. You have done something to get something. You got it.

 

 

Veda vyasa declares: There are three features of the Supreme Truth.Bhramn,Paramatma Bhagvan.Sri krsna is Himself all these features of Godhead maintaining their required identities,cognizance,opulence etc.

So this Parmatma is Sri krsna..You read in the sastras..

 

Wow, Vedavyasa should have made you sit beside him and told you in your ears. Which Shastra written by Veda Vyasa tell you all these? True that Krishna maintained all the required attributes and became a Paramatma. When are you going to do that instead of wrongly equating things which you dont know at all.

 

 

Tvameva mata,ca pita tvameve...tvameva sarvam,dravinam tvameva.

karo me yadnyat saklam parasmayi,

Narayana yati samarapa yami.

 

Lord Narayana is the Sole relative of the Jeevatma.He is the closest friend,Mother,Father,brother...evrything.He is all the devas.

These prayers indicate this parmatma feature of the Lord.

 

If you dont know, dont quote. Moreover you give wrong interpretations also to confuse others.

 

1. Tvameva Mata cha pita tvameva, tvameva bandhu sakha tvameva, tvameva vidya Dravinam tvameva, tvameva sarvam mama deva deva

 

The above has no mention of any idiolised god. It is just a form of prayer to the almighty.

 

2. Kayena vaacha Manasendriyaiva Buddhyatmanava Prakrite svabhavaat,

Karomi Yadyat sakalam parasmai Narayanayeti Samarpayami.

 

By all actions of the Body, Speech, Mind, Sense Organs, Intelligence etc... what ever I do, I surrender it to Narayana.

 

Again, our dear friend will tell Narayana=Krishna=Godhead etc etc. Nara means human. Naraya-Na means not human. That is Narayana. Not a form again.

 

 

This paramatma decides your karma phala..Who else has the power? Who else can sit WITHIN the jeevatma ?

Yah aatma ni tishthati !

The parmatma sits within the jeevatma.

 

Nobody needs to decide your Karma Phala. Are you reducing the power of God to a watch-dog or a judge to monitor/judge and punish or bestow? Go get your basics right. I will not comment on the last Paramatma and jeevatma concepts coz when you dont have your basics right, you will never ever understand anything about the Jiva and the Parama.

[ARJ]

 

Nobody needs to decide your Karma Phala. Are you reducing the power of God to a watch-dog or a judge to monitor/judge and punish or bestow?

 

Srikanthji would you please explain who's the judge ? This question has always bothered me. It is hard to believe that someone's maintaining ledgers.