The Hindu-ization (watering down) of ISKCON

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

The Hindu-ization of ISKCON

 

 

When we refer to ISKCON, naturally we're referring to Srila Prabhupada's mission, and not to what is today the modern manifestation of ISKCON. Basically, we're looking for Srila Prabhupada's opinion or his view on "Hindu". As Srila Prabhupada clarifies in Science of Self-Realization, "Hindu" is just a name that was coined by the Muslims, early on in their reign of India, which lasted over 800 years. They could not pronounce Sindhu properly, so they called it the river 'Hindu', and the inhabitants there became known as the 'Hindus'.

Srila Prabhupada has explained that the true definition of a Hindu is one who is a member or descendant from the original Bharatvarsha, and who follows the Vedic scriptures. India today is composed of Muslims, Jains, Sikhs, and various other minority groups, but those who follow the Vedas in some way or another form the majority of Hindus.

What we're witnessing today in Pakistan, which is seldom mentioned, is the fact that the ex-Hindus who are now Muslims for the most part, and who are of Indian origin, are not the real radicals. The radicals are the Muslims from what they call the "tribal areas" close to the border of Pakistan.

Srila Prabhupada ventured to the West not only per the mandate of his Spiritual Master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, but also because it was his destiny as a nitya-siddha to spread Krsna consciousness outside of India, and primarily in the West. Srila Prabhupada referred to the Indians who left India on account of wanting to improve their economic conditions, as "crows".

 

Many came to study in western universities, and due to their superior culture and intelligence, they are very successful in this venture. Consequently here in the West, there are millions of Indians/Hindus who are very wealthy. I have read that they're the wealthiest sector of immigrants in America. So naturally, in the early days of ISKCON, we did enjoy the assistance of many Indians. Not only did they contribute financially, they also considerably endeavored to help Srila Prabhupada's movement. They were very amazed and proud of Srila Prabhupada's efforts and results.

Srila Prabhupada reminded us many times, and it's the sastric truth, that Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu ordered all Indians to adopt this Krsna consciousness philosophy and spread it throughout the world. Srila Prabhupada said that the reason the world was in such a hellish condition was in part due to the fact that the Indians did not take up this mission, because ultimately, everyone is suffering from lack of knowledge. And of course it's not simply knowledge, but the process of chanting and participating in the Sankirtana movement.

 

At the same time, as Srila Prabhupada clearly explained on his morning walk on September 15, 1975 in Vrindavan, everyone needs to take to this Krsna consciousness, Indians and westerners alike:

Prabhupada: Everyone is in insanity. They are trying to different way. They do not know the only solution is, as Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam sarana... [bg. 18.66]. That they do not, neither they'll accept.

Vasughosa: Especially Indian people, you know, they say, "Well, if I surrender to Krsna, who will feed me?"

Prabhupada: No, no, Indian, American, everyone. Why you are, American, you are so proud of your...?

Vasughosa: No. (laughter) No, but because in India people know that they should surrender to Krsna, no?

Prabhupada: But you also know.

Vasughosa: But the general mass, I mean, of Americans, they don't understand.

Prabhupada: These are faulty, fault-finding. It is no good. Everyone. Krsna did not say for Indian or American. For everyone. But at the present moment Indians are misled that they have been, I mean to say, induced to think that if they become like American or Western people they will be happy. That is misleading.

 

Srila Prabhupada's initial success in preaching to the westerners has now transitioned into a phenomenon of Indians, both in India and in the West, being the primary converts and participants of the institution going by the name of ISKCON. In the early days when I first got involved, I found it quite amazing how the Indians who came to the temple so easily understood and enthusiastically participated, but at the same time, they did not wish to encourage their offspring to fully participate in the way that

 

Srila Prabhupada wanted the westerners to do. That primarily meant they wanted them to get a western education and be successful in western culture. In other words, to make money. I think for the most part, we can safely say that's still the case. There are exceptions, of course.

On the other hand, of the westerners who first joined, many have abandoned the original spirit and have either gone back to university or regretted that they'd given up their education as they tried to survive and make a living in the western culture. ISKCON itself, in part due to the influence of the Indians, has structured the temple communities in the west in a similar format or model as Indian temples, where you have a few pujaris and so-called brahmans in the temple, and everyone else is a congregational member.

When I first moved back to Vancouver, I approached Hari Vilasa dasa, then the GBC here, indicating that I'd like to get fully involved. I even came up with a whole plan on how I could do that. He responded by saying, "don't you know that everyone is part-time now? That included Hari Vilasa himself, who was part-time GBC while running a business on the side.

 

The current temple leader, who I believe still holds the Temple Vice President title, also runs a successful business, and for the most part, the only full-time members are either paid a salary or stipend, or are allowed to occupy little cubbyholes in the temple outbuildings.

 

The leaders set it up this way, but a look around at the state of disrepair on the temple property makes it clear that the system is not working. The management structure at Vancouver appears to be due to the influence of those from India. Granted, they are the ones contributing most of the money for the upkeep of the temple. On account of their business endeavours they are able to make these contributions.

Unfortunately, they seem to not understand Srila Prabhupada's idea, which was that if you want to simply execute Krsna consciousness and live a simple life, then you can live at the temple. That was his invitation, and everyone was welcome who was willing to do that.

 

Of course, today that's not the case. The temple is there for the benefit and support of the congregational members who by and large, come once or twice a week. There's little of the old spirit of going out on daily sankirtana, harinam or book distribution, and the preaching has dwindled greatly. Consequently, the recruiting of westerners has diminished.

Now I'm not trying to blame the Indians, because they have a culture, just as in the west we have our culture. Their culture effects how they see the world and live their life. And there are downsides, to say the least, in the western culture, even as it impacts the individuals who join and participate from the west.

 

Their cultural impact has some serious downsides, as well. But it appears that Srila Prabhupada was taking advantage of and enjoying the results in terms of his efforts to spread Krsna consciousness to what he referred to as the materially exhausted youth of the west. They were willing, at least during his lila period, to forgo all their future to assist with his transcendental mission. Most of us didn't really understand what we were doing, but from Srila Prabhupada's point of view, and I suppose from the point of view of most Indians, that's exactly what we were doing… giving up our mundane futures.

It's very difficult later in life, when youthful energy is dispersed, to get a start materially, to pursue family and business, and so on. The heartbreak experienced by westerners such as myself is due to the fact that we weren't pure, but we were idealistic, so we assumed that Srila Prabhupada's vision or dream would continue to expand and develop in the way that it appeared to us, and in the way that Srila Prabhupada was actually describing.

 

In other words, big devotee communities where we could continue on in the same lifestyle we enjoyed while Srila Prabhupada was here. Of course, we also had the expectation that it would improve in many respects. After all, there is a Vedic model that Srila Prabhupada was presenting based on varnasrama, and the early communities appeared to be very successful, especially places like New Vrindaban and urban centers like Los Angeles and New York

 

In fact, most temples were not simply temples at all, but were truly devotee communities. Today, we know that Srila Prabhupada's dream has evaporated without anyone having any grounds to protest. I know that the leaders think this is a good thing. They've led us to believe that this is what Srila Prabhupada wanted, and that it was inevitable, or other such excuses. You never really hear them admit the truth in this regard, and it is a dilemma that's not easily resolved when you no longer have a maha-bhagavat Acarya in his manifested lila to sort the problems out for you.

How things will continue to evolve in ISKCON is hard to imagine. The leaders are clearly not following Srila Prabhupada's model, nor do they aspire to have ISKCON go in that direction at all. And because most of the leaders are gurus themselves, they look up to the big successful gurus, who are essentially Zonal Acaryas, and secretly if not outwardly aspire to find themselves in just such a scenario.

The evolution of ISKCON here in Canada, and elsewhere in the U.S. is that many of the smaller temples are turning into family temples, along the lines of the Indian model. This is true even at some of the big, original temples like Los Angeles. Vancouver seems to be headed that way, and Calgary, Edmonton and Regina, are all essentially family temples now. This phenomenon is but one aspect of the Hindu-ization of ISKCON, and it clearly is not in keeping with Srila Prabhupada's plan.

 

By Rocan dasa (Sampradaya Sun Editor)

 

Note, it seems anyone who questions ISKCON is called a fault finder. Well, thank God we have devotees like Rocana dasa who keeps ISKCON in check. The fact that Dandavats printed Kurma dasa ACBSP article is the proof they all read Sampradaya Sun and without a doubt, the present imature watered down version of ISKCON DO TAKE NOTICE and find it hard to pull the wool over the eyes of sincere devotees.

[theist]

 

Note, it seems anyone who questions ISKCON is called a fault finder. Well, thank God we have devotees like Rocana dasa who keeps ISKCON in check.

Yes and his good wife Jahnava devi dasi.

[Sarva gattah]

The present imature watered down version of ISKCON in Autralia, have no idea what they are doing, nor have they the guts to take responsiblity and own up to their past injustices and mismanagement, that cleverly denies devotee from knowing the truth.

 

Instead, they now palm it all off to the Indian congregational members to sought out. Its all just another cover-up to avoid responsibility

 

What a joke

[theist]

 

The present imature watered down version of ISKCON in Autralia, have no idea what they are doing, nor have they the guts to take responsiblity and own up to their past injustices and mismanagement, that cleverly denies devotee from knowing the truth.

 

Instead, they now palm it all off to the Indian congregational members to sought out. Its all just another cover-up to avoid responsibility

 

What a joke

 

Yes to the extent that this hinduization of ISKCON has gone on it is not the Hindu's fault. It is the fault of the soi-called disciples of Srila Prabhupada who water down the divine nectar of his teachings in order to keep their temple business enterprise running fat.

 

Sad joke indeed.

[realist]

 

Yes to the extent that this hinduization of ISKCON has gone on it is not the Hindu's fault. It is the fault of the soi-called disciples of Srila Prabhupada who water down the divine nectar of his teachings in order to keep their temple business enterprise running fat.

 

Sad joke indeed.

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>The present version of ISKCON in Autralia have no idea what they are doing, nor have they the guts to take responsiblity and own up to their past injustices and mismanagement, that cleverly denies devotee from knowing the real truth about their past leadership blunders that they new all along, and not only did nothing to help one particular devotee, but also denied him the medical help he was ordered to have.

 

Instead, today they now palm it all off to the Indian congregational members to sought out. Its all just another cover-up to avoid admitting to THEIR past irresponsibility and ignorance

 

What a joke

 

They don't care about a devotee they have wronged by not allowing him the care he needed, they only interested in protecting themselves

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

Actually, ISKCON principles and standards today is way worse than what many think.

 

Don't be disillusioned by the vast numbers of Indian Hindu's. That's only happening due to the new found weath of India and the fact the Indian population is on the move all over the world. Its like money on the stock exchange, it's not real and only gives a false sense of security. THE REAL WAY TO JUDGE IS BY HOW MANY WESTERN DEVOTEES ARE CONVERTED.

 

Prabhupada always said quality is better than quantity. And today the quality is materialistically feeble and weak

 

It is being infliuenced not only by layback (yet sincere) Indian congregation, but also many bitter congregational devotees who live around the Temple still burnt by the guru fiasco and still looking for someone to blame with their crazy 'witch hunts'.

 

 

Even Srila Narayana Maharaj says there no place worse, with the influence of Kali-yuga ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET, than Murwillumbah NSW Australia. The place is full of envious fault finding 'witch hunting' snakes in the garb of devotee from both the ISKCON and Gaudiya math camps in the Murwillumbah pit hole!!

 

On the ISKCON side is very nasty heartless so called devotees like Subabhati dasa (someone should tell him Lord Caitanya has come to save EVERYONE!!!, no matter how fallen and not just his ISKCON buddies.

 

And on the Gaudya matha side there are so many fools and envious rascals who follow both Srila Govinda Maharaj and Srila Narayana Maharaj who have no idea what the word 'merciful and compassionate' means.

[realist]

 

Krishna Consciousness Works Outside

of the Square

 

BY: KURMA DASA <CENTER>

</CENTER>

 

 

 

Oct 03, AUSTRALIA (SUN) —

Since 1980, I have struck up a lot of devotional friendships with people who were either kicked out of ISKCON or oppressed in some way or another by those within the Gopi Bhava Club, the thugs who have controlled Srila Prabhupada's Society in this part of the world.

 

 

 

It is really quite amazing when you get out there amongst it, to find how many people have come to ISKCON convinced by the power of Srila Prabhupada, but due to some power crazed individual they encountered, they have left the Society. Only recently I met one devotee working at a rubbish tip.

 

 

Prior to this he was a pujari for many years at one ISKCON temple here in Australia, and I had actually met and spoken with him many years before, when he was doing his service as a pujari. I remember being very impressed by his nice nature.

 

 

 

I do not believe for one minute that Srila Prabhupada would be pleased with devotees being kicked out of His Society or oppressed by thugs. So many nice people kicked out, regardless of what stage of devotion, it is a real tragedy. Who knows what sort of ISKCON we would have if these great souls who were touched by Srila Prabhupada had stayed.

 

 

 

I can remember being bullied myself by some of ISKCON's thugs in the early days here in Australia, however I stayed determined and grasped onto Srila Prabhupada's lotus-like instructions, and it worked.

 

 

 

A few devotees and myself went out preaching and distributing Srila Prabhupada's books in country towns all over Australia. We also distributed prasadam. We purchased an old cart that was used to deliver milk in the olden days, and we decorated the cart with flowers and signs of the Hare Krishna Mantra.

 

 

 

We attended various festivals and became a popular attraction, and were invited to attend other festivals in different towns. It was really amazing. Our cart wasn't big, it was just really simple, but the attention it created was awesome. What we did was really small, however the bliss surrounding this small offering was incredible, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Srila Prabhupada was there with us when we chanted at these festivals. Every time we pulled up at the end of a parade, we had scores of curious people who took one of Srila Prabhupada's books, or ate some prasadam.

 

 

 

I guess that the moral to this story is that Krishna Consciousness works outside of the square. We do not have to be living in the temples, nor do we have to be part of the various groups that have accumulated within ISKCON. We simply have to follow Srila Prabhupada anywhere in the world with a sincerity of purpose. If we do this, how could we not be under Srila Prabhupada's divine care?

 

 

 

I have included a couple of shots of a daffodil festival that we attended in 1988. That's me, Kurma (not the chef), sitting on the cart playing the harmonium!

 

 

 

Kurma Dasa (the famous writer)

 

 

<CENTER>

</CENTER>

 

[theist]

 

I guess that the moral to this story is that Krishna Consciousness works outside of the square. We do not have to be living in the temples, nor do we have to be part of the various groups that have accumulated within ISKCON. We simply have to follow Srila Prabhupada anywhere in the world with a sincerity of purpose. If we do this, how could we not be under Srila Prabhupada's divine care?

 

 

Indeed. This is a mature realization.

[AncientMariner]

I have noticed the Vedic scholars that capture the essence of the Vedas in the Kali-yuga are basically forced out of the modern Vedic institutions and are forced to operate as lone wolfs essentially. This basically happened to Prabhupada himself and he set that example of what can be achieved by a lone wolf.