Mayavadis see EVERYTHING as illusion, I am u, you are me and we are together as ONE.

[Sarva gattah]

The Mayavadis see EVERYTHING as illusion, I am u, you are me and we are all together as ONE consciosness.

 

In this way claim to be God

Devotees of Krishna on the other hand, see every living being as as individual identity, every soul or jiva as an eternal individual and Krishna as the Supreme Individual.

 

Everything in NOT an illusion, but rather, a REAL creation of the Lord where Vaikuntha is the permanent aspect of Krishna's personal reality, while the inferior Mahat-tattva (material creation) is also REAL, yet impermanent and forever changing, fading and a decaying as a temporary reality of Krishna's wonderful creation.

Both are real however, Vaikuntha is imperishable while the mahat-tattva is perishable.

In other words the material creation is also very REAL but is temporary

In the Spiritual Sky, there is a cloud that is very real but is always in a state of decay. This is where we consciously transfer our ‘awareness’ in the solid conscious state that is our baddha jiva condition. In other words, the marginal living entity can go, if he chooses, to the material creation (mahat tattva) and not serve Krishna, not as their svarupa body, but rather as a projected dreaming consciousness.

However, because of the 'eternal presents' of Vaikuntha, we can never leave to enjoy separately as our nitya-siddha perpetual bodily self, whom is who we really are within that 'eternal present' of Goloka.

We therefore enter the mahat-tattva cloud in a secondary conscious state that is very real but is normalised or reunited when one is again aware of their svarupa body (nitya-baddha). In this way, leaving Goloka is compared to dreaming, but this baddha jiva self centred dream, unlike the dream state of ones biological body, is very real but expressed in an atmosphere of eternal decay (the maha-tattva)

[Bishadi]

"I am u, you are me and we are together as ONE. "

 

 

 

there is a term often noticed about good sustenance such as the words above

 

called

 

 

 

 

Nectar

[Bishadi]

 

The Mayavadis see EVERYTHING as illusion, I am u, you are me and we are all together as ONE consciosness.

 

In this way claim to be God

As reality shares nothing is isolated but in the material. Consciousness shares unity with the collective conscious. (how we know love)

 

 

the life of all that is (true understanding in science, math and religion is that 'light' is the life of all mass and light shared between mass is entangled, thereby all that exists is entangled to the total/God)

 

It is how consciousness exists within the body of physical forms; the light!

 

 

 

 

on the other hand, see every living being as as individual identity, every soul or jiva as an eternal individual and Krishna as the Supreme Individual.

which allows an isolation from existence (mother earth/nature) to become the illusion of self

 

 

Everything in NOT an illusion, but rather, a REAL creation of

the material, is what life's experience observes but the life within (the light) is what is conscious, and combined with all that is

 

 

In other words the material creation is also very REAL but is temporary

In the Spiritual Sky,

such that the light, the energy of mass is eternally in process as the material locations upon the bodies of mass (living things) is but short in the period of experienced time.

 

The material bodies may only be slight in time, but the energy of the conscious and what can be imposed to the material by choice is alive and continues

 

so as home to the light of consciousness during our period of choice, what we do during this period is what represents the individuals we call ourselves

 

to be known as good in the material we contribute while with choice as the eternal spirit lives within all that is imposed; such that time shares the good live forever while the adverse eventually become extinct. (or in current logic; equillibriate to base constituents)

[kaisersose]

 

The Mayavadis see EVERYTHING as illusion, I am u, you are me and we are all together as ONE consciosness.

In this way claim to be God.

<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = Z NS = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><Z:p></Z:p>Devotees of Krishna on the other hand....

...here we go with this nonsense again. Unbelievable!

1) As Ravindran Keshavan pointed out on another thread, have you in your lifetime converted a single Mayavadi into a Hare Krishna?

2) Your concept of a Mayavadi is as wrong as can be. If you accosted a Mayavadi in an airport or on a street-corner with this kind of nonsense, he will laugh at your ignorance.

3) And several Mayavadis are staunch devotees of Krishna. How does this work?

 

Instead of repeating your grossly incorrect statements on Advaita/Mayavada, I think you people will be better served trying to check the Hare Krishna population from dwindling. In case it is has not yet sunk in, take a look around. It is no longer fashionable to become a Hare Krishna or for existing HKs to continue their affiliation. Why don’t you – as a Prabhupada loyalist – focus your energy on checking this drain?

 

You can start by avoiding topics you know nothing about – mainly Mayavada. That will be a good start. You come across as someone extremely foolish, when you talk about things you do not know.

 

And while you are at it, try to use the organ named the Brain instead of rote repetition of Prabhupada’s sales pitches against the Ramakishna Ashram which may have made sense in 1968, but is completely out of context in 2008.

 

I don’t know if you can get all this, but I feel compelled to enlighten you anyway.

 

Cheers

[Sarva gattah]

 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

Your concept of a Mayavadi is as wrong as can be.

 

No its not, you are so naive. Obviously you have no realizations of how Mayavadis see everything as one and themselves therefore as God. wakey wakey

 

I personally heard Prabhupada say that RamaKrishna and his disciple Vivikananda's impersonal nonsense Mayavadi philosophy has sent West Bengal to hell - go to Prabhupadas letters and read for yourself.

 

Prabhupada: "Ramakrishna Mission is not Vedic. It is a creation of Vivekananda's concoction. It is not Vedic. Just like they created a God, Ramakrishna. So that is not a Vedic sanction, that you create any fool rascal, a god". Perth, May 16, 1975 - 750516TA.PER) © 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust

 

 

[Sarva gattah]

 

to be known as good in the material we contribute while with choice as the eternal spirit lives within all that is imposed; such that time shares the good live forever while the adverse eventually become extinct. (or in current logic; equillibriate to base constituents)

 

Do you believe in individual souls (PERSONALISM) or do you believe 'consciousnesss' is all pervading flowing through all bodily vessels (IMPERSONALISM) experiencing different aspects of itself within those vessels divided by time, space and bodily containment?? In other words, you are me and I am you seperated by time and space

[Bishadi]

first the idea of pinnning me down in a label is foolish (like a scoundrel, rude and corrupt)

 

Imagine if i was always on the label path, you would have a bulls eye on your forehead.

 

 

Do you believe in individual souls (PERSONALISM)

what individual soul?

 

are you suggesting that within our body there is a little floaty, that has all of its memories wrapped up within and the little floaty goes from body to body over time, thinking, remembering all kind of floaty-like.....?

 

is that your idea of a soul?

 

It's all untrue. Memories are affixed to the body. See alzheimers; they meeting new people at most every moment.

 

 

or do you believe 'consciousnesss' is all pervading flowing through all bodily vessels (IMPERSONALISM) experiencing different aspects of itself within those vessels divided by time, space and bodily containment?? In other words, you are me and I am you seperated by time and space

 

in mind we are separate in space and time. That is what our experience to life is consciously speaking of course.

 

Reality shares we are all a part of the 'Alpha and Omega" in the sense; the beginning and ending, all of existence as a single; the total/God.

 

From the spec of dusts to the total of all existence; that is Him at Once!

 

In consciousness we become aware of that little point in time and space, yet related and of the total; in a sense we are Him experiencing life!

 

All of us.

 

Now to comprehend the 'spirit' think of your wake, your splash on existence. Each breath you take and exhale; that energy you impose to existence is your spirit. That is why Karma exists. What you do where you live.

 

any questions?

[ARJ]

 

The Mayavadis see EVERYTHING as illusion, I am u, you are me and we are all together as ONE consciosness.

 

In this way claim to be God

Devotees of Krishna on the other hand, see every living being as as individual identity, every soul or jiva as an eternal individual and Krishna as the Supreme Individual.

 

Everything in NOT an illusion, but rather, a REAL creation of the Lord where Vaikuntha is the permanent aspect of Krishna's personal reality, while the inferior Mahat-tattva (material creation) is also REAL, yet impermanent and forever changing, fading and a decaying as a temporary reality of Krishna's wonderful creation.

Both are real however, Vaikuntha is imperishable while the mahat-tattva is perishable.

In other words the material creation is also very REAL but is temporary

In the Spiritual Sky, there is a cloud that is very real but is always in a state of decay. This is where we consciously transfer our ‘awareness’ in the solid conscious state that is our baddha jiva condition. In other words, the marginal living entity can go, if he chooses, to the material creation (mahat tattva) and not serve Krishna, not as their svarupa body, but rather as a projected dreaming consciousness.

However, because of the 'eternal presents' of Vaikuntha, we can never leave to enjoy separately as our nitya-siddha perpetual bodily self, whom is who we really are within that 'eternal present' of Goloka.

We therefore enter the mahat-tattva cloud in a secondary conscious state that is very real but is normalised or reunited when one is again aware of their svarupa body (nitya-baddha). In this way, leaving Goloka is compared to dreaming, but this baddha jiva self centred dream, unlike the dream state of ones biological body, is very real but expressed in an atmosphere of eternal decay (the maha-tattva)

why it's bothering you what the mayavadis or the shaivas or the shaktas believe in ? why don't you mind your own business ?

[atanu]

 

-

I personally heard Prabhupada say that RamaKrishna and his disciple Vivikananda's impersonal nonsense Mayavadi philosophy has sent West Bengal to hell - go to Prabhupadas letters and read for yourself.

 

Prabhupada: "Ramakrishna Mission is not Vedic. It is a creation of Vivekananda's concoction. It is not Vedic. Just like they created a God, Ramakrishna. So that is not a Vedic sanction, that you create any fool rascal, a god". Perth, May 16, 1975 - 750516TA.PER) © 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust

 

 

 

Namaste Sarva,

 

I am wondering, why he did not lift West Bengal out of the hell? I am inclined to say that a person who uses such profanity as language will lead you deeper into that dark hell faster. (And such colourful bhaktas too, who express glee while posting the profanities, spread by the master, freely on the internet).

 

Om

[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by atanu [as highlighted in red]:

"that you create any fool rascal, a god"

What is your objection to this?

What world-changing/'Nobel-Peace-Prise'-earning endeavor do you pretend to protect from being called:

"So that is not a Vedic sanction, that you create any fool rascal, a god".

 

It is a WONDER to see a boefide self-rightrous Svami claim turf for Krishna's banner (with a picture of Hanuman emblazened on it.

Lead, follow or get out of the way.

 

Your envy and anger is the poignant part of this dialogue--get a hold of your nerves man!

 

You are "representing" what we [Vaishnava-vedantists] call mayavadi [impersonalists due to limited knowledge of Vedanta]--and WE know all about it [except for unsuspecting neophytes].

 

What is Most Important to US is that you have a firm understanding of Vaishnava Philosophy --and that is the cross-word where we are meeting here on this forum.

 

So one day you will have been taught all you will ever need to preform Krishna-Bhakti on your own recognisance.

 

yours in Krishna's Service,

Bhaktajan

[Sarva gattah]

 

why it's bothering you

 

Because Mayavadi philosophy is sending innocent people to HELL

[Sarva gattah]

 

what individual soul?

 

Undoubtedly you are a very philosophical well educated person, what country are you from and what is your opinion of the Srimad Bhagavatam?

[atanu]

 

Originally Posted by atanu [as highlighted in red]:

"that you create any fool rascal, a god"

What is your objection to this?

What world-changing/'Nobel-Peace-Prise'-earning endeavor do you pretend to protect from being called:

"So that is not a Vedic sanction, that you create any fool rascal, a god".

 

It is a WONDER to see a boefide self-rightrous Svami claim turf for Krishna's banner (with a picture of Hanuman emblazened on it.

Lead, follow or get out of the way.

 

Your envy and anger is the poignant part of this dialogue--get a hold of your nerves man!

 

You are "representing" what we [Vaishnava-vedantists] call mayavadi [impersonalists due to limited knowledge of Vedanta]--and WE know all about it [except for unsuspecting neophytes].

 

What is Most Important to US is that you have a firm understanding of Vaishnava Philosophy --and that is the cross-word where we are meeting here on this forum.

 

So one day you will have been taught all you will ever need to preform Krishna-Bhakti on your own recognisance.

 

yours in Krishna's Service,

Bhaktajan

 

Dear Bhakta,

 

'Nobel-Peace-Prise', boefide self-rightrous ' , 'recognisance': Wow, What's all these words? Do you have your nerves in control?

 

It is already known that you do know everything, so you do not have to dilute this by self claiming: and WE know all about it [except for unsuspecting neophytes].

 

 

By the way, if you think that Rascal is a proper civil word then I have nothing to say.

 

Regards

[Sarva gattah]

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All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Jai! Hare Krishna, Hare ...

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[ARJ]

 

Because Mayavadi philosophy is sending innocent people to HELL

 

How do you know about this ? it is as if you've just returned from your trip to HELL.

 

Even the muslims believe every non-muslim (Kafir) will be punished in HELL.

 

The real problem is the declining numbers of ISKCON followers, do what the muslims are doing, start breeding like rats, pretty soon you'll be everywhere.

[bgita67]

This thread is making me cry.

 

I am serious.. there are tears in my eyes from reading this.

 

The way some people behave is not making Krishna Consciousness look attractive. Everything about Krishna is sweet and we should not make Him seem like He specifically is the god of people with a mindset similiar to Muslims and Christians who also believe that everyone but them will go to Hell.

 

According to Bhagavad Gita, there is the path of the Devotee and there is the path of the Impersonalist. Both of them will bring the person to his or her goal, but it is the path of Devotion that is recommended because it is easier, safer, direct, and sweet.

 

In the past days I have been chanting the holy names and they do not make me feel like I should tell everyone else that they are wrong and hellbound. We all have so many chances and lifetimes to return to God. Presenting Bhakti in a much more sweeter and positive light is the way to possibly win someone, atleast one person, over to what they are destined to take up. And we shouldn't be so mean when discussing theology and philosophy, it just isn't right and one's audience or readers will quickly be turned off and they'll remember it the next time that they hear about Vaisnavism.

 

Devotion is sweet and the Devotee should be the same way.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

What is the point in posting a thread attacking someone else's system of belief? Rather than making the thread about MAYAVADIS and how they are so bad and incorrect, why not just speak about what VAISHNAVAS believe about Vaikuntha. There really is no need to bring in mayavadis at all, especially not as the main title of the thread.

 

It would be similar to a shaivite starting a thread called "Hare Krishna's are idiots. They think Vishnu is God."

 

Just present your belief system, and don't get into the evils of everyone else's belief system. When the title of your thread is about another belief system you are inviting them to come and criticize you here. If the thread was named something more appropriate like "The Glories of Vaikuntha" then the mayavadis wouldn't bother reading your thread and you could peacefully discuss what ever it is you wanted to discuss. But when you title things like this you are just provoking others to come and argue with you.

 

If any "mayavadi" made a thread about Hare Krishna beliefs, all the hare krishna followers would complain to ban the "offensive" person. So please be considerate of other's feelings and beliefs. If you are really trying to convince or convert people to your belief system, then speak in a way that is attractive to all people.

[Sarva gattah]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Jahnava Nitai

What is the point in posting a thread attacking someone else's system of belief? Rather than making the thread about MAYAVADIS and how they are so bad and incorrect, why not just speak about what VAISHNAVAS believe about Vaikuntha. There really is no need to bring in mayavadis at all, especially not as the main title of the thread.

It would be similar to a shaivite starting a thread called "Hare Krishna's are idiots. They think Vishnu is God."

 

Just present your belief system, and don't get into the evils of everyone else's belief system. When the title of your thread is about another belief system you are inviting them to come and criticize you here. If the thread was named something more appropriate like "The Glories of Vaikuntha" then the mayavadis wouldn't bother reading your thread and you could peacefully discuss what ever it is you wanted to discuss. But when you title things like this you are just provoking others to come and argue with you.

 

If any "mayavadi" made a thread about Hare Krishna beliefs, all the hare krishna followers would complain to ban the "offensive" person. So please be considerate of other's feelings and beliefs. If you are really trying to convince or convert people to your belief system, then speak in a way that is attractive to all people

 

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If you are really trying to convince or convert people to your belief system, then speak in a way that is attractive to all people

.

 

Thank you Jahnava Nitai prabhu for your kind instructions, you are 100% right, speak of the positives of Krsna katha ONLY - I am still learning, thank you for your knowledgable advice, my apologies to all others on this thread, I will only write about the wonderful pastimes of Lord Krsna in the future which also includes the pastimes of the Lords expansions such as Lord Balarama, Maha Vishnu and Lord Siva.

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by bgita6

thread is making me cry.

 

I am serious.. there are tears in my eyes from reading this.

 

The way some people behave is not making Krishna Consciousness look attractive. Everything about Krishna is sweet and we should not make Him seem like He specifically is the god of people with a mindset similiar to Muslims and Christians who also believe that everyone but them will go to Hell.

 

According to Bhagavad Gita, there is the path of the Devotee and there is the path of the Impersonalist. Both of them will bring the person to his or her goal, but it is the path of Devotion that is recommended because it is easier, safer, direct, and sweet.

 

In the past days I have been chanting the holy names and they do not make me feel like I should tell everyone else that they are wrong and hellbound. We all have so many chances and lifetimes to return to God. Presenting Bhakti in a much more sweeter and positive light is the way to possibly win someone, atleast one person, over to what they are destined to take up. And we shouldn't be so mean when discussing theology and philosophy, it just isn't right and one's audience or readers will quickly be turned off and they'll remember it the next time that they hear about Vaisnavism.

 

Devotion is sweet and the Devotee should be the same way

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This is very moving, I grew up in ISKCON since the age of 16. It is a fact that ISKCON is only a pioneering movement and at times we have been very fanatical, many are sadly still like that in ISKCON Australia however, you are right, just telling others about beautiful Krishna is the best way of winning others over, if not, just keep talking about beautiful Krishna regardless.

[Bishadi]

 

Undoubtedly you are a very philosophical well educated person, what country are you from and what is your opinion of the Srimad Bhagavatam?

 

the works of a contributer conveying the knowledge available at the time

 

philosophical works; shared in compassion for tomorrow.

 

That same opinion could be used for Genesis or Principia to Tantric or Quran.

 

Honoring the works from each compassionate and giving contribution as prepare from each flavor (of mankind) is how to realize the absolute.

 

That combining of knowledge is what we as a species do.

 

ie.... what did Srila do? Combine knowledge for the next generations to understand a little more than the previous.

 

Darwin did the same thing!

 

It is the humbly committed that learn to appreciate each; and say thank you, often!

[atanu]

 

The Mayavadis see EVERYTHING as illusion, I am u, you are me and we are all together as ONE consciosness.

 

In this way claim to be God

 

 

Namaste sarva,

 

No. That is not how an advaitin sees everything. A realised Advaitin knows the Universe as divine Purusha and not as you and me.

 

 

Both are real however, Vaikuntha is imperishable while the mahat-tattva is perishable.

 

 

How can that which perishes be real in ultimate terms?

 

Advaitins merely ask us to abide by that which is always real -- that is God. Moreover, I cannot comprehend how Tattva, which means Thatness perish? How can God's true nature perish, unless there is a mistake in ascribing something else (such as ascribing divisiblity to Atman, which is ever indivisible) as the true nature. It is the mistake of seeing the Tattva as different and separate from Tat.

 

Please do not be hurried.

 

Om

[Sarva gattah]

[atanu]

 

 

 

Namaste Sarva,

 

I see that you have replaced your original post with some art of the poster variety.

 

Thanks