On U.S. election. Srila Prabhupada - 'Why shall I give this nonsense person my vote?

[Amlesh]

 

nope, can't imagine a religion without them

 

 

 

sorry

 

 

That's for sure...

[Ravindran Kesavan]

There is already only one god. Why should not the bhaktas call the One god with thousand names? : Ganesa , Kartikeya, Aditya, Siva, Gowri, Saraswati, Bhrama, Kali, Mahakala, Bhuvaneswari, Matangi, Chinamasta, Tara, Avakohiteswaea, Heruksa , Adonai, Allah, Yehova, Vishnu, Krishna , Karupaswami , Orisha, Obathala, Yemaya, Zious , Rhia, Arthemis, Diana, Freyr,Thor, Eros, Chu-jung, Hu- chi ..... .... ..... ..... ................... ....... ......

 

What is the problem, in humanity chanting the thousand names of The One God ? Or is it that you dont agree with the Vedic Wisdom: "There is one reality, the sages call it by many names" ?

 

K.Ravindran

[Trivedi]

 

There is already only one god. Why should not the bhaktas call the One god with thousand names? : Ganesa , Kartikeya, Aditya, Siva, Gowri, Saraswati, Bhrama, Kali, Mahakala, Bhuvaneswari, Matangi, Chinamasta, Tara, Avakohiteswaea, Heruksa , Adonai, Allah, Yehova, Vishnu, Krishna , Karupaswami , Orisha, Obathala, Yemaya, Zious , Rhia, Arthemis, Diana, Freyr,Thor, Eros, Chu-jung, Hu- chi ..... .... ..... ..... ................... ....... ......

 

What is the problem, in humanity chanting the thousand names of The One God ? Or is it that you dont agree with the Vedic Wisdom: "There is one reality, the sages call it by many names" ?

 

K.Ravindran

 

The problem is that these Christina Conscious guys have no Vedic Wisdom .

 

Trivedi

[Hiranyagarpa]

But they all claim to be direct and aythentic representatives of Vedic Wisdom with out understanding the vedic Concept of god. The trouble with These Veda-proof ( Veda is gurented not to enter their brain) people is that when there is already a perfect name -with the perfect conception of oneness - for that One God in Veda : Brahman, why invent a new name - Krishna - There by creating a division to start with in contradiction to Vedic spirit of Oneness and then go ahead to convert the world that they found the real truth of Veda, and every one should follow them.

 

What is wrong with the good old Vadic name Bhraman?

 

Hiranyagarpa

[Trivedi]

 

But they all claim to be direct and aythentic representatives of Vedic Wisdom with out understanding the vedic Concept of god.

What is wrong with the good old Vadic name Bhraman?

 

Hiranyagarpa

 

They are not all that bad . They know Krishna is Brahman . They also know that Allah and Jesus (or the Father of Jesus) are Krishna, and there fore Brahman. That much Brahma jnana we should credit to them . But this Brahnma jnana goes with the wind when it comes to other Hindu names of God like Ganesh or Siva or Skanda (and all other hindu name of God). Accorrding to them these are not Brahman.

Partial Brahmajanis they are. A litle of Vedic logic they got .Only that they are not consistent with the Vedic logic.

 

Trivedi

[Amlesh]

 

But they all claim to be direct and aythentic representatives of Vedic Wisdom with out understanding the vedic Concept of god. The trouble with These Veda-proof ( Veda is gurented not to enter their brain) people is that when there is already a perfect name -with the perfect conception of oneness - for that One God in Veda : Brahman, why invent a new name - Krishna - There by creating a division to start with in contradiction to Vedic spirit of Oneness and then go ahead to convert the world that they found the real truth of Veda, and every one should follow them.

 

What is wrong with the good old Vadic name Bhraman?

 

Hiranyagarpa

That my friend, if the Bhagvad Gita is in your destiny... you'll understand why.

 

I'll respect your limit of Brahman and say you are right.

 

If the equation krishna = Brahman is out of your comprehension then it does not mean it's the same for the One who got the luck to know and love Him.

 

However for some [ok... many] of the Hare Krishnas, it is a different story...

They think they know when in reality they are far from the Truth.

[bija]

 

The problem is that these Christina Conscious guys have no Vedic Wisdom .

 

Christina who?

But they all...

who?

 

 

They are not all that bad .

 

Tell you a funny thing that happened today Trivedi. Was walking down the street in my little country town and four 27 year old Indian men from the big smoke (city) walked past. Nice clothes, black shirts...nicely preened, full of success. As they walked pass me, 'who was wearing kurti and mala', they spoke some joking words in the mother tongue.

 

Little did they know, this old hippie bum....could understand their lingo. They gave me great praise and called me 'Acarya'

 

Any how, off they strolled with mastery...and jumped into their black car...happy as Larry!! The boys have got some catchin up to do...some of us have already chewed the chewed.

 

Seems like the dancing white elephants simply danced.

[Amlesh]

Thanks Bija... it was high time for many to understand that we cannot generalise even if [All minus 1] are not showing the real value of being one of Hari's.

[bija]

All just a game from both parties Amlesh...we got multi avatara players goin down. Seeking to press their points. All these Hari's are not so many. It is unfortunate, because now we have become a phantom (that doesnt really exist), for the boys to attack. Sincerity has lost its purpose here, as honesty left the game long ago. Tread with caution my friend.

 

Also the place of birth or creed seems to be a point of contention for some. That infact, has nothing to do with vedic culture, or does it? Therefore my conclusion lies here: bhakti is all that counts, the rest will pass away or change. And knowledge at some point, will have served its purpose - of either uniting us or dividing.

 

Maybe it is time for the age of reason.

 

 

From the day that we were born weve been heading down a track

Sometimes its made for good sometimes for bad

But if we look behind us theres a wave coming down

Carrying us forward to a new age

 

What about the world around us

How can we fail to see

And now that our fathers have gone

And weve been left to carry on

What about the age of reason

 

So why cant we be still why cant we love each other

Is kindness an ancient skill buried by our blindness

And if we look behind us theres a wind blowing in

To create the age of reason

 

If we consider carefully the options put before us

So much wisdom so much love so much waiting for us

And if we look ahead theres the sun and the seasons

Another day another age of reason

[Hiranyagarpa]

 

That my friend, if the Bhagvad Gita is in your destiny... you'll understand why.

 

There is no difficulty in understanding Bhagavad Gita. But the problrem is that I understand differently from Hare Christina Guys.

 

I'll respect your limit of Brahman and say you are right.

 

I dont limit Brahman . Hare Christinayans are doing that. That is my point.

 

If the equation krishna = Brahman is out of your comprehension then it does not mean it's the same for the One who got the luck to know and love Him.

 

I comprehend that equation . No difficulty there. The difficulty is in Comprehending the Hare Christina guy's inequality 'Siva is not equal to Brahman', 'Ganesha is not equal to Brahman' .

 

 

However for some [ok... many] of the Hare Krishnas, it is a different story...

They think they know when in reality they are far from the Truth.

 

That precisly is my point sir.

 

 

 

Hiranyagarpa

[bija]

 

'Siva is not equal to Brahman', 'Ganesha is not equal to Brahman' .

There is only one truth Hiranyagarpa. And it is this:

 

Non-dual Truth!

 

There is only one thing that justifies the need for difference as far as I see, and that is love. Beautiful brahman, beautiful love.

 

Sri Caitanya said brahman is Krsna. The gaudiya theology has incorporated all personages into that non-dual truth, that is the way we have chosen to worship and respect all that is.

 

As have many other sampradayas expressed their vision of love in their hearts unique way. Even the sankara sampradaya is exalted. If there is a need for strong philisophical debate...it is only exisiting to enhance rasa and lila.

 

Any one who does not respect that sacred ground (vedic culture), is a mad elephant in a market place of nectar.

 

True hey....

 

We can choose to cultivate the impersonal brahman, or personal brahman (realizations). And if we have been wise, at the time of death we will have arrived at our goal. Whether it be Krsna, Siva, Ganesha etc. how wonderful that is! God is so kind, he wishes the bhakta to manifest reality. Multi layered and inconceivable non-dual truth.

 

There is no need for contention (except for play;) )

 

Jai Acaryadeva!

[Hiranyagarpa]

 

There is only one truth Hiranyagarpa. And it is this:

 

Non-dual Truth!

 

There is only one thing that justifies the need for difference as far as I see, and that is love. Beautiful brahman, beautiful love.

 

Sri Caitanya said brahman is Krsna. The gaudiya theology has incorporated all personages into that non-dual truth, that is the way we have chosen to worship and respect all that is.

 

I aggree on your personal view.

 

But this view is not what I get in this forum by and large. It is the very opposit view that is being forcefully probagated, and even practiced . I know of Vaishnavites who would not drink water from Saivite Brahmins and treat others (even of higher cast non-Vaishnavites ) as untouchables, simply becsause they are not Vaishnavites.

 

Where is the practice of the Non - dual thuth of Veda in their life?

 

It is not a personal attack on You . It is all well for you to sit in some forign country and praise the ISKCON and even other Vaishnava group and think high of Krishna Bakti You may see Krishna as Beautiful Brahman . It may seems to be a fine cut Dimond to you. But we in India at close quarter see the rough and ugly side of the Dimond. I am not against Krishna devotion. But you should know religion - Hindu religion - is not all that clean and holy as you might think . Remember our's is a country wich treated and still treating women as inferior by quoting bhrama sutra, burned women alive by religious sanction, practices untouchability . Many of the posting in this very discussion group refers to and justify the 'Sudra's' inferior statrus. You your self may have noticed that many traditional Vaishnavas believe that forigners are unclean and cannot be Vaishnavas. If you ever visit India go to the famous Krishna temple in Guruivayur in Kerala state. Your beautiful Brahmman _ Krishna , will not let you in, because you are a forigner.

 

Mind you all this is springing from religious doctrines, and indoctrination.

 

Where is the non-dual truth you task about in Vaishnava religion? If it is your personal understanding it is a different matter. But that does not seems to be the dominant Vaishnavite position.

 

Difference is not beautiful. It is ugly. Love does not justify difference as you think. It is hate which is the cause of it. The form of Krishna may be beautiful than the formless Brahman , but the practice that springs from that form is very ugly.

 

Hiranyagarpa.

[kaisersose]

 

Do you think Merriam Webster can give a valid definition of a Vaishnava?

Do you think you can narrow the dimension of the a Vaishnava by giving a definition?

 

Common sense says the answer is Yes to both questions. You can try reading about the concept of a language, its formation, its role in communication, etc. If you want to say an apple is not just an apple, but it should come with a dozen line description to qualify as an apple, then you have other problems to deal with, first - in my opinion.

 

 

It is just like when Hare Krishnas comment on your doctrine of Mayavada.. and you feel really pricky about it saying "what do you know about it".

 

I am not feeling pricky. The objection is due to disemminating false information, baseless information and hearsay information. Ask the iskcon guys how they learnt about Mayavada and they will ignore the question. Their definition did not come out of a dictionary nor from a Mayavada source. It came from a totally unreliable source - Prabhupada and clearly incorrect as they can spend days pouring over Mayavada books and dictionaries, but will not find their definition anywhere. They were misled on the concept of Mayavada - just as they have been misled in several other things as well.

 

In any case, I fail to see how this is relevant to the topic.

 

Cheers

[Sarva gattah]

 

Srila Prabhupada - "Because of the importance of the Krishna consciousness movement, people should be Krishna conscious and should not vote for anyone who is not Krishna conscious. Then there will be actual peace and prosperity in the state. When a Vaishnava sees mismanagement in the government, he feels great compassion in his heart and tries his best to purify the situation by spreading the Hare Krishna movement. (Purport to Bhag. 6.2.3)

Srila Prabhupada - "We don’t very much like this so-called democracy. What is the value of this democracy? All fools and rascals. They vote for another fool and rascal and he becomes prime minister, or this or that. That is not good for the people. We are not for this so-called democracy because they are not trained. (Lecture in London, 24 July 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "The first teaching of Bhagavad-Gita should be taken by the persons who are going to be elected in the government service. The public should be aware of this. If somebody comes to canvass for votes, you should first inquire, “Have you have read Bhagavad-Gita? Mahatma Gandhi read Bhagavad-Gita. Why shouldn’t you? Do you know what is Bhagavad-Gita? If so, then I will give you my vote. Otherwise, get out.”… It is a great necessity that government men must study Bhagavad-Gita. Otherwise, don’t give them vote. (Lecture in Bombay, 22 March 1974)

Devotee: Some of our devotees should run for office.

Prabhupada: No. If you can make the people Krishna conscious, then everything will come automatically. If they vote for a Krishna conscious person to be president and prime minister, then everything will be saved. So that means you have to create Krishna conscious voters. Then everything will be right. That should be one of the aims of the Krishna consciousness movement. The government is still under the control of the public. If the public becomes Krishna conscious then naturally the government will be Krishna conscious. But that is up to the public. (Lecture in Bombay, 6 November 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Educate the people. “Don’t vote for the rascals. Just try to understand who is the real man, who is the real leader. (Morning walk conversation in Los Angeles, 11 December 1973)

Interviewer: Do you think most of the Hare Krishna members will participate in the election in November? Do you think they will register and vote?

Prabhupada: Personally I never give votes.

Interviewer: Will they follow your example and not vote?

Prabhupada: I do not know, but our principle is that I vote for this man or that man if there is some spiritual benefit. That is our point. (Interview with the religion editor of the Associated Press in New York, 16 July 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "I have never given vote. Since we have got this sva-raj, Indian independence, as soon as the vote question comes up, I go away. I think, “Why shall I give this nonsense person my vote? None of them are liked by me.” So I avoid it. I don’t believe in it. (Room Conversation in Bombay, 8 January 1977)

 

What a great read.

[kaisersose]

 

Difference is not beautiful. It is ugly. Love does not justify difference as you think. It is hate which is the cause of it. The form of Krishna may be beautiful than the formless Brahman , but the practice that springs from that form is very ugly.

 

Hiranyagarpa.

 

How meaningful is this criteria? I select and worship a God because the artist has been painting this God with a beatiful human form?

 

The artist drawn human form is more interesting than Brahman (which cannot possibly have a human form), so Brahman must be false? If that is the case, then this so-called Bhakti is the most superficial type of Bhakti ever. It sounds like a Miss America contest or something where the most beautful girl walks away with the crown.

 

Different artists draw Krishna's face differently. Are all these forms attractive or just some selected few? I wonder how that works.

 

Cheers

[bija]

 

I aggree on your personal view.

 

But this view is not what I get in this forum by and large. It is the very opposit view that is being forcefully probagated, and even practiced . I know of Vaishnavites who would not drink water from Saivite Brahmins and treat others (even of higher cast non-Vaishnavites ) as untouchables, simply becsause they are not Vaishnavites.

 

Where is the practice of the Non - dual thuth of Veda in their life?

 

It is not a personal attack on You . It is all well for you to sit in some forign country and praise the ISKCON and even other Vaishnava group and think high of Krishna Bakti You may see Krishna as Beautiful Brahman . It may seems to be a fine cut Dimond to you. But we in India at close quarter see the rough and ugly side of the Dimond. I am not against Krishna devotion. But you should know religion - Hindu religion - is not all that clean and holy as you might think . Remember our's is a country wich treated and still treating women as inferior by quoting bhrama sutra, burned women alive by religious sanction, practices untouchability . Many of the posting in this very discussion group refers to and justify the 'Sudra's' inferior statrus. You your self may have noticed that many traditional Vaishnavas believe that forigners are unclean and cannot be Vaishnavas. If you ever visit India go to the famous Krishna temple in Guruivayur in Kerala state. Your beautiful Brahmman _ Krishna , will not let you in, because you are a forigner.

 

Mind you all this is springing from religious doctrines, and indoctrination.

 

Where is the non-dual truth you task about in Vaishnava religion? If it is your personal understanding it is a different matter. But that does not seems to be the dominant Vaishnavite position.

 

Difference is not beautiful. It is ugly. Love does not justify difference as you think. It is hate which is the cause of it. The form of Krishna may be beautiful than the formless Brahman , but the practice that springs from that form is very ugly.

 

Hiranyagarpa.

 

Thx for sharing Hiranyagarpa. Things desperately need to change...these old religious ways serve no purpose. Even if that means reform within our tradition, it must be done.

 

If we hold to tradition or teachings from time past, and do not evaluate if it is relevant for todays changed world...then that is foolish. A better option would be a traditionalist who is progressive. We must be evolving...this vedic concept of degrading kali age is only external...the reality is something different. As the body (macro) dies the heart shines.

 

But ofcourse my friend all religious history has shown that change is often rejected as faithlessness. And many realized souls have chose to live outside the norm.

 

Religion seems to divide. I was only discussing today with an atheist friend. What is the use of salvation? It seems to only divide...the saint and the sinner (concepts). Maybe it is all neurosis and a hard bind of the mind to get over, guilt and shame. Salvation cannot be the truth...any religion that bases its structure on that is limited, and harms many.

 

I will share with you my heart. Most of what I have learnt, now needs to be let go of. Subtle realms of mind, what purpose does that serve? Preaching to the unsaved, what purpose does that serve? All this duality, stemming from religion, what purpose does that serve?

 

There is only one need. To see all others as above oneself, and to see all others as one's worshipful Deity, that lives in the heart. I wish to discard all else, that inhibits that from actualizing. And being deeply indoctrinated into religious mindset, that will not be an easy task.

 

There is such a thing as hell, it is the mind of unconscious level (for some) - mainly the religious fanatic when it comes to the religious. How to pass through that if cultivated? Better to live with joy, and accept what we are...then the mind is free. And discovery of what God really is begins, when the mind is free from that duality and psychology. Integrated and whole...and well, and happy. Ready for devotion...pure devotion...without fear of breaking rules that bind.

 

Just some thoughts, as I discard that which is now useless and counter to happiness.

 

I dont know if secular society is better than your homeland, it has many problems too. Massive greed as we have seen lately. We each need to awaken, and if the religion stops that, or is some crutch from some neurosis, it needs to be discarded.

 

This is my personal experience and encounter with religion anyhow. All I see in this world is mind. I wish to let that go also.

 

y.s.

[bija]

And Sarah Palin and John McCain and Barak Obama...and quoting Srila Prabhupada to mandate what is best for America. What to say?

[Amlesh]

 

Common sense says the answer is Yes to both questions. You can try reading about the concept of a language, its formation, its role in communication, etc. If you want to say an apple is not just an apple, but it should come with a dozen line description to qualify as an apple, then you have other problems to deal with, first - in my opinion.

 

Yep, the problem is that, you wanted to define the Seer of God not an apple.

 

Had it been so easy, then path for freedom would have been damn easy.

There would not have been fools fooling around.

 

And had it been the case, we would not have found words like literal meaning, esoteric, polysemy et al.

 

 

I am not feeling pricky. The objection is due to disemminating false information, baseless information and hearsay information. Ask the iskcon guys how they learnt about Mayavada and they will ignore the question. Their definition did not come out of a dictionary nor from a Mayavada source. It came from a totally unreliable source - Prabhupada and clearly incorrect as they can spend days pouring over Mayavada books and dictionaries, but will not find their definition anywhere. They were misled on the concept of Mayavada - just as they have been misled in several other things as well.

 

In any case, I fail to see how this is relevant to the topic.

 

Cheers

The same here with your thinking of knowing what Vaishnavism is.

[Amlesh]

Hyranyagarpa: There is no difficulty in understanding Bhagavad Gita.

It's where you erred.

Hyranyagarpa: But the problrem is that I understand differently from Hare Christina Guys.

First of all... do you think the Hare Krishnas understand something?

Secondly... did you understand something?

if you don't find Hari in all that.. then I'll say there are still to learn.

Concerning the Hare Krishnas, to be true, they are not depicting the proper behavior of a TRUE Vaishnava.

 

Hyranyagarpa: I dont limit Brahman . Hare Christinayans are doing that. That is my point.

 

Nope both are doing that.

 

I comprehend that equation . No difficulty there. The difficulty is in Comprehending the Hare Christina guy's inequality 'Siva is not equal to Brahman', 'Ganesha is not equal to Brahman' .

If everyone is Brahman, then who is part of Brahman?

haha...I guess you are right... Everyone is Brahman and Hari should be Parabrahman.

You are Damn good till the level of the Vedas.

When it comes to reconciliation phase of the thesis of Vedas with the anti-thesis of the Upanishad.. which results in the synthesis known as the mediator of THIS and NOT_THIS, which is known as the 13th Upanishad.... THE GITA... THEN I SHOULD SAY ITS YOUR LIMIT.

[Amlesh]

 

All just a game from both parties Amlesh...we got multi avatara players goin down. Seeking to press their points. All these Hari's are not so many. It is unfortunate, because now we have become a phantom (that doesnt really exist), for the boys to attack. Sincerity has lost its purpose here, as honesty left the game long ago. Tread with caution my friend.

 

Also the place of birth or creed seems to be a point of contention for some. That infact, has nothing to do with vedic culture, or does it? Therefore my conclusion lies here: bhakti is all that counts, the rest will pass away or change. And knowledge at some point, will have served its purpose - of either uniting us or dividing.

 

Maybe it is time for the age of reason.

 

I know, that's the sad part... I've not heard from DW since long.. and the same for cBrahma.

 

Missing them a lot.

 

The age of reason... I think it's the age of questioning the existence of the divine. I see everyday newer kinds of stupidity from humans... and that has become reasonable stuff. But the Holy Words of the Lord no one wants to understand.

 

What is Bhakti... only the REAL Bhakta and the Lord knows.. for the rest I would only say... keep it up with your hypothesis testing and your law of probability.

[mahak]

Devotees are living in the world, full of false ego. If they have no false ego, then why do they breathe, because breathing is sensual gratification, so is drinking water and eating food.

 

Devotees are taught by their guru to make the best use of the bad bargain they got when they took birth. Such bad bargains include living within the confines of governments. Now devotees in Iran or China do not have the option of exercizing a right to select their own leaders, so their bad bargain means hiding and keeping Krsna well hidden.

 

But in America, devotees still have a nominal right to vote, and their bad bargain may have a little relief if they select preservation of the freedoms the US was founded on. These freedoms have been severely curtailed, I, mahak the mudmon, cannot guarantee that the vote will be counted, in fact, I predict that the numbers are already on the dtat base, and that the devotees freedom to sing Krsna will be deeply cut and even prohibited by the next generation of fundamentalist fanatics and demoniac guru killers who use the blood of a vaisnava, Lord Jesus Christ, to make a bloodbath of the rest of the world by their apostacitic perverted rapture armageddonism.

 

But as an aspiring vaisnava, I will again vote for one who promises to uphold the freedom from false religions and freedom to practice spiritual life, be it favoring Lord Jesus, Lord Rama, or Lord Allah. I will cast my vote against those who lie about the USA being a christian country when the word "Christian" was forbidden my the founders and writers of the constitution, Deists who valued God over all religion, just as recommended by Krsna to Arjuna. One christian, Patrick Henry, tried to alter the original "Natural God" by re-writing "Christian God", but Franklin, Adams, Thornton, Jefferson, and Paine overruled this abhorration.

 

Misguided devotees may think they are doing God's will by voting for the likes of the snake handler Palin and striking down binLaden's black Obama, but this is how this age works, what is light for some is darkness for others, irreligion is accepted as religious, yadda yadda yadda.

 

But, since we live in the world of bad bargains, we have to watch our children be slaughtered by gutter religiosity. Our hope is to cast a vote and hope freedom still is the law of this land. Whatever, its not going to get better, because this is kali yuga, but we can perhaps put off the blackboots for another term or two.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[bija]

 

The age of reason... I think it's the age of questioning the existence of the divine. I see everyday newer kinds of stupidity from humans... and that has become reasonable stuff. But the Holy Words of the Lord no one wants to understand.

Yes Amlesh what is the bhakta? It is one who has no drop of love. What is divine?

 

As Hiranyagarpa pointed, I am just some dude in a foreign country, blissfully unaware of everything (in Bharata), except my own existence here. Not many here seem to be burning with mad love for God to be honest. I wish I could see constantly that land that was.

 

Love seems to be a thing that burns in the heart with longing, deep hankering, and much pain. Wanting to love God, and realizing at some point this mind and body works on a different principle. Maybe its purpose is done in due course. As Mahak says, false ego is functioning well

 

So I question what is existence, and what is use of religion? Religion is not that burning in the heart (that no man sees). No Jagannatha temple priest, or Hindu tradionalist can bar a man from his own heart.

 

Yesterday I was devastated carrying my goceries home. Town was so passionate and the pain deep. My synesthesia feels deeply, it is a subtle world for me (one of mind). One old lady came up to me (i have been sick with fever), and said 'are you ok?'. Yes was my reply, with mala in hand and longing. Madness seems to have arrived.

 

No fool can say the picture in the heart is just an image, worship nothing. All the buildings and institutions rules are dead stone and words.

 

Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu and Guru of the heart tell me all these things are not bhakti....they are not hladhini shakti. We know Amlesh. And this modern world of abstract values can never purchase that heart or steal Vraj from the eyes. The only prayer must be, when will beatitude arise (and service mood begin)?

[Sarva gattah]

 

But, since we live in the world of bad bargains, we have to watch our children be slaughtered by gutter religiosity. Our hope is to cast a vote and hope freedom still is the law of this land. Whatever, its not going to get better, because this is kali yuga, but we can perhaps put off the blackboots for another term or two.

 

Good points, but which one is the better choice, the cow killer, well they will both support that, or the pro-abortionist?

 

I'd vote for the one who offered incentives to the Hare Krishna various groups like ISKCON, the GAUDAYA MATH and other Hare Krishna branches of Lord Caitanya's tree. I'd need a bit of a sweetener, like free health care cover for all Hare Krishna monks, before I'd vote. Black Or White http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI9OYMRwN1Q

[Amlesh]

 

No Jagannatha temple priest, or Hindu tradionalist can bar a man from his own heart.

 

Perfectly said.

[krishna prem]

 

There is only one truth Hiranyagarpa. And it is this:

 

Non-dual Truth!

 

There is only one thing that justifies the need for difference as far as I see, and that is love. Beautiful brahman, beautiful love.

 

Sri Caitanya said brahman is Krsna. The gaudiya theology has incorporated all personages into that non-dual truth, that is the way we have chosen to worship and respect all that is.

 

We can choose to cultivate the impersonal brahman, or personal brahman (realizations). And if we have been wise, at the time of death we will have arrived at our goal. Whether it be Krsna, Siva, Ganesha etc. how wonderful that is! God is so kind, he wishes the bhakta to manifest reality. Multi layered and inconceivable non-dual truth.

 

There is no need for contention (except for play;) )

 

Jai Acaryadeva!

 

Mr/Ms Bija,

 

You are talking in double tongue. With Vaishnavite members you talk <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> bhakti. With a mavavadi you support in mayavada. Are You a Vishnava or a Mayavadi, pretending to be a Vishnava to disgrace Vaishnava dharma? .

If you are a Vaishnava you should not hear even mayavada let alone actively adopting it and propagating it.

 

Krishna Prem

*********************************************

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare