Non-dual truth and Krsna - for our guest krishna Prema Prabhu

[bija]

Quote:

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There is only one truth Hiranyagarpa. And it is this:

Non-dual Truth!

 

There is only one thing that justifies the need for difference as far as I see, and that is love. Beautiful brahman, beautiful love.

 

Sri Caitanya said brahman is Krsna. The gaudiya theology has incorporated all personages into that non-dual truth, that is the way we have chosen to worship and respect all that is.

 

We can choose to cultivate the impersonal brahman, or personal brahman (realizations). And if we have been wise, at the time of death we will have arrived at our goal. Whether it be Krsna, Siva, Ganesha etc. how wonderful that is! God is so kind, he wishes the bhakta to manifest reality. Multi layered and inconceivable non-dual truth.

 

 

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Mr/Ms Bija,

 

You are talking in double tongue. With Vaishnavite members you talk ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> bhakti. With a mavavadi you support in mayavada. Are You a Vishnava or a Mayavadi, pretending to be a Vishnava to disgrace Vaishnava dharma? .

If you are a Vaishnava you should not hear even mayavada let alone actively adopting it and propagating it. quote by Krishna Prema

[bija]

Have you read Vedanta Sutra (Govinda Bhasya) by Baladeva Vidyabhushana.

 

It very clearly says a spirit soul can choose to have a spiritual body, or choose to not have a spiritual body. That is what I am refering to in the above quotes.

 

Here is the full Govinda Bhasya for your pleasure: click here

 

[bija]

In regards to use of the words 'Non-dual truth'.

 

Here is scriputural evidence by Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Goswami:

 

 

 

 

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 22.7

advaya-jñāna-tattva kṛṣṇa — svayaḿ bhagavān

'svarūpa-śakti' rūpe tāńra haya avasthāna

SYNONYMS

advaya-jñāna — of nondual knowledge; tattva — the principle; kṛṣṇa — Lord Kṛṣṇa; svayam bhagavān — Himself the Supreme Personality of Godhead; svarūpa — personal expansions; śakti — of potencies; rūpe — in the form; tāńra — His; haya — there is; avasthāna — existence.

TRANSLATION

"Kṛṣṇa is the nondual Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although He is one, He maintains different personal expansions and energies for His pastimes.

PURPORT

The Lord has many potencies, and He is nondifferent from all these potencies. Because the potencies and the potent cannot be separated, they are identical. Kṛṣṇa is described as the source of all potencies, and He is also identified with the external potency, the material energy. Kṛṣṇa also has internal potencies, or spiritual potencies, which are always engaged in His personal service. His internal potency is different from His external potency. Kṛṣṇa's internal potency and Kṛṣṇa Himself, who is the potent, are always identical.

http://vedabase.net/cc/madhya/22/7/

[bija]

Here is another book you should read:

 

Sri Brhad Bhagavatamrita by Sanatana Goswami - click here

 

It further clarifies my conclusion of the universality of Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

 

In it a devotee takes a journey through all the Vaikuntha planets where various Deities are worshipped. Eventually the devotee arrives at Goloka.

 

Sanatana Goswami has written a masterpiece to glorify Krishna Bhakti, without offending those of other thought. Please read this book.

 

y.s.

[bija]

We can choose to cultivate the impersonal brahman, or personal brahman (realizations). And if we have been wise, at the time of death we will have arrived at our goal. Whether it be Krsna, Siva, Ganesha etc. how wonderful that is! God is so kind, he wishes the bhakta to manifest reality. Multi layered and inconceivable non-dual truth. by Bija

Here is evidence from Govinda Bhasya (Vedanta Sutra), to clarify my statement:

 

 

 

 

 

Adhikarana 5

The Soul's Desires Are Fulfilled

Introduction by Shrila Baladeva Vidyabhushana

Now the author of the sutras will describe the truth that all the desires of the liberated soul are at once fulfilled. In the Chandogya Upanishad (8.12.3) it is said:

sa tatra paryeti jakshan kridan ramamanah stribhir va yanair va jnatibhir va

"Laughing and enjoying pastimes, he is happy in the company of wives, relatives, and chariots."

Samshaya (doubt): Does the liberated soul's meeting with his relatives and the others happen because of an endeavor of his part or does it happen spontaneously simply by his desire?

Purvapaksha (the opponent speaks): In the material world even kings and other powerful people, of whom it is said that their every desire is fulfilled, must still exert some effort to attain that fulfillment. In the same way the liberated souls attain their desires by willing accompanied with action.

Siddhanta (conclusion): In the following words the author of the sutras gives His conclusion.

Sutra 8

sankalpad eva tac chruteh

sankalpat—by desire; eva—indeed; tat—that; chruteh—because of the Shruti-shastra.

Indeed it is by desire, because of the Shruti-shastra.

Purport by Shrila Baladeva Vidyabhushana

Simply by willing the liberated souls attain what they wish. How is that known? The sutra explains, "tac chruteh" (because of the Shruti-shastra). In the Chandogya Upanishad (8.2.1) it is said:

sa yadi pitriloka-kamo bhavati sankalpad evasya pitarah samuttishthanti. tena pitrilokena sampanno mahiyate.

 

"If desires to go to Pitriloka, simply by his will he finds the pitas standing before him. In this way he finds himself glorified by the residents of Pitriloka."

In this way the Shruti-shastra affirms that he attains his wishes by merely willing that they be fulfilled. Any other view cannot be accepted here. In the previously quoted passage of Brihad-aranyaka Upanishad (4.5.13), the statement was qualified by other evidence from the scriptures. In this passage, however, we see not other statements of scripture that might qualify or change the clear statement of these words. However, this kind of liberation, where the soul's own happiness and glory and power are prominent, is not liked by they who are eager to taste the nectar of service to the Supreme Lord. They reject it and they speak many words criticizing it.

[bija]

 

We can choose to cultivate the impersonal brahman, or personal brahman (realizations). by bija

Here is evidence that the soul can choose.

 

 

from Vedanta Sutra (Govinda Bhasya):

 

Adhikarana 7

The Spiritual Body

Introduction by Shrila Baladeva Vidyabhushana

Now the author of the sutras will show that the liberated soul has a spiritual body.

Samshaya (doubt): Does the liberated soul who has attained the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as described in Chandogya Upanishad (8.12.3), have a spiritual body or does he not? Can he have any body he wishes, or can he not?

Purvapaksha (the opponent speaks): Here Badari Muni gives his opinion.

Sutra 10

abhave badarir aha hy evam

abhave—in non-existence; badarih—Badari Muni; aha—says; hi—because; evam—thus.

Badari Muni says there is none, for thus it is said.

Purport by Shrila Baladeva Vidyabhushana

Badari Muni thinks that the liberated soul has no body. The body and its paraphernalia are all created by past karma. Because he is free from all past karma, the liberated soul does not have a body. Why is that? The sutra explains, "aha hy evam" (thus it is said). The word "hi" here means “because". In Chandogya Upanishad (8.12.1) it is said:

na ha vai sa-sharirasya satah priyapriyayor apahatir asti. ashariram vava santam priyapriye na sprishatah

"He who has a body cannot become free of pleasure and pain. Only one who has no body is untouched by pleasure and pain."

This means that as long as the body is present it is not possible to be free of sufferings. That is why the Upanishad explains:

asmat sharirat samutthaya

"The soul then leaves the body."

Also, in Shrimad-Bhagavatam it is said:

dehendriyasu-hinanam

vaikuntha-pura-vasinam

"They who live in the spiritual world have neither bodies nor senses."

Sutra 11

 

 

aha hy evam jaiminir vikalpamananat

 

aha—says; hi—because; evam—thus; jaiminih—Jaimini Muni; vikalpa—opinion; amananat—by thought.

 

 

Jaimini Muni has that opinion, because it is said thus and because that view is accepted.

 

Purport by Shrila Baladeva Vidyabhushana

 

 

Jaimini Muni thinks the liberated soul has a body. Why is that? The sutra explains, "vikalpamananat" (because that view is accepted). In the Bhuma-vidya passage of the Chandogya Upanishad (7.26.2) it is said that the liberated soul can manifest many different bodies simultaneously:

 

 

sa ekadha bhavati dvidha tridha bhavati pancadha saptadha navadha caiva punash caikadasha smritah. shatam ca dasha caikash ca sahasrani ca vimshatih.

 

 

"He becomes one. Then he becomes two. Then three. Then five. Then seven. Then nine. Then eleven. He becomes one hundred and ten. He becomes one thousand and twenty."

 

Because the individual spirit soul is atomic in nature, it cannot expand itself to become many different bodies, so these bodies must be possessions of the atomic soul. Nor can it be said that this statement of the Upanishad is not true, for this is in a passage describing the process of liberation. The body described here must actually exist, and also it must not have been created by past karmic reactions. This will be explained later with a quote from the Smriti-shastra.

 

In the next sutra Vyasadeva gives His opinion.

 

 

Sutra 12

 

 

dvadashaha-vad ubhaya-vidham badarayano 'tah

 

dvadasha—twelve; aha—days; vat—like; ubhaya—both; vidham—kinds; badarayanah—Vyasadeva; atah—therefore.

 

 

Vyasadeva says it is of both kinds, like the twelve days.

 

Purport by Shrila Baladeva Vidyabhushana

 

 

Lord Vyasadeva thinks that because the liberated soul's every desire is at once fulfilled both conditions must be true. This is so because statements describing both conditions are found in the scriptures. Therefore it should be accepted that the liberated soul may have a body, and again he may not have a body. This is like the twelve days. A twelve-day yajna becomes, by the wish of the yajamana, either a satra, which has many yajamanas, or an ahina, which has many yajamanas. There is no contradiction in this. In the same way the liberated soul may, by his own wish, either have a body or not have a body. That is the meaning. The truth is that they who by the power of transcendental knowledge have broken the bonds of material existence are in a situation where all their desires are at once fulfilled. Those amongst them who desire to have a body can at once have any body they wish. This is described in Chandogya Upanishad (7.26.2). They who do have no desire to have a body do not have a body. This is described in Chandogya Upanishad (8.12.1). They who desire always to employ a spiritual body in the service of the Supreme Lord eternally manifest such a body by their spiritual powers. That is how it should be understood. In the Brihad-aranyaka Upanishad (2.4.14) it is said:

 

 

yatra tv asya sarvam atmaivabhut tat kena kam pashyet

 

 

"Everything there is spiritual. What is the nature of the seer? What is the nature of the seen?"

 

In the Madhyandina-shruti it is said:

 

 

sa va esha brahma-nishtha idam shariram martyam atishrijya brahmabhisampadya brahmana pashyati brahmana shrinoti brahmanaivedam sarvam anubhavati

 

 

"Devoted to the Supreme Lord, the individual soul leaves his mortal body and meets the Lord. By the Lord's grace he sees. By the Lord's grace he hears. By the Lord's grace he perceives everything."

 

In the Smriti-shastra it is said:

 

 

vasanti yatra purushah

sarve vaikuntha-murtayah

 

 

"Everyone there has a spiritual form like that of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

 

The spiritual desire of the soul is cultivated from the very beginning of his devotional activities. This is described in the "yatha kratuh" maxim and also in the following words of the Smriti-shastra:

 

 

gacchami vishnu-padabhyam

vishnu-drishtyanudarshanam

 

 

"I walk with Lord Vishnu's feet. I see with Lord Vishnu's eyes."

In the Smriti-shastra it is again said:

 

 

muktasyaitad bhavishyati

 

 

"This is the nature of the liberated soul."

[bija]

Quote:

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Mr/Ms Bija,

 

You are talking in double tongue. With Vaishnavite members you talk ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> bhakti. With a mavavadi you support in mayavada. Are You a Vishnava or a Mayavadi, pretending to be a Vishnava to disgrace Vaishnava dharma? .

If you are a Vaishnava you should not hear even mayavada let alone actively adopting it and propagating it. quote by Krishna Prema </td></tr></tbody></table>

 

You have called into question my devotion in the other thread Prabhu.

 

You asked what is my standing.

 

Here is my standing: I desire to cultivate a spiritual body that may be applied in service to Sri Guru and Gauranga.

Am I a Vaishnava? No. To degraded in life unfortunately. By some good fortune a Vaishnava has granted me his shelter and love.

My words at Audarya are not perfect, I am a conditioned soul, who fluctuates from day to day (depending on mood). My posts are mixed, siddhanta and my mind. Please grant me the grace just to be and grow, as Sri Kanthdk71 and others here have allowed.

While in this earthly realm I will always seek harmony above all else, and present Gaudiya philosophy in a way that does not offend, but instead hopefully to convince and inspire people to also cultivate spiritual form.

 

 

This is a very diverse forum, and there has been many offensive arguments. I try my hardest to minimize offensive talk, and set some example of courtesy. While being in this forum I have made friends. Often I have wished to leave this place, but Krsna guides me to serve here and press on. I am happy to be here with Jahnava Nitai dasa.

 

If that service does not satisfy your high standard of Vaisnavism, please forgive me.

 

You may choose your way, and call me what you want. Please continue to serve in purity.

 

I hope the above scriptural quotes have made clearer my words.

 

May I suggest Audarya Fellowship may not be the best place for you, if you desire to avoid hearing other philisophical viewpoints (such as mayavada).

 

 

y.s.

[Bishadi]

share your opinion of what makes Krishna, Vishnu?

[bija]

Vishnu is transcendental reality Bishadi. Devotional service is also considered transcendental (even in its budding stage).

 

So for me, Sri GaurangaKrishna is the one who desires that service.

It is about the heart and the cultivation of devotion, that is the only area of substantial reality for the bhakta (not all these labels and creeds).

 

The dogma (and creed) is only a servant to bring one to understanding.

 

My faith and intelligence (buddhi-yoga) says that heart area transcends the mind...and cultivation of that realm in the human encounter (of spiritual reality), is the source of peace (consciousness free of material suffering). By the kindness of super-soul (visnu tattva). Love (service mood) being the ultimate liberation, rather than the liberation itself.

 

Why sweet and merciful Sri GaurangaKrishna; because that is a personal relationship between soul and super-soul (and the spiritual emotions involved). It is intrinsic to the soul (me) and original. Why? Only God knows the true nature of spirit and soul (who I am eternally) and why I exist. Those things are revealed to the heart in due course, and not for public viewing. Such a realm is considered the source of being, by the devotee. The internal potency of God.

 

 

While in this world we serve super-soul at every step. One way or another.

 

 

Namah Om Visnu Padaya

Krishna Presthaya Bhutale...

 

Namo Maha Vadanyaya Krsna Prema Pradaya Te...

I hope this answers your question dear Bishadi, thank you for asking. You are very kind.

[atanu]

 

There is only one truth Hiranyagarpa. And it is this:

 

Namaskar Bija,

 

Thanks for the nice post. You, IMO, should integrate the above knowledge with the following (which has also been posted in another thread):

 

Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 3

2. For there is one Rudra only, they do not allow a second, who rules all the worlds by his powers. He stands behind all persons, and after having created all worlds he, the protector, rolls it up at the end of time.

3. That one god, having his eyes, his face, his arms, and his feet in every place, when producing heaven and earth, forges them together with his arms and his Wings.

4. He, the creator and supporter of the gods, Rudra, the great seer, the lord of all, he who formerly gave birth to Hiranyagarbha, may he endow us with good thoughts.

 

The same knowledge is also there in Maha Narayana Upanishad.

 

There, through our sleeping (realm of Sarvesvara all attractive dark Krishna-Rudra), Dreaming (realm of luminous creator Hiranyagarbha) and Waking (realm of Agnivaisvanara) is one Seer, who knows these states and remains unchanged.

 

This achintyam is the Shiva Advaita Atman Turya who never slumbers. Lord Krishna is known truly when He is known as Shiva Advaita Atman.

 

Om

[bija]

I am a bit weary to speak from the heart here presently in case I offend some peoples belief. But I will say this: Lord Shiva is an integral part of my spirituality...and one will do great harm if he degrades himself by saying Siva is greatest or Visnu is greatest etc, making polemics. The non-dual truth is not that.

 

Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura (gaudiya acaraya) says if one makes that mistake and offence, of polemics regarding VIsnu/Shiva, he will have to beg the devotees forgiveness, and remedy by 'constant' chanting of the Holy Name. I have posted the scripture reference of this numerous times on this forum for my own benefit. I can source it again maybe, if some need.

 

Amlesh made the same suggestion on the other thread tonight:

 

 

The best I can do is to remain silent... any argument will bring blasphemy to either Lord Shiva or Lord Vishnu or Both, which is the least desirable. by Amlesh

 

One good friend contacted me from AmritaPuri ashram today. He is adoring Amma's sangha. I am happy for him.

Love to you Atanu.