Why should I worship the guru?

[CCC]

Why guru worship?

 

So called gurus say that one should worship them, why? even if they are genuine gurus why one should worship them?

 

For example no one in the hare krsnas' sampradaya was worshipped like Srila Prabhupada, why I should worship him? really I think that this is idolatry and is harmful for the spiritual life, Yesterday i was talking with a devote and I said him really I dont like your guru, I think that he is responsible for the actual situation in the movement and I think that the temple president is just a victim (talking about some issues in a non iskcon local temple) then he wanted to beat me! just see how fanatics are guru worshippers! if you say something against them you are an envious demon a rascal!

 

why one should worship the guru if he is not god just his representative (so called)?

[theist]

 

why one should worship the guru if he is not god just his representative (so called)?

 

A valid question. First we have to be sure that the guru is really the representative of Krishna. If he is genuine he will not insist on any honor being paid to himself by others in general and to such a person we should pay all honors.

 

Another point is that the ambassador to another land is given respect as the representative of that land. To respect him is taken as respecting the King.

 

It pleases Krishna to see his devotee appreciated properly.

 

Also real worship of the guru is not worshiping the guru as a stand-alone being apart from God. The Guru (genuine) is one with Krishna so worshiping him IS worshiping Krishna. Always remembering the doctrine of Lord Caitanya of simultaneousl oneness and difference. Worshiping guru means worshipping two and not just one.

If we are worshipping guru without perceiving this linkage then our worship is external and is contaminated with a false image(idol worship).

 

CCC you needn't feel pressured into accepting any of the visable people on the scene as guru. You needn't feel pressure from the ritviks either. You already have the siksa of Srila Prabhupada. Beyond that Lord Caitanya is the universal guru.

 

We can simply pay our resectful obeisances in gratitude for the priceless siksa Srila Prabhupada has given us and to the extent that we practice those instructions our lives will become perfect.

 

Following the instructions, especially the internal ones, is more valuable then any formal guru puja or religious display.

 

I know the fanatic followers always try to convince you to accept their chosen person as your own guru so I would suggest just avoiding the topic with them.

[srikanthdk71]

 

Why guru worship?

 

Coz you derive that knowledge which comes with you even after you die.

 

 

So called gurus say that one should worship them, why? even if they are genuine gurus why one should worship them?

 

Why not? The guru parampara is very ancient. Without it, we wouldnt have derived any knowledge.

 

 

For example no one in the hare krsnas' sampradaya was worshipped like Srila Prabhupada, why I should worship him?

 

If you havent gained any spiritual knowledge from SP or anybody dont worship. But when you gain that knowledge you reverence to the one from whom you gained it will turn to worshipfulness. To understand better, it can be said 'The best Payback'.

 

 

 

really I think that this is idolatry and is harmful for the spiritual life,

 

Do not come to conclusions without experiencing anything.

 

 

Yesterday i was talking with a devote and I said him really I dont like your guru, I think that he is responsible for the actual situation in the movement and I think that the temple president is just a victim (talking about some issues in a non iskcon local temple) then he wanted to beat me! just see how fanatics are guru worshippers! if you say something against them you are an envious demon a rascal!

 

You need not generalise your personal experience. It doesnt apply to all. Well, eventhough personally I do not revere the ISKONites, I do believe that there are many many pure gems within it. Look, they believe in something formulated by their guru. Do you believe in something better or know better, you can always contradict. Contradiction without reason or logic is the height of foolishness.

 

 

why one should worship the guru if he is not god just his representative (so called)?

 

Coz you and I are not even that what he is. We should believe that he is better qualified than us to take us towards what he knows best.

[suchandra]

 

Why guru worship?

 

So called gurus say that one should worship them, why? if you say something against them you are an envious demon a rascal!

 

why one should worship the guru if he is not god just his representative (so called)?

 

Good point, these pseudo gurus have to demand of being worshiped. A genuine guru performs such wonderful activities that we develop natural admiration to such a guru. In other words, he performs such amazing activities that you feel bad not worshiping him.

 

Pseudo gurus don't reach the hearts of conditioned souls, so nobody feels spiritually attracted to follow such a guru. In fact they have to fool the innocent with material opulence, stylish outfit, deep voice etc. and even remind them again and again to worship them because people in general also don't understand why to worship such a guru.

[Sunil Uppal]

Point very well made. Genuine Guru - a Krishna follower or Devi Bhakt or on any other spiritual track will never put himself in front of the Almighty. He can be GODs representative but NOT GOD himself and hence can command due respect but not replace him. Guru’s role is to hold an individual’s finger, show the path (put him on track step by step) and provide him the right guidance which will take him closer to GOD (the eternal bliss). And only respective individuals who have trekked on the path himself, knows the route clearly (so that he can tell where to start or stop or take a diversion if needed) and have made the connection with GOD already are Genuine Guru for me.

Guru is like a guide, a link between an individual and the almighty who cannot be replaced for sure but if there’s an individual who gets himself worshiped in the name of GOD then am sorry he’s not genuine.

[srikanthdk71]

 

Guru is like a guide, a link between an individual and the almighty who cannot be replaced for sure but if there’s an individual who gets himself worshiped in the name of GOD then am sorry he’s not genuine.

 

Nicely quoted. A guru is like a bridge who can be a path to the almighty. You can go and come in that path but not build a house on it. But the institutional gurus of the present era first asks the seeker to build a house on the bridge thereby blocking the seeker in his path. The seeker is stuck in the beliefs of the guru and not go beyond it. In this case he is not a guide but a hindrance.

[vamsikg]

Hi my Date of Birth is 14-9-1978

Time of Birth is 1:00AM

Place of Birth is Khammam, Andhrapradesh

Please tell me when i will get married iam also phasing through Astama Shani now

Please help me in this ?

[kimfelix]

This is a very interesting subject. The guru can be a learned teacher who has knowledge of the scripture and passes on that knowledge to the disciple. He teaches the texts and explains them. Such a guru is to be shown respect and reverence as a teacher but not puja in the form of guru-puja. The Kena Upanishad is informative on the subject. There the guru informs a seeker that the highest truth cannot be conveyed by a teacher it can only come through realisation.

 

But in some traditions the guru has the role of empowering the mantra and then using the empowered mantra to install the Deity within the disciple, as at the prana-pratishtha of the murti. The guru is worshipped then not for himself because the Deity has been installed within his person. So I think in those traditions the guru-puja is not worship of the guru so much as the Deity present within the guru. The guru then installs the Deity within the disciple through mantra-diksha.

 

I am not sure how ISKCON perceives the matter. From an outsider's perspective it seems that they regard the guru as a teacher of Vedic wisdom but worship the guru as if he were an embodiment of the Deity. So perhaps there is a mixture of the two ideas.

[Kulapavana]

 

For example no one in the hare krsnas' sampradaya was worshipped like Srila Prabhupada, why I should worship him? really I think that this is idolatry and is harmful for the spiritual life...

 

Personally, I think that daily guru-puja in front of the Deities is not appropriate for any guru, not even Srila Prabhupada. It goes against the pancharatrik injunctions and sets a dangerous precedent. Placing murtis of the guru on the altar is also not part of our tradition. Our Iskcon standards of guru worship are way over the top, dissuading many people from taking our movement seriously.

 

I know why Srila Prabhupada implemented elaborate worship of guru in his movement - there were many people among his disciples who wanted to take Prabhupada's place. Some (like Kirtanananda) wanted to do it shortly after becoming his disciples, others (like the LA group in 1970) tried to do it after they acquired some power and followers. With so many disciples greedy for power, profit, and distinction, Prabhupada wanted to keep his movement together by focusing worship on him, as the founder acharya of Iskcon. It was a political decision and at the time probably the only practical solution.

[CCC]

 

A valid question. First we have to be sure that the guru is really the representative of Krishna. If he is genuine he will not insist on any honor being paid to himself by others in general and to such a person we should pay all honors.

 

Another point is that the ambassador to another land is given respect as the representative of that land. To respect him is taken as respecting the King.

 

It pleases Krishna to see his devotee appreciated properly.

 

I agree with you, one should respect the representative of God but respecting and worshipping are not the same, I mean that worshipping is for God only and one should respect his representative. For example, once a person says to Lord Jesuschirst "good master" and He replied "why you say like that, Only God is good" my interpretation is that Lord Jesuchrist is warning us about people who says that are representative of God and want be treated like God or people who thinks that his guru will save them, his words are absolute and perfect, free from error, the embodiment of all good qualities of god or the divinity., etc etc etc...

[CCC]

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Why guru worship?

Coz you derive that knowledge which comes with you even after you die.

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but that knowledge is not fabricated by the guru, the guru receives that knowledge and his duty is to share it, one should not worship the guru for this because all is arranged by God, if you receive this knowledge is thanks to God, not the physical person acting as guru.

 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> So called gurus say that one should worship them, why? even if they are genuine gurus why one should worship them?

 

 

Why not? The guru parampara is very ancient. Without it, we wouldnt have derived any knowledge.

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the guruparampara is arranged by the Lord, for example when this guru system is broken He will re-establish it, but this depend in the Lord not the gurus, for example even before the battle of Kuruksetra all the people in the war -except the pandavas- were already death Arjuna just fight, at the begining Arjuna didn't want to fight, but this didn't depend in the result of the war, also Srila Prabhupada came to the west with the gaudiya vaishnavism (with his own additions), all people praise Prabhupada for his work, but his work was the arrangement of Krsna, if prabhupada had not arrived to the west that means that no one today could know the gaudiya vaishnavism? NO! I am 100% sure that the Lord would sent another person. Again one should respect the representative of God, but no fall in love with them make them the life and soul of oneself, the savior and or worship them as God.

 

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[CCC]

 

Personally, I think that daily guru-puja in front of the Deities is not appropriate for any guru, not even Srila Prabhupada. It goes against the pancharatrik injunctions and sets a dangerous precedent. Placing murtis of the guru on the altar is also not part of our tradition. Our Iskcon standards of guru worship are way over the top, dissuading many people from taking our movement seriously.

could you tell us more about the pancaratrika injuctions?

 

 

I know why Srila Prabhupada implemented elaborate worship of guru in his movement - there were many people among his disciples who wanted to take Prabhupada's place. Some (like Kirtanananda) wanted to do it shortly after becoming his disciples, others (like the LA group in 1970) tried to do it after they acquired some power and followers. With so many disciples greedy for power, profit, and distinction, Prabhupada wanted to keep his movement together by focusing worship on him, as the founder acharya of Iskcon. It was a political decision and at the time probably the only practical solution.

yes it s a fact that many disciples were hungry for being gurus, but

it seems that the solution was worst, too much stress on his worship and many wanted to imitate him, it seems that the most rasoneable solution was stopping his own worship and not stressing it, even it was useless his own legal letter about his ritvik system for this very same reason: not teaching with his example.

[srikanthdk71]

 

but that knowledge is not fabricated by the guru, the guru receives that knowledge and his duty is to share it, one should not worship the guru for this because all is arranged by God, if you receive this knowledge is thanks to God, not the physical person acting as guru.

 

From where did the Guru get his knowledge? His Guru....and the tree goes on. It is believed that the knowledge of God flows through this tree. Now, coming to your Guru, he is infact a physical person. But you will agree God has chosen him to flow HIS knowledge to you through that Guru. Hence the guru qualifies to be the chosen one from God himself. That reverence turns into worshipfulness and nothing questionable.

 

 

the guruparampara is arranged by the Lord, for example when this guru system is broken He will re-establish it, but this depend in the Lord not the gurus

 

Anything arranged by the lord cannot be broken. It is just establishing and no question of re-establishing. If something can be broken, then he is not God.

 

 

for example even before the battle of Kuruksetra all the people in the war -except the pandavas- were already death Arjuna just fight, at the begining Arjuna didn't want to fight, but this didn't depend in the result of the war, also Srila Prabhupada came to the west with the gaudiya vaishnavism (with his own additions), all people praise Prabhupada for his work, but his work was the arrangement of Krsna, if prabhupada had not arrived to the west that means that no one today could know the gaudiya vaishnavism? NO! I am 100% sure that the Lord would sent another person. Again one should respect the representative of God, but no fall in love with them make them the life and soul of oneself, the savior and or worship them as God.

 

So you believe that there is a meaning to everything. Even somethings which seems to look meaningless at times derives meaning when the right chord is struck at the right time. Everything that happens, happens for good. You and I can just question it or refute among us.

[bija]

 

Why should I worship the guru? by ccc

 

Affection awakens ccc when we see more than the external. Then bhajan has awakened.

 

When internal association and identification (of the soul) is awakened, the gift has passed down down even to the unworthy, if the higher principle chooses. That priniciple is free to give to whom it chooses. Bhakti comes that way - from that direction.

 

Then it becomes not a matter of why should one worship. But instead, how can one 'not help' but worship. Because what is seen is God. It is the soul proper. Guru internal and external become one. The dynamic grows from there - ever new!

 

This is the shakti. Which enters into us, and empowers us. That is why there is no question of why? It is spontaneous devotion.

 

That is real relationship, affection...and friendship. Guru is friend and full of love.

 

All conflict is externals (not soul and love). By Guru's grace we all must seek the internal. Even if we have sought the opulence of the heavens (the subtle external world) in our youthful folly, and been granted...at some point we will want more satisfaction. The internal (in relations). That is the land of affection. Our inner substance can only satisfy. Scripture says the demigods are always harrassed by the demons. So that land is not our home...we need to go further. Self-realization.

 

 

So you believe that there is a meaning to everything. Even somethings which seems to look meaningless at times derives meaning when the right chord is struck at the right time. Everything that happens, happens for good. You and I can just question it or refute among us. by Sri

 

Thank you.

[theist]

 

I agree with you, one should respect the representative of God but respecting and worshipping are not the same, I mean that worshipping is for God only and one should respect his representative. For example, once a person says to Lord Jesuschirst "good master" and He replied "why you say like that, Only God is good" my interpretation is that Lord Jesuchrist is warning us about people who says that are representative of God and want be treated like God or people who thinks that his guru will save them, his words are absolute and perfect, free from error, the embodiment of all good qualities of god or the divinity., etc etc etc...

 

But if we follow your conclusion on Jesus' statement then we would have to conclude that it is wrong to worship Jesus. I cannot accept that. Guru naturally is humble and his only mission to to reveal the Supreme Lord so at every oppurtunity he minimizes himself and glorifies the Lord.

 

At another time he allowed a woman to wash his feet in costly oil over the objections of some of his own disciples.

[Kulapavana]

 

could you tell us more about the pancaratrika injuctions?

According to the pancaratrika injunctions NOBODY is to be worshipped in front of the Deities. That is why Deity curtains are closed even for the worship of Tulasi-devi. A disciple is permitted to place his guru shoes on the left side and lower of the Deities. Placing images or murtis of your guru is never mentioned in the pancaratrik system.

 

 

yes it s a fact that many disciples were hungry for being gurus, but

it seems that the solution was worst, too much stress on his worship and many wanted to imitate him, it seems that the most rasoneable solution was stopping his own worship and not stressing it, even it was useless his own legal letter about his ritvik system for this very same reason: not teaching with his example.

 

In hindsight it is easy to say that. Actually I think even a better solution would have been removing challengers from Iskcon altogether. I have absolutely no idea why Srila Prabhupada not only allowed Kirtanananda to remain in Iskcon after his numerous deviations and indiscretions, but made him one of the most important leaders in his movement, and in 1977 authorizing him to be a guru.

[Bishadi]

 

Why guru worship?

 

because it (they) are a material objects considered the originator

 

but that person is not doing anything for anyone except sharing knowledge

 

so the knowledge that combines the mind with the experience is what to appreciate, the guru simply made a good choice to contribute (Godhead)

 

Jesus or even Krishna cannot raise anyone from the dead; nor fix a tumor, cancer or diabetes...etc...

 

Imagine Jesus/Krishna on the hill and everyone was gathered to 'hear' the message and from the crowd a women walks thru carrying her sick child, her only child; all the teacher can do is tell them the truth; "he needs his appendix taken out" (if that be the ailement) because the idea of magically fixing the ailment is false.

 

i.e..... so much over the world has created an image of magic and the magical capabilities of what many consider the messiah but the guru, the teacher, the kalki, Krishna or Jesus; what they and any of the contributers gave is/was simply knowledge.

 

Thank the guru and appreciate the contributions but it is the collective of all that have given for even the first words to be understood.

 

it is not ONE that deserves mention as supreme; as all that is, is Him!

 

So worship the truth that came from HIM; from all time, from all things, from the four colors of mankind; worship the experience of existence itself.

 

Know God as all that is and be responsible in every step; that is worshiping God; being aware. Which comes purely from knowledge.